ssd swap - high usage of Terabytes Written

[Spudlicious]

I've come to the conclusion that the excessive swapping/disk usage is not "a bug"... it's "a feature".

In other words, it's something that Apple's engineers have intentionally designed to "be there". Simply stated this is how the m-series Macs work. Not by "mistake", but "by design".

HOWEVER... it's not something they want to talk about.
Has Apple addressed this issue directly yet?
In any way?

The amount of "investigation" in this thread, trying this, trying that to reduce the amount of data written, is probably pointless.
Again, because the way we see things working, is "the way they are designed to work".

And once more, I'll offer my solution:
TURN OFF VM disk swapping using terminal,
and
TURN OFF compressed memory using terminal.

See what that does for you over the course of 2-3 days, then report back with the results.

That is the notion I've been expounding, so I am eager to agree. Does it not follow that if your two suggestions do indeed stop the computer working as it was intended to work, then there must be an impact on performance? Performance is very much what the M1 series are about. Perhaps someone, not me, will try them and report.

 

[Spudlicious]

One benefit we have in the U.K., as far as the warranty is concerned, is the Limitations Act, a part of the Consumer Rights Act.

While it can be a pain in the butt sometimes to actually enforce it, the act states that a product must be fit for purpose and last for a reasonable amount of time. That law overrides any company warranty and is effective for a period of 6 years. Though it is your burden to prove the fault existed at the time of purchase.

Essentially then, should the SSD fail within, let’s say 4 years just for the heck of it. You would have little problem in your argument that such a component should reasonably last far longer than 4 years and the generally accepted lifespan of any computer, should be more than 4 years.

So, in warranty or not, you have a chance of repair or replacement under the Limitations Act - if you could be arsed doing it. I’ve done it once, for a very expensive television, which went completely tits up after 3 years. On that occasion I was pretty lucky I think, the manufacturer didn’t argue at all against the CRA, so that was good.

I sense from your post, and from your signature, that you may be the type of person for such a dispute. Manufacturers and retailers can be sure that Joe Average is not such a person. An appliance failing after 4 years is not going to put him on the warpath to legal restitution, if he hasn't fallen for the extended warranty scam he'll just replace it.

 

[jdb8167]

First, the tools that caused all this in the first place were third party and it had beens stated the versions first used had incorrect specs as baselines.

The tools work correctly. I’ve proven this by rewriting the NVMe portion of the smarctl command line tool using only Apple MacOS APIs. The results are identical to smartmontools.

See https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/ssd-swap-high-usage-of-terabytes-written.2284893/post-29749045

 

[TrueBlou]

I sense from your post, and from your signature, that you may be the type of person for such a dispute. Manufacturers and retailers can be sure that Joe Average is not such a person. An appliance failing after 4 years is not going to put him on the warpath to legal restitution, if he hasn't fallen for the extended warranty scam he'll just replace it.

Not really. If I get a relatively good lifespan from a product, then I’ll just recycle and replace. Let’s put it this way, my M1 MacBook Air cost £1250. If that lasted 4 years (assuming I keep it that long), that would be an average cost of £312 p.a.

I actually think that 300 quid (ish) a year, is pretty decent value for something which is performing as well as the MBA.

On the other hand, a £5,000 TV which dies in a little under 3 years, giving a cost of over 1,500 p.a. That I do not consider good value, or even remotely close to an acceptable lifespan for such a product.

As for joe public, you’d probably be surprised just how many people take umbrage to products which don’t last an acceptable amount of time. Which is why the small claims courts (in the U.K.) are as busy as they are.

As for my signature, I hardly see how that has any bearing whatsoever on the subject.

 

[TrueBlou]

May I ask you - how I can make it possible to run a Parallels on external drive?
Since a couple of weeks I learnt more about my computer, especially how everything works then in my entire life, trust me

I should have been more specific I suppose. Parallels itself is installed and running from the MacBook SSD, as normal.

However, the Windows installation can be put anywhere you like. You can choose to place it on an external drive at the point of setup. Or indeed, even after installation, you can actually drag and drop the entire Windows install to and from anywhere you like. Just right-click on the VM in Parallels Control Center, then choose, Show in Finder.

This will open a new Finder Window, with the VM’s container. Just drag that wherever you like. It’s really not fussy, you can even run it if it’s stored in iCloud - not recommend, it works, but very slowly

Running it from an external SSD/NVME takes most of the pressure away from the MacBooks own internal storage. And if it’s a nice fast drive, you barely notice a difference. I’ve seen some of my Windows VM’s on an external Thunderbolt 3 NVME load faster than my actual Windows desktop, which has an SSD as a boot drive.

 

[Ektachrome]

One benefit we have in the U.K., as far as the warranty is concerned, is the Limitations Act, a part of the Consumer Rights Act.

While it can be a pain in the butt sometimes to actually enforce it, the act states that a product must be fit for purpose and last for a reasonable amount of time. That law overrides any company warranty and is effective for a period of 6 years. Though it is your burden to prove the fault existed at the time of purchase.

Essentially then, should the SSD fail within, let’s say 4 years just for the heck of it. You would have little problem in your argument that such a component should reasonably last far longer than 4 years and the generally accepted lifespan of any computer, should be more than 4 years.

So, in warranty or not, you have a chance of repair or replacement under the Limitations Act - if you could be arsed doing it. I’ve done it once, for a very expensive television, which went completely tits up after 3 years. On that occasion I was pretty lucky I think, the manufacturer didn’t argue at all against the CRA, so that was good.

You’re quite right, that is good over here. Wonder whether it’ll remain after Brexit?

To be fair, a couple of years back, I suffered from the anti-glare coating peeling off my 2013 15” MBPr. It was well out of warranty but was a ‘known issue’ to Apple. However, it had happened outside the repair program for those machines.

I looked into third party repair, very expensive. But I happened to be in London on business and decided to try my luck at the Apple store Regent St. The impression I got is because I’d bought it from there, retail, years before and also because they could see it had been really well cared for, they decided they would do it for me free of charge.

Very pleased, of course, but quite right since it shouldN’t have happened. However, I think this should be general policy when there is a known, inherent flaw, no matter how long after warranty it is, abs not just at the discretion of whoever you happen to interact with on the day. This would give much more peace of mind in terms of the current M1 issue, for example.

 

[Ektachrome]

UK's VAT doesn't change the fact the first batch of M1s were entry level machines.

VAT has nothing to do with the comparative price of these models to comparative PC models here, nor the fact that Apple does not market their performance as entry level (in fact, quite the opposite).

 

[dieselm]

VAT has nothing to do with the comparative price of these models to comparative PC models here, nor the fact that Apple does not market their performance as entry level (in fact, quite the opposite).

Air branding is used for the bottom of their laptop line, and the mid-range of the iPad line.
Apple consistenly uses Pro branding for the upper end of the phone, tablet, laptop, and desktop.

They have yet to fill in the upper slots for Macbook Pro, iMac, (i)Mac Pro.

 

[Argon_]

Air branding is used for the bottom of their laptop line, and the mid-range of the iPad line.
Apple consistenly uses Pro branding for the upper end of the phone, tablet, laptop, and desktop.

They have yet to fill in the upper slots for Macbook Pro, iMac, (i)Mac Pro.

Interesting how the Air drifted from a premium ultraportable to their entry level machine over the course of a decade.

 

[dieselm]

Interesting how the Air drifted from a premium ultraportable to their entry level machine over the course of a decade.

Good observation. Air started with a modest premium, for size, when it introduced the ultraportable category. Over time, it slotted into entry position as Macbook phased out.

Air branding was reused for an slim entry iPad. Until it pickedup a premium again for slim size compared to a low-end iPad and a modest price compared to the iPad Pros.

The iPad Air, in transition like Macbook Air, is similar now in performance to iPad Pro. Presumably this fall, Apple will be pushing out the performance of iPad Pro and Macbook Pro to put Air back into its place in the product line.

 

[leons]

Let's get this thread back on topic?

 

[Maximara]

Let's get this thread back on topic?

It is on topic when some of the issues are due to people using entry level machines for pro level work or using them as freaking postgres servers for a bank. When it is not pro work with Apple's own browser doing stupid things then that is an issue. The rest not so much and I would like to know what the percentages the rewritten version of smartmontools (by jdb8167) is producing. Are they as off the wall as the old ones?

 

[pibefision]

Does anyone have information about the best SSD in the market and about the maximum TBW it could support? Maybe this information will help to understand the possible duration of the SSD in M1 machines.

 

[Maximara]

In the UK, e.g., the M1 Macbook Pro 13" costs between £1299 and £2299.

Given they are $1299 and $2299 here in the US it looks like somebody simply replaced the $ with a £ and knocked off for lunch. I would like to point out a fully blinged out MacMini (16 GB RAM, 2 TB internal) is $1,699.00 or £1,699.00 and that is still an entry level machine.

In fact, a few Pro-Apple reviewers have commented unless you are doing insanely demanding work the Macbook Pro 13 is effectively Pro in name only and you are better off going with the Air. The Air is £999.00 and £1,249.00 (and yes the same lazy replace the $ with a £ thing here too). So effectively you are paying 300 more for a fan and...that is about it.

 

[Maximara]

Does anyone have information about the best SSD in the market and about the maximum TBW it could support? Maybe this information will help to understand the possible duration of the SSD in M1 machines.

The thing is TBW increases with drive size. Samsung seems to be the top of the line as SSDs go with their 4TB Samsung 860 PRO clocking in at 4,800 TBW but that is not cheap, going for ~$700 on Amazon.

Some of these seam to take the TBW of their smallest drive and increase it linearly with size. Samsung does this with their 860 series - doubling the size doubles the TBW but not with some of their other models.

 

[DekuBleep]

May I ask what is the latest update on this situation? Is this caused because Apple uses the SSD as extra RAM? Has Apple commented on the issue? Has Apple issued an update that fixed the issue?

I am thinking about whether to buy an M1 MPB 13" with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD (and AppleCare).

 

[leons]

Given they are $1299 and $2299 here in the US it looks like somebody simply replaced the $ with a £ and knocked off for lunch. I would like to point out a fully blinged out MacMini (16 GB RAM, 2 TB internal) is $1,699.00 or £1,699.00 and that is still an entry level machine.

In fact, a few Pro-Apple reviewers have commented unless you are doing insanely demanding work the Macbook Pro 13 is effectively Pro in name only and you are better off going with the Air. The Air is £999.00 and £1,249.00 (and yes the same lazy replace the $ with a £ thing here too). So effectively you are paying 300 more for a fan and...that is about it.F

For the second time, please keep this thread on topic AND in the correct forum. If you wish to debate the history of which MacBooks are entry-level and when they became so (yawn) please start a new tread in the appropriate forum.

 

[leons]

May I ask what is the latest update on this situation? Is this caused because Apple uses the SSD as extra RAM? Has Apple commented on the issue? Has Apple issued an update that fixed the issue?

I am thinking about whether to buy an M1 MPB 13" with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD (and AppleCare).

Apple has not commented on nor provided a fix. A small percentage of users are affected, primarily those who regularly keep 20+ tabs regularly open in their browsers and some who use disk-intensive apps such as lightroom. There are easy go-arounds (in this thread) for the "large number of tabs" issues, not so much for the Lightroom-like apps issue. In any case, if you buy with AppleCare as you suggested, it will likely be a non-issue for you.

 

[DekuBleep]

Apple has not commented on nor provided a fix. A small percentage of users are affected, primarily those who regularly keep 20+ tabs regularly open in their browsers and some who use disk-intensive apps such as lightroom. There are easy go-arounds (in this thread) for the "large number of tabs" issues, not so much for the Lightroom-like apps issue. In any case, if you buy with AppleCare as you suggested, it will likely be a non-issue for you.

Thanks! I also don't use Lightroom. I do sometimes use chrome though...

 

[leons]

Thanks! I also don't use Lightroom. I do sometimes use chrome though...

Unless you are a tab-abuser (like me), it won't be an issue. Even if, you can use the tab-suspender add-on detailed in this thread. Enjoy purchasing and using your wonderful new computer!

 

[Spudlicious]

Interesting how the Air drifted from a premium ultraportable to their entry level machine over the course of a decade.

I would say the lowest-price offering by any maker (of anything) is their entry level. The first MacBook Air was not Apple's entry level, but 2008 was a long time ago and the current Air

May I ask what is the latest update on this situation? Is this caused because Apple uses the SSD as extra RAM? Has Apple commented on the issue? Has Apple issued an update that fixed the issue?

I am thinking about whether to buy an M1 MPB 13" with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD (and AppleCare).

Having followed this thread you'll be an informed buyer! As an M1 Air (8/512) owner I'm entirely happy to recommend the computer, it's a super thing to use.

 

[DekuBleep]

Unless you are a tab-abuser (like me), it won't be an issue. Even if, you can use the tab-suspender add-on detailed in this thread. Enjoy purchasing and using your wonderful new computer!

Thanks! So the SSD write issue is believed to be caused by MacOS using the SSD as RAM when your computer runs out of RAM? It sounds like LIGHTROOM is writing your entire project to the SSD as RAM every time you make a small change, similarly could be that CHROME is writing all the content of every webpage TAB that you have open to the SSD as RAM very frequently with possibly a lot of refreshes.... ugh.

 

[DekuBleep]

Having followed this thread you'll be an informed buyer! As an M1 Air (8/512) owner I'm entirely happy to recommend the computer, it's a super thing to use.

I haven't really followed this thread except for asking a few questions just now. Anyhow the situation sounds like a non-issue for me... Thanks!

 

[Maximara]

Thanks! So the SSD write issue is believed to be caused by MacOS using the SSD as RAM when your computer runs out of RAM? It sounds like LIGHTROOM is writing your entire project to the SSD as RAM every time you make a small change, similarly could be that CHROME is writing all the content of every webpage TAB that you have open to the SSD as RAM very frequently with possibly a lot of refreshes.... ugh.

It various depending on the program. Sometime it is due to the program writing cache file rather than the amount of RAM being used. These cache file are not RAM per say but they still shorten the life of the SSD. As long as they are relatively small they aren't that much an issue but when they are big then they are a problem.

 

[rui no onna]

It various depending on the program. Sometime it is due to the program writing cache file rather than the amount of RAM being used. These cache file are not RAM per say but they still shorten the life of the SSD. As long as they are relatively small they aren't that much an issue but when they are big then they are a problem.

To be honest, I don't think the size is so much an issue as the types of writes. Large sequential write is ideal for SSDs and has pretty much 1x write amplification.

It's rewriting small pieces of data - indexing, access timestamps, etc. that can kill P/E cycles more quickly.