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Steve Jobs Ranked 43rd on Forbes 400 List of Richest Americans
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tax write off.
and saying steve jobs doesn't contribute much if anything, is 20 times more ridiculous then calling gates a nothing. jobs is apple. if he wouldn't have been brought back ten years ago we probably wouldn't have the iPod or iPhone. and god knows what OSX would be like today if jobs wouldn't have been there to demand perfection. and from what i hear jobs has put his life into this new tablet.
wtf has gates done other then sit back and count his money?
wow, so without steve jobs you wouldn't have an ipod.
without bill gates you wouldn't have medicine to give to your child dying of AIDS.
...nice.
You guys are judging Gates and Jobs even you haven't talked or known them well. I feel like Windows guys say Mac is crap and Mac guys say Windows is crap. It's endless and there's no point. I'm using Mac and I love it, but there's no problem at all with Windows to me. If you said Gates is a thief, liar or something like that. It's just the way market works, he took his chance and turned it into one of the biggest company, it's fair enough. If it were me or you, we all did it. He "might" not be a creative person but he have been a superior business man. If you don't like to use Windows, then just leave it there and go and use Mac. We don't need to say it's crap, bullsh*t or everything about it. Really, think about it, you won't love to hear others judging you even they haven't met you for a second, so don't do it 
Now I know where all of my money is going
AT&T takes it from me, and then gives it's royalties to Apple, who in turn gives it to Steve Jobs.
AT&T takes it from me, and then gives it's royalties to Apple, who in turn gives it to Steve Jobs.
AIDS is incurable.
Bad analogy.
Without Steve Jobs, the visions at Xerox would of continued to wasted away under a management that didn't know what they had. They had Networking and OO-P as well. Yet it was never Xerox's name attached to them.
there is medicine to treat/prolong life of those infected with HIV/AIDS.
we are comparing an iPod/tech product to medical research affecting the lives of millions of people worldwide....give your argument a rest. Go to Africa and see if they give a crap about Xerox, blah blah networking.
Yes, I often think about what I have and what others have in contrast to people that are unable to have one meal and we spend, not bad in of itself, thousands of dollars on microchips, graphic cards, etc, all in cased in aluminum or plastic. Praise God that technology has made life better and creates jobs and all that but why is there still poverty????
Yep, without Steve Jobs you wouldn't an iPod ... then again you would have a Zune either, so it's debatable whether Steve Jobs' return was a good thing or not.
Sorry it came across wrong I was agreeing with you =)
I think people need to separate personal lives from their careers. Right now Bill and his wife created a foundation and pour BILLIONS into it in order to aid people around the globe. That hardly paints the personal life side of Bill as the 'antichrist' people make him out to be on here.
Are you really comparing AIDS research and treatment to XEROX? That starting a multi-billion dollar foundation to help underprivileged people is somehow less important than SJ's involvement with XEROX? AIDS is 'incurable' so let's just write them all off.. we have Snow Leopard Hurrah!!!
This is the saddest post I've ever read on here.
I'm not sure that we do...
Value for money is a subjective term - some people are willing to pay more than others and I think, generally, Apple hardware is more expensive than PC, but not by that much.
I have two main problems when it comes to shopping for a Mac:
1) Support is very poor in the UK - my Dell has a support package that includes 24/7 phone support and an engineer on site next day at a cost of £10 for 4 years on a £1,000 system - even though now the cost is as much as AppleCare, this kind of support is not available from Apple. With Apple you either (a) take it to a store and wait for a week to have it fixed or (b) if you live north of Glasgow and no where near a store you post it to a 3rd party who are authorised to do AppleCare repairs.
2) I've been looking at the high-end systems as photography is my main hobby - my MacBook really struggles with RAW format files from newer DSLRs, some of my images are in 28 megs and over. However, the iMac and Mac Pro don't have the same graphics capability as the PC market - it took so long for a GTX 295 to appear on the Mac side and now ATI have their HD 5800 series out - how long before I can put them in? And can I SLI/Crossfire? I play games too and would have a Windows partition for this purpose...
Back to the main point of this thread though - Apple is clearly doing well in what are tough economic times and are to be commended for it. They have no obligation to satisfy anyone except their shareholders, I know, and what they are doing clearly works well for them. It's just a bit of wishful thinking on my part that some of this would filter down to us users in some small way...
Not to mention that AIDS isn't "incurable" - it's just that we haven't found a cure yet. But there is so much research going on and there's stuff in the news every couple of months about some advance here or there... Maybe the next 10 years? Maybe 20? Who knows? I'm going to go back through this thread and see how AIDS managed to get mentioned here...
Value for money is a subjective term - some people are willing to pay more than others and I think, generally, Apple hardware is more expensive than PC, but not by that much.
I have two main problems when it comes to shopping for a Mac:
1) Support is very poor in the UK - my Dell has a support package that includes 24/7 phone support and an engineer on site next day at a cost of £10 for 4 years on a £1,000 system - even though now the cost is as much as AppleCare, this kind of support is not available from Apple. With Apple you either (a) take it to a store and wait for a week to have it fixed or (b) if you live north of Glasgow and no where near a store you post it to a 3rd party who are authorised to do AppleCare repairs.
2) I've been looking at the high-end systems as photography is my main hobby - my MacBook really struggles with RAW format files from newer DSLRs, some of my images are in 28 megs and over. However, the iMac and Mac Pro don't have the same graphics capability as the PC market - it took so long for a GTX 295 to appear on the Mac side and now ATI have their HD 5800 series out - how long before I can put them in? And can I SLI/Crossfire? I play games too and would have a Windows partition for this purpose...
Back to the main point of this thread though - Apple is clearly doing well in what are tough economic times and are to be commended for it. They have no obligation to satisfy anyone except their shareholders, I know, and what they are doing clearly works well for them. It's just a bit of wishful thinking on my part that some of this would filter down to us users in some small way...
Not to mention that AIDS isn't "incurable" - it's just that we haven't found a cure yet. But there is so much research going on and there's stuff in the news every couple of months about some advance here or there... Maybe the next 10 years? Maybe 20? Who knows? I'm going to go back through this thread and see how AIDS managed to get mentioned here...
The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that some are criticizing, primarily gives money to HIV/AIDS research in hard hit African countries, they also provide money needed for mosquito nets to prevent the spread of malaria.
It's certainly more relevant than 95% of what everyone else is saying. (Xerox???)
Sure. That certainly explains why there are usually no "better" alternatives to Microsoft products in the enterprise market and why the Microsoft BackOffice (read: server) products are the most versatile and best supported products that money can buy.
It most certainly also explains why even on the ah-so-great Mac OS X Microsoft Office has become the de facto standard for office products - and not Apple's iWork or the Open Source OpenOffice.org. Obviously, most people prefer to pay for Microsoft's "crappy" software instead of using something that they could get for free.
I have a bunch of Linux-based servers in our server room, and also several Windows Servers. In my experience, the Microsoft stuff "just works" while the Linux servers demand more support and maintenance and a royal pain to install and configure. And no, there are no Apple products in our server room. Why? Because Apple does not have any worth mentioning.
By the way: McDonald's food also is far from being cheap, too. You can actually get good - and even healthy - food for the price of a regular "meal" at McDonald's.
What cracks me up about this thread is all the people saying Gates made his fortune on "crap software" or by "stealing", while Steve Jobs makes things that "actually work."
Just a few points:
Bill Gates actually programs. Steve jobs doesn't. In fact he even ripped of Woz big time in the olden days. He is no saint. He simply gets people to do his bidding.
In many ways, Windows 7 stomps all over Snow Leopard, which is still not that fast and appears to be incredibly bug ridden. It simply does not "just work." What's sad about that is that their hardware configurations are VERY few, and they STILL have messed up some of their systems. This is frightening, and does not bode well for the future of the OS. They appear to be quickly becoming a phone and music player company first and foremost. Again, many areas where SL doesn't hold a candle to W7, unfortunately.
Certain apps like the finder are woefully inadequate. Why is Apple outdone by third party software like Path Finder? File management in OSX is a nightmare.
Apple makes a decent OS, but it's pretty bug ridden, and also quite dumbed down in a lot of ways. Very restrictive. They also write some BAD software. The iLife suite is complete garbage. Logic gets almost no bug fixes, and has fallen behind in the industry in terms of functionality. I've read that Final Cut Studio is behind the times in video as well. Also, try editing AVCHD on a Mac vs PC. One of them can basically do nothing, the other can play it and edit it absolutely beautifully. Frustrating.
And all I use are OSX machines. So...
Just a few points:
Bill Gates actually programs. Steve jobs doesn't. In fact he even ripped of Woz big time in the olden days. He is no saint. He simply gets people to do his bidding.
In many ways, Windows 7 stomps all over Snow Leopard, which is still not that fast and appears to be incredibly bug ridden. It simply does not "just work." What's sad about that is that their hardware configurations are VERY few, and they STILL have messed up some of their systems. This is frightening, and does not bode well for the future of the OS. They appear to be quickly becoming a phone and music player company first and foremost. Again, many areas where SL doesn't hold a candle to W7, unfortunately.
Certain apps like the finder are woefully inadequate. Why is Apple outdone by third party software like Path Finder? File management in OSX is a nightmare.
Apple makes a decent OS, but it's pretty bug ridden, and also quite dumbed down in a lot of ways. Very restrictive. They also write some BAD software. The iLife suite is complete garbage. Logic gets almost no bug fixes, and has fallen behind in the industry in terms of functionality. I've read that Final Cut Studio is behind the times in video as well. Also, try editing AVCHD on a Mac vs PC. One of them can basically do nothing, the other can play it and edit it absolutely beautifully. Frustrating.
And all I use are OSX machines. So...
If memory serves me right, Steve spent the last year geting over his pancreatic cancer, and transplant.
Give the guy a break.
Having much more money than you could ever possibly spend is really more of a burden than a luxury. That's why it's often easier to just give it away via philanthropy... Where else would it be used?
There's only so many things one can really buy, and people like Bill Gates are known to be relatively modest spenders.
Obviously, you are not a tax expert. Or expert in anything that you are talking about. This is easily one of the most out-of-touch comments that I have seen on this site.
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I agree, that was an awful reply.
Bill Gates has done a lot for Microsoft even since retiring as CEO, just like Steve Jobs virtually revived Apple from the dead in the late 90s. And what both choose to do with their money should really be their business and no one else's.
It's not just about Gates and Jobs...
That list includes other entrepreneurs too. Some of them will have or have had more relevance than they are given credit for.
But if it comes down to this useless and pretty stupid PC-Mac conflict, we have to recognise that Gates did more for the spread of the whole concept of 'Operating System' than anybody else. Yes, he made controversial decisions and he was often accused of exploiting his company's position. Yet, he not just 'gave' well over 30 BILLION USD to charity (and it is not tax deductible, by the way). He simply established a whole new way of philanthropy, introducing a new way of influence and efficiency in the wasteful and underfunded world of NGOs. His 30b+ USD contribution has so much impact that it just cannot be understated.
Of course, if we are talking about products - as I can see, some people can only think in consumerism - Jobs gave us iPods, the mouse, Firewire (then took it away, then gave it back) and Apple TV . He is also a highly controversial figure if we consider the organisational culture he is responsible for in his corporation. I already mentioned the share backdating fiasco and the mismanagement of his health state as a legal duty some time ago, I don't want to waste time with that.
Of course, Jobs is also responsible for leading a company that gives consumers an alternative choice. He is responsible to maintain a kind of industrial design within the product range that is actually not a bad balance between price, usability and appearance. He is not as generous with his money as others, but after all, even Henry Frick, a much hated industrialist was able to leave his name associated with art and public good. We never know, whether Jobs will get sick of spending his time with product development, taking part in some corporate jungle warfare. After all, he was close to death enough to have his priorities changed and to see that there is life outside of computers and iPods.
That list includes other entrepreneurs too. Some of them will have or have had more relevance than they are given credit for.
But if it comes down to this useless and pretty stupid PC-Mac conflict, we have to recognise that Gates did more for the spread of the whole concept of 'Operating System' than anybody else. Yes, he made controversial decisions and he was often accused of exploiting his company's position. Yet, he not just 'gave' well over 30 BILLION USD to charity (and it is not tax deductible, by the way). He simply established a whole new way of philanthropy, introducing a new way of influence and efficiency in the wasteful and underfunded world of NGOs. His 30b+ USD contribution has so much impact that it just cannot be understated.
Of course, if we are talking about products - as I can see, some people can only think in consumerism - Jobs gave us iPods, the mouse, Firewire (then took it away, then gave it back) and Apple TV
. He is also a highly controversial figure if we consider the organisational culture he is responsible for in his corporation. I already mentioned the share backdating fiasco and the mismanagement of his health state as a legal duty some time ago, I don't want to waste time with that.Of course, Jobs is also responsible for leading a company that gives consumers an alternative choice. He is responsible to maintain a kind of industrial design within the product range that is actually not a bad balance between price, usability and appearance. He is not as generous with his money as others, but after all, even Henry Frick, a much hated industrialist was able to leave his name associated with art and public good. We never know, whether Jobs will get sick of spending his time with product development, taking part in some corporate jungle warfare. After all, he was close to death enough to have his priorities changed and to see that there is life outside of computers and iPods.