Sorbet Leopard - Your Power Mac Unleashed

[Hughmac]

Hi, it's the same in Leopard on a Pismo, unfortunately.

I'll try and remember what I did to rectify it, but it may take a while as I am dealing with a bereavement.

I may have documented it on here though

Cheers

Hugh

 

[aurora72]

@ww2_1943 I'd recommend installing both 10.5.8 and 10.5.9 onto the same HDD. Here is my Open Firmware multiple boot screen. I've installed Leopard just to be able to check various software until I get all working on 10.5.9

 

[TheShortTimer]

Action Retro has reviewed Sorbet Leopard!

You're famous @z970.

 

[bunnspecial]

Well, I've done it. Sorbet Leopard on (nearly) the absolute minimum requirements. Firmware ended up being my issue after all, and now I'm up to 4.2.8. It's worse than Tiger on the bare minimum and is essentially a slideshow, but it's also amazing to see something like the front page of YouTube on this computer from April 2000. I have a dual 450 Gigabit Ethernet, 2GB RAM, and a Radeon 9800 Pro coming in the mail, so that will be my actual Sorbet tower; this is just to mess around.

I think @LightBulbFun might have a word about bare minimum Leopard requirements

I seem to recall that it will boot on 93mb RAM(not 92mb) but he can confirm that.

 

[swamprock]

Action Retro has reviewed Sorbet Leopard!

You're famous @z970.

Did you run the maintenance script, @ActionRetro ? You didn't cover this in the video. Your numbers may come out even better. You can also theme Tiger with a little more work, which I mention since you like LeopardRebirth so much.

 

[Hughmac]

I am having DVD playback issues with Sorbet on my Pismo. I can play DVDs on 9.2 and 10.4. Whenever I try to use the DVD player I get an error message that says “There was an initialization error.”

The drive is reading files on CDs and DVDs just fine in Sorbet.

Is there a setting I should charge or should I try and reinstall the DVD player?

Hi, it's the same in Leopard on a Pismo, unfortunately.

I'll try and remember what I did to rectify it, but it may take a while as I am dealing with a bereavement.

I may have documented it on here though

Cheers

Hugh

Unfortunately my Pismo for some reason is refusing to mount any DVDs in Leopard, video or data.
I've tested multiple DVDs and two different drives in the bay and rebooted, but no go

Cheers

Hugh

 

[z970]

@TheShortTimer Pretty cool.

To be perfectly honest though, I'm a little bit disappointed that a couple of the facts mentioned are incorrect (in a high-traffic channel, this precedent can be harmful), as well as several prominent things that weren't explored.

I. Sorbet Leopard contains zero assets from the Snow Leopard PowerPC beta (why do people keep saying that?). All compatible components from 10.6 were taken from the final public release circa 2011, 10.6.8 - this is even mentioned several times in the main post.

II. Sorbet Leopard does not come with PPCStore by default. Made by @SourceSunTom, PPCStore is a part of LeopardRebirth and is only added to the system upon installation of the LeopardRebirth / macOS High Sierra theme. I have no idea how it found its way onto his seemingly freshly-installed system.

The brand new app store that will be native to Sorbet Leopard is an unrelated project, and is currently still in the planning stages. Eventually, it will be released to all Sorbet Leopard users as part of a future update.

III. It would have been nice if the bundled 'Welcome to Sorbet Leopard' document were opened and read aloud in order to more conclusively describe what exactly Sorbet does over regular Leopard, reducing the potential for confusion.

IV. When theming the system, you are intended to run the '2. Use macOS High Sierra Theme' script immediately following the installation of LeopardRebirth. The script installs the macOS High Sierra (+ Mojave & Catalina default wallpapers) wallpaper selection over the default 10.6 wallpapers, thereby providing a much more authentic experience than the few tokens that LeopardRebirth comes with (this is demonstrated within the fourth screenshot in the main post). Same case with the Mountain Lion theming scripts; both themes are an installer + script operation, as per the prefixed numbering scheme.

Still, perhaps the script should just be renamed in a future update in order to more effectively get the point across ...

V. Ideally, I also would have liked to see some application performance comparisons besides just Finder and Dock (WebKit, TenFourFox, Activity Monitor, Games, etc.) to further showcase the performance differences between stock 10.5.8 (to my knowledge, 10.5.4 is known to have worse overall performance than 10.5.8, therefore it is an unfair comparison) and 10.5.9, but I understand that it's Action Retro's channel and that he may include whatever content he sees fit. That just would have been my preference.

@ActionRetro All in all however, good work.

 

[Angelgreat]

Hey, does Sorbet Leopard run Classic?

 

[z970]

@Angelgreat Sorbet Leopard does not run Classic. It is a hybrid of Leopard (10.5.8) and Snow Leopard (10.6.8), not Leopard and Tiger.

In the below thread, I explain in detail why this is not possible:

Here's why Classic doesn't work in Leopard

One of my beta testers recently asked me if there was a way to incorporate the Classic environment into Sorbet Leopard. Given that most information on this subject available online is vague and unhelpful, I did some hands-on experimentation (being very familiar with the underpinnings of older OS...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[Angelgreat]

@Angelgreat Sorbet Leopard does not run Classic. It is a hybrid of Leopard (10.5.8) and Snow Leopard (10.6.8), not Leopard and Tiger.

In the below thread, I explain in detail why this is not possible:

Here's why Classic doesn't work in Leopard

One of my beta testers recently asked me if there was a way to incorporate the Classic environment into Sorbet Leopard. Given that most information on this subject available online is vague and unhelpful, I did some hands-on experimentation (being very familiar with the underpinnings of older OS...

forums.macrumors.com

Oh, ok. I also see that it has the themes from Mountain Lion and High Sierra, what about adding the other themes from post PPC OSX like those from 10.6 Snow Leopard to the newest version of macOS which is Monterey?

 

[LightBulbFun]

I am having DVD playback issues with Sorbet on my Pismo. I can play DVDs on 9.2 and 10.4. Whenever I try to use the DVD player I get an error message that says “There was an initialization error.”

The drive is reading files on CDs and DVDs just fine in Sorbet.

Is there a setting I should charge or should I try and reinstall the DVD player?

the DVD player uses the GPU to do the decoding of the video, no Leopard capable Mac ever officially shipped with a Rage 128 GPU so there are no drivers for it hence that error

but theres a patch that might help https://parrotgeek.com/npf/10.5_rage.html

I think @LightBulbFun might have a word about bare minimum Leopard requirements

I seem to recall that it will boot on 93mb RAM(not 92mb) but he can confirm that.

indeed (I think it was 91MB or 92MB) you have not lived until you have run Leopard on a G3 beige where you have under-clocked the G4 to 133Mhz for giggles

saying that now that I have a 9600 I should be able to clock even Lower then that now

(im not sure how low I can clock the bus on the 9600 but with 40Mhz clock and a 2x Multiplier I should be able to do 80Mhz)

 

[ActionRetro]

Did you run the maintenance script, @ActionRetro ? You didn't cover this in the video. Your numbers may come out even better. You can also theme Tiger with a little more work, which I mention since you like LeopardRebirth so much.

Ah, I did not. I'll run that and see how it goes!

 

[ww2_1943]

Unfortunately my Pismo for some reason is refusing to mount any DVDs in Leopard, video or data.
I've tested multiple DVDs and two different drives in the bay and rebooted, but no go

Cheers

Hugh

Hugh,

Thanks for checking into this!

 

[bunnspecial]

indeed (I think it was 91MB or 92MB) you have not lived until you have run Leopard on a G3 beige where you have under-clocked the G4 to 133Mhz for giggles

I remember it being an oddball number. I started to say 93mb but not 92mb, but you'd remember far better than me.

If I ever pull a Yikes! out of storage I could pull it a fair bit, or I could do it with my AIO. Actually, scratch that, as the Sonnet in my AIO I don't think can have its multiplier externally adjusted.

It's a shame I've had such bad luck with cheap and plentiiful Yikes! CPUs in beiges, and IIRC the only G4s I actually(aside from my 8600) are the AIO and the Beast, both of which are Sonnets which, again, you can't adjust the clock speed on at least easily.

I do have a couple budget upgraded B&Ws around, including my first one I built myself, and those do need manual jumpers. I guess I could drop one in a beige also, like the desktop in my garage now I've never even powered on.

BTW, can you refresh me on what can happen if you underclock the bus on a B&W, and can it go lower than 66mhz? I seem to recall that the 800mhz and 1ghz Sonnets require dropping the bus if you put them in one.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I remember it being an oddball number. I started to say 93mb but not 92mb, but you'd remember far better than me.

indeed it was, I think in the end I was able to slim it down to about 90.5MB or such

the main limiting factor was BootX's OS X's Boot loader needing enough RAM to operate

older versions of BootX can work down to about 32MB of RAM, something I have been meaning to experiment with regards to shoehorning 10.2.8 onto one of my PowerBook 3400's (both of which only have a total of 32MB of RAM, if anyone does have a 128MB RAM upgrade for one do let me know!)

I do have a couple budget upgraded B&Ws around, including my first one I built myself, and those do need manual jumpers. I guess I could drop one in a beige also, like the desktop in my garage now I've never even powered on.

I have found some of those can be touch and go in a G3 beige still, unless your willing to do the DIMM shuffle id stick with a Sonnet ZIF

although I do wish they did given an option for manual multiplier control, in my G3 Beige where I upgraded the CPU Bus and Memory controller with that of one from a G3 BW and then cranked the bus to 83Mhz, the Sonnet 500Mhz G4 ZIF detects a bus clock higher then 66.8Mhz so it defaults to 5x multiplier mode for the G3 BW's 100Mhz bus but at 83Mhz this gives me only 416Mhz

BTW, can you refresh me on what can happen if you underclock the bus on a B&W, and can it go lower than 66mhz? I seem to recall that the 800mhz and 1ghz Sonnets require dropping the bus if you put them in one.

I have never seen a ready made jumper chart for going bellow 66Mhz on a G3 beige or G3 BW/Yikes but im sure with the right configuration you can clock lower then that

if you set the core/Sys clock ratio to 1:1 you will be running the 60x Processor bus at the same speed as the PCI bus so effectively a bus speed of 33Mhz

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/MPC106EC.pdf

you could then do a multiplier of 2x for grand CPU speed of 66Mhz assuming a G4 will even clock down that low

 

[ww2_1943]

the DVD player uses the GPU to do the decoding of the video, no Leopard capable Mac ever officially shipped with a Rage 128 GPU so there are no drivers for it hence that error

but theres a patch that might help https://parrotgeek.com/npf/10.5_rage.html



indeed (I think it was 91MB or 92MB) you have not lived until you have run Leopard on a G3 beige where you have under-clocked the G4 to 133Mhz for giggles

saying that now that I have a 9600 I should be able to clock even Lower then that now

(im not sure how low I can clock the bus on the 9600 but with 40Mhz clock and a 2x Multiplier I should be able to do 80Mhz)

I'll give it a try and report back!

 

[lepidotós]

I think @LightBulbFun might have a word about bare minimum Leopard requirements

I seem to recall that it will boot on 93mb RAM(not 92mb) but he can confirm that.

I went off the official SL minimum, but I'll give bootimg off my 128MB stick a shot just for fun.
Update: it boots on 384, 256, and 128MB RAM, and completed an Xbench benchmark on all three. I don't have any way to test 96MB, but I can believe it would boot.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Why doesn't the itunes store work ? I did a fresh install of Sorbet Leopard and itunes does not seem to work. Will this be fixed ?

 

[ww2_1943]

the DVD player uses the GPU to do the decoding of the video, no Leopard capable Mac ever officially shipped with a Rage 128 GPU so there are no drivers for it hence that error

but theres a patch that might help https://parrotgeek.com/npf/10.5_rage.html



indeed (I think it was 91MB or 92MB) you have not lived until you have run Leopard on a G3 beige where you have under-clocked the G4 to 133Mhz for giggles

saying that now that I have a 9600 I should be able to clock even Lower then that now

(im not sure how low I can clock the bus on the 9600 but with 40Mhz clock and a 2x Multiplier I should be able to do 80Mhz)

The patch worked! I now have DVD playback.

 

[z970]

@Angelgreat The default system theme already adheres to as closely to Snow Leopard as possible, evidenced by the default user pictures, desktop pictures, Finder desktop icon, and the System Preferences Desktop & Screen Saver preference pane icon all being replaced with the versions from 10.6. Otherwise, the user can also imitate the overall themes of virtually every succeeding version of OS X up to 11.0 using the included Mountain Lion and High Sierra theme bases.

@LightBulbFun I really wish someone told me about that patch before Revision 1.4 was released. It will somehow need to be slip-streamed into the next update.

@Macbookprodude Apparently, the iTunes 10 Store no longer works anywhere - at least not even in regular Leopard. This is not a Sorbet-exclusive issue.

Currently, there are no plans to release a fix.

 

[Macbookprodude]

@Angelgreat The default system theme already adheres to as closely to Snow Leopard as possible, evidenced by the default user pictures, desktop pictures, Finder desktop icon, and the System Preferences Desktop & Screen Saver preference pane icon all being replaced with the versions from 10.6. Otherwise, the user can also imitate the overall themes of virtually every succeeding version of OS X up to 11.0 using the included Mountain Lion and High Sierra theme bases.

@LightBulbFun I really wish someone told me about that patch before Revision 1.4 was released. It will somehow need to be slip-streamed into the next update.

@Macbookprodude Apparently, the iTunes 10 Store no longer works anywhere - at least not even in regular Leopard. This is not a Sorbet-exclusive issue.

Currently, there are no plans to release a fix.

Ironic, because under regular Leopard on my Titanium, I am currently listening to christmas music under radio.. so, it could be issue in the os maybe ? I also can access itunes store in Leopard as well. Wow, it was working before. When was itunes 10 pulled ? I remember last month I access itunes store ?

 

[Macbookprodude]

On 2nd thought, is there a way to fix this ?

 

[z970]

@Macbookprodude As detailed in this chain of posts, the iTunes Store was confirmed inaccessible on all Leopard-based systems as of November 21. However, I am unsure if this is still the case today.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Bummer.. I haven't been on my systems due severe depression over job loss. I started a new job and now I am just learning this. Like Leopard webkit, there has to be a way to get itunes working again.. because I do remember before November 21st it was working fine.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Now this is interesting.

This guy on reddit, running vanilla 10.5.8, recently reported an inability for iTunes 10.6.3 to connect to the iTunes Store. For reference, I just checked another 10.5.8 (w/ iTunes 10.6.3) install on my end, and sure enough, I was unable to do so as well. I ensured beforehand that it had a connection to the Internet, as well as the correct date and time.

View attachment 1915362

Can anyone else on regular Leopard confirm if they are still able to connect to the iTunes Store? Maybe Apple finally pulled the plug with a recent TLS upgrade?

They have no right to do this.. I think its disgusting and unprofessional for them to hurt others like this who use itunes on older machines.. Jobs would never have done that, but Commissar Cook would which is why I have such hate towards him.