Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[Zinthar]

Bahroo and tommysm,

You guys sound like the average iDevice user that doesn't have a need for a stylus. However, I'm an artist and I absolutely need a stylus to do the things I do. I understand that I'm not the average user so my opinions and needs won't be shared by the masses that do not require a stylus.

I get the impression that most people are arguing different perspectives concerning the stylus. When Steve Jobs made the statement about styli I believe he was referring to using a stylus to navigate the operating system. From this perspective I absolutely agree with Steve Jobs that a stylus should not be required for basic operating system usage. However, for a creative professional a stylus is a requirement and a valuable asset for all aspects of my work.

Again, the question that needs to be asked is, "What is Apple's focus? Are they focusing on the average user that has no need for a stylus or are they focusing on the professional that does need a stylus?". The answer to this question will dictate if they ever design a stylus into the operating system and hardware.

This is not an stylus vs no-stylus argument. This subject is aN Apple business philosophy and should be discussed as such.

I agree. But for the type of work that you do, wouldn't you want something larger and more sophisticated like the Surface Pro 3? Drawing or taking notes on the Note feels like trying to draw on a cocktail napkin. Still, I can see some value in being to do that.

Where I think the stylus becomes cumbersome is the other ways that Samsung has tried to make use of it in their UI and multitasking. For instance, it's much easier to move and resize windows with your thumbs. It feels like they decided they had to pigeonhole that functionality into the Note's software in order to justify the stylus even though it's less efficient than the alternative.

 

[AaronRuggiere]

A stylus is tupid honetsly!

 

[kdarling]

Thanks for clarifying that a bit. I'm still a little confused though... Why would Apple include it with the iPhone?

A pen's less useful with a small phone. That's why Samsung only includes it on their phablets and tablets. (Btw, Samsung uses the Wacom pen and digitizer technology.)

Although, I must say, I used to use the stylus on my last Windows Mobile phone quite a bit when I was renovating our house. I'd quite often pull out the stylus (which on an HTC would also automatically launch a notepad app) and sketch a diagram with measurements before going to Home Depot. It was just like using a pencil and notepad, but electronically.

I think if I was writing a book or more into saving things on Evernote, or if I was a student again, a pen would be quite handy. If you get a chance, watch this video of using a pen and multitasking on a Note Tablet:

 

[lordofthereef]

I think the people vehemently against a (good) stylus are the same sort of people that were vehemently against getting rid of a dedicated keyboard and going completely digital (note that I didn't say they are the same, just the same sort, as in mindset). That is to say, you simply haven't used one enough.

The idea that a stylus is one more thing to lose is sort of perplexing. If the product is well thought out you don't even know the stylus is there, until you need it.

I am not here to say that Apple NEEDS to get into incorporating a stylus with their larger devices, but this notion that a stylus is a giant POS has me thinking most of you simply haven't used (and actually used, not just "tee her I'mma draw a weiner on the Best Buy display unit") one.

I would personally welcome a good stylus, but that would get in the way of Apple's undying lust for thin. But who knows, maybe reinforcing the phone with a stylus backbone would make it less susceptible to bending.

 

[Zwhaler]

The stylus needs to die a horrible, painful death.

One example of its usefulness: websites with drop down menus where the mouse cursor needs to "hover" over in order to show them. Porsche was a classic example. On an iOS device, if I tapped the menu it would load a page but I couldn't hover over the menus and sub menus to get where I wanted. Note stylus has a little "cursor" for this use and it is needed for some sites.

Also, on the Note 4 you can "highlight" to select items in the camera roll grid and even text on websites just like on a mouse when you click and drag to highlight. So much better and more efficient than using the little magnifying glass and setting the start and end points manually. Sorry, the stylus has it beat in this category.

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A stylus is tupid honetsly!

Lol @ tupid

 

[Tubamajuba]

Absolutely correct. Unfortunately, that gets misquoted/misused/misunderstand all the time (and often, I think, deliberately).

We were coming from a history of PDAs and PDA phones that were unusable without a stylus because nearly all of the UI controls were way too tiny to be used with a fingernail. The original iPhone finally changed that trend.

Nailed it.

Jobs' quote on styli had nothing to do with whether or not they were useful for some people- before the iPhone, most phones were tied to the stylus for *everything*. So yes, if you need a stylus to make the phone usable, you certainly blew it. Offering a stylus as an extra input option is totally different.

 

[mcdj]

"As soon as you have a stylus, you're dead."

Why on earth would he say a consumer with a stylus is dead? He didn't. He wasn't talking to end users. He was talking about other phone manufacturers. He was saying, as soon as you (you being Samsung, LG, HTC, etc) create a device that relies on a stylus for input, you have failed in creating a self sufficient touch screen device.

And he meant relies on solely. And he was and is still correct.

That's not to say that a pressure sensitive stylus wouldn't be nifty for some, and perhaps a neccessity for others. And his quote is probably showing its age because the technology that you like in the Note wasn't around 7 years ago.

But rest assured, the lack of a stylus in an iPhone box is anything but an oversight, because the vast majority of consumers simply don't want/need one.

What people DO clearly want is larger screens. Your inability to distinguish the widespread desire for a larger screen from the (lack of) desire for a stylus is why you are here typing rants and not working at Apple.

 

[arftech]

A stylus will eventually come to Apple and the folks in this thread who said they'll never use it will.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/patents-smart-pens/

 

[TheBama]

I like to use a stylus for some tasks... so I bought one.

 

[AFDoc]

I lost all of my faith in .

First off if you don't ALWAYS go to your stylus for EVERY input you kinda blew your own argument out of the water. There have always been stylus options that work with iDevices so not sure what exactly your "anger" is about.....and......You're complaining to a dead guy. OK.

I am not apposed to a stylus for some applications but NOT for my phone use.

I worked in a facility that used iPads as their charting device and used my trusty Hand stylus and loved it. I, however don't really see a practical use for a stylus with my current phone usage pattern.

As far as you being let down by apple........ Come on now really?

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YouTube: video

<Loved that!!!

So because the average user doesn't......

Wow... ffs no one is saying you can't use a stylus... No one is saying ANYONE can't use a stylus. Get over it already.

 

[Zinthar]

A stylus will eventually come to Apple and the folks in this thread who said they'll never use it will.

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/patents-smart-pens/

I wouldn't be so sure about the last part. I know some Note users and they bought the device primarily because it was the best phablet, and end up using the stylus once in a blue moon. It's very useful for certain tasks that people usually don't perform on a phone.

 

[kerrikins]

Yes, one person on the Internet means that he was dead wrong. /s

I can't tell if this post is trolling or not. If all it took for you to lose faith in Apple was a stylus then you didn't have much faith to begin with.

Also, I just want to add that as far as I'm concerned, while a stylus may be good for some people, for me personally it would just be one more thing for me to keep track of as well as potentially getting broken, etc. No thank you.

 

[Daniel3102]

Why do you want a stylus on a touch screen?!?!?!?!?!

 

[sinsin07]

"No one is going to buy a big phone." - Steve Jobs

He was wrong. Tens, hundreds of millions of people are going to buy big iPhones.

"Nobody wants a stylus."
"If you see a stylus, they blew it."
"As soon as you have a stylus, you're dead."

Well, a few days ago I tried Note 4 in Best Buy. It just blew me away. Using a true fountain pen-like stylus, with digital ink instantly flowing and with thousands of pressure levels, on a big, bright, ultra-res screen felt like the future, NOW. I instantly felt that I'm holding not just a consumption device, but real PRODUCTIVITY device, a mini computer that can inspire to create. I don't have this feeling when I'm using my iPhone or iPad. They feel dead, merely viewports into the world of premade content.

I almost always carry my trusted Moleskine with me because of this, I feel that only it gives me the opportunity to pour my thoughts and ideas, be creative. Typing on a touch keyboard or drawing with a finger does not give me that feeling. And using Note 4 I had this feeling of fresh air. I think it can replace my Moleskine.

So, Steve/Apple... I used a stylus, and I'm not dead. I feel way more alive with a stylus than with you dumb finger devices. You're dead wrong. At least somebody does want a stylus out there. I proved you wrong, Steve!

Can't wait to get my Note 4... My iDevices are going to serve as occasional consumption-only dumb terminals.

I lost all of my faith in .

Steve jobs said what he needed to say at the time he needed to say it to move his product.

Look what he said about Blackberry and the Playbook.

Note: He did specifically call out the Playbook by name on October 10 2010. (Playbook shown to public Sept. 28 2010), but the Playbook was suppose to be the iPad killer and he made reference to 7 inch tablets which pretty much slammed the door on 7 in tablets in 2011.

Besides the half baked implementation by Blackberry, small tablets were effectively a non starter to later on.

 

[AFDoc]

Why do you want a stylus on a touch screen?!?!?!?!?!

Ummmmmm why not? Meaty fingers, lots of little boxes that need to be clicked on quickly as in medical charting, long finger nails.... need more?

 

[Daniel3102]

Ummmmmm why not? Meaty fingers, lots of little boxes that need to be clicked on quickly as in medical charting, long finger nails.... need more?

Im not saying that no one should use one. Yes they can be useful. But isnt the point of the touch screen is to get away from them?

 

[markusbeutel]

No one is bound to one product or products from one company, i don't understand why so many people rant about "walled garden" or "iPhones is too small" or this or that, thats why their are so many companies creating different products for different lifestyles and usabilities.

Should I get mad that my coffee machine doesn't also make espresso?

Ok, so Apple doesn't make the product that you want the way you want it, but someone else does, ok, go buy that product and use it the way you want to use it.

It really irks me that Starbucks doesn't make fruit smoothies, I really enjoy smoothies and I really like Starbucks and I don't like going to Jamba juice, so I am going to complain on a message board until Starbucks decides to start selling smoothies. That'll show 'em.

If all the other coffee machine's on the market make espresso, then yeah - at the very least I think it's warranted to feel annoyed...

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Psst, newsflash - pen and paper aren't new. Neither are digital styluses.

Are you under the impression that styluses can't be used on an iPhone or iPad?

If I needed a Moleskine, there isn't a single digital device in existence that would be an adequate replacement.

Over 10 million iPhones sold in the first weekend says you're the one who's wrong. And Steve's been dead for over two years now. Time to move on. And BTW, feeling more "alive" because of a stylus sounds like a desperate over-the-top Samsung advertisement: "Live in a World of Infinite Possibilities".

So you'll spend hundreds for a device just for the stylus, when you can simply spend $2.93 at Amazon (*including shipping*) for a stylus that will work with your iDevice that, according to you, is "dead" and "dumb" without a stylus.

These forums seem to get more annoying on a daily basis. I'm concerned with why I even bother.

Yep, and it'll be super convenient as well to drill a hole in your idevice to make a silo fro the stylus - or I guess OP could tape it onto the device to... He's paying for more than the stylus - he's also paying for 4g of ram so he can have more than 3 web pages open without them reloading. He's also paying for the best QHD screen on any phone ever released, along with 500+ PPI - in other words he's paying for the complete package without having to find ways out of a walled garden.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

The only thing a stylus is better for is drawing.

If you do that you would have a dedicated setup for digital drawing as a professional.

 

[juanrp]

I lost all of my faith in .

Oh no! APple is DOOOooOOooOOooOoOooOoOoOMeD.

Am I right?

/sarcasm

 

[eyoungren]

Apple gives plenty of options on their devices. What they don't do is make their ecosystem a free for all like Android does. This doesn't mean that Apple thinks its customers are stupid. Far from it. Companies who think their customers are stupid act like Comcast, not Apple.

I've jailbroken iPhones before. Heck, I jailbroke my 1st gen iPhone because I could. There's nothing wrong with jailbreaking, although for me I found it was more hassle than it was worth, and a lot of the jailbroken apps hindered the OS in unexpected ways, which is exactly why Apple doesn't open every aspect of the system up to third party devs.

If Apple really felt the customers were idiots who shouldn't think for themselves, there wouldn't be an App Store. It would just be pre-approved Apple apps and nothing else.

Just because you want more options than Apple currently provides does not mean that everyone who doesn't need all those options are stupid. And it doesn't mean that Apple restricts options because they think their users are stupid.

I did not say that Apple thinks it's users are stupid. Nor did I say I think that as well.

All I said was that the average user does not want to think for themselves. We create technology because there is either a problem to solve or an inconvenience to be rid of.

Having to think is an inconvenience to many people. It does not mean that those people are stupid, just that they do not want to be bothered to think. And the amount of non-thinking that these people wish to engage in is proportional to the amount of money they spend on an item. The more expensive it is the angrier they become if they have to think about something the object is designed to ease their mind over.

Some may actually be stupid, IDK. But that was not my implication. Just because you're smart doesn't automatically follow that you WANT to think.

 

[Supermallet]

If all the other coffee machine's on the market make espresso, then yeah - at the very least I think it's warranted to feel annoyed...

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Yep, and it'll be super convenient as well to drill a hole in your idevice to make a silo fro the stylus - or I guess OP could tape it onto the device to... He's paying for more than the stylus - he's also paying for 4g of ram so he can have more than 3 web pages open without them reloading. He's also paying for the best QHD screen on any phone ever released, along with 500+ PPI - in other words he's paying for the complete package without having to find ways out of a walled garden.

I think people are too quick to complain about members being trolls. Often times people are disappointed or are having genuine issues with their phones.

This post, on the other hand, is so clearly a troll post that I can only assume the member spends most of his free time under bridges.

I did not say that Apple thinks it's users are stupid. Nor did I say I think that as well.

All I said was that the average user does not want to think for themselves. We create technology because there is either a problem to solve or an inconvenience to be rid of.

Having to think is an inconvenience to many people. It does not mean that those people are stupid, just that they do not want to be bothered to think. And the amount of non-thinking that these people wish to engage in is proportional to the amount of money they spend on an item. The more expensive it is the angrier they become if they have to think about something the object is designed to ease their mind over.

Some may actually be stupid, IDK. But that was not my implication. Just because you're smart doesn't automatically follow that you WANT to think.

By that logic, the people who want to think would all be carrying abacuses, pagers, and a roost full of messenger pigeons. Cheap and not convenient. Is it not smart for someone to want a device that lets them do the things they want effectively and efficiently?

 

[eyoungren]

By that logic, the people who want to think would all be carrying abacuses, pagers, and a roost full of messenger pigeons. Cheap and not convenient. Is it not smart for someone to want a device that lets them do the things they want effectively and efficiently?

Of course it's smart. But it's one thing to do that and quite another to do it because thinking is something you go to extremes to avoid.

I know smart people who buy devices or things not because they want to make their lives easier, but because they don't want to think for themselves. They are entirely capable, but will go to great lengths and great pains to avoid using their brains. Either because they are afraid or just mentally lazy.

The technology then becomes a crutch, not something that makes things more efficient.

 

[Supermallet]

I'm sure those people exist. I'm not sure that applies to all "non-techy" people as you claim.

 

[businezguy]

No one is bound to one product or products from one company, i don't understand why so many people rant about "walled garden" or "iPhones is too small" or this or that, thats why their are so many companies creating different products for different lifestyles and usabilities.

Should I get mad that my coffee machine doesn't also make espresso?

Ok, so Apple doesn't make the product that you want the way you want it, but someone else does, ok, go buy that product and use it the way you want to use it.

It really irks me that Starbucks doesn't make fruit smoothies, I really enjoy smoothies and I really like Starbucks and I don't like going to Jamba juice, so I am going to complain on a message board until Starbucks decides to start selling smoothies. That'll show 'em.

Starbucks does make smoothies. I'll get a strawberry smoothie every once and awhile after I workout at the gym.

 

[Steve686]

Jobs has only been gone for a few years. And it doesn't really matter what he thought so many years ago in today's market, because decisions aren't going to be made from the grave.

It's a big task for a company like Apple to change it's direction so quickly from the vision of basically one man without alienating the purists that have supported the company for years before Jobs' death.