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Mac.World

macrumors 68000
Jan 9, 2011
1,819
1
In front of uranus
Wrong, there were lengthy discussions about it....and despite our discussions AT&T still changed the definition....and Apple went along with them. What's done is done and there is nothing we can do about it. You're just very late to the discussion.

You are right. There were lengthy discussions between at&t and Apple about turning the 3g icon into a 4g icon, and at&t letting apple claim (for sales purposes) that it was on 4g. No one in the industry calls hspa+,"4G". Apple got in trouble for doing this outside of the US with the new ipad.
And do you know another reason why Apple hasn't been putting real 4g/LTE into its phones and ipad? Samsung owns many of those 4g patents. Karma is a bitch, and it's coming around on Apple.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
You are right. There were lengthy discussions between at&t and Apple about turning the 3g icon into a 4g icon, and at&t letting apple claim (for sales purposes) that it was on 4g. No one in the industry calls hspa+,"4G". Apple got in trouble for doing this outside of the US with the new ipad.
And do you know another reason why Apple hasn't been putting real 4g/LTE into its phones and ipad? Samsung owns many of those 4g patents. Karma is a bitch, and it's coming around on Apple.

I meant discussions on this board. We discussed this at length a year ago.

Actually, Samsung's patent has nothing to do with it. Apple and Samsung both license tech from each other all the time (the obvious patents in the lawsuit not withstanding). If Apple wanted to place LTE in the 4S, they would have. And for the new iPhone, they'll just pay the licensing fees to Samsung if necessary. Or perhaps they'll just risk it and hope for the best. If Samsung sues and they lose, I guess Samsung will get part of their $1B back. :D

But to make up crap and say Apple skipped LTE over Samsung patents would be completely ignoring history and reality.
 

Vegastouch

macrumors 603
Jul 12, 2008
6,185
992
Las Vegas, NV
That makes no sense. Despite the fact that some people are uninformed, your rant will change nothing that AT&T has already done (twist the definition of 4G for their marketing purposes). Your rants are accomplishing nothing and are pointless. None of it will matter in a few weeks anyway. Wasting your time.

All i did was make a statement that was TRUE. Hardly a rant. And no it wont matter here soon and the point was, Android has had it for about two years already and you will get it in a month or so. Not sure when it will be released to the public but yeah, it will be soon.
 

Mac.World

macrumors 68000
Jan 9, 2011
1,819
1
In front of uranus
I meant discussions on this board. We discussed this at length a year ago.

Actually, Samsung's patent has nothing to do with it. Apple and Samsung both license tech from each other all the time (the obvious patents in the lawsuit not withstanding). If Apple wanted to place LTE in the 4S, they would have. And for the new iPhone, they'll just pay the licensing fees to Samsung if necessary. Or perhaps they'll just risk it and hope for the best. If Samsung sues and they lose, I guess Samsung will get part of their $1B back. :D

But to make up crap and say Apple skipped LTE over Samsung patents would be completely ignoring history and reality.

I never said Samsung's 4g patents was the only reason Apple couldn't add it to the 4S. But one of the factors. Apple wouldn't have had time to build the 4S and skirt passed all of Samsung's patents or risk Samsung stalling on licensing fees and risk pushing a release back even further. The rest had to do with the iphone incapable of handling LTE and have the battery last more than an hour. Battery life was already sub-par.

And I didn't know you were a patent attorney and worked as a senior executive for both apple and Samsung. How do you make time for this board? Glad you can tell us that all of Samsung's 4g patents will just be licensed to Apple. I was worried for a moment.

P. S. Getting back to the 4g indicator on the iphone, Apple's own release notes for iOS 5.1 in this regard were quite coy: they only say "Updated AT&T network indicator," with nothing specifically about 4g. This is fact. Please don't try and rewrite history.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
All i did was make a statement that was TRUE. Hardly a rant. And no it wont matter here soon and the point was, Android has had it for about two years already and you will get it in a month or so. Not sure when it will be released to the public but yeah, it will be soon.

Wrong, this statement was untrue.


Nobody has said a thing about AT&T qualifying for the 4G or the HSPA+ name.

And the Thunderbolt was released March 2011....hardly 2 years. Battery life sucked too.

Apple is never on the bleeding edge, for good reason. iPhone users know this and are fine with it. To criticize them for it is to deny reality which is that it is a conscious decision by Apple that we as their customers accept. Those that want to be on the bleeding edge should be on Android and expect all it's risks that come with owning bleeding edge devices. They should also accept the decision of others to NOT be on that bleeding edge with them. So accept it, stop criticizing, buy an Android and hang out in the Android forums discussing how cool the latest and greatest features are. I won't hold it against you if you do, I promise not to troll the Android forums as you discuss how great your S3 is.

----------

I never said Samsung's 4g patents was the only reason Apple couldn't add it to the 4S. But one of the factors.

There's no reason at all to believe this is true. If you have something more than a guess to back it up, please do so.

----------

The rest had to do with the iphone incapable of handling LTE and have the battery last more than an hour. Battery life was already sub-par.

Sub-par compared to what? Got some comparison charts to back that statement up? Outside of the Droid Maxx with a crappy screen, I seem to recall it beat or was on par with every Android phone with a similar feature set.

----------

And I didn't know you were a patent attorney and worked as a senior executive for both apple and Samsung. How do you make time for this board? Glad you can tell us that all of Samsung's 4g patents will just be licensed to Apple. I was worried for a moment.

Haha, as if it takes an attorney to know that they can license a patent. Even you mention it in your reply. I do have friends that work for Samsung and are involved with the business partnerships with Apple, so I do have a bit of an inside source. I know certain business units within Samsung rely on the sales and licensing of technology to Apple to continue being successful. They will do business with Apple when it suits their needs (makes them money).

P. S. Getting back to the 4g indicator on the iphone, Apple's own release notes for iOS 5.1 in this regard were quite coy: they only say "Updated AT&T network indicator," with nothing specifically about 4g. This is fact. Please don't try and rewrite history.

Not sure what point you are trying to get at here. Certainly nothing I have said denies this in any way. I never agreed or liked AT&T calling HSPA+ 4G and was disappointed Apple went along with it.
 
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GKDAIR

macrumors regular
Oct 4, 2011
230
4
Typical Android Defense Squad Topic.


The iphone 5 will sell like hotcakes. Everybody knows this.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
Guys

The point is by the definition of 4G the AT&T HSPA+ network qualifies for the name.

Not really. By the original definition set forth by the ITU, 4G is supposed to be 1 Gbit/sec. However, there is no real enforcement for this so T-Mobile said screw it and called their HSPA+ 4G. AT&T then followed. The ITU was basically backed into a corner and eventually recognized them as "a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities".

Truth be told, current versions of LTE don't meet the original definition either. So LTE as it is today is also "FauxG".

But yeah, it's only considered 4G because T-Mobile and AT&T pushed the definition of the standard to include it. That wasn't originally the case.
 
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nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,542
406
Middle Earth
Not really. By the original definition set forth by the ITU, 4G is supposed to be 1 Gbit/sec. However, there is no real enforcement for this so T-Mobile said screw it and called their HSPA+ 4G. AT&T ten followed. The ITU was basically backed into a corner and eventually recognized them as "a substantial level of improvement in performance and capabilities".

Truth be told, current versions of LTE don't meet the original definition either. So LTE as it is today is also "FauxG".

But yeah, it's only considered 4G because T-Mobile and AT&T pushed the definition of the standard to include it. That wasn't originally the case.

The definition of 4G is nebulous at best isn't it? At least with HD resolution you know you have two ratified resolutions (720 and 1080).

Vegastouch's argumentation is so flawed

"Android had LTE two years ago" yeah and what towers where they connected with. In my state Verizon didn't start rolling out LTE in force until this year.

Mac.World is hilarious. Apple's afraid of Samsung LTE patents. So that's why the iPad with LTE was banned ....no wait!

In the end I'd really like to know how anyone can comment on the state of Apple with doom and gloom.

Apple's stock is higher than ever.
Apple's patent portfolio is strong
Apple's mindshare is very high

The iPhone's success is not carrier driven. Apple doesn't rely on AT&T or Verizon pushing their phones.

iOS 6 doesn't have to be anything but a strong iteration of a OS that's mature and functional but needs some polish. It does set the stage for improved applications from developers and that's what is important to me. I'm not impressed by chrome that does little to improve my experience within apps.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
The definition of 4G is nebulous at best isn't it? At least with HD resolution you know you have two ratified resolutions (720 and

Well, there is a standards agency that did approve a set standard, but just like HD, manufacturers and carriers pushed the envelope and caused the standards agencies to adjust their definitions. (720P was not originally considered HD either). I blame the carriers and I wish Apple had taken a stand.

But I agree, to use this as a point to argue against the iPhone is childish. In fact, I keep wondering why they are here? Why do they care so much? Are we their loved ones they are trying to save from the evil clutches of Apple? Or perhaps like most trolls, they get off on stirring things up?

Edit: good point on the LTE iPad! Why did I miss that? Lol. Mac.World is delusional I think.

I would like to see a little design updates to iOS. But I won't die without it.
 

irDigital0l

Guest
Dec 7, 2010
2,901
0
State of Apple?

The best state Apple has ever been.

And no its just a bias opinion...if any other company had these instead of Apple I would be talking about them, but so far, none has.

-highest stock yet
-most valued company
-dominating tablet market
-record iphone, ipad, and mac sales
-excellent CEO and executive team post-Steve Jobs
-mind boggling number of retail stores around the world
-dominating chinese market
-have a clear path forward (ipad mini, apple tv, iOS and post OS X, etc.)
-billions in the bank
-dominating media hub, iTunes and third party apps store, App Store
-media hype beyond all other
-matured infrastructure (Microsoft trying to unify Windows 8 making it suck on PC, its good on tablets though)
-patent chest and patent/court wins again'st Android, Samsung, etc.
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,542
406
Middle Earth
Edit: good point on the LTE iPad! Why did I miss that? Lol. Mac.World is delusional I think.

Because you have a need to make sense and relating to Mac.World means temporally taking leave of your senses in an effort to understand what frequency he's transmitting on :D

I have no desire to see Android die. Just like I hated the thought of a Windows only world I wouldn't want an iOS only world either. But when it comes down to it i'm insulted that someone would try to sell me on the farcical idea that Android is going to become that dominant mobile OS.

I'm more than happy to see 3 or 4 vibrant mobile OS platforms working on solving today's computing problems in slightly differing ways.
 

Vegastouch

macrumors 603
Jul 12, 2008
6,185
992
Las Vegas, NV
Wrong, this statement was untrue.

No, it isnt!



And the Thunderbolt was released March 2011....hardly 2 years. Battery life sucked too.

Samsungs Galaxy S 4G was announced in Feb of 2011 so ok, not quite two years and im not sure if that was the first 4G phone but i dont think so.


Apple is never on the bleeding edge, for good reason.

Because they release a phone once a year and fall behind. And will continue to do so more each year.
iPhone users know this and are fine with it.

Many followers are, that is true. They(Apple) have a Greatful Dead type following but many DO mind it and they will lose phone customers because of it. The new iPhone i believe will sell well but i doubt it breaks records because of it being not big enough and the new iOS not being anything exciting.

To criticize them for it is to deny reality which is that it is a conscious decision by Apple that we as their customers accept. Those that want to be on the bleeding edge should be on Android and expect all it's risks that come with owning bleeding edge devices. They should also accept the decision of others to NOT be on that bleeding edge with them. So accept it, stop criticizing, buy an Android and hang out in the Android forums discussing how cool the latest and greatest features are. I won't hold it against you if you do, I promise not to troll the Android forums as you discuss how great your S3 is.

----------


I dont care. Im not buying one and it doesnt matter to me which one they choose. I like Apple products but for my phone, they just dont cut it for me and havent since i tried my first Android two years ago. Two weeks in and learning what it can do and much more impressed than the iPhone that isnt up to par without jailbreaking it IMO.

And i wasnt criticizing, i was stating a fact. Dont let that cloud your mindset of feeling you need to post a bunch of sentimental crap about Apple fans just accept this and that :rolleyes: . The fact is, Apple fans will buy anything with a Apple logo on it whether or not it is improved much.
Case in point. I love the iMacs but the new model has barely an upgrade in the CPU speed at all. Less than half a GHz which will do really nothing noticable so why buy a new one? Just for some software? And they do that every year. That thing is good for 5 years at least and you will be fine..... and i dont care what forum to go to to express your opinion.

----------

The definition of 4G is nebulous at best isn't it? At least with HD resolution you know you have two ratified resolutions (720 and 1080).

Vegastouch's argumentation is so flawed

"Android had LTE two years ago" yeah and what towers where they connected with. In my state Verizon didn't start rolling out LTE in force until this year.

I never once said Android had LTE two years ago. In fact, i never said a thing about LTE. You are the one who is flawed.
 
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Calidude

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2010
1,730
0
And yet here you are constantly posting about your dislike of the iPhone and Apple. You're either angry with yourself, Apple, or all your friends that refuse to listen to you and keep buying iPhone. The real question is, why are you here? Do you have some sort of twisted notion that you're going to save the world from the awful clutches of Apple and the iPhone??
My friends are half iPhone, half Android. I just enjoy the debate. I couldn't care less that somebody uses the iPhone. I just wish to debate the notion that the iPhone is the most advanced phone.

Being an IT professional, working on my devices stopped being a hobby long ago. Instead of screwing around with my mobile devices and computers, I prefer they just work so I can spend more of my time taking photographs which I find much more fulfilling than making a custom theme for my smartphone. The iPhone fits my needs nicely. Just accept this and stop trolling this forum
This is the alternatives subforum. You'd have somewhat of a point if this were the iPhone forum, but it's not.

The question is, what are YOU doing here if you don't want to hear criticism of the iPhone?
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,542
406
Middle Earth
Apple is sufficiently advanced for the largest portion of the market. For those that need the ultimate in tweak there's JB and Android.

They biggest issue I see coming from consumers isn't a stale UI or even a small screen. It's the aggravation of dealing with security issues. It's juggling too many passwords and inevitably failing and being locked out of some service.

This is why Apple's purchase of Authentec should have raised more eyebrows. Apple could be working on a better solution for arguably one of the more persistent problems affecting all computer users.
 

Calidude

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2010
1,730
0
Apple is sufficiently advanced for the largest portion of the market. For those that need the ultimate in tweak there's JB and Android.

They biggest issue I see coming from consumers isn't a stale UI or even a small screen. It's the aggravation of dealing with security issues. It's juggling too many passwords and inevitably failing and being locked out of some service.
If Apple included a service like Lastpass/Keepass into its iCloud service and had every Apple user be able to store their passwords with iCloud and then put a hugely rock solid security interface on top of that where nobody could possibly get into your accounts without facing maybe 3-4 security checks, that would just make a world of difference to Apple users and would be a good way to keep customers in the Apple world.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
No, it isnt!

Yes, it is. We've discussed it. Despite the fact that you may not have been involved in the discussion, it was discussed in great depth a year ago on this forum.

Because they release a phone once a year and fall behind. And will continue to do so more each year.

That argument would make sense if they NEVER updated their features, but they do. I think you may be a little slow or something. Do you think they never added 3G also?

Many followers are, that is true. They(Apple) have a Greatful Dead type following but many DO mind it and they will lose phone customers because of it. The new iPhone i believe will sell well but i doubt it breaks records because of it being not big enough and the new iOS not being anything exciting.

Again, you seem to be ignoring history and reality. Recall how the first iPhone didn't have 3G? But it sold like crazy? I was one of the guys holding out for 3G, i even wrote a blog slamming Apple for it, yet here I am. And I'm a fraeking Windows guy, definitely not an Apple "Greatful Dead" type. But I recognized Apple updated the product and that it was good. Also, I no longer cared to be on the bleeding edge.

Believe me, I know, as I'm sure Apple does, that ther are customers that want bleeding edge. But look across Apple's product line and you'll see decisions they've made that show they are okay with letting go of those customers. They know that having a stable and quality product is better than trying to please everyone. Take one look at their sales and you'll see they've made the right decision. Apple may lose a few customers, but not enough to harm the bottom line. Besides, Samsung has to sell to SOMEBODY! :p

I dont care. Im not buying one and it doesnt matter to me which one they choose.

Unlike you, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. Enjoy whatever phone you want to buy. I won't criticize your choice. (Although you seem so determined to criticize mine and millions of others.)

And i wasnt criticizing, i was stating a fact.

What fact?

Dont let that cloud your mindset of feeling you need to post a bunch of sentimental crap about Apple fans just accept this and that :rolleyes: .

My mind is clear. I'm not the one trying to convince someone else their decision is wrong. No sentiments here. Heck, I used to work for MS and have buddies working at Samsung's mobile division (as well as others). I'm no Apple lover. But at this point in time their products (some of them) suit me well. I don't own their Mac line, but might buy one and load Windows on it....maybe.

The fact is, Apple fans will buy anything with a Apple logo on it whether or not it is improved much or not.

This is true, but why do care so much? (again, I'm not a part of that crowd)

Case in point. I love the iMacs but the new model has barely an upgrade in the CPU speed at all. Less than half a GHz which will do really nothing noticable so why buy a new one?

I would think you would buy a new one because your old computer no longer fits your needs. Not sure why Apple releasing a new model would be a part of that decision in any way. Windows PCs are updated all the time with very slight spec bumps. Do you attack them as well?

I never once said Android had LTE two years ago. In fact, i never said a thing about LTE. You are the one who is flawed.

Uh....re-read your second reply to me in your last post. You even admit t hasn't been 2 full years.

Edit: Here....
Android has had it for about two years already and you will get it in a month or so.

And we all know those 4G Android devices had much worse battery than the iPhone. For some it was worth it, but most complained. Complaints were all over the web about it at the time.
 
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Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
This is the alternatives subforum. You'd have somewhat of a point if this were the iPhone forum, but it's not.

The question is, what are YOU doing here if you don't want to hear criticism of the iPhone?

Good point, didn't realize what forum I was in when I made that statement. I should have made it in one of the other forums you've complained about the iPhone in. :rolleyes:

I think I followed you into this forum by mistake. Hahaha. I was reviewing all your trolling posts and ended up here.


And who here said the iPhone was the most advanced phone?
 

Calidude

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2010
1,730
0
Good point, didn't realize what forum I was in when I made that statement. I should have made it in one of the other forums you've complained about the iPhone in. :rolleyes:

I think I followed you into this forum by mistake. Hahaha. I was reviewing all your trolling posts and ended up here.
Yeah, it's not enough that we had to have a new subforum for all the dissenting opinions...you guys got bored of not having somebody to argue with anymore so you decided to come stalk us over here. :rolleyes:

If you want to come over here just to call me and others trolls for doing what we're supposed to be doing in here, then maybe you need to dealt with for trolling yourself, because you're the only one out of line here, pal.

And who here said the iPhone was the most advanced phone?
Just put a poll up asking "Is the iPhone the most advanced phone on the market" and see how many hundreds of "yes" votes you'd get.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
Yeah, it's not enough that we had to have a new subforum for all the dissenting opinions...you guys got bored of not having somebody to argue with anymore so you decided to come stalk us over here. :rolleyes:

If you want to come over here just to call me and others trolls for doing what we're supposed to be doing in here, then maybe you need to dealt with for trolling yourself, because you're the only one out of line here, pal.

Perhaps my last post was unclear, it was unintentional.

Just put a poll up asking "Is the iPhone the most advanced phone on the market" and see how many hundreds of "yes" votes you'd get.

That doesn't answer the question. It does show that you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Or, did someone really say it?
 

Vegastouch

macrumors 603
Jul 12, 2008
6,185
992
Las Vegas, NV
That argument would make sense if they NEVER updated their features, but they do. I think you may be a little slow or something. Do you think they never added 3G also?

They do, but not fast enough to keep up. They are slow at that. Im not talking just about 3G or 4G....that was just an example of them not even giving you something that is standard today and was when it was released. Maybe you are slow.



Again, you seem to be ignoring history and reality. Recall how the first iPhone didn't have 3G? But it sold like crazy?

It sold well but not compared to todays iPhones. It also didnt have copy and paste or MMS. Was awful they left those ouot because even a crap flip phone had MMS. Took over a year to get it. Two yeas maybe. I forget because i jailbroke mine and had it at least a year before the others did.

Unlike you, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. Enjoy whatever phone you want to buy. I won't criticize your choice. (Although you seem so determined to criticize mine and millions of others.)

I didnt critisize yours or anyone elses choice of phone. And i dont try to convince anybody to buy an Android. I always say buy what you like but i will debate someone when they come i and say nonsense without ever having one or who only had it for a day and took it back and had no clue of featurs to do things.
Happens all the time here. It is an adjustment gong to Android from iOS fater many years. It was for me and took me a good 2 weeks to adapt and learned more things it could do along the way.

My mind is clear. I'm not the one trying to convince someone else their decision is wrong. No sentiments here. Heck, I used to work for MS and have buddies working at Samsung's mobile division (as well as others). I'm no Apple lover. But at this point in time their products (some of them) suit me well. I don't own their Mac line, but might buy one and load Windows on it....maybe.

Show me where i told somebody their decision to buy a iPhone was wrong. I like them, they just dont do enough for ME without jailbreaking it......and i hate iTunes.


Uh....re-read your second reply to me in your last post. You even admit t hasn't been 2 full years.

Edit: Here....

I never said "LTE". I never said anything about LTE. I said 4G.

And we all know those 4G Android devices had much worse battery than the iPhone. For some it was worth it, but most complained. Complaints were all over the web about it at the time.

They did and that was frustrating but my old iPhone didnt have good battery life either. They seemed to fix it with the GS3 and the RAZR Maxx. Dont know about the HTC One X.
 

Calidude

macrumors 68000
Jun 22, 2010
1,730
0
Perhaps my last post was unclear, it was unintentional.
I didn't really care about the intention of your post. I just think you calling people trolls for criticizing iPhone in the Alternatives forum is ridiculous.


That doesn't answer the question. It does show that you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Or, did someone really say it?
Yes, people say it. I'm not going to find quotes for you when you can easily find out for yourself without people say it or think it.
 

Geckotek

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2008
8,808
342
NYC
I didn't really care about the intention of your post. I just think you calling people trolls for criticizing iPhone in the Alternatives forum is ridiculous.

I think you need to look up the meaning of unintentional. I didn't realize I was in the alternatives forum when I made that post. Therefore, it was an unintentional mistake.

And nobody I've seen in this forum ever has said the phrase "it's the most advanced".
 
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