Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[spinedoc77]

With the qualifier of being a user interface tool, which is in the same sense Steve Jobs meant it in the first place rather than in the "hey look, a stylus, the stylus isn't dead" context that everyone else was using in this thread.

I didn't get that impression, I think most on here agree that the stylus shouldn't drive the interface, it seems that there really isn't a discussion so much as a lack of understanding. Whether it's what Jobs meant or not who knows.

My personal opinion is IF he did include a stylus in the first iPhone it would have been a hit and indispensable and instead of discussing this we'd be discussing how Samsung stole the stylus idea away from Apple. We might have had some serious innovation, maybe even the end of paper as we know it. Kind of like facetime or SMS maybe note taking would have become as ubiquitous as using a piece of paper and a real pen. Sharing and collaboration, syncing between multiple devices, searchability, etc.

 

[orestes1984]

Maybe we would have seen some more in innovation in predictive handwriting, and all kinds of other things. Who really knows, all I know is that wasn't much fun 12 years ago. I used to laugh at my friend who used to say "don't write that way, you have to do it like this!"

 

[flameproof]

My personal opinion is IF he did include a stylus in the first iPhone it would have been a hit....

Not sure about it because.....:

1.) At that time there were already many devices with stylus out there. iPaq, Palm, Dell hat something..., plus many others.

2.) Just using finger was something rather new!

3.) Anyway, nothing from that time compares to the S-Pen.

IMHO, Jobs was wrong about things way more often as he he was right. But at least he did try....

 

[mrex]

Image

to this

Image

from 2006

to 2007

want more examples to bring you back to earth from iReality?

There is the myriad of test cases against Apple by HTC, Samsung and others all of which failed.

and lots of cases when loosing patents that shouldnt have given in the first place... and when apple loose there is always plan b .

 

[rowspaxe]

If you need a stylus you can buy one from Wacom that has like a bazillion pressure levels. It's a non issue really. I really wouldn't buy a Note just because it comes with a stylus.

Your so ignorant--its awesome!

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When I look around the industrial design facility there are many sketchers and notetakers, but I haven't seen anyone using a stylus yet. Most of them are Moleskine users. So for how many people can the stylus replace fancy drawing pencils? To me the stylus seems to satisfy a niche of a niche.

I work in film and indistrial design and everyone works digitally...Moleskine users...lol. Wheres your time machine

 

[Savor]

Not sure about it because.....:

1.) At that time there were already many devices with stylus out there. iPaq, Palm, Dell hat something..., plus many others.

2.) Just using finger was something rather new!

3.) Anyway, nothing from that time compares to the S-Pen.

IMHO, Jobs was wrong about things way more often as he he was right. But at least he did try....

In Jobs defense, although he is dead now so he can't defend himself anyway. While he was wrong about tablets under 9.7 inches, Android, and big phones, he was also right on alot of things. Apple would have went completely bankrupt if he didn't return.

Buying Pixar and selling it to Disney is one of his "right" moves that made him BILLIONS. A right move with a ton of foresight. His company NeXT would resurrect Apple with the birth of Mac OSX and iOS. Steve Jobs wasn't always right. But when he was right, he was a billion times over right based on cash flow.

 

[Oohara]

In Jobs defense, although he is dead now so he can't defend himself anyway. While he was wrong about tablets under 9.7 inches, Android, and big phones, he was also right on alot of things. Apple would have went completely bankrupt if he didn't return.

Buying Pixar and selling it to Disney is one of his "right" moves that made him BILLIONS. A right move with a ton of foresight. His company NeXT would resurrect Apple with the birth of Mac OSX and iOS. Steve Jobs wasn't always right. But when he was right, he was a billion times over right based on cash flow.

I think the whole premise of Jobs being wrong about big phones is incorrect to begin with. I'm sure he know very well how good big phones could be but he said the opposite so that Apple could stretch their sales of the cheaper-to-produce smaller phones as long as possible, thereby saving a ton of cash and thus keeping profits higher.

 

[Kissaragi]

He was right at the time, everyone needed a push to make devices and apps that didn't need a stylus to work.

I think all the finger based standards are established enough now to start putting proper stylus support back for notes and drawing. Its a shame only samsung really do it so far.

 

[I7guy]

He was right at the time, everyone needed a push to make devices and apps that didn't need a stylus to work.

I think all the finger based standards are established enough now to start putting proper stylus support back for notes and drawing. Its a shame only samsung really do it so far.

Can you imagine riding the e train, holding on with one hand, using your phone with your other hand and holding the stylus in your mouth?

Sure I agree specific applications should support a stylus.

 

[jamezr]

Can you imagine riding the e train, holding on with one hand, using your phone with your other hand and holding the stylus in your mouth?

Sure I agree specific applications should support a stylus.

That's not really based in reality.......that person would have the same issues trying to use any large phone....like a N4 or N6 or IP6 Plus.......not really phones good for one handed use while holding on while being jostled on a train....... no stylus needed.....

 

[I7guy]

That's not really based in reality.......that person would have the same issues trying to use any large phone....like a N4 or N6 or IP6 Plus.......not really phones good for one handed use while holding on while being jostled on a train....... no stylus needed.....

Not really. I ride the commuter rails and subways regularly. Unless sitting down a stylus would just be a pita.

 

[Dontazemebro]

I really don't mean to offend anyone by this, but I am amazed that this discussion is still going on. Can you guys really see Apple adding a stylus, ever?? I mean from a pure brand/style perspective. No matter how useful a stylus can be - it'd just bring all the wrong associations for an iOS device and additionally it'd look way too much like admitting that Samsung was right about something. They might as well add a Thinkpad-style TrackPoint to the middle of their MBP keyboards...

It's not really the actual/physical stylus that they are asking for. It's the underlying technology that goes into the display panels that makes the stylus that comes with the device so invaluable. Yes you can already get a stylus but without the Wacom digitizer in the screen itself, it's rather useless.

If Apple were to add this display technology to their existing 6 plus and iPad lineup, they could make a killing on selling the individual stylist. That way people who feel they don't need it, never even know it's there.

 

[Oohara]

It's not really the actual/physical stylus that they are asking for. It's the underlying technology that goes into the display panels that makes the stylus that comes with the device so invaluable. Yes you can already get a stylus but without the Wacom digitizer in the screen itself, it's rather useless.

Sorry I'm not sure I understand you. Yes, I know how the S Pen works. How does that relate to what I'm saying though?

 

[Dontazemebro]

Sorry I'm not sure I understand you. Yes, I know how the S Pen works. How does that relate to what I'm saying though?

From your response it looked like the rest of the uninformed responses in this thread where everybody thinks it's just "a stylus" that needs to be added. I was just trying to clarify the difference and where some people are getting it confused.

 

[Oohara]

From your response it looked like the rest of the uninformed responses in this thread where everybody thinks it's just "a stylus" that needs to be added. I was just trying to clarify the difference and where some people are getting it confused.

Ah sorry, I can see how my last post sounded like that. But that wasn't my point and I agree that the S Pen is different from any old stylus. Here are two of my previous posts:

I still think that no matter how useful a stylus can be, Apple will never make one - especially not one that comes paired with their devices. And this from a pure brand perspective. The stylus remains a symbol of the 90's PC nerd. This is precisely the image Apple doesn't want to evoke. Additionally, putting a stylus in a phone would look way, way too much like admitting fault on their part and copying Samsung. Thus I think this discussion is largely moot.

I'll repeat my disclaimer too, just in case - I love the Note devices and the S Pen, and true PC nerds are my heroes <3

Lol. Let's make it a glowing mini-apple too.... Hey, they could call it the iCore

Nah, but in all seriousness what I'm saying is that Jobs was right not to implement a stylus, as it would have damaged the brand. Any general statements that he then made about styli are completely irrelevant - he just said what was necessary to support the brand philosophy. And the brand hasn't changed in any way which would make a stylus a real alternative for an iOS device today.

With that said - I think the S Pen on the Note is awesome and can be very useful indeed. (Just making sure I don't come off as a Samsung/Note hater here...) It just doesn't belong in an iOS device.

Big phones on the other hand, I don't think he was wrong to dismiss them either - at the time. But obviously those times have changed and there Apple could hop aboard the train without sacrificing their cool.

 

[Dontazemebro]

Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

Okay gotcha, I agree too. Brand awareness means everything to Apple and they'll likely never add a built-in accessory that would tarnish that legacy.

That's why I think adding the display technology and making a compatible stylus a standalone accessory a win win for everybody. Hell, on top of that they could even sell a special case that it attaches too.

Yes a huge WIN for everybody.

 

[Atomic Walrus]

Okay gotcha, I agree too. Brand awareness means everything to Apple and they'll likely never add a built-in accessory that would tarnish that legacy.

That's why I think adding the display technology and making a compatible stylus a standalone accessory a win win for everybody. Hell, on top of that they could even sell a special case that it attaches too.

Yes a huge WIN for everybody.

It sounds like a potentially good compromise, except now Apple's paying for digitizers for every device and only a small percentage are actually using them. This would be like including the digitizer in the Galaxy S5 where most people won't ever use it instead of making a separate product line.

If Apple does stylus support in this manner it would probably have to end up being active capacitive (vs passive capacitive, touch and the rubber crayon styluses). This way there's nothing extra being spent on the digitizers themselves (it uses the capacitive touch digitizer). N-trig has shown that active capacitive still needs work compared to Wacom's EMR unfortunately.

 

[BigInDallas]

Times have changed. Just like how at the time of the original iPhone release, AT&T offered unlimited data plans and now you have the CEO regretting every day of his life that he shouldn't have offered them in the first place.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/04/att-randall-stephenson/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

The fact is, you can't point the finger at Steve for an opinion he had many, many years ago. Times have changed, the market has changed. For what it's worth, Apple had the biggest display when they first released the iPhone.

Great excuse for Apple. They are the luckiest company around. Their fans are always willing to overlook their errors.

 

[samiznaetekto]

After 2 weeks with Note 4, the S Pen is almost always in my hand. Totally in love with it. When using it for navigation, it rests between my fingers like a fine cigarette. I chew its end while thinking. I almost stopped using keyboard - handwriting recognition is amazing (writing this post with pen). With it, I feel like an engineering genius ready to create something amazing, not like a monkey poking at things with sausage fingers. It boosts my thinking process so much.

So Steve, you were sooooooo wrong!

 

[alex2792]

I love the spen, I use it to sign forms without having to print and scan all the time. Having the ability to crop content from anywhere and share it easily is also very handy.

 

[I7guy]

Great excuse for Apple. They are the luckiest company around. Their fans are always willing to overlook their errors.

I'm certainly willing to overlook Apple's errors, because imo they make the best phones, have the best support and the best apps.

I'm not exactly sure what errors I'm overlooking, but based on what people around here say, I'm willing to overlook them.

 

[mi7chy]

With a precision pen I'm able to go paperless since I can fill out, annotate and sign forms and electronically deliver instead of the traditional print, fill out/sign and scan/email or fax. I only buy devices with precision pen now like the Galaxy Note and Surface Pro series. Without it it's just a dumb consumption device like my iPad. I know a lot people in real estate that only use precision pen devices since they need to capture signatures.

 

[Savor]

Been reading Walter Isaacson's book of Steve Jobs. I finally came on reading it after three years once I got back into reading e-books. I am already quite familiar with Steve Jobs' life watching Noah Wyle and Ashton Kutcher's performance and reading many stuff about him when he was still alive. So not of this is all shocking or surprising to me anymore. SJ was right and wrong in alot of things.

But yeah, the guy was very emotionally-driven and probably not a nice guy to go have lunch with. One day, he might say your work is s***. The next day, he is cool about it all or pretends he came up with the idea. Very interesting fellow. I'm already at the chapter right after Bill Gates comes up with Windows. It was repeated SJ cried and smelled alot. Routine statements in the book. Still, if SJ was alive to today it makes me wonder how much better the current Apple products would be right now. Once he died and Forstall got ousted, it seems Apple has now become a me-too company. The ethos was always there in the beginning with SJ. Now that attention to detail is starting to fade as Apple has become a nice company.

It's like the current NBA. Players in the 80's played with so much passion. There were real rivalries. Now everybody gets along or joins forces. I liked it when NBA and Apple played with a PASSION...

 

[Neverbepeace]

Been reading Walter Isaacson's book of Steve Jobs. I finally came on reading it after three years once I got back into reading e-books. I am already quite familiar with Steve Jobs' life watching Noah Wyle and Ashton Kutcher's performance and reading many stuff about him when he was still alive. So not of this is all shocking or surprising to me anymore. SJ was right and wrong in alot of things.

But yeah, the guy was very emotionally-driven and probably not a nice guy to go have lunch with. One day, he might say your work is s***. The next day, he is cool about it all or pretends he came up with the idea. Very interesting fellow. I'm already at the chapter right after Bill Gates comes up with Windows. It was repeated SJ cried and smelled alot. Routine statements in the book. Still, if SJ was alive to today it makes me wonder how much better the current Apple products would be right now. Once he died and Forstall got ousted, it seems Apple has now become a me-too company. The ethos was always there in the beginning with SJ. Now that attention to detail is starting to fade as Apple has become a nice company.

It's like the current NBA. Players in the 80's played with so much passion. There were real rivalries. Now everybody gets along or joins forces. I liked it when NBA and Apple played with a PASSION...

Amen......amen.

 

[Wrathwitch]

Your so ignorant--its awesome!

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I work in film and indistrial design and everyone works digitally...Moleskine users...lol. Wheres your time machine

You're = correct form for you are.

industrial = correct spelling for industrial.

Where's = correct form for Where is

Lest he who has never sinned cast the first stone..

Translation = if you are going to make fun of someone else for being ignorant, at least ensure that you are insulting them with correct spelling and grammar, especially if you want the judgemental vibe to come across correctly.

Just "sayin".

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The only thing I have to say about Steve Jobs (in context of the OP's thread), who I believe the world is a more boring place without, is:

"You are holding it wrong."