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Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
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Check out this newsIt looks like Snapdragon X will face a lot of competition like Intel’s forthcoming Lunar Lake CPU.
Intel’s going inside AI PCs, too — its Lunar Lake chip is coming later this year
The AI PC battle has just begun.www.theverge.com
This is Lunar Lake — Intel’s utterly overhauled AI laptop chip that ditches memory sticks
40-plus TOPS of AI performance is just the beginning.
www.theverge.com
The biggest change? If you buy a Lunar Lake laptop, it won’t have separate memory sticks or chips! Lunar Lake now bakes 16 or 32GB of LPDDR5X memory into the package itself, with no ability to connect more RAM. It’s a change that reduces the power consumption of moving data through the system by approximately 40 percent, according to Intel. For those who need more memory, Hallock says a separate Arrow Lake architecture is coming to laptops later this year.
Here’s an early glimpse at a real Lunar Lake chip, where you can clearly see its two chunks of onboard memory below the main silicon. Image: Intel
If Intel can actually stick to the release schedule they have publicly stated then I will be impressed. I have no doubt these chips will be much more efficient and could honestly be a game changer on x64. I have Meteor Lake and the efficiency gains are impressive over last year so it is possible these claims are true. Personally I don't care much about the NPU but the graphics and CPU with lower power consumption could be a game changer finally!!!!Check out this news
Facing the existential threat of Arm and the opportunity of AI PCs, Intel has apparently ditched its famous tick-tock cadence for a whole new system-on-chip design, one that not only triples the size and more than quadruples the performance of its AI accelerator, but promises up to 14 percent faster CPU performance at the same clockspeed, 50 percent more graphics performance, and up to 60 percent better battery life than last year’s model. “It’s x86 power like you’ve never seen it before,” claims Intel technical marketer Rob Hallock, who says Intel tweaked every part of the chip to make it happen. He says it’ll “definitely” beat Qualcomm, too.This is Lunar Lake — Intel’s utterly overhauled AI laptop chip that ditches memory sticks
40-plus TOPS of AI performance is just the beginning.
The biggest change? If you buy a Lunar Lake laptop, it won’t have separate memory sticks or chips! Lunar Lake now bakes 16 or 32GB of LPDDR5X memory into the package itself, with no ability to connect more RAM. It’s a change that reduces the power consumption of moving data through the system by approximately 40 percent, according to Intel. For those who need more memory, Hallock says a separate Arrow Lake architecture is coming to laptops later this year.
Here’s an early glimpse at a real Lunar Lake chip, where you can clearly see its two chunks of onboard memory below the main silicon. Image: Intel
I am not so sure on the claims of beating Qualcomm as by the time Lunar Lake is in laptops QC will have a new Elite processor which could still best Intel for efficiency and performance.
We will see. Exciting times. There is no better Intel than an Intel with it's back against the wall! Unless Intel has a lot of pressure to innovate we get very iterative updates but when they face enough competition they actually become competitive.
So when are the pre-orders going to ship? Today is the 12th and they say they will deliver by the 18th. So they should start shipping soon if not already for some people. Maybe some will get their orders early?
Would be nice to see a Surface Copilot Laptop in real life. I like the sapphire or blue color.
Would be nice to see a Surface Copilot Laptop in real life. I like the sapphire or blue color.
Yup, was reading some reports today, performance quite low and battery life, while better than the ultra intel series, still lags behind the m series chips. See how that all turns out once more reviews pop up, but a rocky start for sure
Care to share any links? Can't find any recent benchmarks. All reports on Elite x are from May that are the latest I can find.
Thanks
Snapdragon X Elite in the wild is allegedly slower than iPhone 12 — first benchmarks of Samsung Book4 Edge disappoint
Wait for firmware updates before condemnation
I saw two or three reports, but all on my phone, can't remember all but that was one above ^
The early reports are not great, but I am not judging just yet. There could be many reasons why these initial reports are not looking as good, it could be multiple stories from the same tests. Nothing like a poorly configured device to cause poor results that make it look bad.
I'm staying open-minded until we see more.
Supposedly graphics performance issues were resolved with a driver update. The CPU side isn't able to clock up on them for some reason, maybe that's a driver issue too
The way I see is that Microsoft got tired of Intel continually promising a revolutionary Ultra chip that would outperform Arm but those promises never happened ... so M$ eventually responded and is tailoring Windoze to Arm. And that is good for the consumer, surely. And maybe it's accelerated Intel who otherwise would have continued to be way behind schedule ... and we still do not know whether Intel's promises will actually perform. And if power efficient and fast processors will all end up with soldered drives and RAM, that will be expensive for the consumer IMO, but at least with RAM, it appears will save battery life. Although I do not know why ...
Intel was the clear market leader, however due to greed & hubris sandbag'd itself resultantly is now on the heel to catch up...
Q-6
Q-6
Intel was, and arguably still is, the market leader in sheer processor performance.
The problem is, most people nowadays are using some sort of battery powered device and Intel never quite figured out how to not chew them up while delivering that performance.
Even after all these years, they are still primarily a desktop processor company.
New Surfaces are out today. I’m going to the shop shortly to have a look. I hope they are not too good or I might be tempted.
Never had one, but I sure would like one. My preference would be one of the business models where they focus more on productivity than new colors.’ 😐
Shows the difference between iPad hype and Surface - my local shop had nothing on display. They had stock out the back but nothing to show me. I’ll wait for the reviews.
I just seen dave2d review an ASUS with the new elite chip and he appeared very impressed with it overall in terms of performance and battery life. Even x86 emulation was good or better than expected but emulation is still emulation.
Yeah I have a feeling that the people who think this is 100% ready to take on Apple Silicon and be blitzkrieg amazing right now are going to be disappointed.
Those that accept it as better than what came before—at least marginally, are probably going to be happier.
Those that accept it as better than what came before—at least marginally, are probably going to be happier.
Never really understood that. I mean, when the M series chip came out people on this forum were predicting a huge shift to Apple by Windows users. Why? Those that didn’t use Apple were not waiting on the M chip, they had many other reasons not to want macOS or an Apple device.
With these devices the only real comparison is with Intel and AMD, not Apples M series. It’s looking good, but it stage one and a lot more to see yet. Qualcomm could give us the Elite X 3 right now just as Apple could give us M5, but that would mean less money, so..
That said, a reasonable shift to ARM on the Windows side is going to result in far more effort from developers to provide native ARM software far more than Apple could ever have influenced them so everyone should be pleased with that.
And then there’s this little issue with an exploit in M series chips (1-3) that apparently can’t be fixed via firmware update and which Apple has been absolutely silent about ever since it was discovered and published in December …
Makes me feel really good about buying my M2 MBA. Yep, just the level of support I was expecting from Apple… /s
If I was shopping for a laptop now, I am not sure I’d be jumping ship from Windows like I did then.
I did the opposite of you and ditched all my Apple gear-okay in the process of selling but I am not using it anymore. Had a MacBook air M2 512/16gb midnight and an Ipad air 5th gen. I may keep the iPad just to have access to Apple ecosystem and I genuinely like the iPad for what I use it for.
But to be honest I don't miss my Mac at all. M series chips are good. But Intel and AMD are not trash. The Intel Ultra 7 is a decent chip and Intel should be coming out with Lunar Lake which should be the first to truly compete with m series chips. The Ultra 7 was a really good step in the right direction. Efficiency is finally not bad and thermals are not a toaster and performance is good. The next gen should focus more on performance as this gen was more focused on efficiency and graphics. Graphics on Ultra 7 are the best from Intel integrated graphics ever and don't totally suck for the first time and this will also get better next gen.
I have a Samsung GalaxyBook 4 Pro with an 16" OLED 3k 120hz anti-reflective touch screen, Ultra 7, 16gb ram and 1 tb ssd and a free 2 tb portable ssd. Cost me about $200 more than my previous air and it is a better laptop in almost every way. Battery life on M2 is still better but not by a big margin. I get about 12 hours on my air the way I use it. I get about 10 on my GB4. Not a huge difference in real life and the Ultra 7 is faster and has a better GPU than M2, M3 is faster in single core but slower in multi core and GPU. The M3 Pro is the chip that bests the Ultra on most fronts.
My point is that Intel and AMD have finally reached a close enough competitive level both in terms of performance and efficiency that m series is not the leap it was a few years ago.
Windows is Windows and the Windows as a service business model has only made Windows become an Ad platform. However, at least you can disable it. Overall as an OS Windows 11 is pretty good. I like MacOS look better and before they changed the setting menu thought they had a better organized menu system than Windows with ancient and new UI elements in the mix. But in terms of utility and ease of use I find Windows to be better. I have more control over Windows and can modify it to suit my needs rather easily. There are things I would like to see change but it is stable, secure and gets out of my way. MacOS on the other hand wants to get in my way and make sure I know I am using a Mac and it bothers me.
At the end of the day, your M2 MBA is still a very good laptop and will be for years to come. The chip vulnerabilities you mentioned are bad and can be executed remotely unlike what a lot of people say. It is a huge security issue and of course Apple is crickets. However, I honestly think the risk to most people is low. But they said the same thing with the Spectre flaw in Intel and AMD and ANdroid devices years ago. I sold everything I had with those known vulnerabilities. Did I need to? Probably not but I don't like hardware security holes. Obviously all chips have undiscovered hardware security holes but that is another topic.
Yes Windows becoming an ad service is annoying, but yes it can be easily disabled. I bought W11 Pro license for my desktop, less than $40 on SlackSocial (absolutely legit). This gives me more control over the OS plus full disk encryption. MS Power Toys bring Spotlight-like global search (among other nifty things), and Rainmaker helps with making it really pretty at practically no resource cost.
So, it’s good to know that the new laptops have decent battery life. Two years ago when I bought my M2 MBA it was very hard to find a Windows laptop whose battery life was anywhere close to the stated specs.
And of course OneDrive runs circles around iCloud.
Integration with mobile devices is where Apple still has a major advantage. If I was jumping the ship once again, I’d probably have to go with Android to get a similar level of integration with a Windows laptop. Not sure whether I am ready for that yet.
Will keep an eye on GoFetch developments.
I feel exactly the same way. I started out on an Apple IIc, and I subsequently purchased the 1st Gen Mac. Been with them ever since, and I’ve had nearly every Mac thereafter. I still have my last 2008 Mac Pro tucked away in the factory box along with the 1st Gen Intel MacBook (that name still sounds funky to me). Now days, I’ve been relegated to the iPad line for the last few years and they’re just Okay. Frankly, I’m not interested in any Mac made today. I remain tempted to get back into a real computer and the Surface ‘business’ line will be my preferred choice. Oh well, let the poison pens fly. 🤷♂️Update, i visited Currys PC world (a UK electronics store in the U.K) and played around with both the Surface Pro and the SurfaceBook, i have to say that i was surprised at how impressed i was with both devices. I haven't used a Windows machine since 2011 BUT it's clear that the Surface devices have moved Windows along nicely.
The pro's that i noticed:
The only thing that i wasn't impressed with was on the SurfaceBook when i used the touchscreen it seemed a lot more wobbly than on the Surface Pro.
- Very well built, sturdy and Apple like in their luxury build quality
- Windows seemed very well implemented for touch (which surprised me a lot)
- Display quality was easily on par with the MacBook Pro - seemed really high res
- touch display worked well - much better than i had thought it would
- The keyboard was really good to type on and didn't feel flimsy or as cheap as it looks
- The design is even more good looking in person
- The kick stand works really well AND it feels sturdy not some cheap plastic back that would break
Overall as a long time Apple Mac user (since 2011) i was very impressed and i'm not ashamed to say that i think i was WRONG in my initial thoughts (dare i say hating comments?) on the Surface Pro a few months back.
If Microsoft invest in this BIG time and continue the push with it i can see it being a great product that sells very well over time, and i think it will take time but more and more people will probably take to the product. Just think if a big Apple fan like me was impressed, then what will the average consumer or non Apple fans think?
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Well, I have a Surface Pro 8, i9, 32GB that was bought new (business device)
It does have issues:
- Battery life claimed by MS was "up to 16 hrs". Real life use - never went above 3-4 hrs, typically drops from 100% to below 50% in an hour long Teams meeting. This is pretty typical for other Surface Pro users in our company. This is the biggest problem with it.
- A high number of Surfaces in our company experienced swollen battery after 2 years or so. Mine is holding up fine so far.
- The screen orientation sensor is very iffy and hyper sensitive. When trying to use in tablet mode, it often just arbitrarily switches orientation in the middle of me marking something up. This is very annoying. It also often arbitrarily switches the Surface display to Portrait when I connect it to the dock (so my two external monitors are in Landscape but Surface screen is sideways even though device itself is in portrait orientation). Need to undock, rotate it until it corrects the orientation, then dock again.
- Windows is still not well optimized for tablets. Switching screen orientation is slow and laggy even when it doesn't get confused. Many dialog elements are still too small for touch use. Taking a photo and marking it up requires more steps than on the iPad.
- There's not nearly as many well designed ink apps as on iPadOS (such as Goodnotes, Notability, or a bunch of others). I tried using a few available apps to mark up drawings in field, and had crashes and memory issues (Inkodo, Xjournal++, and a paid app that I forgot the name of).
- Overall, it's not a tablet. Too heavy, too bulky, Windows in tablet mode feels clumsy. It's a laptop that can be used in tablet mode but will not replace a dedicated table.
I am still opened to the idea of buying a Windows laptop to replace my MacBook at some point. But it will not be MS branded, I don't trust their hardware and after they dropped support for expensive Cortana enabled devices I don't trust them either.
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