Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[MaloCS]

Actually, you'd lose that bet. My daughter started out with a Wacom tablet and stylus.

You also assume that I am offended by your need for a precise instrument. I'm not. If you need one, get one. My lack of understanding stems from your frustration over what the average user thinks. Who cares what they think?

I'm sorry but I really don't care what your daughter uses or how she uses it. My statement was directed at you and your specific first hand experience with top of the line styli and how they can affect a user's work flow. I require a specific set of tools to put food on the table and unfortunately, at this time, Apple just doesn't offer me a toolbox that I can use. I would love to stay completely in the Apple ecosystem but trying to utilize the horrible excuses of styli that are on the market today is just too much work. I would love to move from my desktop to the couch while I digitally paint and draw but at this time that isn't an option.

Where can I find a precise stylus for an iDevice? Please show me where I can get one and I'll happily go buy it. However, all I've seen are fat, clumsy eraser like devices that suck at drawing and require a steep learning curve to just get used to how it feels when drawing. I'm a professional that requires precision, not a preschooler that enjoys finger painting.

The only way for a true, precise stylus to be used on an iDevice is for Apple to include the drivers in iOS and to upgrade the hardware to accept such a device. As of yet, this implementation is not available but highly anticipated by people like me. Additionally, these upgrades would not interfere with using the finger as a primary input device but rather, give a user the ability to use a high tech, high quality stylus for specific apps. Again, I'll reiterate, "The ability to use a quality, pressure sensitive stylus for specific apps, not as a device to replace the finger for basic operating system usage.".

 

[appleii.c]

Where can I find a precise stylus for an iDevice? Please show me where I can get one. All I've seen are fat, clumsy eraser like devices that suck at drawing. I'm a professional that requires precision, not a preschooler that enjoys finger painting.

The only way for a true, precise stylus to be used on an iDevice is for Apple to include the drivers in iOS and to upgrade the hardware to accept such a device. As of yet, this implementation is not available but highly anticipated by people like me. Additionally, these upgrades would not interfere with using the finger as a primary input device but rather, give a user the ability to use a high tech, high quality stylus for specific apps.

Have you tried the Wacom ones?

"Wacom Intuos Creative Stylus 2"
Pressure sensitivity levels: 2048
Bluetooth 4.0
Pen nib: 2.9mm


Also the Bamboo ones are supposed to be pretty good.

 

[bandrews]

So because the average user doesn't use a stylus that means a creative professional or a student note taker can't use one? Why can't these devices offer the ability to do both? Is this issue really black and white without any shades of grey?

Again, the question is, "What is Apple's focus? Are they designing products for the lowest common denominator or are they designing products for the creative professional or student?". The answer to this question will determine if Apple ever decides to implement stylus technology into their iDevices. As of right now, it's painfully obvious that they are designing products for the lowest common denominator. Apple's current line of iDevices are toys and not tools. Sure, one can jump through hoops to make their iDevice more of a tool than a toy but this approach leaves a lot to be desired.

I take offence at your comment that anyone other than a student or creative professional is the "lowest common denominator". I think you actually just mean "average user". But as an average user who is plenty intelligent enough and affluent enough to buy and use an iPhone, it does nothing more or less than I need it to.
If you are a niche user then go buy a niche product but pretty much everything Apple has released in the last 10 years has been a luxury device for the average user.
And every product they release seems to make them more and more profit so I'm guessing they're doing something right.

 

[greytmom]

I'm sorry but I really don't care what your daughter uses or how she uses it. My statement was directed at you and your specific first hand experience with top of the line styli and how they can affect a user's work flow. I require a specific set of tools to put food on the table and unfortunately, at this time, Apple just doesn't offer me a toolbox that I can use. I would love to stay completely in the Apple ecosystem but trying to utilize the horrible excuses of styli that are on the market today is just too much work. I would love to move from my desktop to the couch while I digitally paint and draw but at this time that isn't an option.

Where can I find a precise stylus for an iDevice? Please show me where I can get one and I'll happily go buy it. However, all I've seen are fat, clumsy eraser like devices that suck at drawing and require a steep learning curve to just get used to how it feels when drawing. I'm a professional that requires precision, not a preschooler that enjoys finger painting.

The only way for a true, precise stylus to be used on an iDevice is for Apple to include the drivers in iOS and to upgrade the hardware to accept such a device. As of yet, this implementation is not available but highly anticipated by people like me. Additionally, these upgrades would not interfere with using the finger as a primary input device but rather, give a user the ability to use a high tech, high quality stylus for specific apps.

Keeping in mind that I am not a personal shopper, nor do I know what your precise needs are, I found this with a quick Google. I imagine you'll tell me that this doesn't meet your needs, but perhaps you will be inspired to continue the search on your own, until you either find a platform that offers what you desire, or Apple decides to fill that niche for you.

Incidentally, I found some really nifty paintbrush styli. I think I just found the answer to the perpetual "what do I get my daughter for Christmas?"

 

[Codybanks]

He was wrong. Tens, hundreds of millions of people are going to buy big iPhones.

Hundreds of millions of people are going to buy anything with an apple logo regardless of specs

 

[Mildredop]

YouTube: video

This perfectly sums up this thread!

Steve Jobs was indeed wrong about the size of the phone. He was wrong about all sorts Was he wrong about the stylus? Only time will tell.

But in the meantime, I'm with Peter Griffin.

 

[FriednTested]

I would agree that the Samsung OEM styli are gimmicky and lack features that could make them more useful. However, you might change your opinion if you could use a true stylus like the models from Wacom. To be fair, most people wouldn't use an analog pen the size of the Samsung Note styli because they are too small and too unwieldy.

I am sure there are better alternatives... Have heard and read a lot of good reviews about stylii from Wacom and the likes... Never thought of orderin one because I couldn't justify the price vs need ratio... Even then I think the stylii are best for sketching and the likes... My handwriting sucks anyways... o

But then I souldnt still say Apple should include te stylii with the phone... Maybe just be open to stylii support at the OS level so third party manufacturers could come up with something neat...

 

[MaloCS]

Keeping in mind that I am not a personal shopper, nor do I know what your precise needs are, I found this with a quick Google. I imagine you'll tell me that this doesn't meet your needs, but perhaps you will be inspired to continue the search on your own, until you either find a platform that offers what you desire, or Apple decides to fill that niche for you.



Incidentally, I found some really nifty paintbrush styli. I think I just found the answer to the perpetual "what do I get my daughter for Christmas?"

I haven't seen the stylus in the link you posted. It's very intriguing and worth my time to research it. Thanks for the info.

I have used the brush style styli which are decent for painting. I still prefer a trusty pen style stylus like the Wacoms I've been using for decades.

Regardless, thanks for the links.

----------

But then I souldnt still say Apple should include te stylii with the phone... Maybe just be open to stylii support at the OS level so third party manufacturers could come up with something neat...

I agree. There's no need to change the finger input paradigm, just a need to add additional functionality for those that require it.

 

[Surf Monkey]

What kind of stylus should I buy? Should I buy the large tipped one or the other large tipped one? How about the styli that use clever but clumsy tricks to mimic a fine tipped stylus?

No thank you. I want a true stylus that offers a precise tip and thousands of levels of pressure sensitivity. Again, I don't see how this is a bad thing when it's obvious that Apple will never shift away from their current paradigm of using the finger as the primary input device. I see it as a quality addition to an already quality product.

I don't use one with my iPhone, but when it comes to my iPad I'm in love with the Pencil by 53. It's awesome.

 

[eyoungren]

What camp do you reside in? Are you an average user that sees a stylus as a redundant piece of hardware or are you a creative professional or note taker that sees a stylus as a required piece of tech that makes their day to day activities more efficient?

I'd have to say "neither".

By profession, I am a Graphic Designer. 99% of any design use I do is done on a Mac. My iPhone is my own personal property and I use it mainly for calls, texts and email. Also Facebook.

I am not an average user. My iPhone is jailbroken and I customize it to a high degree, but most everything I use either does not require a stylus or it's just easier to use my fingers. The few times I use Photoshop on my phone is mainly to tweak some personal image. At those times I've often wished for a mouse, not a stylus.

That said, I don't hate styluses (stylusi?). I just have no need for them.

What I don't understand is why the average user completely refuses to see the benefit of a stylus for specific activities and goes out of their way to squash any discussion concerning styli and their benefits.

Because Apple markets to the average user. The one who doesn't want to think about technology and has no objection to being forced into a specific way of doing things. Those users will even turn around and arrogantly tell you that jailbreaking is evil and wrong because Apple said so.

So, if Apple restricts things to touch, that's what they are willing to accept and use. Apple controls the game inside it's perimeter.

Does it really matter to you if Apple implements hardware and software to make use of a stylus? I can see if Apple changed their paradigm to ONLY use a stylus for general input but having the ability to natively use a high quality stylus for certain apps just doesn't seem like a paradigm shift to me.

Not to me - as long as there's an option. But NOT using a stylus is personal preference. I didn't really care for having to use it when I was on a WinMo phone. But with buttons so tiny sometimes and a requirement to be precise it was necessary in many circumstances for that phone. Not so much on the iPhone because of the user Apple designs for.

I just don't see why any Apple user would complain about the ability to use a stylus if the basic paradigm of using one's finger is retained and the stylus is relegated to specific apps.

I can agree with that, but Apple doesn't see it that way. Apple wants to minimize options because if you give the average user more than one option they can get confused and frustrated. Unhappy users tend to stop buying your product.

It's a sad state of things but, really, the typical non-techy person (that you would not find on this site) really does not want a plethora of options. They don't want to think because that requires effort and in their minds effort defeats the purpose of a smartphone. Your smartphone is supposed to do your thinking for you. That's why you've paid all that money for it.

 

[flux73]

Well, a few days ago I tried Note 4 in Best Buy. It just blew me away. Using a true fountain pen-like stylus, with digital ink instantly flowing and with thousands of pressure levels, on a big, bright, ultra-res screen felt like the future, NOW.

Psst, newsflash - pen and paper aren't new. Neither are digital styluses.

I instantly felt that I'm holding not just a consumption device, but real PRODUCTIVITY device, a mini computer that can inspire to create. I don't have this feeling when I'm using my iPhone or iPad. They feel dead, merely viewports into the world of premade content.

Are you under the impression that styluses can't be used on an iPhone or iPad?

I almost always carry my trusted Moleskine with me because of this, I feel that only it gives me the opportunity to pour my thoughts and ideas, be creative. Typing on a touch keyboard or drawing with a finger does not give me that feeling. And using Note 4 I had this feeling of fresh air. I think it can replace my Moleskine.

If I needed a Moleskine, there isn't a single digital device in existence that would be an adequate replacement.

So, Steve/Apple... I used a stylus, and I'm not dead. I feel way more alive with a stylus than with you dumb finger devices. You're dead wrong. At least somebody does want a stylus out there. I proved you wrong, Steve!

Over 10 million iPhones sold in the first weekend says you're the one who's wrong. And Steve's been dead for over two years now. Time to move on. And BTW, feeling more "alive" because of a stylus sounds like a desperate over-the-top Samsung advertisement: "Live in a World of Infinite Possibilities".

Can't wait to get my Note 4... My iDevices are going to serve as occasional consumption-only dumb terminals.

I lost all of my faith in .

So you'll spend hundreds for a device just for the stylus, when you can simply spend $2.93 at Amazon (*including shipping*) for a stylus that will work with your iDevice that, according to you, is "dead" and "dumb" without a stylus.

These forums seem to get more annoying on a daily basis. I'm concerned with why I even bother.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Have you tried the Wacom ones?

"Wacom Intuos Creative Stylus 2"
Pressure sensitivity levels: 2048
Bluetooth 4.0
Pen nib: 2.9mm


Also the Bamboo ones are supposed to be pretty good.

Seconded. The WaCom products are excellent.

 

[vi2867]

I don't think Steve was wrong about big phones. I think at the time it was not a good idea, but now they make sense.

 

[greytmom]

I haven't seen the stylus in the link you posted. It's very intriguing and worth my time to research it. Thanks for the info.

I have used the brush style styli which are decent for painting. I still prefer a trusty pen style stylus like the Wacoms I've been using for decades.

Regardless, thanks for the links.

You betcha. Message me and let me know if you get it and like it - that may get added to the Christmas list too.

 

[accountforit]

What camp do you reside in? Are you an average user that sees a stylus as a redundant piece of hardware or are you a creative professional or note taker that sees a stylus as a required piece of tech that makes their day to day activities more efficient? The answer to the above question probably dictates your opinion of having and using a stylus.

Or it could be that you type slow and other people don't. A stylus doesn't add any advantage over your finger and current applications.

So making use of a stylus means you are creative and those who don't, aren't? Please.

 

[MaloCS]

I'd have to say "neither".

By profession, I am a Graphic Designer. 99% of any design use I do is done on a Mac. My iPhone is my own personal property and I use it mainly for calls, texts and email. Also Facebook.

I am not an average user. My iPhone is jailbroken and I customize it to a high degree, but most everything I use either does not require a stylus or it's just easier to use my fingers. The few times I use Photoshop on my phone is mainly to tweak some personal image. At those times I've often wished for a mouse, not a stylus.

That said, I don't hate styluses (stylusi?). I just have no need for them.


Because Apple markets to the average user. The one who doesn't want to think about technology and has no objection to being forced into a specific way of doing things. Those users will even turn around and arrogantly tell you that jailbreaking is evil and wrong because Apple said so.

So, if Apple restricts things to touch, that's what they are willing to accept and use. Apple controls the game inside it's perimeter.

Not to me - as long as there's an option. But NOT using a stylus is personal preference. I didn't really care for having to use it when I was on a WinMo phone. But with buttons so tiny sometimes and a requirement to be precise it was necessary in many circumstances for that phone. Not so much on the iPhone because of the user Apple designs for.

I can agree with that, but Apple doesn't see it that way. Apple wants to minimize options because if you give the average user more than one option they can get confused and frustrated. Unhappy users tend to stop buying your product.

It's a sad state of things but, really, the typical non-techy person (that you would not find on this site) really does not want a plethora of options. They don't want to think because that requires effort and in their minds effort defeats the purpose of a smartphone. Your smartphone is supposed to do your thinking for you. That's why you've paid all that money for it.

eyoungren,

Thanks for taking the time to write out such a detailed response. I think you and I share the same beliefs. My bad if I misinterpreted what you wrote.

 

[eyoungren]

eyoungren,

Thanks for taking the time to write out such a detailed response. I think you and I share the same beliefs. My bad if I misinterpreted what you wrote.

To be fair, while I don't hate them, I really don't want to use one either. That said, it's not like I want to see them all abolished. It's just not my favorite tool.

That's all I was trying to imply.

 

[Gmcube]

I can see myself wanting to use a stylus in a phablet or ipad, I like to draw/sketch. I even like using my wacom intuos as my main mouse. I never get cramps anymore that a mouse or trackpad would give me. But when it comes to something meant to be small and go in and out of your pocket a lot, it doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[MaloCS]

Or it could be that you type slow and other people don't. A stylus doesn't add any advantage over your finger and current applications.

So making use of a stylus means you are creative and those who don't, aren't? Please.

What?

There are many more professions that require a stylus other than creatives or students. The reason I chose creative is because that's my profession and the reason I chose student was because they take notes on a daily basis. My intent was not to infer that every other profession was on a lower level. I could have easily said doctor and real estate agent. UGH!

However, I'll clarify the essence of my statement that you chose to respond to. I don't believe that every user that chooses not to use a stylus lacks creativity. What I believe is that every user that chooses not to use a stylus is part of the "average user" category. An average user to me is someone that uses their device, more often than not, for leisurely activities rather than to earn a living, that would be a professional.

There is nothing wrong with being an average user just as there is nothing wrong with being a professional user. Unfortunately for professional users, the current iteration of iDevices is geared more towards the average user than the professional user.

 

[GrindedDown]

I think Steve was very right when he made those remarks. However, he made them in a time period where we had a lot of resistive touch screen devices on the market, of which there are none now.

He also made those comments before we had an app store. Before we had iPad. Before the machines became so advance that we could play console quality games and have the potential to offer aw much power as some laptops and desktops.

The industry has very much changed, advanced, and evolved since then. I do think that it makes very little sense to use a stylus with a phone because. For me it is more cumbersome than using my hands. However, my iPad is an incredibly powerful machine and portable in a way that my laptop is not.

The stylus will not pick up as a mainstream device for the public and it shouldn't, but there is a large enough installed user base of creatives and professionals that would love more advanced functionality out of these devices.

I fell the time is right for them to introduce more advanced digitizers. They probably will too as they are seeking to innovate iPad, a line that will be increasingly difficult to innovate as time goes on. They dont have to include a stylus, but make it so a stylus would be more accurate.

Thats all they ened to do too. No need to announce a stylus or stylus support, just quietly upgrade the digitizer and tout it as "the most accurate touch device they've made". The public won't have the perception that they now need to use a stylus and the creative community will be applauding because they know what ot really means.

Those saying a stylus is foolish obviously hasnt looked at how big the market is for them.

 

[accountforit]

What?

There are many more professions that require a stylus other than creatives or students. The reason I chose creative is because that's my profession and the reason I chose student was because they take notes on a daily basis. My intent was not to infer that every other profession was on a lower level. I could have easily said doctor and real estate agent. UGH!

However, I'll clarify the essence of my statement that you chose to respond to. I don't believe that every user that chooses not to use a stylus lacks creativity. What I believe is that every user that chooses not to use a stylus is part of the "average user" category. An average user to me is someone that uses their device, more often than not, for leisurely activities rather than to earn a living, that would be a professional.

There is nothing wrong with being an average user just as there is nothing wrong with being a professional user. Unfortunately for professional users, the current iteration of iDevices is geared more towards the average user than the professional user.

I am a professional user. I use my phone for business more than leisure. I also use the Notes app to take notes and have no need to write. A stylus is not faster. Period.

You want to draw? Any "professional" drafter/drawer isn't going to draw on their phone.

You are reaching for a reason to own a stylus. Unfortunately, one doesn't exist.

 

[The Doctor11]

Steve was right for the time he was alive. Things have changed in the market place sense then. And no I do not want a mother ****ing stylus! I swear is Apple brings out a ****ing stylus I will walk my ass from New York state all the way over to Apple HQ, walk in the front door (by force) and find Tim Cook. We will then have a very very long and loud talk. Then I walk home

 

[Traverse]

I like a stylus for writing and drawing, but not navigation.

 

[scaredpoet]

So, Steve/Apple... I used a stylus, and I'm not dead. I feel way more alive with a stylus than with you dumb finger devices. You're dead wrong. At least somebody does want a stylus out there. I proved you wrong, Steve!

Can't wait to get my Note 4... My iDevices are going to serve as occasional consumption-only dumb terminals.

I lost all of my faith in .

Bye.

As someone who used smartphones before the iPhone, and someone who used a stylus before it was said that they were and idea, I'm gonna say, it's a bad idea. While there may be percieved benefits in some use cases, for the vast majority of use cases, the stylus starts to get in the way.

You'll notice this the first time you misplace your stylus, and realize how up the creek you are because the apps you depend on have a stylus specifically in mind, because, you know, your phone comes with one, so you're supposed to have one all the time.

A stylus-less interface is a huge step away from that nonsense, and encourages developers to find ways to do the same job without a lose-able accessory. The positives outweigh the negatives.

stylus is also a step backwards in that you're trying - again - to make certain interfaces do things that they just don't do well. A smartphone does a lot of great things. Precision digital canvas is not one of them yet. Figure out how to do that without a stylus, and the situation might change.

It's for this same reason that certain screen sizes are just a bad idea. Like... when we try to make smartphones as big as tablets. Tablets exist for a reason... so do smartphones. The iPhone 6 Plus, for example. That's really pushing it. And then people stuff their ginormous phones in their skinny jeans pockets and wonder why they bend.

 

[Supermallet]

I can agree with that, but Apple doesn't see it that way. Apple wants to minimize options because if you give the average user more than one option they can get confused and frustrated. Unhappy users tend to stop buying your product.

It's a sad state of things but, really, the typical non-techy person (that you would not find on this site) really does not want a plethora of options. They don't want to think because that requires effort and in their minds effort defeats the purpose of a smartphone. Your smartphone is supposed to do your thinking for you. That's why you've paid all that money for it.

Apple gives plenty of options on their devices. What they don't do is make their ecosystem a free for all like Android does. This doesn't mean that Apple thinks its customers are stupid. Far from it. Companies who think their customers are stupid act like Comcast, not Apple.

I've jailbroken iPhones before. Heck, I jailbroke my 1st gen iPhone because I could. There's nothing wrong with jailbreaking, although for me I found it was more hassle than it was worth, and a lot of the jailbroken apps hindered the OS in unexpected ways, which is exactly why Apple doesn't open every aspect of the system up to third party devs.

If Apple really felt the customers were idiots who shouldn't think for themselves, there wouldn't be an App Store. It would just be pre-approved Apple apps and nothing else.

Just because you want more options than Apple currently provides does not mean that everyone who doesn't need all those options are stupid. And it doesn't mean that Apple restricts options because they think their users are stupid.

I don't believe that every user that chooses not to use a stylus lacks creativity. What I believe is that every user that chooses not to use a stylus is part of the "average user" category. An average user to me is someone that uses their device, more often than not, for leisurely activities rather than to earn a living, that would be a professional.

There is nothing wrong with being an average user just as there is nothing wrong with being a professional user. Unfortunately for professional users, the current iteration of iDevices is geared more towards the average user than the professional user.

There are tons of professions that make great use of iOS devices that have no need of a stylus whatsoever. I find it odd that you'd say that all professionals need styli in order to function most efficiently. Certainly SOME professions do need them, and it would be nice if Apple built in more support, but I'm guessing the demand isn't high enough for them to put resources into it at the moment, or they're developing their own features that they want to release in conjunction with better support as opposed to launching it quietly and hoping that third parties use it.