ssd swap - high usage of Terabytes Written

[NoPlansForThis]

Then look in to your choice of applications as my M1 MBP doesn't do this. What I said in context was that if the system is generating revenue they are cheap and easy to replace compared to certified professional hardware, which can exceed $10K for a portable.

Likely the choice of teleconferencing SW is the culprit. Thing with computers is they just do as instructed, however they don't think. If your locked into that app, little you can do short of reverting to an Intel based Mac or speak with the SW provider. As stated by myself and others this us not a universal problem as has been illustrated over and over.

Q-6

Zoom, Google Meet (in Chrome and Safari), Microsoft Teams and FaceTime. All of them cause the same issue.

I would love to hear how teleconferencing is some kind of extreme use or outside of what a normal consumer should expect of a machine. Or how should I just “revert” to an intel Mac, as if coming up with the money for two macs in 6 months was something comfortable for everyone, let alone having the nerve to sell to someone (who will probably be a close friend) a machine so full of issues that will likely die on them in a few months.

Meanwhile, Apple also boarded the “this is not an issue” wagon, said this SSD use is completely normal and has spent the last several days trying to reinstall my OS (without success, but don’t worry - everything is normal)

This is awesome. It is not an issue, but if it is, it can only be your own fault for *checks notes* surfing the internet with more than 5 tabs and using videoconference in your 1000USD machine .

 

[Queen6]

Zoom, Google Meet (in Chrome and Safari), Microsoft Teams and FaceTime. All of them cause the same issue.

I would love to hear how teleconferencing is some kind of extreme use or outside of what a normal consumer should expect of a machine. Or how should I just “revert” to an intel Mac, as if coming up with the money for two macs in 6 months was something comfortable for everyone, let alone having the nerve to sell to someone (who will probably be a close friend) a machine so ****ed up that will likely die on them in a few months.

Meanwhile, Apple also boarded the “this is not an issue” wagon, said this SSD use is completely normal and has spent the last several days trying to reinstall my OS (without success, but don’t worry - everything is normal)

This is awesome. It is not an issue, but if it is, it can only be your own fault for *checks notes* surfing the internet with more than 5 tabs and using videoconference in your 1000USD machine .

Gonna be straight it's a new platform so issue should be expected. Chrome is definitely a culprit of excessive memory use, caching to the drive and should be avoided on M1. Bottom line is you have to do some homework when dealing with a new OS/Platform.

Said to many if you want a no risks Mac opt for Intel as they are tried and proven. Apple Silicon is in it's infancy and will remain to be so for some years to come. If you want help you need to post the details of the HW & SW as random screenshots mean little. Some members have already posted that some video streaming SW will cache to the M1's drive, while some does not it could be the same with video conferencing SW. I've read that for some running Onyx resolved their issues, equally you need to know what the application and it's options do. I've ran it on my own M1 MPB to clean it up with no ill effect (pre 11.4).

What I'm saying is the issue is not universal and that's all...

Q-6

 

[giv-as-a-ciggy-kent]

Gonna be straight it's a new platform so issue should be expected.

What I'm saying is the issue is not universal and that's all...

not helpful, you’re just obliterating the signal to noise ratio in this thread. By all means keep posting irrelevant platitudes, people who are experiencing this issue sure do appreciate the (false) encouragement and negation of their experience.

so 11.4 wasn’t the silver bullet we were hoping for. Usage in my case is fairly minimal, always with private browsing I wonder if that’s a contributor.

 

[Silvestru Hosszu]

What I don't understand is why this thread wasn't moved to the forums OS section.
As I and many others pointed out, this is not a M1 issue but BigSur.
To those who did not read the 100+ pages, I have BigSur on my M1 MBP and also on the Intel MBP 16.
The writes on the intel Mac are much worse than on the M1.

 

[vs40]

11.4

I performed the update exactly a day after it came out. Absolutely no difference.

I would try to make clean OS installation.

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system.

support.apple.com

No updates, no restoring from Time Machine, just to eliminate any possible errors during those processes.

 

[altaic]

Would you be sanguine if it was your new M1 MacBook Pro that was showing signs of limited lifespan? I doubt it. It is easy to say to someone, you bought the wrong computer but that isn't helpful. There is no reason that normal use of a computer with a soldered in SSD should die after 4 or so years. It doesn't matter what you are doing unless the task is literally writing TBs of data to a drive, but the OS shouldn't be writing a TB a day.

There are dozens of people on this thread who have reported this issue. There are probably many more who don't know that their SSD's lives are being shortened. Why do you find this acceptable just because it doesn't affect you? It doesn't affect me either but I still want to see it fixed.

Again, what massively extraordinary use case are you talking about. The users in this thread with this issue are not doing anything out of the ordinary. I've followed this thread since it started and I haven't seen any cases where the users are doing something unusual. Apple has clearly fixed some of the issues but others are still outstanding as the latest post @Thistle41 shows.

Thumbs up for the great use of sanguine.

 

[altaic]

Zoom, Google Meet (in Chrome and Safari), Microsoft Teams and FaceTime. All of them cause the same issue.

I would love to hear how teleconferencing is some kind of extreme use or outside of what a normal consumer should expect of a machine.

Poorly engineered software. It was close to getting there pre-pandemic, then it was all rushed because of work from home. Guess what developers sacrifice first when in a pinch? Engineering. It doesn’t take much to take a really well performing bit of software and turn it into garbage that will bring a supercomputer to a halt (pun intended).

Silver lining is that there are a bunch of useable videoconferencing suites available now that would have taken 5 years to properly come to market (assuming the non-pandemic tepid demand trend continued). Unfortunately that means that you and your IT people have to sift through the various WFH solutions to figure out something that doesn’t suck.

Hey, remember Macromedia Flash? 😬

 

[Maximara]

There are nearly 3000 posts of context if you need more. The values are not meaningless. Your experience isn’t everyone’s experience.

Most of which have we don't know exact usage & software installed issues which as pointed makes the numbers useless. And for the few we do have that type of information the problem seem to doing things the M1 used was never designed for (that bank using one as a postgres server of all things), running software known to eat RAM like candy to the point it had become a meme also known as Chrome or anything written in older versions of Electron, trying to run way too many programs for the RAM available, and a host of other explinations.

 

[pshufd]

Zoom, Google Meet (in Chrome and Safari), Microsoft Teams and FaceTime. All of them cause the same issue.

I would love to hear how teleconferencing is some kind of extreme use or outside of what a normal consumer should expect of a machine. Or how should I just “revert” to an intel Mac, as if coming up with the money for two macs in 6 months was something comfortable for everyone, let alone having the nerve to sell to someone (who will probably be a close friend) a machine so ****ed up that will likely die on them in a few months.

Meanwhile, Apple also boarded the “this is not an issue” wagon, said this SSD use is completely normal and has spent the last several days trying to reinstall my OS (without success, but don’t worry - everything is normal)

This is awesome. It is not an issue, but if it is, it can only be your own fault for *checks notes* surfing the internet with more than 5 tabs and using videoconference in your 1000USD machine .

Videoconferencing is a resource hog. We had 13 inch 2015 MacBook Pros and a lot of coworkers complained about fan noise while running Zoom conferences. I used my personal MacBook Pro 15 which has twice the cores and more space for cooling. A lot of people upgraded their systems during the pandemic because their previous hardware wasn't enough to comfortably run Zoom. Many people also switched to mobile devices but there are many cases where it's better to run it on a PC.

The M1 systems will run Zoom with ease though. The SSD write issue may just be a side-effect.

I have a new M1 mini with 16 GB of RAM and I just use it for office stuff. I haven't checked the SSD write issue. If it is an issue, then I can attach an external drive if it dies. I have run macOS off an external USB-3 boot disk for long periods of time. I've even run macOS off an external USB-A drive in the past. It's quite inconvenient on laptops though.

I suspect that RAM is the issue for people with excessive writes and we should be getting 32 GB and 64 GB systems within the next three quarters. I have not heard of this issue on the MacBook Pro 16 models (though they have thermal issues) and the availability of more RAM may be the reason. I have a Windows desktop with 128 GB of RAM and it NEVER swaps. It has an 8-core, 16 thread 10700 and cost $2,500 but the performance and responsiveness is similar to the M1 mini which cost $1,099.

If I were troubleshooting the problem, then I would remove applications one-by-one until the culprit was found.

 

[pshufd]

Most of which have we don't know exact usage & software installed issues which as pointed makes the numbers useless. And for the few we do have that type of information the problem seem to doing things the M1 used was never designed for (that bank using one as a postgres server of all things), running software known to eat RAM like candy to the point it had become a meme also known as Chrome or anything written in older versions of Electron, trying to run way too many programs for the RAM available, and a host of other explinations.

That bank would have been fine if they booted off a cheap $200 2 TB SSD. They could just replace the SSD when it wore out. I imagine that they saved a ton of money on that system and that the cost of the system was a throwaway anyways.

I have used consumer hardware in a professional development setting before. I had to buy some additional hardware because of the lack of drivers for some consumer parts but it got the job done.

 

[pshufd]

I installed SmartMonTools and ran it. I have a 16/512 Mac mini and have been using the system since July 1. 429 GB Read and 349 GB written for 11 GB/day written per day. Looks like my writes will run around 1 TB/month. I run Firefox with normally ten tabs, Calendar, Numbers, Notes, Reminders, Terminal, Growly Notes, emacs, Mail, Music, TV, Podcasts, VLC. The system is running all the time and hooked up to a Time Machine backup all the time. I would be what's considered a normal office user.

I run my heavy-duty programs on a Windows desktop and it does not SWAP at all. My M1 mini has always had under 100 mb SWAP. If I reboot the system daily, then the mini has no SWAP. Future writes will probably be lower than this period of time as I had to load up my music and photo libraries which is a one-time hit for writes.

I watched a few videos on this problem and this one was interesting:

This video is several months old and may have already been posted but here are the findings

1. 8 GB systems typically see double the writes of 16 GB systems
2. Google Chrome users report higher data writes
3. Streaming video can do a lot of writes due to buffering
4. Unoptimized Apps may do more writes
5. Choosing the Intel binary instead of the Apple Silicon binary

So my anecdotal data point is that I don't see this problem at all. But I was careful in sizing and in how I run programs to minimize or eliminate SWAP. This is my standard practice on all of my systems. If this mini did do excessive swapping, then I'd move programs to my Windows desktop or just add another Mac to the desktop and run some programs on that system. I have done this in the past with much slower systems but the mini seems like it can run all of my office stuff just fine. I do look forward to a 32 GB M1X mini when we can then put this matter to rest.

 

[staypuftforums]

Zoom, Google Meet (in Chrome and Safari), Microsoft Teams and FaceTime. All of them cause the same issue.

I would love to hear how teleconferencing is some kind of extreme use or outside of what a normal consumer should expect of a machine. Or how should I just “revert” to an intel Mac, as if coming up with the money for two macs in 6 months was something comfortable for everyone, let alone having the nerve to sell to someone (who will probably be a close friend) a machine so ****ed up that will likely die on them in a few months.

Meanwhile, Apple also boarded the “this is not an issue” wagon, said this SSD use is completely normal and has spent the last several days trying to reinstall my OS (without success, but don’t worry - everything is normal)

This is awesome. It is not an issue, but if it is, it can only be your own fault for *checks notes* surfing the internet with more than 5 tabs and using videoconference in your 1000USD machine .

The irony is that the people who try the hardest to defend Apple make the company look terrible while doing so, by describing the products as complete junk.

You can buy a used Dell Optiplex with a 4th Gen i5 for $100 that will absolutely fly through the tasks that are apparently bringing the M1 to its knees.

 

[NoPlansForThis]

I would try to make clean OS installation.

Create a bootable installer for macOS - Apple Support

You can use a USB flash drive or other secondary volume as a startup disk from which to install the Mac operating system.

support.apple.com

No updates, no restoring from Time Machine, just to eliminate any possible errors during those processes.

Thanks for the tip. We tried that last week with Apple Support via phone. The machine is now a brick, failing earlier and earlier on the instalation process each time.

I believe the SSD was somehow damaged enough on the past few weeks that it is now unusable. I've left it on the Genius Bar. They promissed to call me yesterday before closing, but I got radio silence so far.

Poorly engineered software. It was close to getting there pre-pandemic, then it was all rushed because of work from home. Guess what developers sacrifice first when in a pinch? Engineering. It doesn’t take much to take a really well performing bit of software and turn it into garbage that will bring a supercomputer to a halt (pun intended).

Silver lining is that there are a bunch of useable videoconferencing suites available now that would have taken 5 years to properly come to market (assuming the non-pandemic tepid demand trend continued). Unfortunately that means that you and your IT people have to sift through the various WFH solutions to figure out something that doesn’t suck.

Hey, remember Macromedia Flash? 😬

One of the apps is Facetime itself. Others (like Google Meet) are just running on Safari or Chrome, depending on the day. Apple markets this machine as being a powerhorse capable of doing everything from daily office use to machine learning. How is it acceptable that they become bricks by opening too many tabs while teleconferencing with Joe from accounting?

If this mini did do excessive swapping, then I'd move programs to my Windows desktop or just add another Mac to the desktop and run some programs on that system.

This is a 1000 USD machine. Does the average user know about swaping? How come the solution to this problem comes to agressively monitoring every stat and having multiple machines instead of Apple acknowledging the issue and making a recall of SSDs, retiring Big Sur, etc?

The irony is that the people who try the hardest to defend Apple make the company look terrible while doing so, by describing the products as complete junk.

This, a thousand times this...

This is shameful and needs to be addressed by Apple ASAP, specially for unrepairable machines such as the M1s.

"Oooooh, but phones also have soldered unrepairable stuff" - phones rely heavily on the cloud and most people dont use them as critical for work. If you cant call someone for a few days, you can e-mail them. You probably cant perform your day-to-day work from your phone screen.

 

[jdb8167]

I believe the SSD was somehow damaged enough on the past few weeks that it is now unusable. I've left it on the Genius Bar. They promissed to call me yesterday before closing, but I got radio silence so far.

That’s unlikely. While your writes are high for your usage, nothing with what you reported will kill the SSD this soon. You are only at about 6% 8% used.

Much more likely that you hit one of the recovery mode bugs for re-installing Big Sur. Those are solvable even if they are a bit of a pain. Apple will sort that out I’m sure.

 

[jdb8167]

Looks like my writes will run around 1 TB/month.

About the same as me. I’ve had my M1 MacBook Air since November and just passed 10 TBW. That doesn’t matter to those owners who are seeing a problem. I’m sure it helps that I also have 16 GB RAM.

 

[pshufd]

The irony is that the people who try the hardest to defend Apple make the company look terrible while doing so, by describing the products as complete junk.

You can buy a used Dell Optiplex with a 4th Gen i5 for $100 that will absolutely fly through the tasks that are apparently bringing the M1 to its knees.

The complaint here is high SSD writes. The i5-4570 has Geekbench 5 scores of 840/2,724 at 85 watts the M1 1,700/7,500 so your Optiplex isn't going to be as good an experience.

 

[Queen6]

So my anecdotal data point is that I don't see this problem at all. But I was careful in sizing and in how I run programs to minimize or eliminate SWAP. This is my standard practice on all of my systems. If this mini did do excessive swapping, then I'd move programs to my Windows desktop or just add another Mac to the desktop and run some programs on that system. I have done this in the past with much slower systems but the mini seems like it can run all of my office stuff just fine. I do look forward to a 32 GB M1X mini when we can then put this matter to rest.

I remember all the troubleshooting across the forums over the years with the 15" MBP's overheating/throttling & noise. Similar people needed to disclose detailed HW, SW and usage or offering advice was difficult in the extreme without such information.

The excessive writes to some members SSD's is more complex again as it's unlikely to be related to the design of the hardware. The issue is clearly related to software and the usage of the systems hence the wide variance of data being written to the SSD. I've looked at my M1 MBP's usage via Activity Monitor & Terminal, as far as I can ascertain data written to the SSD is nominal; no spikes or excessive writes just what I would expect from a base 13" MBP with 8GB RAM.

I could compare directly with another older 8GB Intel Mac that is also on 11.4, TBH it seems a waste of time as any variance is likely to be irrelevant given neither are shredding the SSD. I use my systems profeshially as a rule, although the pandemic is doing it's level best to shutter work. I only install what I know works without issue, I avoid problematic SW frequently opting for Open Source if possible. In the case of M1 simply had to go back to the drawing board and research what may or may not present issue, an ongoing exercise...

Overall I find the M1 MBP to be very capable, as said it's not going to replace the 17" W10 notebooks, potentially nor will the upcoming Apple Silicon 16" MBP. After looking into the capabilities of the M1 MBP I reset the computer and set it up as I would any other 13" ultraportable with no complaints in operation. I don't care for the lack of ports and variation, Touchbar brings both positives & negatives. Overall it's the experience, very fluid with the M1 just getting on with the task at hand with impressive computational performance in a 13" format. If I don't need or use SW I don't install it and if only Intel, I'll wait or replace unless is a critical application.

Memory management in both macOS & Windows has significantly matured, yet even this W10 notebook with 32GB pages data (Swap) to the SSD as that's how the applications are written, same occurs in macOS likely more with Intel binaries.

All this reminds of a conversation with a far wiser man; he would only purchase a new Mac at the end of Apple's design cycle, he would generally run OSX a generation or two behind the latest release. When I said but your missing out, he simply said "I get a new Mac with tried & proven hardware and a solid OS evetime and leave the Beta testing to the rest" difficult to argue with that

Potentially a point in fact, I bought very late in the cycle one of the ill fated Mid 2011 15" MBP's with the auto destruct Radeon dGPU. It's been used as; a portable workstation, passed around the family, a gaming platform, abandoned in a box for 2 years, never clean installed. Cleaned up the OS. Starting to think it may outlive me LOL...

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Thanks for the tip. We tried that last week with Apple Support via phone. The machine is now a brick, failing earlier and earlier on the instalation process each time.

I believe the SSD was somehow damaged enough on the past few weeks that it is now unusable. I've left it on the Genius Bar. They promissed to call me yesterday before closing, but I got radio silence so far.

One of the apps is Facetime itself. Others (like Google Meet) are just running on Safari or Chrome, depending on the day. Apple markets this machine as being a powerhorse capable of doing everything from daily office use to machine learning. How is it acceptable that they become bricks by opening too many tabs while teleconferencing with Joe from accounting?

This is a 1000 USD machine. Does the average user know about swaping? How come the solution to this problem comes to agressively monitoring every stat and having multiple machines instead of Apple acknowledging the issue and making a recall of SSDs, retiring Big Sur, etc?

This, a thousand times this...

This is shameful and needs to be addressed by Apple ASAP, specially for unrepairable machines such as the M1s.

"Oooooh, but phones also have soldered unrepairable stuff" - phones rely heavily on the cloud and most people dont use them as critical for work. If you cant call someone for a few days, you can e-mail them. You probably cant perform your day-to-day work from your phone screen.

All of the M1s are still under warranty so I'm sure that Apple will resolve the problem or give you a new or refurbished model.

The M1 models are base machines. You can look at where Apple placed their M1 systems relative to the Intel systems, especially with regard to price, and you can see that they are entry-level systems.

The average user will use M1 systems as appliances. I have been doing tuning and configuring since the 1970s working with systems with as little as hundreds of words of memory. So I have always tuned systems for sufficient RAM and storage for what I plan to do with it and I generally tune for 0 swapping. But it won't matter for the typical user. The typical user will see the system running just fine for performance. SSD longevity may or may not be an issue down the road.

My approach for work is to have a backup system. Computers fail. They break. You drop them. They get stolen. I'm not going to be twiddling my thumbs when a work system is down because of a bulging battery. That's been my standard work practice. I know that the vast majority of people don't think like that. Nor do they do backup. Or have a backup ISP. And that results in lost productivity.

The M1 is a gen 1 product as well and longtime Apple users will know that there are often growing pains with gen 1 Apple products.

 

[pshufd]

I remember all the troubleshooting across the forums over the years with the 15" MBP's overheating/throttling & noise. Similar people needed to disclose detailed HW, SW and usage or offering advice was difficult in the extreme without such information.

The excessive writes to some members SSD's is more complex again as it's unlikely to be related to the design of the hardware. The issue is clearly related to software and the usage of the systems hence the wide variance of data being written to the SSD. I've looked at my M1 MBP's usage via Activity Monitor & Terminal, as far as I can ascertain data written to the SSD is nominal; no spikes or excessive writes just what I would expect from a base 13" MBP with 8GB RAM.

I could compare directly with another older 8GB Intel Mac that is also on 11.4, TBH it seems a waste of time as any variance is likely to be irrelevant given neither are shredding the SSD. I use my systems profeshially as a rule, although the pandemic is doing it's level best to shutter work. I only install what I know works without issue, I avoid problematic SW frequently opting for Open Source if possible. In the case of M1 simply had to go back to the drawing board and research what may or may not present issue, an ongoing exercise...

Overall I find the M1 MBP to be very capable, as said it's not going to replace the 17" W10 notebooks, potentially nor will the upcoming Apple Silicon 16" MBP. After looking into the capabilities of the M1 MBP I reset the computer and set it up as I would any other 13" ultraportable with no complaints in operation. I don't care for the lack of ports and variation, Touchbar brings both positives & negatives. Overall it's the experience, very fluid with the M1 just getting on with the task at hand with impressive computational performance in a 13" format. If I don't need or use SW I don't install it and if only Intel, I'll wait or replace unless is a critical application.

Memory management in both macOS & Windows has significantly matured, yet even this W10 notebook with 32GB pages data (Swap) to the SSD as that's how the applications are written, same occurs in macOS likely more with Intel binaries.

All this reminds of a conversation with a far wiser man; he would only purchase a new Mac at the end of Apple's design cycle, he would generally run OSX a generation or two behind the latest release. When I said but your missing out, he simply said "I get a new Mac with tried & proven hardware and a solid OS evetime and leave the Beta testing to the rest" difficult to argue with that

Potentially a point in fact, I bought very late in the cycle one of the ill fated Mid 2011 15" MBP's with the auto destruct Radeon dGPU. It's been used as; a portable workstation, passed around the family, a gaming platform, abandoned in a box for 2 years, never clean installed. Cleaned up the OS. Starting to think it may outlive me LOL...

Q-6

Overheating with the 15s was fairly widespread and I think that even the 2019 16 overheating is a meme. They run warm doing nothing is what I have heard about them. The question is always how many users see the problem and how much would it cost to fix? That was a question for the butterfly keyboards. Our IT manager at the office told me that he had had zero butterfly keyboard failures for a thousand machines. But it was common over here. Apple eventually dumped it and I think that was the right move. It seemed like they spent a huge number of engineering hours on the problems and I don't even know if they ever figured out what the real problem was.

That video I linked earlier had an online survey asking people for their statistics. There is a second part to it which I haven't found yet. But I agree that this seems far more likely to be a software problem than a hardware problem. If it were in the operating system, then I would expect far more people to run into it with Apple seeing more system failures (from people using their M1 systems essentially as 24-hour production servers). It's possible that it's some combination of OS and application software and it would just take some very good diagnostic analysis to determine the types of things that cause this problem.

 

[Queen6]

The M1 is a gen 1 product as well and longtime Apple users will know that there are often growing pains with gen 1 Apple products.

Never a truer word. I think that Apple has done a decent job of launching M1. Acid test for me is that the M1 MBP is the first Mac I've purchased for my own needs since 2015, as the 2016 MBP redesign was a joke for a professional on the go...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Overheating with the 15s was fairly widespread and I think that even the 2019 16 overheating is a meme. They run warm doing nothing is what I have heard about them. The question is always how many users see the problem and how much would it cost to fix? That was a question for the butterfly keyboards. Our IT manager at the office told me that he had had zero butterfly keyboard failures for a thousand machines. But it was common over here. Apple eventually dumped it and I think that was the right move. It seemed like they spent a huge number of engineering hours on the problems and I don't even know if they ever figured out what the real problem was.

That video I linked earlier had an online survey asking people for their statistics. There is a second part to it which I haven't found yet. But I agree that this seems far more likely to be a software problem than a hardware problem. If it were in the operating system, then I would expect far more people to run into it with Apple seeing more system failures (from people using their M1 systems essentially as 24-hour production servers). It's possible that it's some combination of OS and application software and it would just take some very good diagnostic analysis to determine the types of things that cause this problem.

Tried the Intel i9 16" MBP just a joke, with the W10 hex core's easily outperforming. Apple get's it right and Apple get's it wrong, shovelling in high power components/high temperature components into an already thermally limited chassis what could possibly go wrong LOL.

I can completely see where Apple is coming from. Apple wants to design as it sees fit, not be limited by another companies self imposed limitations and that Intel is very much guilty of.

Q-6

 

[pshufd]

Tried the Intel i9 16" MBP just a joke, with the W10 hex core's easily outperforming. Apple get's it right and Apple get's it wrong, shovelling in high power components/high temperature components into an already thermally limited chassis what could possibly go wrong LOL.

I can completely see where Apple is coming from. Apple wants to design as it sees fit, not be limited by another companies self imposed limitations and that Intel is very much guilty of.

Q-6

The 11th gen chips are better but you still need a thicker chassis a vapor chamber cooling to cool them. I would like to see an 11th gen Intel in the MBP 16 for those of us that have x86 stuff to run but it's not going to happen.

 

[Queen6]

The 11th gen chips are better but you still need a thicker chassis a vapor chamber cooling to cool them. I would like to see an 11th gen Intel in the MBP 16 for those of us that have x86 stuff to run but it's not going to happen.

Me too, as the exclusion of x86 applications makes the Mac a harder choice in the professional realm. As ever the right tool for the right job...

Q-6

 

[giv-as-a-ciggy-kent]

I believe the SSD was somehow damaged enough on the past few weeks that it is now unusable. I've left it on the Genius Bar. They promissed to call me yesterday before closing, but I got radio silence so far.

Tbh this kind of sounds like a bad Ram chip. I’ve experienced this a couple of times over the years. Same result though since Ram is also soldered. You’re probably getting a new logic board my man.

The complaint here is high SSD writes. The i5-4570 has Geekbench 5 scores of 840/2,724 at 85 watts the M1 1,700/7,500 so your Optiplex isn't going to be as good an experience.

You’re not really understanding the argument. Of course it’s not as good as or even comparable an experience. But the fact that you can get the job done with a 100$ off lease ****** haswell dell should wake people up to the fact that the m1 hype train is out of control. That people are hand waving away the issues is a little disappointing but not unexpected.

The M1 is a gen 1 product as well and longtime Apple users will know that there are often growing pains with gen 1 Apple products.

Sorry mang I gotta call BS on this. It is not reasonable to expect bad ssd longevity due to a cpu architecture change. Some apps won’t work well or at all, some stuff is unoptimized, some more crashes than usual, reasonable assumptions. But how could anyone know the ssd would get hammered and in what way does the architecture being new make this acceptable or something that could be reasonably expected?

It’s like saying the processor architecture changes so it’s normal for the speakers to blow out or the backlight to flicker. Sure the ssd’s case is more closely tied to the new architecture / os port but this kind of thing should have been caught prior to release and for fanboys or shills to just tell users “you’ll probably be fine, you’ll buy a new one in a few years anyway” is kind of ridiculous.

Edit: reading some of the walls of text in the last few pages has been really disappointing. Some posters on here really are just glorified excel macros. Others are monstrous nested conditionals directly in the cell. The worst of all just read like a terrible markov bot. The npc meme is real and it’s posting in this thread. Public education was a mistake.

 

[pshufd]

You’re not really understanding the argument. Of course it’s not as good as or even comparable an experience. But the fact that you can get the job done with a 100$ off lease ****** haswell dell should wake people up to the fact that the m1 hype train is out of control. That people are hand waving away the issues is a little disappointing but not unexpected.

I use a 2009 iMac 27 and performance is fine for what I use it for. It has a 1 TB HDD. But I put in 16 GB of RAM so it never swaps. It takes a while to boot up and load programs but once it's in RAM, it's fine. As long as it doesn't SWAP as SWAP to an HDD is a killer. You can get these for $150. There is even a 2011 i5 with 12 GB of RAM in my area for $200.

I also have a 2008 Dell XPS Studio with i7-920 and 48 GB of RAM. That thing can actually get a lot of work done. The downside of the machine, and the Late 2009 iMac 27 is that both of them generate a lot of heat for everyday use. I generally know the Geekbench 5 scores for a lot of the CPUs as I regularly shop around for old gear.

The M1 is simply a better system. If you want cool, quiet and ridiculous single-core and multi-core performance, then the M1 is it. Sure, you can go with older equipment, and you can put in the work to make a Hackintosh or run VirtualBox, VMware or KVM/QEMU but those can all die if Apple turns off the switch and they require some maintenance.

It is very nice to have a smooth system that I don't have to think about like the M1.

The oldest computer on my desk has about 250 words of memory and it still runs.