Star Trek: Alpha to Delta Quadrants & Everything In Between

[Huntn]

The issue with the new ST movies is the same issue that Bayformers has with Transformers; a very bad arc off of the original timeline that may start to spin out of control. but also at that point, the producers/writers created a schism between the purists that follow the original timeline/history and those who are only seeing the new material for the first time and only have that to go off of.

The other issue is that with every episode in the original ST timeline, there was a touch of social commentary, which that commentary, regardless of it being made 25 or 50 years ago, still applies todayWe can go back to the TNG episode The Drumhead, and apply the entire episode to Donald Trump's attempt at a Muslim ban in the US. And this was 25 years ago.

A couple of prominent quotes from that episode:



Sound familiar? Even more, there's this:



Again, it sounds eerily familiar to the current political climate not only the US, but the world is currently in. You can easily swap Admiral Satie for the UKIP, Marine Le Pen, and other nationalist movements.

There isn't any of that in the new arc.. it's more action and adventure without the commentary, and its the commentary that helps Star Trek maintain its longevity.

BL.

I... wait this is not PRSI, never mind.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The issue with the new ST movies is the same issue that Bayformers has with Transformers; a very bad arc off of the original timeline that may start to spin out of control. but also at that point, the producers/writers created a schism between the purists that follow the original timeline/history and those who are only seeing the new material for the first time and only have that to go off of.

The other issue is that with every episode in the original ST timeline, there was a touch of social commentary, which that commentary, regardless of it being made 25 or 50 years ago, still applies todayWe can go back to the TNG episode The Drumhead, and apply the entire episode to Donald Trump's attempt at a Muslim ban in the US. And this was 25 years ago.

Actually, - while I have always liked the 'alternate' timelines stories, - and genuinely like the new movies - I must admit that I am not entirely crazy about what you have described so well as "a very bad arc off of the original timeline that may start to spin out of control".

Sound familiar? Even more, there's this:



Again, it sounds eerily familiar to the current political climate not only the US, but the world is currently in. You can easily swap Admiral Satie for the UKIP, Marine Le Pen, and other nationalist movements.

There isn't any of that in the new arc.. it's more action and adventure without the commentary, and its the commentary that helps Star Trek maintain its longevity.

BL.

Now, this is an excellent point, and comes back to my complaint that none of the movies - none of them - have any of the narrative depth and range - such as deep contextual analysis (and that includes social commentary) of the best of the respective TV shows.

Agree that action and adventure (and bloated special effects budgets) are insufficient; character development, a good script, a good story to tell, preferably one that is powerfully grounded in social (and political and ethical issues) was what distinguished the very best of the STNG (or, indeed the original Star Trek, or DS9, or Voyager) episodes.

"The Measure of a Man" - a brilliant episode - could have been shot on stage; a great story, strong characters, some terrific acting, addressing core issues of ethics and identity and human rights - and hardly any "action", "adventure", or "special effects" - but what an unforgettable episode, one rightly considered to be the first outstanding episode of STNG.

 

[Mac'nCheese]

Okay.. time for a WTF post that has been bugging me for about 15 years.

for the most, Star Trek has been pretty fluent with the timelines (with the exception of when they intentionally wanted to screw with them: Time's Arrow, the Mobius, The Voyage Home, etc.). Best of Both Worlds provided the backstory to DS9's pilot, The Emmisary. Relics was even very plausible in the ST Universe. DS9 smoothly helped transition ST: Voyager in, as Voyager started its mission leaving DS9, searching for the Maquis, which Riker was one of them. So new series pilots with throwbacks/shoutouts to previous episodes.

Now, the WTF moment. There was no real mention of a Borg Queen until Star Trek: First Contact, which took place well after Voyager left DS9. IIRC, the Borg Queen gets destroyed in that movie (sorry for the spoiler, but it leads to the WTF moment), with her spine being broken..

So how, back in the Delta Quadrant in Voyager, is the Borg Queen alive again, and the main threat to Voyager towards the end of the series? And again, she gets destroyed in the finale of the series? IIRC, Voyager is still in the Delta Quadrant during First Contact, but I believe is back in the Alpha Quadrant by the time ST: Insurrection occurs, let alone ST: Nemesis.


BL.

" You think in such three-dimensional terms."

 

[phrehdd]

Degrees of separation - a slight change here. We have seen various actors in one of the ST series show up in others (like Colm Meaney mentioned above) but can anyone identify shows other than ST where more than one ST actor has appeared or a mix of popular sci fi show actors are on the same show?

Example -

Boston Legal - William Shatner (ST), Rene Auberjonois (ST-DS9) and James Spader (Stargate - movie). Also 3 episodes with Ethan Phillips and 2 episodes with Jeri Ryan (ST:VOY)... I am sure there are more ST actors doing guest roles.

Bonanza - George Takei, Nichelle Nichols, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Majel Barett, Walter Koneig, DeForest Kelly, and James Doohan guest appearances.

Man From U.N.C.L.E. - same episode guest roles - Shatner and Nimoy

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Degrees of separation - a slight change here. We have seen various actors in one of the ST series show up in others (like Colm Meaney mentioned above) but can anyone identify shows other than ST where more than one ST actor has appeared or a mix of popular sci fi show actors are on the same show?

Example -

Boston Legal - William Shatner (ST), Rene Auberjonois (ST-DS9) and James Spader (Stargate - movie). Also 3 episodes with Ethan Phillips and 2 episodes with Jeri Ryan (ST:VOY)... I am sure there are more ST actors doing guest roles.

Bonanza - George Takei, Nichelle Nichols, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Majel Barett, Walter Koneig, DeForest Kelly, and James Doohan guest appearances.

Man From U.N.C.L.E. - same episode guest roles - Shatner and Nimoy

What interests me more is the topic of actors taking on other roles within the franchise, as was done by Mark Lenard (best known for his roles as Sarek), or Michael Dorn (Worf).

 

[bradl]

Degrees of separation - a slight change here. We have seen various actors in one of the ST series show up in others (like Colm Meaney mentioned above) but can anyone identify shows other than ST where more than one ST actor has appeared or a mix of popular sci fi show actors are on the same show?

Example -

Boston Legal - William Shatner (ST), Rene Auberjonois (ST-DS9) and James Spader (Stargate - movie). Also 3 episodes with Ethan Phillips and 2 episodes with Jeri Ryan (ST:VOY)... I am sure there are more ST actors doing guest roles.

Bonanza - George Takei, Nichelle Nichols, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Majel Barett, Walter Koneig, DeForest Kelly, and James Doohan guest appearances.

Man From U.N.C.L.E. - same episode guest roles - Shatner and Nimoy

Gargoyles. It was basically the entire TNG cast.

Dukes of Hazzard. Frakes married Daisy Duke.

Castle. Dorn was the psychiatrist for Beckett.

Gray's Anatomy. Sirtis was one of the patients on the show.

And of course, Big Bang Theory.. not much more needs to be said on that show.

BL.

 

[SoggyCheese]

Degrees of separation - a slight change here. We have seen various actors in one of the ST series show up in others (like Colm Meaney mentioned above) but can anyone identify shows other than ST where more than one ST actor has appeared or a mix of popular sci fi show actors are on the same show?

Example -

Boston Legal - William Shatner (ST), Rene Auberjonois (ST-DS9) and James Spader (Stargate - movie). Also 3 episodes with Ethan Phillips and 2 episodes with Jeri Ryan (ST:VOY)... I am sure there are more ST actors doing guest roles.

Bonanza - George Takei, Nichelle Nichols, William Shatner, Leonard Nimoy, Majel Barett, Walter Koneig, DeForest Kelly, and James Doohan guest appearances.

Man From U.N.C.L.E. - same episode guest roles - Shatner and Nimoy

Babylon 5 had a few didn't it? Walter Koenig obviously, but there were a few minor Star Trek characters who played parts in B5 if I remember correctly. Andreas Katzulas (G'Kar in B5) turned up in multiple TNG episodes as a Romulan, and the actress who played Leta Alexander was in that "Captain Picard does Die-Hard" episode with the particle sweep.

 

[Mousse]

What interests me more is the topic of actors taking on other roles within the franchise, as was done by Mark Lenard (best known for his roles as Sarek), or Michael Dorn (Worf).

Oh right, Mark Lenard did play Spock's father. I remember him best as the Romulan commander in TOS: Balance of Terror (the best TOS episode, IMO). I've re-watched that episode at least a dozen times. He was also the Klingon captain in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I didn't know until the credits rolled.

Suzie Plakson played 4 different species: K'Ehleyr (Klingon), Dr Selar (Vulcan), a female Q (guess) and Tarah (Andorian).

Diana Muldaur played Dr Pulaski in TNG and a guest starred as two different characters episode of TOS, Miranda Jones and Ann Mulhall.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Oh right, Mark Lenard did play Spock's father. I remember him best as the Romulan commander in TOS: Balance of Terror (the best TOS episode, IMO). I've re-watched that episode at least a dozen times. He was also the Klingon captain in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I didn't know until the credits rolled.

Suzie Plakson played 4 different species: K'Ehleyr (Klingon), Dr Selar (Vulcan), a female Q (guess) and Tarah (Andorian).

Diana Muldaur played Dr Pulaski in TNG and a guest starred as two different characters episode of TOS, Miranda Jones and Ann Mulhall.

Bravo. (Where is that emoticon for applause when I need it?) Well done.



And - of course - do not overlook Majel Barrett - who even played (seriously cutting edge,a female No 1) the original No. 1 in the pilot for TOS, and appeared in some shape or form in every subsequent series.

Balance of Terror was an excellent episode, and yes, Mark Lenard did play a Klingon, Sarek (a Vulcan), and a Roman, (three species), and - as you have pointed out - the superb Suzie Plakson played individuals from four different species, (and clearly thoroughly enjoyed herself).

 

[mobilehaathi]

And - of course - do not overlook Majel Barrett - who even played (seriously cutting edge,a female No 1) the original No. 1 in the pilot for TOS, and appeared in some shape or form in every subsequent series.

Not to mention she is the voice of the computer.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Not to mention she is the voice of the computer.

Among many other roles.

 

[GFLPraxis]

Okay.. time for a WTF post that has been bugging me for about 15 years.

for the most, Star Trek has been pretty fluent with the timelines (with the exception of when they intentionally wanted to screw with them: Time's Arrow, the Mobius, The Voyage Home, etc.). Best of Both Worlds provided the backstory to DS9's pilot, The Emmisary. Relics was even very plausible in the ST Universe. DS9 smoothly helped transition ST: Voyager in, as Voyager started its mission leaving DS9, searching for the Maquis, which Riker was one of them. So new series pilots with throwbacks/shoutouts to previous episodes.

Now, the WTF moment. There was no real mention of a Borg Queen until Star Trek: First Contact, which took place well after Voyager left DS9. IIRC, the Borg Queen gets destroyed in that movie (sorry for the spoiler, but it leads to the WTF moment), with her spine being broken..

So how, back in the Delta Quadrant in Voyager, is the Borg Queen alive again, and the main threat to Voyager towards the end of the series? And again, she gets destroyed in the finale of the series? IIRC, Voyager is still in the Delta Quadrant during First Contact, but I believe is back in the Alpha Quadrant by the time ST: Insurrection occurs, let alone ST: Nemesis.

To take it into the Transformers Generation One world (the original series), it's like Bumblebee being repaired and upgraded and takes on the name Goldbug, yet 3 episodes after that, you see Bumblebee in his original form again.

And the last part that bugs me, is that in Endgame (the Voyager series finale), the crew finally makes it home.. last you see is the ship flying towards Earth.. no story of what happens to the crew or anything outside of Janeway talking to Picard over a secure channel in a later movie, and being referred to as "Admiral Janeway". All the Maquis are gone, so what happens to the remaining Maquis who made up the Voyager crew? Did Paris see his father? Did Janeway see her husband again? They sorta "met" Barclay, who risked his career to find them, but a lot was left to the imagination, which lead to a poor ending..

BL.

The theory I've heard on this one is pretty simple: The Borg Queen is just a central terminal for the consciousness. Killing the Queen does not kill her; the Borg collective simply makes a new Queen.

However, it's arguable that she actually permanently died in Endgame, since she was killed by virus instead of physical death. A virus with root access could have crippled the Borg.

 

[bradl]

Not to mention she is the voice of the computer.

Earth: Final Conflict.

BL.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Earth: Final Conflict.

BL.

Sorry, I don't understand.

 

[bradl]

Sorry, I don't understand.

Majel spearheaded that series, starred in it, and produced it.

BL.

 

[mobilehaathi]

Majel spearheaded that series, starred in it, and produced it.

BL.

Ah, I wasn't aware of it, cool!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Sorry, I don't understand.

Neither do I.

Majel spearheaded that series, starred in it, and produced it.

BL.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[ActionableMango]

Worf states that it would take about 15 seconds for the probe to reach the star. That seemed quite fast for a chemical powered rocket which you see blast off.

Advanced futuristic chemicals!

Also since the light from our star takes 8 minutes to reach us, so would the absence of the sunlight and in the film the light goes out almost instantaneously.

Advanced futuristic speed of light! Oh, wait...

 

[SoggyCheese]

Advanced futuristic chemicals!

Advanced futuristic speed of light! Oh, wait...

The show does play a little bit loose with the science in places. There's an episode in the 2nd season where Data or Geordi, I forget which, claims a planet has a surface temperature of minus 290 degrees Celsius

 

[mobilehaathi]

The show does play a little bit loose with the science in places. There's an episode in the 2nd season where Data or Geordi, I forget which, claims a planet has a surface temperature of minus 290 degrees Celsius

A bit? Hehehe, I mean, it is science fiction.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The show does play a little bit loose with the science in places. There's an episode in the 2nd season where Data or Geordi, I forget which, claims a planet has a surface temperature of minus 290 degrees Celsius

A bit? Hehehe, I mean, it is science fiction.

Indeed, it is.

And the first two seasons of that series are now thirty (I'm shocked writing that - I remember watching them when they were first broadcast) years old; doubtless real science has made advances - or stressed knowledge - of the sort that would make it more improbable for such observations to be made in a science fiction show, even allowing for the fact that it is fiction (and can therefore there to different scientific rules, which, as long as they are more or less internally consistent within the parameters set by the series, don''t really matter otherwise).

 

[mobilehaathi]

Indeed, it is.

And the first two seasons of that series are now thirty (I'm shocked writing that - I remember watching them when they were first broadcast) years old; doubtless real science has made advances - or stressed knowledge - of the sort that would make it more improbable for such observations to be made in a science fiction show, even allowing for the fact that it is fiction (and can therefore there to different scientific rules, which, as long as they are more or less internally consistent within the parameters set by the series, don''t really matter otherwise).

Admittedly, even though I acknowledge the fiction and suspend my disbelief, I still bristle whenever they talk about things directly in my line of work...

Internal consistency is important, and they do a good job by and large, although not always.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Side note about O'Brien. He was the only person to be in the pilot episodes for every NG Series. He was the officer at the conn in the stardrive section of the Enterprise for Encounter at Farpoint, He transferred to DS9 in Emmisary, and was in the pilot with the preparations in Voyager's pilot episode, as Voyager left DS9 to search for Chakotay and Tuvok in the Badlands. Each one was Colm Meaney, as Miles O'Brien.

Interesting. I never knew that. Always liked Chief O'Brien.

 

[bradl]

Homework assignment for all of you.

1. Find a mason jar, and fill it with water.
   
2. Find some glitter, preferably silver glitter.
   
3. Find a lightbulb that is of the DAYLIGHT variant (5000K, not Soft White or Warm White.

Turn off all of the lights in the room. Turn on the daylight lightbulb and place it under the mason jar. Pour the glitter into the water-filled mason jar.​

Congratulations. You have recreated the Transporter Effect.

That isn't from me: that's how LeVar demonstrated the entire effect that they used on TNG in the Reading Rainbow episode The Bionic Bunny.

BL.

 

[Huntn]

Oh right, Mark Lenard did play Spock's father. I remember him best as the Romulan commander in TOS: Balance of Terror (the best TOS episode, IMO). I've re-watched that episode at least a dozen times. He was also the Klingon captain in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. I didn't know until the credits rolled.

Suzie Plakson played 4 different species: K'Ehleyr (Klingon), Dr Selar (Vulcan), a female Q (guess) and Tarah (Andorian).

Diana Muldaur played Dr Pulaski in TNG and a guest starred as two different characters episode of TOS, Miranda Jones and Ann Mulhall.

I looked up an answer why the STNG Doctor character shuffle and it appears one of the following: McFadden was pregnant; she had some disagreements about the character's development; or she complained about sexist plots in the show. We do knos that after Diana Muldaur decided to leave (?), they brought McFadden back. I liked both of these actresses, but my crush was on McFadden.