ssd swap - high usage of Terabytes Written

[leons]

Interesting as by the numbers the TBW for that drive works out to 385 (77 x 100 / (100-80) which depending on the size of the drive could be well within reason.

But 1.2PB for the Sandisk he notes is even better! ;-)

 

[rui no onna]

I just installed CrystalDisk on my Windows machine, my C: drive has 77TB of data writen and it says the disk health is at 80%. And after I searched on web for Total Host writes, I came across some very big numbers on Windows machines, like 1.2PB for Sandisk SSD's and it's still good. Maybe we are panicking without good reason (at least me sometimes), I know that the main disadvantage is because it's soldered on, but most of us are buying mobile phones worth 1000 or more USD, and the parts are soldered as well, right?

By any chance is that SSD 128GB?

Mind you, from experience Windows writes much less to SSDs compared to M1 MacBooks. I was pretty surprised to see daily writes on my M1 MBA that's equivalent to a few months on Windows.

Also, some of the PB figures tend to be misleading. That's when the SSD may have completely died but what users really need to pay attention to is when it first experienced data corruption, random lockups, etc.

 

[DekuBleep]

How do you check the total write count on your SSD? Can you do it without installing HomeBrew?

 

[k-hawinkler]

How do you check the total write count on your SSD? Can you do it without installing HomeBrew?

I use DriveDx.

 

[||\||]

How do you check the total write count on your SSD? Can you do it without installing HomeBrew?

SMART Utility | Volitans Software

www.volitans-software.com

 

[Mike Boreham]

How do you check the total write count on your SSD? Can you do it without installing HomeBrew?

SmartTBW is a very easy to use app that runs in Terminal and is free. Gives same results as DriveDX and Smartmontools but does not need Homebrew.

Details in This post by the author @jdb8167

 

[Aleksandro]

Do I have to worry If i had over 70gb READS over 2 hours comapred to olny 7gb of WRITES?

 

[||\||]

Do I have to worry If i had over 70gb READS over 2 hours comapred to olny 7gb of WRITES?

Reads do not affect the life of an SSD in any meaningful way. SSDs are rated for a certain number of terrabytes written. Even that doesn't really mean much.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Do I have to worry If i had over 70gb READS over 2 hours comapred to olny 7gb of WRITES?

Nope.

 

[rob984]

By any chance is that SSD 128GB?

Mind you, from experience Windows writes much less to SSDs compared to M1 MacBooks. I was pretty surprised to see daily writes on my M1 MBA that's equivalent to a few months on Windows.

Also, some of the PB figures tend to be misleading. That's when the SSD may have completely died but what users really need to pay attention to is when it first experienced data corruption, random lockups, etc.

120GB.. and for TBW on Kingston site it says 40TB.. long past that number.

As for the PB I wrote, I did a search for Total Host Writes, and saw screenshots on Toms Hardware forum.

My SSD:

 

[deaglecat]

I have a MBA 8Gb/256Gb and 1 week left to decide whether to return it under Apple's 14 day policy.

I love the hardware but at the moment, I am leaning towards sending it back, because I can't take the risk - also anxiety over SSD wear is not good for my normal use of the machine.

Am I right to be worried ?

 

[tollickd]

I have a MBA 8Gb/256Gb and 1 week left to decide whether to return it under Apple's 14 day policy.

I love the hardware but at the moment, I am leaning towards sending it back, because I can't take the risk - also anxiety over SSD wear is not good for my normal use of the machine.

Am I right to be worried ?

I had the same but now I don’t care! Who knows what coming down the line? Enjoy it now.

 

[chouseworth]

I have a MBA 8Gb/256Gb and 1 week left to decide whether to return it under Apple's 14 day policy.

I love the hardware but at the moment, I am leaning towards sending it back, because I can't take the risk - also anxiety over SSD wear is not good for my normal use of the machine.

Am I right to be worried ?

If you are going to be checking your write status at every turn and agonizing about premature death, sure, return it. Life is too short. Otherwise, enjoy it, as the great tool that it is. If your usage is comparable to or less than 95% of MBA M1 users, and you expect to use it for five years or so, you are more apt to get hit by a bus than have your SSD fail from overuse.

 

[rob984]

I have a MBA 8Gb/256Gb and 1 week left to decide whether to return it under Apple's 14 day policy.

I love the hardware but at the moment, I am leaning towards sending it back, because I can't take the risk - also anxiety over SSD wear is not good for my normal use of the machine.

Am I right to be worried ?

I was thinking the same.. but I changed my mind, it's a great machine. I am PRO photographer, and I do lots of editing, but 99% it's on my PC with 32 inch 4K monitor, and I will use this to edit some photos while on vacation or in the field. But for day to day use, like surfing web, listening to music, or even watching Netflix in Edge.. I don't see much writings, few GB maybe, so it should last long enough. Heck, I bought iPhone for the same price 2 years ago, and will probably use it by the end of this year, after that, sell it for peanuts. I guess M1 macs will last much longer, and will keep their price much better. So, don't sweat too much.

 

[Maximara]

I have a MBA 8Gb/256Gb and 1 week left to decide whether to return it under Apple's 14 day policy.

I love the hardware but at the moment, I am leaning towards sending it back, because I can't take the risk - also anxiety over SSD wear is not good for my normal use of the machine.

Am I right to be worried ?

I don't think so. The issue is all over the map and if push comes to shove you can always boot off an external SSD which is much cheaper then Apple's options.

 

[deaglecat]

thanks for the replies.

I hear booting from an external SSD actually needs a working internal SSD to successfully boot.

How bad is the M1 Mac's SSD failure problem?

If your M1 Mac's SSD fails, you can't boot off an external drive, a change from past decades. Here's the problem and strategies to manage the risk.

www.zdnet.com

 

[leons]

thanks for the replies.

I hear booting from an external SSD actually needs a working internal SSD to successfully boot.

Can't be completely dead, but can be 100% "used". But, whether or not it completely "dies" (very rare) is random and has nothing to do with this issue.

 

[rui no onna]

120GB.. and for TBW on Kingston site it says 40TB.. long past that number.

As for the PB I wrote, I did a search for Total Host Writes, and saw screenshots on Toms Hardware forum.

My SSD:
View attachment 1756879

Close enough. That's bound to be 128GiB NAND/14% factory OP minimum.

Warranty is very conservative and tends to factor in high write amplification of 10-50x so I usually ignore those.

3D TLC VNAND, I usually estimate (capacity * 3000) for minimum NAND writes/endurance

3D QLC VNAND, estimate (capacity * 1000) for minimum NAND writes/endurance

 

[leons]

Close enough. That's bound to be 128GiB NAND/14% factory OP minimum.

Warranty is very conservative and tends to factor in high write amplification of 10-50x so I usually ignore those.

3D TLC VNAND, I usually estimate (capacity * 3000) for minimum NAND writes/endurance

3D QLC VNAND, estimate (capacity * 1000) for minimum NAND writes/endurance.

Information I've seen says they're using 3D TLC. Your estimate would give the drive a life of 750TBW, roughly half the 1600TBW that is indicated by their wear indicator for a 256MB drive. However, even using your estimate, if someone managed to write 1TB/month the drive would last over 60 years. Assuming as high as 10TB written every month, it still gives a life of more than 6 years minimum.

 

[Homy]

The TBW numbers given by manufacturers are estimations and in fact many SSDs last many times longer. There is a formula you can use to estimate the life span: https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/the...es-it-last-and-what-can-be-done-to-take-care/

"For example, the Samsung SSD 850 PRO SATA is stated to be “built to handle 150 terabytes written (TBW), which equates to a 40 GB daily read/write workload over a ten-year period.” Samsung promises that the product is “withstanding up to 600 terabytes written (TBW).”

How Long Do SSDs Really Last?

Beware: an SSD has a built-in 'time of death' that you can't ignore, notes Philip Bridge, President, Ontrack. So, how long do SSDs really last?

techmonitor.ai

 

[leons]

The TBW numbers given by manufacturers are estimations and in fact many SSDs last many times longer. There is a formula you can use to estimate the life span: https://www.compuram.de/blog/en/the...es-it-last-and-what-can-be-done-to-take-care/

"For example, the Samsung SSD 850 PRO SATA is stated to be “built to handle 150 terabytes written (TBW), which equates to a 40 GB daily read/write workload over a ten-year period.” Samsung promises that the product is “withstanding up to 600 terabytes written (TBW).”

How Long Do SSDs Really Last?

Beware: an SSD has a built-in 'time of death' that you can't ignore, notes Philip Bridge, President, Ontrack. So, how long do SSDs really last?

techmonitor.ai

The article above quotes:

"The most recent estimates from Google and the University of Toronto after testing SSDs over a multi-year period put the age limit as somewhere between five and ten years depending on usage – around the same time as the average washing machine. The study confirmed that the age of the SSD was the primary determinant of when an SSD stopped working."

These SSDs were tested in extreme usage data-center environments, and the stand-out finding was that the age of the drive was more significant to lifespan than TBW.

 

[rui no onna]

Information I've seen says they're using 3D TLC. Your estimate would give the drive a life of 750TBW, roughly half the 1600TBW that is indicated by their wear indicator for a 256MB drive. However, even using your estimate, if someone managed to write 1TB/month the drive would last over 60 years. Assuming as high as 10TB written every month, it still gives a life of more than 6 years minimum.

The 3K is the typical minimum P/E cycles for consumer-level 3D TLC SSDs.

As I've mentioned before, based on most of the Percent Used vs Drive Writes S.M.A.R.T. attribute stats on M1 Macs, the NAND flash Apple uses appear to be either rated for 6K or they're using 100% OP.

I agree about longevity. I was initially concerned considering I had TB write figures in 1 month that I have on my Windows machine after 2 years. I just keep an eye on % used and back calculate expected lifespan based on that. As long as it makes it to 10 years, I'm good.

 

[leons]

The 3K is the typical minimum P/E cycles for consumer-level 3D TLC SSDs.

As I've mentioned before, based on most of the Percent Used vs Drive Writes S.M.A.R.T. attribute stats on M1 Macs, the NAND flash Apple uses appear to be either rated for 6K or they're using 100% OP.

I agree about longevity. I was initially concerned considering I had TB write figures in 1 month that I have on my Windows machine after 2 years. I just keep an eye on % used and back calculate expected lifespan based on that. As long as it makes it to 10 years, I'm good.

Don't feel bad! I've had my MI Air for just 1 month. After I got it, I started out (my usual) by using Safari with 50+ tabs. I was accumulating upwards of 1TBW/DAY!. So, I am the poster child for TBW. In one month, I've accumulated 14TBW, but most of that was before I became informed. Now, I'm down to around 50GB/day with intense use. Most of the improvement is due to my changing to Firefox and using the Tab Suspender add-on. However, (for the benefit of those just "jumping in" on this potst), it is generally NOT necessary to make these adjustments if you are not an intense user and/or are not a tab "abuser" (like me). All that being said, I would buy this wonderful computer again, even knowing these "issues".

 

[southerndoc]

My iMac has a 750GB SSD and is 10 years old now. It's still working fine. 1.16 TB written.

I purchased my MacBook Air 16GB 1TB on Saturday. In only 5 days, it's written 0.22 TB. Granted, I've filled the hard drive by downloading all my music, setting up apps, SynologyDrive, OneDrive, etc. so a lot of this is just from setting it up.

 

[Thistle41]

I have a preliminary version of a command line tool that I called smartTBW. It does essentially the same thing as smartmontools (smartctl) and DriveDX but it is massively simplified. I wanted to be sure that no bugs crept in to verify that the existing tools are doing their jobs correctly.

I can verify that my results are identical to smartmontools. I kept everything as simple as possible so that anyone with the skills can review the code and see for themselves that Apple's libraries are doing all the heavy lifting. The only complication is dealing with 128-bit integers but that seems to be working.

You can look at the code here: https://github.com/jamesdbailey/smartTBW. I created a release to help with anyone who wants to install this without having to use Xcode. I don't know what kind of signing is required so if someone tries this and it doesn't work because of a signing error let me know and I'll look into it further.

The release is here: https://github.com/jamesdbailey/smartTBW/releases/download/v0.1/smartTBW

Edit: I'm not positive but it looks like you can either grant access to the tool explicitly in System Preferences->Security & Privacy->General after unlocking with an admin password or you can add Terminal to Developer Tools under System Preferences->Security & Privacy->Privacy. After unlocking click the + button and searching for Terminal, click the open button.

Thanks, it works just great! Previously I needed to switch to an admin user to run the conventional tool.