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steveash

macrumors 6502a
Aug 7, 2008
527
245
UK
Here's a list of all the times I've missed a shot due to a noisy shutter or having no AF points on the edge.
0.

You?

Hehe :D my old Hassy has one focus point and a mirror box like a barn door but I still love it! The biggest benefit to mirrorless is the wysiwyg viewfinder (as long as you're not using flash) and how well it works with video. We'll see though I'm being open-minded.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
Hehe :D my old Hassy has one focus point and a mirror box like a barn door but I still love it! The biggest benefit to mirrorless is the wysiwyg viewfinder (as long as you're not using flash) and how well it works with video. We'll see though I'm being open-minded.
I get the benefits for video. But I don't really use video.
I also understand the benefits of silent shutters, it just doesn't feature very high on my lists of wants.
I generally don't shoot people, and I haven't been to a wedding in about 15 years.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
I've only been keeping up a little bit with this camera as I like my full frames, but I read that the Nikon mirrorless might accomodate a medium format sized sensor. That seems like kind of a big deal?
It is a big deal, Fuji essentially did this. But Fuji also sells mirrorless cameras with APS-C-sized sensors for people who aren't swimming in money and/or need such a large sensor for their job. So even if Nikon goes that route, they are not the first to take it.
What are the chances that Nikon hits it out of the park and Canon decides it has to start over? Now I don't think Nikon will do that but would Canon feel threatened enough to start over?
The chances are zero.
 
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kallisti

macrumors 68000
Apr 22, 2003
1,751
6,670
They've been talking about a z mount for months, so pretty sure that's a done deal.

I'll wait and see tbh. Still nobody can tell me why a mirrorless is better.
Weight but by the time you factor in extra batteries it doesn't make much difference.
[doublepost=1532365480][/doublepost]
All the pro's do! ;)

For tripod work DSLR vs mirrorless may not really matter in general (assuming your DSLR and/or mirrorless have rear LCDs that can be tilted, which has been a game changer for me).

Mirrorless works better for me for non-tripod work. You don't have to mess with lens calibration if using AF--a good EVF is exponentially better than an OVF regarding focus if you are composing using a view finder and not Live View since focus is coming from what the sensor sees. For people pics, Sony's Eye AF beats the crap out of anything I can get with my Nikon D850 regardless of focus settings on the Nikon. Sony just nails it almost every time. Nikon, not so much. Much, much higher keeper rate related to sharpness with my son as the subject using my A7R3 compared to my D810 (or now D850).

Different tools with different strengths and weaknesses. But mirrorless (at least my Sony A7R3) has very real advantages compared to any of my Nikon DSLRs for some applications. On the other hand, there are things my Nikons can do better than my Sony. ISO 64 for landscape work is awesome and Sony doesn't have any TS lens options (though with the possible exception of the 19mm, Nikon isn't exactly class leading in the TS lens space...).

Your comment about weight is slightly off, at least regarding the A7R3. I've never gotten below 50% on a single battery with walk about shooting for a day or for shooting sessions of a particular scene even relying on Live View exclusively for the shoot.

On the other hand, once you factor in lenses the weight difference can vanish. 24-70 f/2.8 or 70-200 f/2.8 zooms are roughly equal regarding weight between Sony and Nikon. On the other hand, the Batis primes are quite light, have exceptional IQ, and have AF. Depending on focal length, Nikon primes are so-so performers and you need to turn to Zeiss (or Sigma) for really good IQ to match the sensor capabilities of the D850 (Art lens line for Sigma, Milvus or Otus line for Zeiss).

I'm not sure how I feel about a potential Nikon mirrorless. The rumors are stating that it will have F-mount compatibility, but after using my new D850 I've discovered that most of my older Nikon lenses just don't have acceptable IQ when used with a camera having a high resolution sensor--they weren't designed for that use and it shows. There are exceptions (and they are lenses that are either niche or focal lengths that I regularly shoot on a tripod) which made the D850 worthwhile for me. Depending on actual performance using an F-mount adapter, a Nikon mirrorless might make sense for me. Or depending on the IQ of the lenses released on the Z-mount. Will have to see.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
For tripod work DSLR vs mirrorless may not really matter in general (assuming your DSLR and/or mirrorless have rear LCDs that can be tilted, which has been a game changer for me).

Mirrorless works better for me for non-tripod work. You don't have to mess with lens calibration if using AF--a good EVF is exponentially better than an OVF regarding focus if you are composing using a view finder and not Live View since focus is coming from what the sensor sees. For people pics, Sony's Eye AF beats the crap out of anything I can get with my Nikon D850 regardless of focus settings on the Nikon. Sony just nails it almost every time. Nikon, not so much. Much, much higher keeper rate related to sharpness with my son as the subject using my A7R3 compared to my D810 (or now D850).

Different tools with different strengths and weaknesses. But mirrorless (at least my Sony A7R3) has very real advantages compared to any of my Nikon DSLRs for some applications. On the other hand, there are things my Nikons can do better than my Sony. ISO 64 for landscape work is awesome and Sony doesn't have any TS lens options (though with the possible exception of the 19mm, Nikon isn't exactly class leading in the TS lens space...).

Your comment about weight is slightly off, at least regarding the A7R3. I've never gotten below 50% on a single battery with walk about shooting for a day or for shooting sessions of a particular scene even relying on Live View exclusively for the shoot.

On the other hand, once you factor in lenses the weight difference can vanish. 24-70 f/2.8 or 70-200 f/2.8 zooms are roughly equal regarding weight between Sony and Nikon. On the other hand, the Batis primes are quite light, have exceptional IQ, and have AF. Depending on focal length, Nikon primes are so-so performers and you need to turn to Zeiss (or Sigma) for really good IQ to match the sensor capabilities of the D850 (Art lens line for Sigma, Milvus or Otus line for Zeiss).

I'm not sure how I feel about a potential Nikon mirrorless. The rumors are stating that it will have F-mount compatibility, but after using my new D850 I've discovered that most of my older Nikon lenses just don't have acceptable IQ when used with a camera having a high resolution sensor--they weren't designed for that use and it shows. There are exceptions (and they are lenses that are either niche or focal lengths that I regularly shoot on a tripod) which made the D850 worthwhile for me. Depending on actual performance using an F-mount adapter, a Nikon mirrorless might make sense for me. Or depending on the IQ of the lenses released on the Z-mount. Will have to see.
My D750 has a tilting screen and yes that can be very useful.
But I find the calibration of my lenses just fine for me. I've never noticed a lens needing fine tuning. Now that could just be I'm an amateur who is lucky enough to shoot pro glass.
For macro work focus peaking could be useful, but AF generally nails what I want it to. If it doesn't it's usually the muppet behind the camera that screwed up rather than the camera! I've tried evf and it just feels odd to me. Like watching a tv from 5 mm away.
I don't have a fast moving child to shoot so eye AF is unlikely to ever appeal to me. Unless it works in small birds.

I'm hoping Nikon get it right because the company needs it to be a success. But for me I'll just wait and see. No rush to switch systems.
[doublepost=1533440411][/doublepost]
Interesting video speculating on whats coming....

Interesting watch. I do wonder given the cost of R&D if we will see a camera manufacturer go to the wall soon.
Because let's face it, DSLR or mirrorless are all chasing a diminishing market as more and more people decide a camera phone is good enough.
Interesting video on the BBC I saw yesterday
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/enter...tor-wim-wenders-hits-out-at-phone-photography
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
Interesting reading from a NR pole. Going to be a fun week anyway. Bring on the 23rd.

Screen Shot 2018-08-19 at 14.26.06.png
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
If I were answering that question, I'd probably indicate "Still Not Sure...." I like both!! EVFs have improved over the years, but yes, it does require a bit of acclimatization when one is used to an optical VF. One thing I really love with mirrorless is "focus peaking," which is especially useful when doing macro work and manually focusing. I don't bother with Eye AF, as I don't shoot that many people or do portraits so it isn't really that important to me. I'm not sure how effective it would be in shooting animals or birds, such as BIF or one sitting on a branch. Sony's tracking system for following a BIF is pretty good, from what I've read -- haven't tried it myself.

Yes, I imagine a lot of people are eagerly awaiting Nikon's Big Reveal on the 23rd!! They've been teasing us for quite a while now, time to finally learn what they've been working on behind the scenes.....
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
I am curious to see what the battery life will be like, because that is my biggest gripe with my Fuji X100s and all other large sensor non-dslr cameras I have owned to date.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
It's like using LV all the time. It soon runs the battery down. I always take a spare out with my D750 but I think I only used it once.
I understand the technical reasons, and I don't expect mirrorless cameras to match a dslr's battery life. (I once did ~1,500 shots on a single charge on my D7000 whereas my X100s manages between 200-250 per battery.) But if they'd double it, that'd go a long way for me. (I would not longer have to bring spare batteries with me.)
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
I understand the technical reasons, and I don't expect mirrorless cameras to match a dslr's battery life. (I once did ~1,500 shots on a single charge on my D7000 whereas my X100s manages between 200-250 per battery.) But if they'd double it, that'd go a long way for me. (I would not longer have to bring spare batteries with me.)
Well it's rare for me to shoot as many as 200 shots on a outing, but of course it does depend on your subject and style.
 

OreoCookie

macrumors 68030
Apr 14, 2001
2,727
90
Sendai, Japan
Well it's rare for me to shoot as many as 200 shots on a outing, but of course it does depend on your subject and style.
You are right, most of the time I stay below 200. But the relatively low number of shots becomes a problem when coupled with a the ridiculously unhelpful battery indicator: it either shows full, middle, low or red. And middle already means that in a few minutes the battery is gone. Hence, I rarely charge the battery in advance when I should: after all, it still shows full.

My D7000 has a much more fine grained and helpful battery indicator. Even if it shows 1/3 full, I'll be fine unless I am going on a long trip or am at a wedding or so.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
You are right, most of the time I stay below 200. But the relatively low number of shots becomes a problem when coupled with a the ridiculously unhelpful battery indicator: it either shows full, middle, low or red. And middle already means that in a few minutes the battery is gone. Hence, I rarely charge the battery in advance when I should: after all, it still shows full.

My D7000 has a much more fine grained and helpful battery indicator. Even if it shows 1/3 full, I'll be fine unless I am going on a long trip or am at a wedding or so.
Good to know. You'd think they could show a % like on your iPhone. Much more useful.
 

mollyc

macrumors G3
Aug 18, 2016
8,065
50,762
I have no desire for one, but wonder if the wait time for one of these is going to be as bad or worse than the wait for a D850, which are still have a several week wait.
 
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kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I have no desire for one, but wonder if the wait time for one of these is going to be as bad or worse than the wait for a D850, which are still have a several week wait.

I wouldn't touch it until the first firmware update is released..... - no that isnt me saying I am getting one btw
 

kenoh

macrumors 604
Jul 18, 2008
6,507
10,850
Glasgow, UK
I know where your heart lies!

Why do you want to see me in such pain?

Actually an M10 would be fine... the P doesnt add anything I am particularly excited about. Quiet shutter is already quiet on M10, touchscreen is just something for my nose to mess with as I am left eye dominant so I always select stuff on touchscreens with my nose.
 
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