ssd swap - high usage of Terabytes Written

[The_Interloper]

I have no argument that the issue "should" be fixed so that no adjustments are necessary. However, the M1 and the machines that contain it are quantum leaps in computing. As a person who is "pretty technically savvy" you likely realize that there is no such thing as a great leap in ANY technology without growing pains. In some cases , growing pains can be significant and unacceptable. In other cases, they can be minor and easily remediated. This is a case of the latter. The great advantages of using this technology and how it can improve your computing life FAR outweigh the minor inconvenience of the adjustments needed to remediate it. You or others may see it differently, and it is well within your rights to stand on the sidelines and use inferior/slower technology (which often has its own/different issues) until Apple (or third party vendors) "fix" this problem. My personal choice is to utilize this wonderful technology now.

It's my choice too. I own both an M1 Mac Mini and MacBook Pro. I'm more than willing to accept some teething pains for the benefits on offer.

But, again, if these are such simple fixes then Apple should have patched them already. The vast majority of users will never manually apply these fixes and may find their machines are paperweights in a few years due to this problem.

 

[CMMChris]

The vast majority of users will never manually apply these fixes and may find their machines are paperweights in a few years due to this problem.

The vast majority of users isn't even affected by the high TBW issue so there is no need to apply fixes for most M1 users.

 

[IceStormNG]

The vast majority of users isn't even affected by the high TBW issue so there is no need to apply fixes for most M1 users.

How do we know this? Did someone made a representative statistic? I don't think so.
It's just guessing. It's as correct/wrong as saying "the majority of users is affected".

The majority of users is not here. The majority of users doesn't even know what TBW is. The majority of users doesn't even know that SSDs have a finite lifespan. Heck, the majority of users doesn't even know what a fu** SSD is.

 

[ZebedeeG]

Quick question...

I'm looking to replace my current iMac with the new 24" M1 model in the next couple of months, and I found this thread whilst doing my research.

Other than spotting the high numbers for disk writes on Activity Monitor, or using an app like DriveDX, etc., was there any indication that your Mac wasn't behaving as expected?

Slow glitchy performance?

Fans Blowing?

I'm not that techie so if my computer works as expected and lasts seven to eight years (any more being a bonus - my godson's still enjoying my 2009 iMac) I'm a happy customer. As long as I have a good user experience I frankly don't care what's going on inside!

I plan to purchase the top model maxed out with 16gb memory and 2tb storage (in purple!), which by the sounds of things even if it does hammer the SSD it's unlikely to cause me problems in the expected lifetime of the computer.

I'll also be getting AppleCare+ which have I heard can now be extended past three years?

 

[CMMChris]

How do we know this? Did someone made a representative statistic? I don't think so.

Look, if it was a common issue, it would be extremely easy to find people affected by this outside of the topics covering this issue. But guess what? It's not so easy.

I myself as a heavy user am not affected, despite regularly maxing out my 16GB of RAM and swapping (I can just repeat again and again that it's impossible to generate the huge amounts of TBW some people are reporting by swapping alone).

I have two relatives who own M1 Macs, both 8GB models. One of them does only light web surfing and office tasks, the other does more intense workloads (hobbyist video editing and photography). Both are not affected by the high TBW issue.

During my Hackintosh time I also was taking care of some Hackintoshes for other people. A lot of them switched to M1 Macs. I am still in touch with 11 of them, some own 8GB machines, some 16GB. None of those people is affected.

Over on a German Hackintosh forum that I am active on there has been a discussion related to the high TBW issue with some users panicking because they stumbled upon this issue on YouTube / blogs / news sites and have been unsure about cancelling their orders, returning their M1 Macs or placing an order for an M1 Mac at all. Up until today, there has been no report from any of those people that they are affected by the high TBW issue.

Bottomline is, I have been trying hard to find people affected by the issue myself (because I am interested in such strange issues, tracking them down) without going to topics like this. So far I haven't succeeded. That is a clear indicator that the issue is not very widespread.

Another indicator is Apple's silence about it as well as the fact that Feedback regarding this issue submitted through the Feedback Assistant is still being ignored by Apple (they only start reacting if a certain number of reports about the same issue has been submitted).

Add to that some common sense: By now it is very clear, that the issue is not caused by macOS or the Apple M1 itself (otherwise every single machine out there would be affected). Instead, it looks to be caused by some very specific circumstances / combination of Apps. That alone does limit the number of people affected.

 

[Forti]

Look, if it was a common issue, it would be extremely easy to find people affected by this outside of the topics covering this issue. But guess what? It's not so easy.

[...]

People can (some will) start notice this issue in the next 2-4 years. But guess what? It will be too late to "force" / require some actions from apple

 

[CMMChris]

What does your response have to do with my message? I was talking about making people check if they are affected and so far the result always has been a no for me.

 

[leons]

Quick question...

I'm looking to replace my current iMac with the new 24" M1 model in the next couple of months, and I found this thread whilst doing my research.

Other than spotting the high numbers for disk writes on Activity Monitor, or using an app like DriveDX, etc., was there any indication that your Mac wasn't behaving as expected?

Slow glitchy performance?

Fans Blowing?

I'm not that techie so if my computer works as expected and lasts seven to eight years (any more being a bonus - my godson's still enjoying my 2009 iMac) I'm a happy customer. As long as I have a good user experience I frankly don't care what's going on inside!

I plan to purchase the top model maxed out with 16gb memory and 2tb storage (in purple!), which by the sounds of things even if it does hammer the SSD it's unlikely to cause me problems in the expected lifetime of the computer.

I'll also be getting AppleCare+ which have I heard can now be extended past three years?

No, there are no side effects that affect the user experience. With your maxed out storage, memory, and AppleCare, you should have no issue.

 

[ZebedeeG]

No, there are no side effects that affect the user experience. With your maxed out shortage, memory, and AppleCare, you should have no issue.

Brilliant!

Thanks for taking the time to reply - that's all I wanted to know...

(Typical Apple customer. I'd never heard of TBW before, though I do just about know what an SSD is - but not how it works... It's all magic and pixie dust to me! 😋)

 

[leons]

Brilliant!

Thanks for taking the time to reply - that's all I wanted to know...

(Typical Apple customer. I'd never heard of TBW before, though I do just about know what an SSD is - but not how it works... It's all magic and pixie dust to me! 😋)

Just check it occasionally to make sure you aren't an "outlier". Even if you are, the steps you can take to remediate are here. Welcome to the forum!

 

[ZebedeeG]

Just check it occasionally to make sure you aren't an "outlier". Even if you are, the steps you can take to remediate are here. Welcome to the forum!

Thanks! Will do...

 

[Baff]

Look, if it was a common issue, it would be extremely easy to find people affected by this outside of the topics covering this issue. But guess what? It's not so easy.

Of course you don't see it outside of these threads, for the obvious reason that people have to actively look for the numbers to know if they are affected. The vast majority of users would never know there was a problem until their SSD failed.

I myself as a heavy user am not affected, despite regularly maxing out my 16GB of RAM and swapping (I can just repeat again and again that it's impossible to generate the huge amounts of TBW some people are reporting by swapping alone).

And yet, you refuse to give us your numbers.

I have two relatives who own M1 Macs, both 8GB models. One of them does only light web surfing and office tasks, the other does more intense workloads (hobbyist video editing and photography). Both are not affected by the high TBW issue.

During my Hackintosh time I also was taking care of some Hackintoshes for other people. A lot of them switched to M1 Macs. I am still in touch with 11 of them, some own 8GB machines, some 16GB. None of those people is affected.

Over on a German Hackintosh forum that I am active on there has been a discussion related to the high TBW issue with some users panicking because they stumbled upon this issue on YouTube / blogs / news sites and have been unsure about cancelling their orders, returning their M1 Macs or placing an order for an M1 Mac at all. Up until today, there has been no report from any of those people that they are affected by the high TBW issue.

Bottomline is, I have been trying hard to find people affected by the issue myself (because I am interested in such strange issues, tracking them down) without going to topics like this. So far I haven't succeeded. That is a clear indicator that the issue is not very widespread.

It probably isn't widespread, yet, and it may never be. And?

Add to that some common sense: By now it is very clear, that the issue is not caused by macOS or the Apple M1 itself (otherwise every single machine out there would be affected).

I have seen no proof yet that every machine isn't affected. You certainly haven't shown any.

Instead, it looks to be caused by some very specific circumstances / combination of Apps. That alone does limit the number of people affected.

Such combos include Mac OS and Safari on M1 Macs. In case you didn't know, those are all Apple products.

 

[CMMChris]

What a load of BS... let's tear it down!

Of course you don't see it outside of these threads, for the obvious reason that people have to actively look for the numbers to know if they are affected. The vast majority of users would never know there was a problem until their SSD failed.

This sentence makes absolutely no sense as a response to what I wrote. Of course I know that a lot of people are not aware of that issue. And of course those who are aware of it and affected by it will gather in topics like this. But exactly this is what distorts the overall picture and why I ACTIVELY tried to find people on other places affected by it. The people I have been talking about in post #2406 have all checked their numbers and everything is fine.

And yet, you refuse to give us your numbers.

I am not refusing anything. You are just too lazy to look up my posts. I have posted my stats numerous times in here. Well, let's make your life a bit easier...

It probably isn't widespread, yet, and it may never be. And?

What "And?". I was responding to a guy who was acting like it is widespread. What's your problem?

I have seen no proof yet that every machine isn't affected. You certainly haven't shown any.

See above or the posts of other unaffected users in this topic.

Such combos include Mac OS and Safari on M1 Macs. In case you didn't know, those are all Apple products.

Have been using Safari on my M1 for the first 3 months until I got sick and tired of this buggy piece of sh**. Didn't have any SSD or RAM related issues with it, even when loading it with tabs. Now using Chrome which according to some in here also causes high TBW. IT DOES NOT!

 

[Jinbei]

I have an average of 90GB written per day for a 512GB ssd. Should I be worried and try some of the solution on this thread or I am in the "normal" stats ?

 

[Baff]

I am not refusing anything. You are just too lazy to look up my posts. I have posted my stats numerous times in here. Well, let's make your life a bit easier...

I specifically asked how many tabs you opened and how much swap you had. You still haven't answered.

See above or the posts of other unaffected users in this topic.

That is in no way proof that every M1 isn't susceptible to this issue.

 

[Baff]

I have an average of 90GB written per day for a 512GB ssd. Should I be worried and try some of the solution on this thread or I am in the "normal" stats ?

As long as it stays around that level, you are just fine.

 

[daverdfw]

update on 11.4b1. uptime is 4day 24min didn't use it a lot over the weekend. but it was still on. 198GB written. So far this is MUCH better.

 

[doboy]

Hope today's release helps with this situation without going through hoops.

 

[CMMChris]

I have an average of 90GB written per day for a 512GB ssd. Should I be worried and try some of the solution on this thread or I am in the "normal" stats ?

No one can tell without knowing what you do. If you just do light office work / web browsing with no large files your stats would be too high.

 

[TheSynchronizer]

I have an average of 90GB written per day for a 512GB ssd. Should I be worried and try some of the solution on this thread or I am in the "normal" stats ?

90 / 24 = 3.75 GB/ hour. Over a year that would be just over 32TB written.

600/32 = 18.75. So expect a minimum of 19 years of SSD life, and I mean minimum, because you have a 512GB SSD which will last longer than a 256GB ssd. Realistically I'd expect it to last around 30 years due to it being 512GB so.. I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

 

[Jinbei]

No one can tell without knowing what you do. If you just do light office work / web browsing with no large files your stats would be too high.

I am a web developper.

90 / 24 = 3.75 GB/ hour. Over a year that would be just over 32TB written.

600/32 = 18.75. So expect a minimum of 19 years of SSD life, and I mean minimum, because you have a 512GB SSD which will last longer than a 256GB ssd. Realistically I'd expect it to last around 30 years due to it being 512GB so.. I'd say you have nothing to worry about.

Thank you that is reassuring. I will not change my habits then, as I will change my machine much sooner than that.

 

[ambient_light]

Have been using Safari on my M1 for the first 3 months until I got sick and tired of this buggy piece of sh**. Didn't have any SSD or RAM related issues with it, even when loading it with tabs. Now using Chrome which according to some in here also causes high TBW. IT DOES NOT!
View attachment 1764253

From your kernel_task numbers it looks like your MBP doesn't swap much indeed. Which exact macOS version is that, and what is your output of the vm_stat? Is it an upgrade or fresh install? Might help to narrow down cases, which may not as severely affected as others.

As to the swapping issue mentioned in the title of this thread, it does produce excessive and erratic writes, quite widespread, and could be easily tracked through the vm_stat, no need to argue about it too much Good news is that there are improvements in 11.3 and especially in 11.4beta.

 

[CMMChris]

Yeah I haven't done any intense work during that uptime. If I do, I am using the swap file but I haven't seen it growing larger than 2GB (while editing 8k footage in FCPX).

I am running that machine since I got it (November 2020) on the Developer seed, so every macOS Beta release has been installed and I am at 11.4 B1 right now. I never had excessive writes in any release of macOS, not with Apps running in Rosetta, not with FCPX and not with Safari and Chrome even when loading them with 50 Tabs at a time.

As an example, here is Chrome with 50 tabs of Aliexpress (front page + different product pages) which is quite a resource hog due to all the ads, scripts and pictures:

 

[TheSynchronizer]

To anyone interested and affected by excessive SSD writes on M1, I've posted my list of fixes for excessive SSD writes on the first page of this thread, as well as here where I was able to attach relevant screenshots.

I expect most people to be able to fix their excessive SSD writing by trying these steps, atleast until Apple fixes it themselves.

 

[TheSynchronizer]

Apologies to be the one asking this, may I ask for the list of fixes to this issue? I feel like there should be a sticky of all the fixes that have been proven to work so newcomers to this thread can have a look at it.

Thanks, @TheSychronizer, I was the one who asked for the Wiki feature to be added to this thread but unfortunately, I'm unable to edit (probably due to my lack of posting history). I'm making a spreadsheet with a plot of writes, hopefully, I will see what changes made a significant difference.

I've posted the full list of fixes/steps I took to personally reduce my writes from 400GB+ a day to 50GB+/- a day with the exact same heavy workloads, without losing any functionality, on the first post of this thread as well as here with relevant screenshots. Hope it helps!