stupidest questions from PC users

[Evangelion]

"Mac's only have one mouse button" (To this argument I prefer to be silent or just say CTRL+CLICK??? And that's not even necessary with the recent Mighty Mouse)

The laptops do have only one mouse-button. And with the Mighty Mouse you need to lift your finger from the left button in order for right-click to work.

No, Ctrl-Click is not the same as second mouse-button. What I would like to see is a real, honest-to-god second mouse button in a Mac. Not this "push down Ctrl-Option-Tab and then click while shaking your laptop sideways"-crap. A real second mouse-button would do just fine, is it REALLY that hard? Ctrl-Click is just a crutch that you have to use in order to work around the fact that the thing only has one mouse-button. Mighty Mouse was a step in the right direction, but it too is crippled in this area.

Yes, the argument that "Macs have only one mouse-button" is a valid one, as far as laptops are concerned. yes, there are means to get to the context-menu (Ctrl-Click), but the fact remains that there is only one mouse-button, plus some workarounds (Ctrl-Click).

 

[Chundles]

The laptops do have only one mouse-button. And with the Mighty Mouse you need to lift your finger from the left button in order for right-click to work.

No, Ctrl-Click is not the same as second mouse-button. What I would like to see is a real, honest-to-god second mouse button in a Mac. Not this "push down Ctrl-Option-Tab and then click while shaking your laptop sideways"-crap. A real second mouse-button would do just fine, is it REALLY that hard? Ctrl-Click is just a crutch that you have to use in order to work around the fact that the thing only has one mouse-button. Mighty Mouse was a step in the right direction, but it too is crippled in this area.

Yes, the argument that "Macs have only one mouse-button" is a valid one, as far as laptops are concerned. yes, there are means to get to the context-menu (Ctrl-Click), but the fact remains that there is only one mouse-button, plus some workarounds (Ctrl-Click).

I only need the one button. Everything else can be handled by keyboard shortcuts and drag/drop.

 

[macman2790]

"iPod makes computers?"

 

[Evangelion]

I only need the one button.

And others need more than one. What is your point?

 

[Chundles]

And others need more than one. What is your point?

No point, was never trying to make one. Just relaying my personal experience.

 

[iBookG4user]

The laptops do have only one mouse-button. And with the Mighty Mouse you need to lift your finger from the left button in order for right-click to work.

No, Ctrl-Click is not the same as second mouse-button. What I would like to see is a real, honest-to-god second mouse button in a Mac. Not this "push down Ctrl-Option-Tab and then click while shaking your laptop sideways"-crap. A real second mouse-button would do just fine, is it REALLY that hard? Ctrl-Click is just a crutch that you have to use in order to work around the fact that the thing only has one mouse-button. Mighty Mouse was a step in the right direction, but it too is crippled in this area.

Yes, the argument that "Macs have only one mouse-button" is a valid one, as far as laptops are concerned. yes, there are means to get to the context-menu (Ctrl-Click), but the fact remains that there is only one mouse-button, plus some workarounds (Ctrl-Click).

I don't need a second mouse button and don't want a second mouse button. Two-fingered click is much more convinient for me at least.

 

[MacBoobsPro]

I only need the one button. Everything else can be handled by keyboard shortcuts and drag/drop.

I have a Mighty Mouse set up as one button

Scroll ball (when pressed) activates Expose - Desktop.
Squeeze activates dashboard.
Control + click does everything else. Like it always has. To be honest though I hardly use it anyway.

The way I see it is your non-mouse hand is already on the keyboard using short-cuts and typing etc so why is it so much of a pain to control click to some people?

It bugs me so much

I do agree about the MM being a bit poo about having to lift your finger. I mailed Apple within 5 minutes of getting mine on the day it came out too. Boom!

 

[2ndPath]

The laptops do have only one mouse-button. And with the Mighty Mouse you need to lift your finger from the left button in order for right-click to work.

No, Ctrl-Click is not the same as second mouse-button. What I would like to see is a real, honest-to-god second mouse button in a Mac. Not this "push down Ctrl-Option-Tab and then click while shaking your laptop sideways"-crap. A real second mouse-button would do just fine, is it REALLY that hard? Ctrl-Click is just a crutch that you have to use in order to work around the fact that the thing only has one mouse-button. Mighty Mouse was a step in the right direction, but it too is crippled in this area.

Yes, the argument that "Macs have only one mouse-button" is a valid one, as far as laptops are concerned. yes, there are means to get to the context-menu (Ctrl-Click), but the fact remains that there is only one mouse-button, plus some workarounds (Ctrl-Click).

Don't be too hard on Apple. After claiming for 20 years that one mouse button is just the best solution for a mouse, they couldn't just introduce a simple second mouse button without losing their face. They had to think of a different solution, which I think for the laptops actually works pretty well (Two-Finger-Click). At least it's much better now than the Control-Click. But I agree, having more than one button, would make it more versatile.

 

[Evangelion]

I don't need a second mouse button and don't want a second mouse button. Two-fingered click is much more convinient for me at least.

And now we have bunch of people telling how THEY don't need a second mouse-button. But the fact remains that whether you guys personally don't need more than one button, does not change the fact that the laptops ship with just one mouse-button. And it also doesn't change the fact that many people would like to have more than one mouse-button.

Any anyone claiming that using some two-fingered-Ctrl-click-thingy instead of real second mouse button, is just deluding themselves.

 

[MacBoobsPro]

And now we have bunch of people telling how THEY don't need a second mouse-button. But the fact remains that whether you guys personally don't need more than one button, does not change the fact that the laptops ship with just one mouse-button. And it also doesn't change the fact that many people would like to have more than one mouse-button.

Any anyone claiming that using some two-fingered-Ctrl-click-thingy instead of real second mouse button, is just deluding themselves.

Ok then. To back up my last post. On a notebook your 'mouse' hand is ALSO on the keyboard so how hard is it to poke out a finger to hit ctrl?

BTW you seem to be confusing two things here. If you are bothered about 'two-fingered-Ctrl-click-thingying' on a notebook go buy a two buttoned mouse and stop complaining about the MM that doesnt even come with a notebook.

 

[gloss]

after working extensively in both systems thinks he's some kind of hacker and that real computer people prefer Windows because it's a "troubling" OS, and it's a challenge to keep it running decently, he somehow likes this "I got a problem, WHOO, let's solve it!".

I have a friend like this too. Great guy, a bit OCD. His XP machine runs like God is tidying the registry.

 

[gloss]

Any anyone claiming that using some two-fingered-Ctrl-click-thingy instead of real second mouse button, is just deluding themselves.

I agreed with you until this point. The right-clicks on laptop trackpads have always struck me as a total pain in the ass. Who wants to contort their thumb that far underneath their hand to bring up a context menu? I'm sure it's fine if you navigate your laptop with two hands, but...

Two-finger right click is so much more ergonomic it's ridiculous, and took me about a day to acclimate to. Given the choice between that or a physical second button now I'd take two-finger click every time. I can't think of a single instance where the physical button would be preferable, except possibly gaming, which no one in their right mind would be doing on a trackpad anyway.

 

[Evangelion]

Ok then. To back up my last post. On a notebook your 'mouse' hand is ALSO on the keyboard so how hard is it to poke out a finger to hit ctrl?

Again, all those things are just a workarounds to the fact that there is no second mouse-button on the machine. It's a lot harder to poke around at the Ctrl and then click on the mouse-button that it would be just to hit the second mouse-button. That is a fact. And is there any indication on the machine itself that hitting Ctrl gives you the context-menu? Nope.

BTW you seem to be confusing two things here. If you are bothered about 'two-fingered-Ctrl-click-thingying' on a notebook go buy a two buttoned mouse and stop complaining about the MM that doesnt even come with a notebook.

How would I go about using an external mouse when sitting in an airplane with the laptop on my lap? Some people actually use laptops while on the road, and using an external mouse on the road is a major hassle.

 

[MacBoobsPro]

Again, all those things are just a workarounds to the fact that there is no second mouse-button on the machine. It's a lot harder to poke around at the Ctrl and then click on the mouse-button that it would be just to hit the second mouse-button. That is a fact. And is there any indication on the machine itself that hitting Ctrl gives you the context-menu? Nope.

Thats what the manual is for.

How would I go about using an external mouse when sitting in an airplane with the laptop on my lap? Some people actually use laptops while on the road, and using an external mouse on the road is a major hassle.

So why are we talking about mice?

 

[Evangelion]

I agreed with you until this point. The right-clicks on laptop trackpads have always struck me as a total pain in the ass.

How can right-clicking be a "pain in the ass", if left-clicking is not? There is no real difference between right-clicking and left-clicking. So how can it be easier to hit Ctrl with one finger, and then hit mouse-button with another finger, as opposed to just hitting the right mouse-button?

Who wants to contort their thumb that far underneath their hand to bring up a context menu? I'm sure it's fine if you navigate your laptop with two hands, but...

Well, I do have two thumbs. When I'm typing, I usually have two thumbs hovering above the mouse-button(s), so there is no difference between hitting the left-key or the right-key.

And still, the fact remains that MacBooks have only one mouse-button.

 

[gloss]

How can right-clicking be a "pain in the ass", if left-clicking is not? There is no real difference between right-clicking and left-clicking. So how can it be easier to hit Ctrl with one finger, and then hit mouse-button with another finger, as opposed to just hitting the right mouse-button?



Well, I do have two thumbs. When I'm typing, I usually have two thumbs hovering above the mouse-button(s), so there is no difference between hitting the left-key or the right-key.

And still, the fact remains that MacBooks have only one mouse-button.

I'm not referring to CTRL-clicking, but to the feature on the newer Mac laptops where you can right click simply by having two fingers touching the trackpad and then clicking the mouse button. I use the trackpad with my middle finger, so my index is always hovering directly above the pad anyway. To right click, I simply drop my index and click the single button with my thumb. Voila. Context menus.

Right-clicking with a physical button involves me having to tuck my thumb in underneath the palm of my hand in order to actually hit the button. Left clicking is easier because the button falls directly where the natural position of the thumb is.

So, yes, MacBooks only have one mouse button, but the alternative they offer is superior.

 

[Evangelion]

I'm not referring to CTRL-clicking, but to the feature on the newer Mac laptops where you can right click simply by having two fingers touching the trackpad and then clicking the mouse button.

If you are willing to go through all that trouble, why not simply have two mouse-buttons? Instead of this "place your finger here, move the other finger over here and then click", why not implement the easy and simple solution and have two, real, honest-to-god mouse-buttons? Why do we have to have these convulted schemes where you have to go through all kinds of extra steps just to right-click?

So, yes, MacBooks only have one mouse button, but the alternative they offer is superior.

The alternative they offer is a workaround to the fact that they only have a one button.

 

[gloss]

If you are willing to go through all that trouble, why not simply have two mouse-buttons? Instead of this "place your finger here, move the other finger over here and then click", why not implement the easy and simple solution and have two, real, honest-to-god mouse-buttons? Why do we have to have these convulted schemes where you have to go through all kinds of extra steps just to right-click?



The alternative they offer is a workaround to the fact that they only have a one button.

I guess until you've used it a while you're going to be a skeptic.

It's not 'place your finger here and move your other finger here', it's 'allow two of your fingers to touch the pad rather than one, and click'. Any two. You could drop your pinky down if your geometry finds it more comfortable. I'm not sure how else to explain it, but suffice it to say it's just as quick and way more ergonomic than 'tuck your thumb underneath your hand and click at an odd angle that encourages carpal tunnel'.

Just because two mouse buttons is the norm doesn't mean it's a necessity. I have the same functionality as a Dell user, and without the digit contortion. You sound like those people who complained when Apple dropped the floppy drive from the iMac. Sure they did, but these days, who misses it?

Keep in mind that mouse-wise, I'd still take a nice Logitech over a Mighty Mouse.

 

[Evangelion]

I'm not sure how else to explain it, but suffice it to say it's just as quick and way more ergonomic than 'tuck your thumb underneath your hand and click at an odd angle that encourages carpal tunnel'.

I'm not sure how you click on your mouse-buttons, but I do it with my thumbs. Left thumb for left button, right thumb for right button. Why does right-clicking induce carpal tunnel, whereas left-clicking does not? The actualy procedure is identical, only the finger is different.

 

[gloss]

I'm not sure how you click on your mouse-buttons, but I do it with my thumbs. Left thumb for left button, right thumb for right button. Why does right-clicking induce carpal tunnel, whereas left-clicking does not? The actualy procedure is identical, only the finger is different.

Ah, there you go. See, I do all my touchpad navigation with my right hand. My left generally sits happily on the keyboard awaiting input. So, to hit a right-click button I physically have to move my thumb more or less underneath the rest of my hand and then click with the side of the thumb.

If you try doing things one-handed you might see the advantages I'm speaking of. On the other hand, using the touchpad in your fashion would be just as easy with distinct mouse buttons.

Way to defuse the discussion!

 

[Swarmlord]

I'm too used to using a two button mouse to live with a one button mouse and force myself to remember to press CNTL while I'm clicking. Granted, it wouldn't be that big a deal if all I was doing was word processing or something like that, but I play WoW on my computer and my left hand has plenty to keep it busy performing all my moving and attacking without having to find the CNTL key every time I want to loot a body.

 

[Evangelion]

Ah, there you go. See, I do all my touchpad navigation with my right hand. My left generally sits happily on the keyboard awaiting input.

Well, I have BOTH my hands at the keyboard, waiting for the input. And I can mouse at the same time. And I can easily hit both mouse-buttons at the same time. So what are the "advantages" that you speak of? It seems that I would have to dedicate one hand to the mouse, and one hand to the keyboard, when instead I could just have two hands at the keyboard, and I could still mouse around easily, and use two mouse-buttons.

Where is the advantage?

So, to hit a right-click button I physically have to move my thumb more or less underneath the rest of my hand and then click with the side of the thumb.

Well, I don't.

If you try doing things one-handed you might see the advantages I'm speaking of.

Why should go one-handed, when I could use both?

 

[gloss]

Well, I have BOTH my hands at the keyboard, waiting for the input. And I can mouse at the same time. And I can easily hit both mouse-buttons at the same time. So what are the "advantages" that you speak of? It seems that I would have to dedicate one hand to the mouse, and one hand to the keyboard, when instead I could just have two hands at the keyboard, and I could still mouse around easily, and use two mouse-buttons.

Where is the advantage?



Well, I don't.



Why should go one-handed, when I could use both?

Much of my laptop use is very casual, and the majority of it requires either keyboard alone (Quicksilver, papers and whatnot) or mousing alone (browsing the news). I don't see a particular need to have both my hands on the computer at all times. Your usage obviously dictates otherwise. For me, it's uncomfortable and unnecessary.

I think, though, we should agree to disagree, since we obviously both have our own way of interacting with the machine. Apple's solution not only works like a charm for me, but is preferable to having a distinct second mouse button. This obviously isn't the case for you. I think the point's been well-covered.

(p.s., my off the record response is 'Why would you use two hands, when you can use one?')

 

[Evangelion]

(p.s., my off the record response is 'Why would you use two hands, when you can use one?')

Because I type about twice as fast with two hands than I do with just one?

 

[gloss]

Because I type about twice as fast with two hands than I do with just one?

So does most of the rest of the world.

But...two hands on my touchpad in addition to two hands on my keyboard. Why not two hands on the keyboard and one hand on the trackpad when needed?

Anyway, this is totally pointless. I'm pretty sure we've both made our points. This isn't going to go anywhere except both of us thinking the other person is a stubborn ass.

So, stupid PC user stories!