Steve Jobs was wrong about big phones. Was he wrong about stylus, too?

[appleii.c]

Arrrrrrrrrrgh

The pen hardly takes up any room in a phablet or tablet. Leave it in.

Making someone pay extra for an item that should be included, is something Apple does, and should not be encouraged! lol

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Interestingly, back when Samsung first started doing this, the license fee for including Wacom technology on a tablet was around $100 per device.

No idea what kind of deal Samsung made for their phablets, but it was amazing that they went ahead and included it as standard.

PS to appleiic -- another cool thing about having the Wacom digitizer built into the device, is that the pen requires no batteries. It draws its power from the digitizer grid itself. That's quite different from the Bluetooth addon pens.

Having the digitizer built in DEFINITELY sounds like a good idea. Good tech to add, I would welcome that. As far as having the pen "permanently there", i'm not sure. For me its a design thing. It would make the device feel too "Palm Pilot/Newton"-y to me. And then you are forcing something onto the users that have no need for it. As you said, it's not Apple's way. Whether it's to charge more, or for simplicity, they wont. Personally I don't like those laptops that have every single port that's still around. VGA port, RJ-35, pcmcia, pci, 12 USB ports, and a slew of others just in case I need it. Its my personal preference and I'm sure others feel differently.

Imagine having a permanent removable laser pointer attached to the phone. If you do lots of presentations it would be a great addition (or if you're an annoying kid at the movies). But for the everyday user, it's just something else to take up space and keep from losing.

 

[sviato]

I've never wanted to use a stylus. Wouldn't your palm/wrist get in the way of writing on a touch screen?

 

[Tech198]

Image

No thanks.

That's harsh..

My wrist would drop off before i finished.

 

[spinedoc77]

I've never wanted to use a stylus. Wouldn't your palm/wrist get in the way of writing on a touch screen?

Does your palm/wrist get in the way when you write a note on a piece of paper?

 

[sviato]

Does your palm/wrist get in the way when you write a note on a piece of paper?

It rests on the paper as I write from the left side of the paper to the right, but paper is not touch sensitive

 

[kdarling]

I've never wanted to use a stylus.

Have you never started on a home improvement project, and drawn a quick room or cabinet or whatever diagram to help when you went to get supplies?

Or had a neat idea for an electronic circuit or art design or whatever and wanted to jot it down?

Wouldn't your palm/wrist get in the way of writing on a touch screen?

Implementations / apps are made to recognize that a pen is being used, and reject palm touches.

Remember, these are NOT JUST A DUMB STYLUS. They are pens electronically connected to the device.

They can be used as pens or air mice. For example, many of them let you use the pen to hover above a web item that only pops up with mouse-over events... which you'd never see with a finger.

 

[spinedoc77]

It rests on the paper as I write from the left side of the paper to the right, but paper is not touch sensitive

Ahh I see the confusion. There is a new technology called palm rejection, well actually it's been around for years but I'm assuming you haven't heard of it. For example, on my Note when I'm in the OneNote app and it detects I'm writing with the stylus it rejects any touches from my finger/palm, etc. You can use your finger to zoom the screen in/out, move the screen around but not write, only the stylus can write. You can still press menu buttons and such though. Similar in SNote as well, it doesn't detect fingers/touch on the canvas if it detects the stylus.

 

[sviato]

Have you never started on a home improvement project, and drawn a quick room or cabinet or whatever diagram to help when you went to get supplies?

Or had a neat idea for an electronic circuit or art design or whatever and wanted to jot it down?

I've always just used paper.

Implementations / apps are made to recognize that a pen is being used, and reject palm touches.

Ah, I see. Does the stylus ensure that only its touches are accepted throughout all apps or does each app have to have the compatibility?

 

[spinedoc77]

I've always just used paper.




Ah, I see. Does the stylus ensure that only its touches are accepted throughout all apps or does each app have to have the compatibility?

What if you don't have paper available? Better yet writing digitally has a LOT of advantages. You can sync it to all your other devices or the web. You can have neat things like rulers, erasers, different ink colors/thickness. You can add pictures, notations, voice recordings, web clippings, web links, videos, etc etc to your notes. You can resize the notes, change order around, add things, remove things, etc. You can search your handwriting for words, etc. These are only some of the advantages, there are many more.

Best of all you save a tree or two if you are into that sort of thing.

 

[LIVEFRMNYC]

XDA Flame, 3.7" 640x480

I had to look that up as I never heard of it. Probably cause it wasn't released for America. Seemed like a monster for it's time.

 

[TheHateMachine]

Ah, I see. Does the stylus ensure that only its touches are accepted throughout all apps or does each app have to have the compatibility?

Samsung has this SPen process that is running the second you remove the stylus. When it detects the pen either on the screen or hovering at a certain level it rejects palm touches. It works on anything and nothing has to be built into the applications.

 

[Zwhaler]

I appreciate the responses but I'm still unclear about the big advantage of having it included in the phone. Not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just genuinely trying to see the value other than a permanent spot for it with the ability to launch a desired app when you pull out the pen. I just don't see a $7 stylus being better than an $80 3rd party offering. No personal attacks like "I'm wearing koolaid glasses" and all that, I'm being serious. Just trying to understand the Stylus feature on the samsung phones.

I completely see a benefit when you are drawing or painting. But not sure of the advantage over a regular external $7 stylus (or my finger) if I'm selecting an app, clicking a spot on the screen, jotting a handwritten note. And if I'm using an app like ArtRage or Paper 53, wouldn't the App itself determine the quality of input?

I'm definitely going to swing by Best Buy in the next couple of days and give the Note 4 a look. I'm obviously missing something with the stylus.

Have you watched the Note 4 S-Pen tutorial? It showcases a lot of nifty features. As for including it with the phone, it is small and light and Samsung wants people to know about it and the way it sets the phone apart from the competition. The S-Pen has been a trademark of the Note series since it started, and they want people to use it even if they think they don't need it, hence why it's included as part of the phone.

 

[rrl]

You can talk about "smart" stylus technology until you're blue in the face, but there are those of us whose productivity goes through the roof with "dumb" stylus technology. The argument ends there. Those that don't understand the need (not want) for a stylus should just sit this one out.

 

[Kendo]

What has to do if they were sold more o less to be available when the iPhone was released?


Or it is that i9f you ddidn't kenw abvout them means that they didn't existed?

No links. Thought so...

 

[Oletros]

No links. Thought so...

No reading the thread, thought so

 

[appleii.c]

You can talk about "smart" stylus technology until you're blue in the face, but there are those of us whose productivity goes through the roof with "dumb" stylus technology. The argument ends there. Those that don't understand the need (not want) for a stylus should just sit this one out.

Some of us do NOT understand the need for a stylus in everyday use, yet we are OPEN to learning different ways of doing things, especially if they are going to improve our productivity. Now if someone is going to be closed-minded to any alternative other than their own ways, then I would agree in them sitting out. No need to close the door on someone who is willing to learn something with an open mind simply because they don't see things your way.

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Have you watched the Note 4 S-Pen tutorial? It showcases a lot of nifty features. As for including it with the phone, it is small and light and Samsung wants people to know about it and the way it sets the phone apart from the competition. The S-Pen has been a trademark of the Note series since it started, and they want people to use it even if they think they don't need it, hence why it's included as part of the phone.

I did, and it had some interesting features. I wasn't sure how that applied to a built in stylus vs a 3rd party one. And, can those same things be done with just a finger?

 

[mrex]

I did, and it had some interesting features. I wasn't sure how that applied to a built in stylus vs a 3rd party one. And, can those same things be done with just a finger?

you can do almost everything with your finger aswell (some features are so called air features and working only with the pen). but the question is, will you prefer write by your fingers or a pen? will you prefer paint by your fingers? etc... with some apps, like photoediting, a pen is much more accurate than a fingertip.

 

[Lloydbm41]

Thanks for the link... that definitely cleared things up. See, all along I thought it was just a stupid stick attached to the phone!

I'm sure if the Note 4 does well, Apple will look to incorporate the tech into future devices. I could definitely see it being a good thing on the iPads. As far as the permanent stylus being on the iPad... I don't see that flying. but it will definitely be an accessory. Maybe magnetically attachable (I think I've seen some like that already). But the screen digitizer, I can see that coming.

I guess my reply to you yesterday regarding this wasn't clarifying enough?

 

[JoeG4]

I have both a Note 2 and a Surface Pro, so I feel like I can comment on this!

I almost never used the note 2's stylus, but most of the time I'm using the surface pro I'm using it because of the stylus, otherwise I'd just use my macbook air.

I think the iPad should have some sort of pen digitizer at the very least. The nice wacom one? That'd be awesome! Imagine how fast a 12" iPad with digitizer would blow up in popularity in the art world.

On the phones it'd be nice but totally not necessary.

 

[acjeffers]

Lol. Yes, Steve Jobs was wrong about the big phone.

But he has been dead and not the CEO of  since 2011. Tim Cook is.

Steve Jobs aside. Regarding the stylus. Looking at sales only. The larger iPhone has been teased in comparison to the Galaxy Note because of its lack of stylus in multiple ads over television, print, social and other media.

Did people take the bait? No. The larger iPhones are the worlds fastest selling phones in history- and they do not come with a stylus! Meanwhile, Samsung, took a 60% profit hit since it's release that it's CEO admitted is in part to do with the larger iPhone. Which, by the way, does not come with a stylus like its flagship Note.

Similarly, I just saw an ad on tv for the SurfacePro3 (this is what reminded me to reply to your email) that boasted of its ability to use a stylus, while the MacBook Air cannot. Are people taking the bait? Again, looking at sales,  became a top 5 PC vendor this quarter. Not behind Microsoft, but behind (OEMs) HP and Lenovo. This is despite the Microsoft stylus ads and that none of Apple's PCs can use a stylus!

 

[flameproof]

A stylus is just another thing you have to carry and have the possibility of losing.

Nope, it sits nicely inside the housing. One can lose it though.

And they SHOULD do a S-Pen like stylus. Remember, you don't have to use it.

 

[Markyboy81]

Nope, it sits nicely inside the housing. One can lose it though.

And they SHOULD do a S-Pen like stylus. Remember, you don't have to use it.

There is no chance of losing it if you don't use it though..

 

[jamezr]

Lol. Yes, Steve Jobs was wrong about the big phone.

But he has been dead and not the CEO of  since 2011. Tim Cook is.

Steve Jobs aside. Regarding the stylus. Looking at sales only. The larger iPhone has been teased in comparison to the Galaxy Note because of its lack of stylus in multiple ads over television, print, social and other media.

Did people take the bait? No. The larger iPhones are the worlds fastest selling phones in history- and they do not come with a stylus! Meanwhile, Samsung, took a 60% profit hit since it's release that it's CEO admitted is in part to do with the larger iPhone. Which, by the way, does not come with a stylus like its flagship Note.

Similarly, I just saw an ad on tv for the SurfacePro3 (this is what reminded me to reply to your email) that boasted of its ability to use a stylus, while the MacBook Air cannot. Are people taking the bait? Again, looking at sales,  became a top 5 PC vendor this quarter. Not behind Microsoft, but behind (OEMs) HP and Lenovo. This is despite the Microsoft stylus ads and that none of Apple's PCs can use a stylus!

I agree with you....the iPhone is the single best selling phone. But sometimes sales do not equate to best......
I will borrow some else's analogy....
McDonalds sell more burgers than anyone else.....
Does that make their burgers better?

 

[appleii.c]

I have both a Note 2 and a Surface Pro, so I feel like I can comment on this!

I almost never used the note 2's stylus, but most of the time I'm using the surface pro I'm using it because of the stylus, otherwise I'd just use my macbook air.

I think the iPad should have some sort of pen digitizer at the very least. The nice wacom one? That'd be awesome! Imagine how fast a 12" iPad with digitizer would blow up in popularity in the art world.

On the phones it'd be nice but totally not necessary.

I guess my reply to you yesterday regarding this wasn't clarifying enough?

Haha, not completely. That link actually broke down the different technologies.

The Digitizer I can totally see as a huge benefit in the iPhone and iPad. Mainly the iPad. I think it would be a hit. But personally, and it's just MY opinion, i would rather have the pen (stylus) itself be an option. Especially on the phones, or at least not something with a permanent space. Let the users decide what to buy and use that extra space for a bigger battery or *cough* more ram .

My MBP doesn't have a built in DVD drive, so I purchased an external BluRay drive for the once every 3 months or more that I need it. I'm OK with that.

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I agree with you....the iPhone is the single best selling phone. But sometimes sales do not equate to best......
I will borrow some else's analogy....
McDonalds sell more burgers than anyone else.....
Does that make their burgers better?

Well, that depends on your definition of better.

Here's MY take on that analogy... Mcdonalds sells billions of burgers each year. to me that means that they are perfect for what they are meant for. No need to change em. I rarely go to McDonalds, but when I do, i go for the greasy burgers, salty fries, and high fructose laden coke. I don't want McDonalds making their burgers "healthier" or using Whole Wheat buns... or cutting down on the sodium of the fries, or using a "healthy" oil alternative to fry them.

So while they may not be the "Best" burgers in some aspects, they sure are one of the best damn "fast food" burgers in town.

 

[mrex]

i would rather have the pen (stylus) itself be an option. Especially on the phones, or at least not something with a permanent space. Let the users decide what to buy and use that extra space for a bigger battery or *cough* more ram .




Here's MY take on that analogy... Mcdonalds sells billions of burgers each year. to me that means that they are perfect for what they are meant for. No need to change em. I rarely go to McDonalds, but when I do, i go for the greasy burgers, salty fries, and high fructose laden coke. I don't want McDonalds making their burgers "healthier" or using Whole Wheat buns... or cutting down on the sodium of the fries, or using a "healthy" oil alternative to fry them.

So while they may not be the "Best" burgers in some aspects, they sure are one of the best damn "fast food" burgers in town.

but md has """health""" food also, so you can decide. apple has made the decision for you in many cases and you dont have an option to choose. you need use 3rd party apps and devices, and they work if they work..

i personally think that apple didnt really understand what a pen can do. they were too narrow-minded and only thought about it as replacing a finger not the possibilities it has. as we can see with Note-serie, the pen isnt just an extension for a finger - it has more functions.