Start of marketing for Nikon mirrorless FF

[Apple fanboy]

Why do you want to see me in such pain?

Actually an M10 would be fine... the P doesnt add anything I am particularly excited about. Quiet shutter is already quiet on M10, touchscreen is just something for my nose to mess with as I am left eye dominant so I always select stuff on touchscreens with my nose.

Probably due to the size of it!

And I'm not the one putting your in pain! Its Mrs Kenoh who is denying you your simple pleasures! I mean a man should be able to buy a new camera system every month with out too much complaining from his other half shouldn't he?

 

[kenoh]

Probably due to the size of it!

And I'm not the one putting your in pain! Its Mrs Kenoh who is denying you your simple pleasures! I mean a man should be able to buy a new camera system every month with out too much complaining from his other half shouldn't he?

No, they shouldn't ! (She was watching)

 

[Clix Pix]

.....And the excitement builds:

breaking-the-first-leaked-press-photo-of-the-nikon-z6-and-z7-mirrorless-cameras.aspx

 

[Apple fanboy]

.....And the excitement builds:

breaking-the-first-leaked-press-photo-of-the-nikon-z6-and-z7-mirrorless-cameras.aspx

I bet they are seeing some impressive visitor numbers!

Must resist, must resist....!

 

[Clix Pix]

I eyeballed the lenses and thought, "aw, gee, no macro lenses yet!" and then took a look at that adapter.... Hm.... My beloved macro lenses might find a home on there.....

Tomorrow is the big day and of course a lot of us are going to be interested in the pricing, too. What will really tell the tale is when the cameras and lenses are actually in the hands of users and reviewers, so that there are some real-time, real-life images out there.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I eyeballed the lenses and thought, "aw, gee, no macro lenses yet!" and then took a look at that adapter.... Hm.... My beloved macro lenses might find a home on there.....

Tomorrow is the big day and of course a lot of us are going to be interested in the pricing, too. What will really tell the tale is when the cameras and lenses are actually in the hands of users and reviewers, so that there are some real-time, real-life images out there.

Agreed. Macro is a BIG thing for me

[doublepost=1534961173][/doublepost]Oh and £3399 body only for the Z7 in the UK

 

[kenoh]

Agreed. Macro is a BIG thing for me

[doublepost=1534961173][/doublepost]Oh and £3399 body only for the Z7 in the UK

And it looks an awful lot Sony Z7 ish too..... *edit* I meant A7 of course....

So are we into the realms of Panasonic/Leica now where we have Sony making both but the Nikon is a pimped out version? So Z6 is a Sony A7III and a Z7 is the A7RIII tweaked?

 

[Apple fanboy]

And it looks an awful lot Sony Z7 ish too..... *edit* I meant A7 of course....

What were you expecting? a weird red dot?

tbh there is only so much you can do with a mirror(less) box.

 

[kenoh]

What were you expecting? a weird red dot?

tbh there is only so much you can do with a mirror(less) box.

Yeah but you bit.....

I know, there is a limit but they do look spookily alike you have to admit that

 

[Clix Pix]

That's my guess, too, that Nikon is aiming at Sony's A7RIII and the A7III.... Maybe to keep current Nikon users from drifting away and defecting to Sony, which has already occurred the past couple of years in many cases, and maybe to thumb their nose at Canon, who hasn't yet entered the mirrorless fray...... Being able to use the adapter for one's present collection of Nikon lenses is an attractive lure, but, will the adapter really work well so that the lenses still produce high-quality images as they do on their native F mount? Could I slap the adapter and my 105mm macro on one of the new camera bodies and get as pleasing results as I would with a Nikon DSLR body? I am not keen on using adapters, so I definitely will be paying close attention to reports about that in particular.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah but you bit.....

I know, there is a limit but they do look spookily alike you have to admit that

Agree.
[doublepost=1534966023][/doublepost]

That's my guess, too, that Nikon is aiming at Sony's A7RIII and the A7III.... Maybe to keep current Nikon users from drifting away and defecting to Sony, which has already occurred the past couple of years in many cases, and maybe to thumb their nose at Canon, who hasn't yet entered the mirrorless fray...... Being able to use the adapter for one's present collection of Nikon lenses is an attractive lure, but, will the adapter really work well so that the lenses still produce high-quality images as they do on their native F mount? Could I slap the adapter and my 105mm macro on one of the new camera bodies and get as pleasing results as I would with a Nikon DSLR body? I am not keen on using adapters, so I definitely will be paying close attention to reports about that in particular.

But if the prices leaked are correct, £3399 vs £1999 is a big difference. I think they might struggle to convince people that's the way to go.
Especially if you have to update your lenses. Sony already has a good range of glass available.
So it's going to be either

1. Buy the Nikon plus adapter and continue to use your existing glass
2. Buy the Nikon and buy the new Nikon lenses as they are released.
3. Buy the Sony.

I guess it will come down to reviews and what the lens roadmap looks like plus costings.

Or
4. Keep your DSLR and glass.

 

[Clix Pix]

For me, there is still the niggling thought that this is something new and untried by Nikon, whereas Sony already has a good start on the market, has been delivering full-frame mirrorless camera bodies and native lenses for some time now and they are continuing to expand their offerings in lenses. In addition to that, third-party manufacturers also are producing E-moun for APS-C cameras and FE-mount lenses for Sony full-frame cameras, too, which broadens the lens base considerably, providing more choices for the consumer at different price levels.

There is also the question of how well those native F-mount lenses, especially the older ones, are actually going to work on the adapter and with the highly-sophisticated electronics of the mirrorless body. The lens which produces a wonderful image on a D3, for instance, may look like crap on the new mirrorless cameras. Some people have already noticed this to a certain extent with Nikon's most recent high-end DSLRs. Who wants to plunk down $$$$ on a new camera and then have their lenses not really all that great in terms of resolving power and image quality after all so that then they're pretty much forced into buying new lenses and at this point, there are only three from which to choose....!!??!!

Happily for me I am in no rush so am going to keep an eye on things tomorrow and over the next few weeks or months as Nikon rolls out the cameras and the lenses and people begin using them, shooting with them in all kinds of situations, all kinds of lighting conditions, weather conditions, etc.

 

[Apple fanboy]

For me, there is still the niggling thought that this is something new and untried by Nikon, whereas Sony already has a good start on the market, has been delivering full-frame mirrorless camera bodies and native lenses for some time now and they are continuing to expand their offerings in lenses. In addition to that, third-party manufacturers also are producing E-moun for APS-C cameras and FE-mount lenses for Sony full-frame cameras, too, which broadens the lens base considerably, providing more choices for the consumer at different price levels.

There is also the question of how well those native F-mount lenses, especially the older ones, are actually going to work on the adapter and with the highly-sophisticated electronics of the mirrorless body. The lens which produces a wonderful image on a D3, for instance, may look like crap on the new mirrorless cameras. Some people have already noticed this to a certain extent with Nikon's most recent high-end DSLRs. Who wants to plunk down $$$$ on a new camera and then have their lenses not really all that great in terms of resolving power and image quality after all so that then they're pretty much forced into buying new lenses and at this point, there are only three from which to choose....!!??!!

Happily for me I am in no rush so am going to keep an eye on things tomorrow and over the next few weeks or months as Nikon rolls out the cameras and the lenses and people begin using them, shooting with them in all kinds of situations, all kinds of lighting conditions, weather conditions, etc.

Exactly. Wait and see is my approach too. The only downside is the ever plummeting prices of old F mount gear.
But I think I should get my £150 back I paid for a 70-200 mm f2.8 VR.

 

[OreoCookie]

Exactly. Wait and see is my approach too. The only downside is the ever plummeting prices of old F mount gear.

That's not necessarily a bad thing: I have no intention to get rid of my dslr gear now, and would be happy to get lenses at a discount.

But I think I should get my £150 back I paid for a 70-200 mm f2.8 VR.

150 £ for a 70-200 f/2.8?!? I hope it was not fallen off a truck :lol:
Seriously, how did you manage to get that kind of bargain?

That's my guess, too, that Nikon is aiming at Sony's A7RIII and the A7III.... Maybe to keep current Nikon users from drifting away and defecting to Sony, which has already occurred the past couple of years in many cases, and maybe to thumb their nose at Canon, who hasn't yet entered the mirrorless fray......

In the grand scheme of things, now that the specs have leaked, what sets Nikon's offerings apart? The camera design is dslr-like, albeit smaller. There is in-body image stabilization, although in principle Nikon could equip its dslrs with that, too. The Z-mount's diameter seems larger than the F-mounts, which could help with lens design and allows for F-mount compatibility.* But I don't see any huge advantage over Nikon's dslr offerings or other manufacturers's mirrorless cameras. Lastly, Nikon doesn't seem to be aggressive with its pricing either. Both cameras are quite expensive. Overall, it looks like a very conservative launch, and at least in me the want is weak.

What am I missing?

* F-mount compatibility in my mind is not so much a plus over Sony's mirrorless cameras, but a necessity to bridge the gap until Nikon has a more fully featured Z-mount line-up.

 

[MacNut]

As someone who is looking to dive in fresh to a mirrorless system I’m aiming towards Sony unless Nikon can woo me. Right now I don’t see enough from Nikon to say, look at us pay no attention to what Sony has.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That's not necessarily a bad thing: I have no intention to get rid of my dslr gear now, and would be happy to get lenses at a discount.

150 £ for a 70-200 f/2.8?!? I hope it was not fallen off a truck :lol:
Seriously, how did you manage to get that kind of bargain?

In the grand scheme of things, now that the specs have leaked, what sets Nikon's offerings apart? The camera design is dslr-like, albeit smaller. There is in-body image stabilization, although in principle Nikon could equip its dslrs with that, too. The Z-mount's diameter seems larger than the F-mounts, which could help with lens design and allows for F-mount compatibility.* But I don't see any huge advantage over Nikon's dslr offerings or other manufacturers's mirrorless cameras. Lastly, Nikon doesn't seem to be aggressive with its pricing either. Both cameras are quite expensive. Overall, it looks like a very conservative launch, and at least in me the want is weak.

What am I missing?

* F-mount compatibility in my mind is not so much a plus over Sony's mirrorless cameras, but a necessity to bridge the gap until Nikon has a more fully featured Z-mount line-up.

Through work. We supplied lease equipment to the MOD. At the end of the four years they came back and work sold them off very cheaply. And because we had about 30 copies of each, I was able to cherry pick the best ones!
Most of my signature came that way.
Sadly it doesn't work like that now.
[doublepost=1535000854][/doublepost]

As someone who is looking to dive in fresh to a mirrorless system I’m aiming towards Sony unless Nikon can woo me. Right now I don’t see enough from Nikon to say, look at us pay no attention to what Sony has.

From a purely pricing point of view, I can definitely see the attraction if you have to legacy glass.

 

[OreoCookie]

As someone who is looking to dive in fresh to a mirrorless system I’m aiming towards Sony unless Nikon can woo me. Right now I don’t see enough from Nikon to say, look at us pay no attention to what Sony has.

IMHO the biggest underestimated factor is the UI concept, that'll have a way bigger impact on how you shoot than individual points in a feature chart. I have tried many Sony cameras over the years and I always disliked the UI of the non-dslrs — especially their big mirrorless cameras. Once you put on a fancy lens, especially a tele zoom, the grip provides way too little, well, grip. I prefer Fujis, their UI makes sense to me. And the Nikon looks well-thought out, too.

 

[kenoh]

Also Nikon customer service is better than Sony so these pros who wont go Sony for that reason now have an option.

I think this is quite compelling and pricing wise it puts the Z6 and 7 square in the face of Sony.

As long as the F mount adapter doesnt need glass in it then I think the old lenses will be great the same as Sony A mounts are on the A7 series.

It would be a disaster if Nikon couldnt cou an adapter to work on their own cameras. Unlike Metabones getting Canon glass on a Sony to work.

 

[steveash]

Just had a look at the new cameras. They look like good solid designs if not ground-breaking. They should plug the leak of users moving over to Sony and answer the need for a mirrorless camera with better ergonomics. Can't see many feeling the need to swap their D850/750s for one though.

It seems to go in waves of which camera maker is leading the field. It's not that long ago though that Nikon users were stuck with the 12MP D700 and Sony had the rather lovely but flawed A900 while Canon raced ahead with the 5DII. Now its gone the other way.

 

[mollyc]

The Canon 5DII was a horrible camera. I sold mine and moved to a Nikon D700, which was a few years old at the time (model wise - I bought a new camera. And all new lenses. Boy was my husband happy when I talked to him about that idea).

I know that Canon eventually fixed their AF system, but you could not pay me to switch back to Canon.

 

[steveash]

The Canon 5DII was a horrible camera. I sold mine and moved to a Nikon D700, which was a few years old at the time (model wise - I bought a new camera. And all new lenses. Boy was my husband happy when I talked to him about that idea).

I know that Canon eventually fixed their AF system, but you could not pay me to switch back to Canon.

Yes, it did have its share of problems but the sensor and video capabilities were ground-breaking at the time. The Sony A7 Series of cameras are not without their flaws too, despite being disruptive. Either way, it seems that Nikon is now top dog for a while, at least for full-frame cameras.

 

[MacNut]

Only 1 memory card slot seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[Clix Pix]

Thom Hogan, who does a lot of writing about Nikon and its products, weighs in on the adapter:

https://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/nikon-f-mount-adapter.html

In a nutshell (from the article):

"So how did Nikon do with their adapter? Did they create the perfect adapter?

• AI/AI-S — No.
• Mechanical aperture activation — Yes.
• Full electrical pass thru — Yes.
• Screw drive focus motor — No. Not supported. This means that D-type lenses that aren't AF-S or AF-I are not supported for autofocus. So, AF-I, AF-S, and AF-P autofocus lenses are supported, but older versions of autofocus lenses aren't.
• Electronic aperture activation — Yes. The new mount is also electronic aperture activation in design, so this was an easy pickup.
• All-electronic AF-P lens communication — Yes."

[doublepost=1535041424][/doublepost]Another article, this one specifically comparing the Sony A7III and the new Nikon Z6:

https://photographylife.com/nikon-z6-vs-sony-a7-iii

 

[MacNut]

Thom Hogan, who does a lot of writing about Nikon and its products, weighs in on the adapter:

https://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/nikon-f-mount-adapter.html

In a nutshell (from the article):

"So how did Nikon do with their adapter? Did they create the perfect adapter?

• AI/AI-S — No.
• Mechanical aperture activation — Yes.
• Full electrical pass thru — Yes.
• Screw drive focus motor — No. Not supported. This means that D-type lenses that aren't AF-S or AF-I are not supported for autofocus. So, AF-I, AF-S, and AF-P autofocus lenses are supported, but older versions of autofocus lenses aren't.
• Electronic aperture activation — Yes. The new mount is also electronic aperture activation in design, so this was an easy pickup.
• All-electronic AF-P lens communication — Yes."

[doublepost=1535041424][/doublepost]Another article, this one specifically comparing the Sony A7III and the new Nikon Z6:

https://photographylife.com/nikon-z6-vs-sony-a7-iii

How soon does Sony counter with the A7Siii.

 

[Clix Pix]

Sony's current A7III is still very difficult to get, back-ordered in many places, so I am not so sure that they will rush out with the A7IIIs .....