Surface Devices

[Queen6]

I'm very mixed on all the AI bits, but the hardware and overall solution offering looks compelling and I'll be keeping a close eye on this.

I have LONG wanted an iPad that could do all the iPad usage stuff, but also run macOS (or at least macOS apps) and be my one single computing solution.

Tablet usage when I want and then docked it could be my full blown computer.

The coup de grace to solve all my needs

Apple seems uninterested in anything beyond selling me the maximum # of discrete devices.
They want to solve their own financial issues more than my issues as a customer

The smart consumer keeps their eyes open and finds the best tool to do the jobs.

My loyalty to Apple at this point is basically zero
They've totally lost my loyalty with their direction over the last 14 years

I'm good with the A.I. aspect, it has huge potential. Difference being is the A.I. on my box I control and it solely works for me. Apple, Google & Microsoft's vison's are self-serving at best, I dont need them to function or prosper.

My loyalty is to "mine" not some money grabbing faceless corporation. In fact I'm their worst customer as I use them and they are not in any position to manipulate me...

Q-6

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I am referring to the ARM devices in the discussion. Their target market is primarily the home users with these devices. Of course, Corporate, Azure, and other areas are their top earners. Corporate users won't allow things like recall on their devices. That is why there was a previous event for corporate devices, they have been kept very separate.

Gotcha. Given that, I agree with you. That said, it will be interesting to see what happens when there is a conflict between departments, or when cuts are needed. Historically (RIP Windows Testers), Windows has not fared well.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I'm very mixed on all the AI bits, but the hardware and overall solution offering looks compelling and I'll be keeping a close eye on this.

I have LONG wanted an iPad that could do all the iPad usage stuff, but also run macOS (or at least macOS apps) and be my one single computing solution.

Tablet usage when I want and then docked it could be my full blown computer.

The coup de grace to solve all my needs

Apple seems uninterested in anything beyond selling me the maximum # of discrete devices.
They want to solve their own financial issues more than my issues as a customer

The smart consumer keeps their eyes open and finds the best tool to do the jobs.

My loyalty to Apple at this point is basically zero
They've totally lost my loyalty with their direction over the last 14 years

The problem is I am not sure I like Microsoft’s direction either? Look at Onedrive and CSAM and user privacy with end-to-end encryption. It doesn’t exactly bode well given our AI future.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The problem is I am not sure I like Microsoft’s direction either? Look at Onedrive and CSAM and user privacy with end-to-end encryption. It doesn’t exactly bode well given our AI future.

Well, honestly, none of it looks good

Personally I don't trust Apple any more than the others

I think they are very comfortable not being 100% open with us about what they are doing or not and what access governments actually get

 

[Queen6]

I am referring to the ARM devices in the discussion. Their target market is primarily the home users with these devices. Of course, Corporate, Azure, and other areas are their top earners. Corporate users won't allow things like recall on their devices. That is why there was a previous event for corporate devices, they have been kept very separate.

target market

The problem is I am not sure I like Microsoft’s direction either? Look at Onedrive and CSAM and user privacy with end-to-end encryption. It doesn’t exactly bode well given our AI future.

If your OK with being used, was done with that years ago...

Q-6

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Well, honestly, none of it looks good

Personally I don't trust Apple any more than the others

I think they are very comfortable not being 100% open with us about what they are doing or not and what access governments actually get

Oh I agree, but if we go by what each company is clear about stating publicly and on the record, we have Apple enacting advanced user protection and backing down from CSAM. Then we have Microsoft proud of its lack of end to end encryption for Onedrive and CSAM.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

target market

If your OK with being used, was done with that years ago...

Q-6

That’s why I don’t use it except for gaming and only with encrypted DNS and Chris Titus’s tool.

 

[turbineseaplane]

if we go by what each company is clear about stating publicly and on the record

I don't go by that...I guess is what I'm saying - 😂

 

[Queen6]

Well, honestly, none of it looks good

Personally I don't trust Apple any more than the others

I think they are very comfortable not being 100% open with us about what they are doing or not and what access governments actually get

Self-serving hypocritical liars, if you buy into their rhetoric you deserve all you get. Sadly 1984 is already here, no thx to the sheep...

Q-6

 

[eltoslightfoot]

All of this has gotten a bit off-topic hasn't it? None of us are clearly using Surface Devices at this point?

 

[Queen6]

This is the Apple I cherish as it once stood for something.

Today Apple is just another faceless corporation who cares nothing about the customer outside of their spending capacity...

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

All of this has gotten a bit off-topic hasn't it? None of us are clearly using Surface Devices at this point?

I beg to differ; the old 2016 Surface Book came home to roost and is now our online media server. It partner in crime is a 2011 15" MBP which deals with all the offline content. Never throw good hardware away, way better to repurpose

Q-6

 

[eltoslightfoot]

I beg to differ; the old 2016 Surface Book came home to roost and is now our online media server. It partner in crime is a 2011 15" MBP which deals with all the offline content. Never throw good hardware away, way better to repurpose

Q-6

Well yeah I mean I have old Surfaces doing piddly stuff too, but that isn't exactly using the machines to their fullest.

Although I went with an Unraid Server on an old gaming PC I had instead for Jellyfin, etc.,

 

[Queen6]

Well yeah I mean I have old Surfaces doing piddly stuff too, but that isn't exactly using the machines to their fullest.

Although I went with an Unraid Server on an old gaming PC I had instead for Jellyfin, etc.,

They are long surpassed as professional tools, equally not unusable for many other tasks. Don't see what your issue is, or does running the system at 100% have some special meaning for you 🤔

Q-6

 

[eltoslightfoot]

They are long surpassed as professional tools, equally not unusable for many other tasks. Don't see what your issue is, or does running the system at 100% have some special meaning for you 🤔

Q-6

I just thought it was funny we were all excoriating Microsoft in a thread about Surfaces. No issue here.

 

[bgarnett]

I've the Surface Pro 8 in addition to my MBP M1 Pro and quite like it. I was going to upgrade the Pro 8 to the newly announced Surface Laptop but the cost to go 32GB is considerably more, photocopying Apple much?? So now, I am thinking the Lenovo Yoga 7x which comes in $600 less, has OLED with higher res display and potentially a faster version of the Elite processor. I'd order now were I not heading overseas so close to the release date.

 

[LeeW]

photocopying Apple much??

They all start at 16GB, so not copying that much.

 

[jb310]

I personally don't care one way or the other about Microsoft's new AI features, but the new Surface devices look really good. 👀

And more ARM-based processors with better battery life is great news to me. The transition away from Intel has been long overdue.

 

[Queen6]

They all start at 16GB, so not copying that much.

16Gb will equate to a SLM a local LLM requires a minimum 16GB of dedicated RAM as of 2024. Over 40gb RAM isn't even enough to guarantee solid performance once A.I. is an aspect of the equation...

As ever Smoke & Mirrors to push sales...

Q-6

 

[LeeW]

As ever Smoke & Mirrors to push sales...

Are you having a bad week?

I am saying that as a functional device, it comes standard with 16GB RAM, and Apple is still pushing out 8GB RAM on everything, even so-called Pro devices. Forget AI; these still have the potential to be excellent devices for everything most people use a laptop for today.

 

[super chimp]

I've the Surface Pro 8 in addition to my MBP M1 Pro and quite like it. I was going to upgrade the Pro 8 to the newly announced Surface Laptop but the cost to go 32GB is considerably more, photocopying Apple much?? So now, I am thinking the Lenovo Yoga 7x which comes in $600 less, has OLED with higher res display and potentially a faster version of the Elite processor. I'd order now were I not heading overseas so close to the release date.

Don’t Lenovo have a bit of a bad rep when it comes to their hardware reliability? Mind you my Dell laptop hasn’t exactly been stellar in this regard.

 

[Queen6]

Are you having a bad week?

I am saying that as a functional device, it comes standard with 16GB RAM, and Apple is still pushing out 8GB RAM on everything, even so-called Pro devices. Forget AI; these still have the potential to be excellent devices for everything most people use a laptop for today.

I'm saying 16gb isn't going to be a game changer in this context nor will the local A.I. as it will be functional at best, but you can buy into into it if you want and enjoy being the product...

Q-6

 

[Technerd108]

I'm saying 16gb isn't going to be a game changer in this context nor will the local A.I. as it will be functional at best, but you can buy into into it if you want and enjoy being the product...

Q-6

If you look at the previous gen laptop 5 and compare it with the new Copilot surface laptops there are a lot of improvements besides just the processor. Then the new processor may be a game changer?

AI in Operating systems is already here and widespread in use. You being the product has been a thing since Facebook became popular and has only increased since then?

16gb ram should not be a huge limit if the NPU is strong enough. It will depend on what you are doing but 16gb should be enough for most people as a base and they can get more if they want. 16gb as a base of ram is also a big change from the 8gb standard.

So I don't see much doom and gloom here. If the business edition laptop 6 would have been similar to this edition copilot edition for consumers then I would be upset.

Even the copilot Laptop 13" 1tb, 32gb ram with x Elite is $1799 with student discount which I think is very reasonable.

So maybe AI is giving you a bad vibe but for now most of it is containable and as time goes on and it becomes even more integrated I don't think you will have much choice although I bet there will be a few Linux distro's who refuse to integrate AI and that would always be an option on another PC.

However, if you like Surface Pro and Laptop then this new gen with Snapdragon looks really exciting regardless of AI.

 

[Queen6]

If you look at the previous gen laptop 5 and compare it with the new Copilot surface laptops there are a lot of improvements besides just the processor. Then the new processor may be a game changer?

AI in Operating systems is already here and widespread in use. You being the product has been a thing since Facebook became popular and has only increased since then?

16gb ram should not be a huge limit if the NPU is strong enough. It will depend on what you are doing but 16gb should be enough for most people as a base and they can get more if they want. 16gb as a base of ram is also a big change from the 8gb standard.

So I don't see much doom and gloom here. If the business edition laptop 6 would have been similar to this edition copilot edition for consumers then I would be upset.

Even the copilot Laptop 13" 1tb, 32gb ram with x Elite is $1799 with student discount which I think is very reasonable.

So maybe AI is giving you a bad vibe but for now most of it is containable and as time goes on and it becomes even more integrated I don't think you will have much choice although I bet there will be a few Linux distro's who refuse to integrate AI and that would always be an option on another PC.

However, if you like Surface Pro and Laptop then this new gen with Snapdragon looks really exciting regardless of AI.

Not dead against, however MSFT doesn't get an automatic pass by any means and if there are alternatives they too should be explored.

I'm already using A.I. only I need to veto it's communications and MSFT's generates no hype here and given the track record of such companies being cautious cost noting...

Q-6

 

[Melbourne Park]

I've the Surface Pro 8 in addition to my MBP M1 Pro and quite like it. I was going to upgrade the Pro 8 to the newly announced Surface Laptop but the cost to go 32GB is considerably more, photocopying Apple much?? So now, I am thinking the Lenovo Yoga 7x which comes in $600 less, has OLED with higher res display and potentially a faster version of the Elite processor. I'd order now were I not heading overseas so close to the release date.

About Apple pricing versus M$, can the user replace the drive in the new surfaces? I've seen a slot for accessing the NVME ... for storage then, Microsoft seem to allowing a low cost upgrade, and long term security. I know less about the RAM upgrade issues. With Apple, RAM is soldered to their motherboard.