Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[spinedoc77]

I do think Jobs was wrong about the stylus, but in all fairness I believe Jobs espoused mostly about not using the stylus as a control method. The best example of this might be windows mobile phones where the OS was sort of a smaller version of the windows desktop and you needed the stylus to navigate it. Although I have very fond memories of windows mobile, for the average consumer navigating with the stylus wasn't a good UI choice and in that sense Jobs was right.

But with that said I think outlawing a form of communication and record keeping invented thousands of years ago and still used extensively in modern society was a mistake. Having a stylus on my Note 4 is pretty incredible, and it's even more incredible having one on a tablet such as my surface pro 3. Whether for business or pleasure I can't even begin to list how many times I've used it.

At the end of the day it's about choice. Having a digitizer and a pen parked inside a phone doesn't affect the function of that phone negatively. It's just one more tool, one more choice that I have at my disposal in my every day life.

 

[sinsin07]

But you can fit a stylus, pencils, pens, and a 34 crayon set in iPhone's massive bezels. Apple should get on that right away.

The massive bezels are selling, unlike Samsung who is getting slammed from the top and bottom.

No need for Apple to worry about bezels.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

The massive bezels are selling, unlike Samsung who is getting slammed from the top and bottom.

No need for Apple to worry about bezels.

Samsung is not getting slammed, it's hiding billions of dollars inside iPhone's massive bezels to avoid taxes.

 

[cracksoup]

Was Steve Jobs wrong? Hell yes. That man did not see that different people have different needs. I am an average consumer but I love to use the S pen on my Note. Sometimes I switch back to my iPhone just to try how it feels and everytime I want to take a note I'm just disappointed that I can't use action memo or S Note. I use the pen quite frequently.

 

[jamezr]

Must not have any clue as to Apple and patents. Apple has many patents.


Most you will never see in production.


But by all means, please hold your breath on an Apple stylus.

Yeah....you're probably one of those guys that said a 3.5 inch screen was perfect. That Apple will never have larger screen iPhones........or Apple will never have a smaller iPad
By all means, hold your breath on an Apple with a larger screen than 3.5 inches..........
Oh wait! /s

 

[Markyboy81]

The massive bezels are selling, unlike Samsung who is getting slammed from the top and bottom.

No need for Apple to worry about bezels.

Funny how any criticism of Apple is met by 'Apple have sold x number of...'.
Mcdonalds also sell huge numbers of burgers but it doesn't mean they're that great.

 

[jamezr]

Funny how any criticism of Apple is met by 'Apple have sold x number of...'.
Mcdonalds also sell huge numbers of burgers but it doesn't mean they're that great.

Thats a great analogy.......

 

[rrl]

What's so funny is that Steve Jobs was more wrong about the stylus than he was about big screens.

 

[pdqgp]

Don't forget to mention Androids garbage email client, the poor keyboards when compared to the iPhone and the daily mysterious battery drain.

^^ two of the three I think you're on crack when saying. Keyboards on iPhones > Android

Mysterious Battery issues sound like user error and or lack of understanding on something.

 

[spinedoc77]

^^ two of the three I think you're on crack when saying. Keyboards on iPhones > Android

Mysterious Battery issues sound like user error and or lack of understanding on something.

I'd say all 3. I like androids email system and really enjoy having it as a widget as well.

 

[pdqgp]

Why do you want a stylus on a touch screen?!?!?!?!?!

Precision. Especially when signing a name, drawing, etc. Also, ever watch women with decent nails use a smart phone or tablet? I work with a bunch and they love external keyboards for a reason.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I do think Jobs was wrong about the stylus, but in all fairness I believe Jobs espoused mostly about not using the stylus as a control method. The best example of this might be windows mobile phones where the OS was sort of a smaller version of the windows desktop and you needed the stylus to navigate it. Although I have very fond memories of windows mobile, for the average consumer navigating with the stylus wasn't a good UI choice and in that sense Jobs was right.

But with that said I think outlawing a form of communication and record keeping invented thousands of years ago and still used extensively in modern society was a mistake. Having a stylus on my Note 4 is pretty incredible, and it's even more incredible having one on a tablet such as my surface pro 3. Whether for business or pleasure I can't even begin to list how many times I've used it.

At the end of the day it's about choice. Having a digitizer and a pen parked inside a phone doesn't affect the function of that phone negatively. It's just one more tool, one more choice that I have at my disposal in my every day life.

That is an interesting take on the situation. I agree with it. In this day, I don't want a device like my Palm T|X where I need to use a stylus to do a majority of tasks. But I like how Samsung implements the stylus as a supplement.

 

[Dontazemebro]

Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

Don't know if Apple was wrong about the stylus but I do know the mods are wrong for always moving troll bait threads to the Alternative forum. Why?

If I constantly make threads bashing the iPhone, will it get moved to the iPhone forum?

 

[pdqgp]

Bahroo and tommysm,

You guys sound like the average iDevice user that doesn't have a need for a stylus. However, I'm an artist and I absolutely need a stylus to do the things I do. I understand that I'm not the average user so my opinions and needs won't be shared by the masses that do not require a stylus.

I user my S-Pen for a number of things.

• Marking up photos and drawings
• Marking up PDF's and screen shots
• Signing PDF / documents
• As a pointer when I'm showing details to people on my phone while walking a client site.
• Handwritten notes on documents get attention
• Drawing and drafting up ideas

Again, the Note series is a Phablet. Some see it as just a big phone and that's fine but others use it as a small tablet too.

 

[appleii.c]

That is an interesting take on the situation. I agree with it. In this day, I don't want a device like my Palm|T where I need to use a stylus to do a majority of tasks. But I like how Samsung implements the stylus as a supplement.

Yes and no... I don't think people would object to having the OS be more "Stylus friendly", but I'm sure market research would need to be done to gauge the demand for it.

I agree with choice, but Personally I would not want a bigger/thicker phone simply to include a stylus... especially a cheap one that would likely be replaced by professional users who prefer a "better" option. To me its kind of like the headphones included in the phones. They sere their purpose, but I never use the Apple ones. I've gone and purchased a much better set to use. Imagine if the standard ones were permanently attached?

 

[appleii.c]

A pen's less useful with a small phone. That's why Samsung only includes it on their phablets and tablets. (Btw, Samsung uses the Wacom pen and digitizer technology.)

Although, I must say, I used to use the stylus on my last Windows Mobile phone quite a bit when I was renovating our house. I'd quite often pull out the stylus (which on an HTC would also automatically launch a notepad app) and sketch a diagram with measurements before going to Home Depot. It was just like using a pencil and notepad, but electronically.

I think if I was writing a book or more into saving things on Evernote, or if I was a student again, a pen would be quite handy. If you get a chance, watch this video of using a pen and multitasking on a Note Tablet:

YouTube: video

To me, this is almost like having the Courier Tablet that Microsoft killed instead of using it as an iPad competitor, simply because it didn't fit into their Windows centric paradigm:

YouTube: video

Not bad. The multi tasking is definitely interesting. My issue is that I don't see too much benefit in using a stylus over just your finger. More precision possibly.

Here's my stance on the whole Stylus thing. I'm THE typical loyal Apple fan. I say Typical because I think I represent MOST loyal Apple fans, not the occasional fanatical nut who thinks Apple is God. I could care less about having a Stylus for every day use. Maybe I'm just not used to it, who knows. I DO like to draw so I occasionally play with Paper and ArtRage for which I use a stylus for on occasion. I don't mind if Apple introduces Stylus features into the OS, but I prefer they keep to doing what they are good at. Leave the other stuff to the 3rd party developers who can likely do a MUCH better job. I don't want them trying to be all things to all people. That usually doesn't work for any company. Apple isn't great at maps, they aren't great at social media, and a few others. I prefer them be great at a few things, than OK to good at many. Unfortunately the shareholders and the board see things differently.

 

[Jessica Lares]

No, he was right about the stylus. You guys are thinking too far in the present.

The 3DS is flawed because you have to use a stylus or the tip of your fingernail to navigate certain things, including punching in passwords when you're not playing games.

The Windows Mobile devices of yesteryear also had the same problem. I used to use IRC with the little keyboard and stylus on my Pocket PC. Now I just use my finger.

The Note devices come with a pen, but it's not something you have to use each and everytime you reach for the device like it used to be.

It was the case usage of ten years ago that he was arguing against, and not so much the creative and efficient usage of the current styluses.

 

[AustinIllini]

There are about 4 viable stylus applications, but the average consumer has little or no use for any of them.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yes and no... I don't think people would object to having the OS be more "Stylus friendly", but I'm sure market research would need to be done to gauge the demand for it.

I agree with choice, but Personally I would not want a bigger/thicker phone simply to include a stylus... especially a cheap one that would likely be replaced by professional users who prefer a "better" option. To me its kind of like the headphones included in the phones. They sere their purpose, but I never use the Apple ones. I've gone and purchased a much better set to use. Imagine if the standard ones were permanently attached?

I agree to a certain extent, but it's really not an issue. Look at the difference in thickness between an iPhone 6 plus and a Note 4 for example. The difference is 1.4mm of thickness, the other dimensions are virtually the same as well. I know the argument also is that the s-pen may be smaller than a full sized pen, but that would be like saying you don't want a camera in a phone because it's not as nice as a full sized camera. You have the s-pen 100% of the time and don't have to worry about leaving it at home, yet at the same time you can opt to put a larger stylus in your pocket/bag.

----------

No, he was right about the stylus. You guys are thinking too far in the present.

The 3DS is flawed because you have to use a stylus or the tip of your fingernail to navigate certain things, including punching in passwords when you're not playing games.

The Windows Mobile devices of yesteryear also had the same problem. I used to use IRC with the little keyboard and stylus on my Pocket PC. Now I just use my finger.

The Note devices come with a pen, but it's not something you have to use each and everytime you reach for the device like it used to be.

It was the case usage of ten years ago that he was arguing against, and not so much the creative and efficient usage of the current styluses.

I agree in terms of his mindset, although IMO he was short sighted to not see the functionality of a stylus with a UI that did NOT require stylus use.

It's interesting how we went from smartphones like Palm and Windows mobile with styli, then we sort of veered off into clamshells like the Rzr which obviously couldn't have a stylus, then Apple brought us right back into smartphones but left out the stylus. IMO it's a shame we lost that.

 

[mrex]

If you need a stylus you can buy one from Wacom that has like a bazillion pressure levels. It's a non issue really. I really wouldn't buy a Note just because it comes with a stylus.

yes, you can buy them and you need to buy several of them. i had few of them with my air, e.g. one for writing... but all they were terrible. inaccuracy, lag, bt-connection lost, disappearing from time to time ("where did i put it?"), palm-rejection.. a separate pen, without a device supporting it, is a terrible combination. i just love my Note and the feeling of a real pen. you can never think about buying a bt-pen and getting the same experience ..

and yes, he was wrong. he had an idea that he didnt want to change or admit that people want and need more than he says.

 

[sinsin07]

Yeah....you're probably one of those guys that said a 3.5 inch screen was perfect. That Apple will never have larger screen iPhones........or Apple will never have a smaller iPad
By all means, hold your breath on an Apple with a larger screen than 3.5 inches..........
Oh wait! /s

No. I'm one of those guys who thinks the iPhone 6 4.7 should have been 5.0 and both 6 and 6+ are 3 years late, which is why I carry my almost 3 year old Galaxy Note 1 along with my iPhone 6+.

However, based on you other post, it perfectly understandably why it's so easy for you to assume something.

Because a patent exist doesn't necessarily equate to real world use.

Here are some other views:
Apple Patents More Stuff It Will Never Implement
What Were They Thinking?: 10 Strange Apple Patents
7 Bizarre Apple Products That Were Just Too Weird to Exist

But not to worry, Apple has been working on the stylus since 2008:
Apple Records their Thirtieth Stylus Related Invention
Wonder what happened to the previous 29.

Like I said, by all means hold your breath.

----------

Don't know if Apple was wrong about the stylus but I do know the mods are wrong for always moving troll bait threads to the Alternative forum. Why? ...snip

So they have a place to play.

----------

Funny how any criticism of Apple is met by 'Apple have sold x number of...'.
Mcdonalds also sell huge numbers of burgers but it doesn't mean they're that great.

Funny how when big bezel are brought up Fandroids have a field day, but when it shown that it doesn't matter to the buying public they bring up MacDonalds.

----------

Samsung is not getting slammed, it's hiding billions of dollars inside iPhone's massive bezels to avoid taxes.

Then they wouldn't need Apple's Bezel's based on their last couple of quarters, their own smaller bezels would suffice.

 

[Jessica Lares]

I agree in terms of his mindset, although IMO he was short sighted to not see the functionality of a stylus with a UI that did NOT require stylus use.



It's interesting how we went from smartphones like Palm and Windows mobile with styli, then we sort of veered off into clamshells like the Rzr which obviously couldn't have a stylus, then Apple brought us right back into smartphones but left out the stylus. IMO it's a shame we lost that.

I still use a stylus on my iPhone anyway. But I don't find it practical unless I'm working in drawing programs.

 

[jamezr]

No. I'm one of those guys who thinks the iPhone 6 4.7 should have been 5.0 and both 6 and 6+ are 3 years late, which is why I carry my almost 3 year old Galaxy Note 1 along with my iPhone 6+.

However, based on you other post, it perfectly understandably why it's so easy for you to assume something.

Because a patent exist doesn't necessarily equate to real world use.

Here are some other views:
Apple Patents More Stuff It Will Never Implement
What Were They Thinking?: 10 Strange Apple Patents
7 Bizarre Apple Products That Were Just Too Weird to Exist

But not to worry, Apple has been working on the stylus since 2008:
Apple Records their Thirtieth Stylus Related Invention
Wonder what happened to the previous 29.

Like I said, by all means hold your breath..

Still says nothing about your assertion that Apple will never use a stylus........who cares how many patents they have. All companies have POC products that never make the light of day outside of an RD lab.
I am sure Apple also had larger screen iPhones in RD labs as well.....look how that turned out.
so hurry Apple...turning blue here.....

 

[sinsin07]

Still says nothing about your assertion that Apple will never use a stylus........who cares how many patents they have. All companies have POC products that never make the light of day outside of an RD lab.
I am sure Apple also had larger screen iPhones in RD labs as well.....look how that turned out.
so hurry Apple...turning blue here.....

No asertation was made.

You pit 3'examples against hundred of unrealized patents.

The math doesn't add up for you.

If you were holding your breath since 2008 you'd be long dead.

 

[jrswizzle]

Physically interacting with your content (using your finger) is a far better experience for me.....much more "lively" (to counter the idea that the iPad/iPhone feels dead).

iOS is designed in a way that, combined with Apple's display tech, you really feel like you are manipulating the elements on the screen with your fingers.

I can see where a nice stylus comes in handy. I use one occasionally and am looking for a nice fine point stylus for my wife (she likes to sketch).

But "the future, now"? More like 20 years ago.....the stylus has been around for a long time. Good for some things, but not as the go-to input device for my smartphone....

That would be my fingers.

Also, while the Note has become popular enough to be considered a disruptor, let's not pretend its owners represent any type of majority.

In the grand scheme, Note owners make up less than 10% of Android users and likely less than 5% of all smartphone users.

(More than 1 billion Android devices out there, about 700 million iOS devices including tablets - very likely less than 100 million Note devices sold to date....rough estimate).

So while the stylus still has life - let's stop pretending its "back" and is a necessity for a majority of people. Because that simply isn't the case.

As has been pointed out, one can still use a stylus with the iPhone and iPad - what Jobs was getting at was that the stylus shouldn't be the MAIN input device for a mobile computer. And he's still right in that regard.