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Surface Pro 4 vs iPad Pro and the future of pro tablets
- Thread starter Wiesenlooser
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I'm not quite *that* geeky, but I did feel for a long time that Macs were unintuitive and preferred Windows. I did start using iPods with the first iPod nano, but that didn't motivate me to start using OS X. From the nano, I moved to iPod touch, and that's when I started feeling that this was where computing was headed. And when Steve Jobs announced the iPad, I knew that was the device I've wanted ever since I got my first computer. I got the iPad, and later that year I got an iMac, on which I at first used mostly Windows through Bootcamp. Over the years I've gradually spent more and more time in OS X and less in Bootcamp, mainly because Apple kept adding more features integrating iOS and OS X, but also because I hated Windows 8, and Windows 10 hasn't done much to convince me to give Microsoft another chance. The final straw was when Internet Explorer on Windows 7 just stopped working one day. I deleted my Windows partition and now have OS X only on my iMac. My MacBook Air, which I keep at my office is still running Windows 7. I only use it to do my work-related tasks. I'm not ruling out going back to Windows some day, but I'm enjoying seeing how far I can get just with OS X.
I've been a Mac User for over 20 years now (as a Mac being my primary machine) however I started off with a ZX81 and then had a yearly or bi-annual update cycle covering likes of Sinclair Spectrum 48k, Commodore 64, Acorn Electron, BBC Micro, Commodore 128, Atari ST, Amiga ...
After the Amiga I got my first PC - which back then was assembled locally rather than pre-built. Had to learn the innards and then next machine I built myself... Eventually when I went to Art College they used Macs. I didn't find them unintuitive at all, just different. I always find the common ground and there is a lot more common ground between devices than differences (same now with iOS & android).
Since University I've basically been in Mac (starting with end of system 7, onto OS 8, OS9 then OSX) as my platform work wise and because printed media / graphic design / digital editing & video it's pretty much the platform of choice production wise.
That being said I've always kept using PC's and now living in a rural area I'm constantly fixing PC's and mostly from software issues where you have to learn everything I/O about the OS
A few years back Microsoft awarded me an MVP in Macintosh - at the time the only MVP for Mac platform in UK & Ireland. I did that role for a few years until work commitment meant I could no longer spend my free time fixing others Mac / Microsoft software issues. Likewise if I was in a wider 'geek' network - the MVP Award might have meant more work wise, as it stands in a rural county with a bunch of farmers - it's means little to your work load as no -one knows what a Mucrosoft MVP is.
So yeah my computer history clearly makes me a big geek, and the MVP award did cement that as it meant a big company recognised that I was one too and the fact my geekiness has always been so diverse probably explains why I like having multiple mobile devices with one as my base and others constantly changing around that.
OS X is my base OS computer wise, IOS for sheer integration my base mobile OS - but will constantly dabble with the other side on a daily basis on mobile and weekly via computer (as I now look after the local national schools servicing and repairing their computers and I am - not out of choice - the local go to person people turn up-to on the doorstep with a laptop or desktop out of the blue with issues on an often most irritating time basis) ... When most of my integrations with Windows is fixing stuff - it's nice to go back to MacOS for me and not have so much hassle though as Mac's have become mainstream and more common place I do get to see a few macs each year that people have messed up and O have to rectify ....
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Reviews are helpful for gaging the extent of the "teething pains". My first-hand experiences with Microsoft Surfaces have shown me that it is generally best to wait 6 months after initial release before purchasing one. Customer reviews have confirmed that for me as ratings rose to an acceptable level by the end of that 6th month period. However with the SP4 it looks like it will take a bit longer.
The sad thing is that it seems like power management issues plague every generation of Surface device at the beginning of each gen. I would think that they'd have nailed things down by now so that it isn't "a thing" anymore.
Sure it has, you need to stop kidding yourself. Oh Apple didn't comment on antennagate?!? They didn't comment on the IPP waking up to a black screen? How about the maps fiasco? We could go on, but it's idiotic to think that ANY technology product is going to launch without issues. Microsoft has addressed most of the issues, just as Apple has. Methinks you are the one high/drunk on Apple Koolaid where Apple can do no wrong, loosen up the blinders.
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That's cool, I'm just glad we have a choice for things like that. It's nice to have the fierce competition and we all benefit from it.
I'm not sure what power management issues you refer to. Our sp4 is used continuously; more like a laptop and my wife loves using it. We did have a hardware problem with the display and when we brought it back to the MS store, they agreed and exchanged it. But the big issue seems to have been display driver issues with HYPER-V.
Has been pointed out, Apple isn't immune to this stuff either.
BTW love the town of Prescott, been there a few times.
The power management issues regarding connected standby (or not) resulted in "hot bag" situations where the Surface didn't go to sleep nor connected standby but remained on, draining the battery... resulting in a "hot" computer bag. It would also occur while devices were left unplugged on a desk only to have the owner discover the next morning that their Surface had drained upwards of 80% overnight. It's happened with every generation of Surface but seems a bit worse with the SP4.
I never said nor implied that Apple was any better. I usually wait 3 months before buying an iPad simply to maximize the probability of receiving a unit without or minimal light bleed. (I guess that implies that Apple is better since I don't have to wait 6 months like I do for the Surface)
Prescott is a nice town, far, far different than my place of origin... Brooklyn, NY.
Sracer is on the money, the SP family has traditionally had power issues on release for some reason. My SP3 had issues initially, but were ironed out and it ran beautifully for the vast majority of the time I owned it. My SP4 also had issues, I had the hot bag issue once or twice, the battery drain issue a couple of times, and overall poor battery life while on sleep, but before hibernate. The first 2 issues have been entirely fixed in my own experience, and in speaking to others on surface forums, but of course I don't mean to be representative of the entire surface owning community. The poor battery on sleep has been drastically improved, but I still don't think the SP4 gets the battery life I would have expected. The issue seems to be turbo mode when the SP4 is awake, and limiting the CPU to 99% gives an extra hour of battery making it go from 6 or so hours to 7+. The sleep issues when resolved hopefully will add another hour of battery life IMO, bringing us towards 8-9 which is closer to what's advertised.
With that said I'm still utterly amazed at the level of functionality I get. I still don't think it's necessarily a valid comparison, the SP4 and the IPP are different on many levels and it depends what's important to you. The IPP seems to have the better pen and better battery life, where the SP4 has a full OS and much nicer keyboard. They both have nice things to offer.
I do think both Apple and Microsoft are working to bring computing into the future, but prioritizing different things. Both platforms are in transition mode, and each makes different compromises until technology works out all the wrinkles. So Microsoft builds a mobile device that can run AutoCad, but it sometimes overheats. iPads never overheat but can't run FinalCut. Now, since I don't need AutoCad or FinalCut, it doesn't make sense to put up with a machine that could overheat. So like you say, it depends on what our priorities are, and it's great that we have two companies working on this from different angles.
The power management issues regarding connected standby (or not) resulted in "hot bag" situations where the Surface didn't go to sleep nor connected standby but remained on, draining the battery... resulting in a "hot" computer bag. It would also occur while devices were left unplugged on a desk only to have the owner discover the next morning that their Surface had drained upwards of 80% overnight. It's happened with every generation of Surface but seems a bit worse with the SP4.
I never said nor implied that Apple was any better. I usually wait 3 months before buying an iPad simply to maximize the probability of receiving a unit without or minimal light bleed. (I guess that implies that Apple is better since I don't have to wait 6 months like I do for the Surface)
Prescott is a nice town, far, far different than my place of origin... Brooklyn, NY.
My wife is from Brooklyn and it's my "second" home and I have family in Surprise. I get out there about 3 times a year.
This is actually the first I heard (meaning I heard about it on this forum) about the power management issues. We haven't been bitten by it, but Microsoft has released a bunch of updates so maybe we have been lucky and it's already been resolved.
Actually the SP4 never overheats! But yeah, it's extremely interesting how they approach the market and solving the problem of mobile computing. Apple has put out a very simplistic OS with impeccable hardware and it continues to slowly add complexity and functionality to that package, but interestingly not to the point where it will cannibalize sales of their laptops. It's interesting to note the interposition of altruistic problem solving versus making money, but of course these are all for profit companies. Versus MS who prefers to take their complex and highly functional OS and simplify it so it can be used on a mobile platform. Of course still remaining cognizant of MS own financial motivations, including needing as many hardware vehicles as possible to carry it's software and cloud subscriptions.
I highly prefer MS approach, IMO you lose nothing where with iOS you lose almost everything functionally. Once again dependent if you actually need "everything", or if you only need to consume content and maybe functionally be strong in a very few areas. I still think they are different markets though. Even with the keyboard I don't think Apple is putting the IPP out as a laptop replacement, but rather as a large tablet meant for creative work. Where the SP4 is clearly out there as a laptop replacement that doubles as a pretty darn good tablet. Considering that dichotomy it's easy to see how useless some of our discussions are because in the end they revolve around the user and not the device.
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They sound MUCH worse than they really were, I think people just expected perfection when they spend 1-3k on a computer.
My brother used to live in Surprise, nice little town.
yeah. because that wasn't blown out of proportion. Give me a break. You're trying to compare this (which most users didn't even bother to get a bumper for) to the 20 issues which had users returning their microsoft devices.
From what we saw, press blew it out of proportion and the antennagate issue actually effected most phones on the market when they tested it, but you probably didn't bother to get that far from your apple hate you seem to spew.
A couple of companies did independent tests (including newspapers) and found the issue effected blackberry, nokia and HTC amongst others.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. For me, the iPad Pro has dissuaded me from buying another MacBook, so that's at least one lost laptop sale for Appple due to the iPP. I'm still keeping my iMac, though!
Discussion is not useless if it leads us to understand why other people make different choices than we do. And I do wonder if one type of user would turn out to be more numerous than the other, or if it's closer to fifty-fifty. No way to tell on the Internet, of course, but... I guess time will tell.
At work today, the department laptop had gone walkies so I was stuck in a meeting with my boss' iPad. It was probably one of the worst tools I've ever used to write notes on.
When it autocorrects a word i didn't want, then press back, it just deletes the last letter of the word I never wanted?!?! Absolutely infuriating.
When it autocorrects a word i didn't want, then press back, it just deletes the last letter of the word I never wanted?!?! Absolutely infuriating.
Well you are still keeping your MacBook so that means you still need a laptop and will someday upgrade, hopefully for Apple to a brand new MacBook. It's a genius business strategy really, and the part I find most genius is that Apple consumers believe Apple is really doing them a favor instead of holding back.
The word useless wasn't the best choice, of course we are having fun!!!
So you don't think that other companies have launch day release issues? Ever read the iphone forums on this website after a release where people claim to return iphone after iphone due to this or that issue.
I don't know what 20 issues exist for the sp4, but you make it seem that every consumer of that product has experienced all 20 issues, which I find hard to believe across the millions of devices sold. I bought my sp4 Thanksgiving weekend and other than the screen display issue for which I returned it, there have not been any issues.
As far as the bolded, it's a bit hyperbolic but I like the use of the word spew...it's kind of apt. Too bad you can't envision someone having reception problems due to an ill-designed antenna is on the same level as some other issues talked about with respect to the sp4.
Well, no, I don't need a laptop, I need a desktop at work. My current MacBook is acting as my office desktop, and if and when that laptop stops working, I'll probably just grab one of the Dell desktops lying around at the office. Best case scenario for Apple, I'll get a Mac mini. Best case scenario for me, by the time my laptop dies, iOS is powerful enough to allow me to do all my work-related tasks on my iPad. Actually, I *can* do all my work related tasks on my iPad, what's forcing me to keep the MacBook is that my office hasn't updated to recent versions of Office. I need to deliver my documents in Word 2000-2003 format, while iPad Office only handles docx. So then, another possible scenario is my office finally decides to get with the times and update their software, and I'll be able to retire my MacBook.
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"By the time my laptop dies, iOS is powerful enough to allow me to do all my work-related tasks on my iPad." That's what strikes me as interesting and maybe will help put into perspective how I feel about the Sp4. I don't have a laptop at all, and I don't have a desktop at work either, those functions have been taken over by a single device. Are you sure you can do all of your work on the ipad? It sounds like you use Office a lot, are you truly comfortable with long documents and such without mouse support and with the limited options iOS office has? Maybe you can, but there is no way I could. I spend a lot of time writing reports and collaborating office files and need the full desktop Office solution, not to mention things like Azure rights management, sharepoint, hipaa compliance, EHR, a ton of proprietary software, etc.
So yeah, I've been able to retire every single computing device I own except for my smartphone. While many ipad owners say they can do this, I highly doubt many of them are truly being honest. I'm not saying that's you. It's just apparent that this "Post PC" world some ipad owners profess is hugely overblown. Indeed a post PC world would be very bad for Apple.
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Not getting phone reception? yeah kind of a deal breaker there. Don't try and sugarcoat it, it was a huge issue and VERY easily replicated. Apple changed the design of that iPhone during it's lifecycle. Yep there was no software fix, so users like myself were stuck with the phone. To belittle the antenna issues takes away any credibility. Using a bumper cover is a piss poor solution and certainly not comparable to Microsoft issuing a software fix soon after launch.
Oh and I didn't see you list the "20 issues" the SP4 has. What's the deal anyhow? Why fight so hard to prove the SP4 is "crappy"? You don't like it, we get it.
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Hey, the best word processor I ever used was WordPerfect for DOS. I wrote a 90 page research paper using that, no mouse. I don't need a mouse to do word processing.
I don't even know what any of these things are! Obviously, my computer requirements are quite light, therefore, I'm able to do all my work on iOS. Same with all the other people who are using the iPad as their main/only computer. Is that so hard to believe?
Why would it be "very bad"? Apple makes the majority of its profits from iPhone sales. It will do ok even if people stopped buying Macs.
It was a problem, sure, but easily fixed with a bumper case, which Applw ended up providing for free. Also, I personally was never able to get the signal to drop while holding the phone normally. It depended on your hand size,shape, and grip. So some people had problems, others didn't. Kind of like how some people had problems with iPP not waking up after charging, others didn't, some people had driver problems with Surface, others didn't...
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There's also devices like the Intel stick. That would be very ideal for me. I leave one set of monitor/keyboard/mouse at home and another set at home and commute with my computer in my pocket. I suppose you can sort of do that now with a Surface dock, but a pocketable stick is much more convenient. Once that technology matures, then maybe large tablets like iPad Pro and Surface Pro might become less attractive.
The thing about technology is, it can change on the blink of an eye. Right now iOS and iPP is the most attractive solution for me. But tomorrow something else can come along that works even better.
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And the thread does another 360 degrees and it all begins again
. Queue the next 450 posts ....
depends what you plan on doing with it..
i will judge for myself today when i open mine.
What is a "pro" device anyway? For me pro simply means more features than the non pro model. surface 3 to surface pro 3. ipad to ipad pro.