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CMMChris

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2019
850
794
Germany (Bavaria)
That strangeness is what makes me think this is not entirely an Apple problem but some weird combination of Apple and third party software causing the excessive writes some people are seeing.
Yeah, I brought that thought up numerous times in here already.

Keep in mind you have 16GB while most people will have 8GB, so your swapping should be a lot less frequent by default, hence why you have lower writes by default.
I am swapping a lot. My Hackintosh was running on 32GB of RAM which I regularly maxed out. I regularly fill up the 16GB of the M1 as well, mostly during video editing with Final Cut or when using a ton of tabs in Chrome or both at the same time. Swap alone definitely isn't the sole cause of high TBW.
 

stigman

macrumors regular
Dec 2, 2014
181
67
Europe
Yeah, I brought that thought up numerous times in here already.


I am swapping a lot. My Hackintosh was running on 32GB of RAM which I regularly maxed out. I regularly fill up the 16GB of the M1 as well, mostly during video editing with Final Cut or when using a ton of tabs in Chrome or both at the same time. Swap alone definitely isn't the sole cause of high TBW.
Chrome literally murders the ram. Edge is better optimized in terms of ram managment or even Bravo browser
 

leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
Chrome literally murders the ram. Edge is better optimized in terms of ram managment or even Bravo browser
"Murder" is appropriate! I was using Chrome (with 50+ tabs) when 1TB/day usage was murdering my SSD! 😳
 

wirtandi

macrumors regular
Feb 3, 2021
179
179
Not sure if I was "absolutely" the worse, but I certainly was a canditate to be the "Excessive SSD writes Poster Child". At its peak, I was writing 1TB/Day while running no special/unusual/disk intensive software. My disk was well on its way to the SSD graveyard. Now, after making the few adjustments in this thread (with special thanks and recognition to the "Mayor" of this thread, @TheSynchronizer), I am now down to an average of 40-50GB/day. I have now changed my Will, and I am bequeathing my Macbook to my great-great-great grandchildren!
Thank you, now I understand some of the worst case scenarios like yours. 1TB/day is indeed crazy o_O

EDIT: Based on my research, there are people out there with writes of about 80TB/month. I am speechless
 
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wirtandi

macrumors regular
Feb 3, 2021
179
179
Two questions please

1. What is the "data written" in the bottom right of "Disk" tab in activity monitor made up of anyway? Is it made up of all those processes listed above (kernal_task, launchd, analyticsd, apps you have open), all added together? Also, what is a healthy number to aim for? Lets say per day of usage

2. In drivedx's "data units written", mine says 242GB after 5 days of use (but this number goes up by about 5-10GB/day. maybe it is high because of all the things that happen on a brand new computer?). What does drivedx's data written mean? Is it simply all the data that has been written to my SSD since day 1?

Am I right in saying the Activity monitor's data written contributes to drivedx's data written? (As in, activity monitor's data written shows the total data written for that session, until you turn off your laptop, whereas drivedx's data written shows all the data written since day 1?)
 
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IceStormNG

macrumors 6502a
Sep 23, 2020
517
676
Two questions please

1. What is the "data written" in the bottom right of "Disk" tab in activity monitor made up of anyway? Is it made up of all those processes listed above (kernal_task, launchd, analyticsd, apps you have open), all added together? Also, what is a healthy number to aim for? Lets say per day of usage

2. In drivedx's "data units written", mine says 242GB after 5 days of use (but this number goes up by about 5-10GB/day. maybe it is high because of all the things that happen on a brand new computer?). What does drivedx's data written mean? Is it simply all the data that has been written to my SSD since day 1?

3. Am I right in saying the Activity monitor's data written contributes to drivedx's data written? (As in, activity monitor's data written shows the total data written for that session, until you turn off your laptop, whereas drivedx's data written shows all the data written since day 1?)
1. Data written is all data that passed down through the I/O drivers. It also contains data from external disk, network shares and other stuff that's not your SSD. For example writing to a disk image counts twice as writing to the disk image itself is also counted, together with the data the disk image actually writes to your physical disk.

2. This is not high at all. 10GB per day is nothing. If we assume TLC SSD (which is likely), then 0.3 DWPD is perfeclty normal and will last "a very long time". This means 30% of the size of your SSD. A 256GB SSD would be about 77GB per day average(!!!), at 512GB twice of that, and so on and so on.

I would only be worried if it's significantly too high or you cannot explain those writes. Like 500GB per day you did nothing except writing in MS office, Zoom calls and light web-surfing. If you cut 4K video in Final Cut, 500GB a day is not that much and pretty easy to achieve.

Also: If you have very high drive writes a few times but otherwise low writes, this is not an issue. all that counts is the total amount of data written to the disk. All those daily/monthly/yearly values are just extrapolations to put the total value into context (time).

3. Yeah. Activity monitor is only valid until reboot and only as long as disks are connected. But if external disks/network shares are connected, it also counts their reads and writes. DriveDx or smartmontools is the way to go when you want to see the total writes to your SSD over its whole lifespan.


Anyway... After I researched more about it: It's very likely that even if you do write heavy stuff regularly, your machine will either fail because of something else or you buy a new machine before the SSD is worn out.

Even that postgresSQL server report is questionable. Even if the 600TBW are correctly read, I assume that most of that is not caused by the PGSQL server itself, but because of insufficient memory and heavy swapping. You cannot replace RAM with anything except more RAM. This exact problem would've also occurred if you would've use an equally (in terms of RAM and SSD) specced Intel machine instead of the M1.

Keep in mind: "New shiny Apple device is a big failure" gets more clicks and publicity than "old garbage machine from before WW2 failed because of daily abuse".
 
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ovenbakedlies

macrumors newbie
Feb 25, 2021
27
32
Last week I finally bit the bullet, and regrettably returned my Mac Mini M1 (8gb/256gb).

I had had it since December, but was able to return it due to Covid causing an extended return window. My SSD had used 4% of its lifetime (much closer to 5% as had been on 4% for some time and many more TB written in that time)

For comparison :
2013 Mackook Pro. Power On - 12,300 hours. 32 TB written. 100% lifetime remaining.
2021 Mac mini. Power On - 453 hours. 73 TB written. 95% lifetime remaining.

I stored virtually no data of my own on this machine. Nor was it used for any video or photo editing / viewing or anything similar. It was used exclusively for basic mac functions (calendar, reminders etc), web browsing and running some Chromium web apps (that store no user data).

I am certain that the problem, in my case, lies in running chromium apps through rosetta and / or a straight up problem in Mac OS and its swap usage.

I have seriously considered getting the 16gb model for comparison. But there are people of this forum and others who still have the same problem. And I find it unacceptable that Apple would charge me £200 for 8gb of RAM. This is price gouging and literally a 1000% mark-up from Apples wholesale price and they get away with it because we let them.

I'm going to sit on the sidelines for a bit. I'm not happy to spend £700/£900 on a basic but non-repairable and possibly disposable computer especially when Apple are not even acknowledging this is a problem.
 

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leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
Last week I finally bit the bullet, and regrettably returned my Mac Mini M1 (8gb/256gb).

I had had it since December, but was able to return it due to Covid causing an extended return window. My SSD had used 4% of its lifetime (much closer to 5% as had been on 4% for some time and many more TB written in that time)

For comparison :
2013 Mackook Pro. Power On - 12,300 hours. 32 TB written. 100% lifetime remaining.
2021 Mac mini. Power On - 453 hours. 73 TB written. 95% lifetime remaining.

I stored virtually no data of my own on this machine. Nor was it used for any video or photo editing / viewing or anything similar. It was used exclusively for basic mac functions (calendar, reminders etc), web browsing and running some Chromium web apps (that store no user data).

I am certain that the problem, in my case, lies in running chromium apps through rosetta and / or a straight up problem in Mac OS and its swap usage.

I have seriously considered getting the 16gb model for comparison. But there are people of this forum and others who still have the same problem. And I find it unacceptable that Apple would charge me £200 for 8gb of RAM. This is price gouging and literally a 1000% mark-up from Apples wholesale price and they get away with it because we let them.

I'm going to sit on the sidelines for a bit. I'm not happy to spend £700/£900 on a basic but non-repairable and possibly disposable computer especially when Apple are not even acknowledging this is a problem.
How many of the remediation suggestions in this thread did you try before returning it?
 
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mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,296
I am certain that the problem, in my case, lies in running chromium apps through rosetta and / or a straight up problem in Mac OS and its swap usage.

I have seriously considered getting the 16gb model for comparison. But there are people of this forum and others who still have the same problem. And I find it unacceptable that Apple would charge me £200 for 8gb of RAM. This is price gouging and literally a 1000% mark-up from Apples wholesale price and they get away with it because we let them.

I only run native apps and have run into memory management issues that use all 16GB RAM and creates a swap file with just one browser tab so still suspect it's the OS. The fact that Apple hasn't released an OS update in nearly two months either means they dropped support or the fix is elusive. More reason Apple should release driver source to Linux so we can have a reliable alternative OS in the meantime. That's why I dabble with MBA M1 but my go to is AMD x64 since I can multi-boot Linux, Windows, BSD, ChromeOS and even MacOS hackintosh.
 

leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
..."so still suspect it's the OS."
Whether it is the OS or not, many of us (myself included) have made a few minor adjustments, are using our machines 8 hours+ a day in demanding environments, and are writing only 50GB+/- to the disk daily.
 

The_Interloper

macrumors 6502a
Oct 28, 2016
688
1,414
Whether it is the OS or not, many of us (myself included) have made a few minor adjustments, are using our machines 8 hours+ a day in demanding environments, and are writing only 50GB+/- to the disk daily.
People should not have to make "a few minor adjustments" in order for their computer to work properly and not thrash the SSD to oblivion. I don't consider myself an average consumer (I'm pretty technically savvy), yet I wouldn't know where or what these adjustments are and how am I meant to find them in a thread that has already run to 96 pages?

For the average person, they will not have knowledge of this and have no clue how to fix the problem. Time will tell how their machines are affected in years to come.
 

wirtandi

macrumors regular
Feb 3, 2021
179
179
Apologies to be the one asking this, may I ask for the list of fixes to this issue? I feel like there should be a sticky of all the fixes that have been proven to work so newcomers to this thread can have a look at it.

So far I only know of disable browser caching, but what else? IIRC there are quite a lot of fixes mentioned here.

On a side note, could someone tell me how to view the total data written without drivedx? My trial is running out. I remember it was called smartmontools on terminal or something...
 

TheSynchronizer

macrumors 6502
Dec 2, 2014
443
729
It’s late now (GMT time), but tomorrow I’ll compile a list of all the fixes I and others have used with success to dramatically reduce our writes while not losing any functionality, as well as how to track if your writes are healthy / improving, and I’ll add it to the WikiPost in this thread (the very first post). This should be useful for new comers to the thread.

I myself have went from ranges of 350-500 GB per day to writing 25-50GB a day, and i’m doing all the same things on my m1 as I always have been. Others have reported success too so I think it’s fair to say these are worth trying!
 

leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
People should not have to make "a few minor adjustments" in order for their computer to work properly and not thrash the SSD to oblivion. I don't consider myself an average consumer (I'm pretty technically savvy), yet I wouldn't know where or what these adjustments are and how am I meant to find them in a thread that has already run to 96 pages?

For the average person, they will not have knowledge of this and have no clue how to fix the problem. Time will tell how their machines are affected in years to come.
I have no argument that the issue "should" be fixed so that no adjustments are necessary. However, the M1 and the machines that contain it are quantum leaps in computing. As a person who is "pretty technically savvy" you likely realize that there is no such thing as a great leap in ANY technology without growing pains. In some cases , growing pains can be significant and unacceptable. In other cases, they can be minor and easily remediated. This is a case of the latter. The great advantages of using this technology and how it can improve your computing life FAR outweigh the minor inconvenience of the adjustments needed to remediate it. You or others may see it differently, and it is well within your rights to stand on the sidelines and use inferior/slower technology (which often has its own/different issues) until Apple (or third party vendors) "fix" this problem. My personal choice is to utilize this wonderful technology now.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Apologies to be the one asking this, may I ask for the list of fixes to this issue? I feel like there should be a sticky of all the fixes that have been proven to work so newcomers to this thread can have a look at it.

So far I only know of disable browser caching, but what else? IIRC there are quite a lot of fixes mentioned here.

On a side note, could someone tell me how to view the total data written without drivedx? My trial is running out. I remember it was called smartmontools on terminal or something...
You can use my free version. smartTBW. I mostly wrote it to verify that smartmontools was working correctly but it produces the results you are probably interested in such as percentage used and Data units written (TBW).

Edit: You might have to right click and select open. I've been meaning to get it signed for notarization. I'll do that Monday.

Edit 2: I've updated the release to include a signed/notarized installer. Once installed you can run the tool with:
/usr/local/bin/smartTBW

You can download the much more comprehensive smartmontools using homebrew https://brew.sh and install with the terminal command line /bin/bash -c "$(curl -fsSL https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Homebrew/install/HEAD/install.sh)". Then brew install smartmontools. Or you can download it from their website: smartmontools download but that is problematic because it only runs on x86-64 and you would have to run your terminal in Rosetta 2.
 
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leons

macrumors 6502a
Apr 22, 2009
662
344
Apologies to be the one asking this, may I ask for the list of fixes to this issue? I feel like there should be a sticky of all the fixes that have been proven to work so newcomers to this thread can have a look at it.

So far I only know of disable browser caching, but what else? IIRC there are quite a lot of fixes mentioned here.

On a side note, could someone tell me how to view the total data written without drivedx? My trial is running out. I remember it was called smartmontools on terminal or something...
The Mayor of our thread @TheSynchronizer (who is sleeping right now) has committed to write a summary tomorrow. (Thank you!!!). In the mean time, for statistics, use the wonderful tool that James wrote (THANK YOU!!!) above. ^^^^

While we await tomorrows' Wiki, there are 2 things that you can do that have helped most that have had the issue:

1. Change from Safari to Edge,Firefox, or Brave.
2. Instal a "Tab Discarder" extension. "Auto Tab Discard" is one that I and several others have found effective. TheSynchronizer will give a more complete list tomorrow, but many have seen great results using only these two.
 
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Thistle41

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2021
74
39
UK
It’s late now (GMT time), but tomorrow I’ll compile a list of all the fixes I and others have used with success to dramatically reduce our writes while not losing any functionality, as well as how to track if your writes are healthy / improving, and I’ll add it to the WikiPost in this thread (the very first post). This should be useful for new comers to the thread.

I myself have went from ranges of 350-500 GB per day to writing 25-50GB a day, and i’m doing all the same things on my m1 as I always have been. Others have reported success too so I think it’s fair to say these are worth trying!
Thanks, @TheSychronizer, I was the one who asked for the Wiki feature to be added to this thread but unfortunately, I'm unable to edit (probably due to my lack of posting history). I'm making a spreadsheet with a plot of writes, hopefully, I will see what changes made a significant difference.
 

Thistle41

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2021
74
39
UK
The Mayor of our thread @TheSynchronizer (who is sleeping right now) has committed to write a summary tomorrow. (Thank you!!!). In the mean time, for statistics, use the wonderful tool that James wrote (THANK YOU!!!) above. ^^^^

While we await tomorrows' Wiki, there are 2 things that you can do that have helped most that have had the issue:

1. Change from Safari to Edge,Firefox, or Brave.
2. Instal a "Tab Discarder" extension. "Auto Tab Discard" is one that I and several others have found effective. TheSynchronizer will give a more complete list tomorrow, but many have seen great results using only these two.
I also found that turning off both FF 'Performance' tick boxes helped.
 
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Fomalhaut

macrumors 68000
Oct 6, 2020
1,993
1,724
Chrome literally murders the ram. Edge is better optimized in terms of ram managment or even Bravo browser
<pedantic-mode>

Check out Weird Al's lesson on the use of "literally" at
(2m:45)..and enjoy!
</pedantic-mode>

But I agree with you!

Safari (and probably Chrome too, if you don't disable the caching) use far more RAM, and hang on to it for dear life, even after *CLOSE THE TAB!*. I've moved to Edge because it just seems to treat the RAM as the precious resource it is, without using up so much for the computer immediately starts using large amounts of swap space (even on the 16GB M1 Macs), and inevitably writing to the SSD as it sends memory to swap.
 
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Forti

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 14, 2018
174
282
Gdynia, Poland
It’s late now (GMT time), but tomorrow I’ll compile a list of all the fixes I and others have used with success to dramatically reduce our writes while not losing any functionality, as well as how to track if your writes are healthy / improving, and I’ll add it to the WikiPost in this thread (the very first post). This should be useful for new comers to the thread.

I myself have went from ranges of 350-500 GB per day to writing 25-50GB a day, and i’m doing all the same things on my m1 as I always have been. Others have reported success too so I think it’s fair to say these are worth trying!

Cool. I will quote you in the first post.

btw - Since 2-3 weeks I notice a huge drop in daily TBW. Not sure why, but I'm still using the same tools, 8-14 hours per day etc.

Not sure why, but there are days when it's lower that 0.1 TB / per.

The only one thing I'm doing is logout after each day of work.
 
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