Surface Studio discussion

[Lankyman]

Astropad. It's what my best friend uses to work on photoshop on his iPad Pro.

This problem has already been solved. And solved well. But Apple should have solved it.

But at the end of the day iOS is a mobile platform not a desktop experience like you can have with the Surface Pro and therefore a 'fail'.

 

[maflynn]

But at the end of the day iOS is a mobile platform not a desktop experience like you can have with the Surface Pro and therefore a 'fail'.

I'm not a designer or someone who can draw, so Astropad is not something that I would even be considering, but my opinion is that its not a fail in that you're using one tool (astropad) to extend and enhance your desktop experience. Much like the Wacom Cintiq. I think from my uneducated eyes, that the Surface Studio is superior, because you don't need a secondary device to draw on, you get to do it directly on the computer, but the iPad with AstroPad is a good way of enhancing a non touch computer, like the iMac.

 

[phrehdd]

So is it more powerful than the castrated Minis that Apple sells us today - YES
Is it competitive with features of the iMac and have more features - YES
Adding TB3 and an SSD to a future model will not drive the cost up much (100-400 dollars most likely) - YES

All and all, this is closer to a product Apple could have put out. It serves the graphics community, touch also
serves typical users in other ways, easily could have been optimized for gaming and so much more.

Between the Studio Pro of Microsoft and the Z Workstations of HP, Apple looks like a pile of yesterday's news.

I remember long ago when some folks were fitting a computer into a keyboard. Perhaps this will be the next Mac Mini
as Apple has ran out of any real ability to innovate and yes "THIN" is a four letter word none of us really need to hear.

 

[Jack Burton]

But at the end of the day iOS is a mobile platform not a desktop experience like you can have with the Surface Pro and therefore a 'fail'.

The "fail" is your understanding of what Astropad does for the desktop experience of Photoshop and illustrator. It is literally the desktop experience on the iPad with custom touch interfaces for access to your favorite tools on the iPad screen.

Sweet Jesus, there has never been a better time to be a 2d digital artist. You have an overwhelming amount of choice for once. Surface book. Surface Studio. iPad Pro. Astropad. Wacom Mobile Studio Pro. Cintiq Pro.

All of these will get your work done, and get them done in desktop apps.

 

[Mac4Fun]

Astropad. It's what my best friend uses to work on photoshop on his iPad Pro.

This problem has already been solved. And solved well. But Apple should have solved it.

You and your friend are far too easy to please. AstroPad and iPad Pro make a poor team. A device with the wrong processor and wrong operating system, supported by an app that lets it fake running the software that everyone wishes they could run on it. A practical admission by its users that the iPad Pro needs to be Intel/MacOS, not ARM/iOS.

For me, The Search for the right artist tablet continues. One that has a great pen experience, a great screen, and runs all the professional software. And Apple has dropped out of the picture!

To be fair, I bought an early version of AstroPad, and perhaps it's better now. I was turned off by the pixilation when zooming and looking at menus, laggy behavior overall.

I may still be searching after the Surface Studio, but it seems to be getting close now. We will see.

 

[Jack Burton]

You and your friend are far too easy to please.

Nah, you're looking at it the wrong way. This is the time to be excited. Try taking a positive outlook on this. Astropad doesn't work for you? Then there are a bunch of other tools that should meet your needs. Rejoice, man. The choices you have are immense.

Expensive, but immense.

As for my friend being too easy to please, he has a couple criteria - (1) can he position it to be comfortable no matter where he is drawing and (2) can he get paid for the work he produces on it. iPad Pro meets both for him.

For me, it's entirely a "free time" device. I don't make money drawing. So the fact that it's also an iPad with all the great entertainment apps is a plus.

BTW, I found AstroPad pretty worthless.

This seems like hyperbole. I'm sure you could get work done on it if push came to shove.

Particularly with Adobe Illustrator.

This seems like the most likely source of your feeling of Astropad being worthless. What specifically gave you issues? Was it point selection and bezier manipulation for fine tuning of paths?

I may still be searching after the Surface Studio, but it seems to be getting close now. We will see.

Seriously look at the new Wacom Mobile Studio Pro. They aren't cheap, but everything I'm seeing is looking great. The parallax is way down. The displays support wide color gamut, and are very hi-res (13 inch is 2560x1440, 16 inch is 4k). The pen is significantly more sensitive and battery free.

It is supposedly lag free, or closer to it than both the iPad pro (minimal lag) and the surface (slowest of the three big players)

Early impressions say it doesn't have the wobble associated with surface tablets when drawing slowly, and it doesn't have the odd taper errors like the surface when drawing strokes quickly. If you need it, you can get it with a quadro, thus making it supported by everything from Photoshop to zBrush to Autodesk Maya and Max.

And if that isn't the kicker, it has "wacom link" to attach it to a more powerful computer. It can act as a tablet only and use the desktop to drive everything, and it can be a completely self contained portable computer running full windows 10.

If that doesn't meet your needs, I don't know what will!

 

[smoledman]

Good luck selling more than a few 100s of these things.

 

[markusberger]

Good luck selling more than a few 100s of these things.

It's not like Microsoft really needs cash. But - as opposed to Apple lately - they actually made something desirable. In an oversaturated PC market that is quite the accomplishment.

 

[MrX8503]

What I like about the Studio is that the screen is more square. Square monitors are better for productivity.

 

[tubeexperience]

Nah, you're looking at it the wrong way. This is the time to be excited. Try taking a positive outlook on this. Astropad doesn't work for you? Then there are a bunch of other tools that should meet your needs. Rejoice, man. The choices you have are immense.

That basically ruins the point of having a portable solution.

The Surface Pro is an integrated solution that can be easily taken anywhere.

Not only that, it's cheaper too (by a lot).

By contrast, the Surface Studio is a stationary solution that stays on the desk.

 

[Jack Burton]

That basically ruins the point of having a portable solution.

I have no idea what you're disagreeing with.

The Surface Pro is an integrated solution that can be easily taken anywhere.

Yes? So is the wacom mobile studio. Don't confuse it with the cintiq pro, which is a screen tablet only. The mobile studio can be a self contained system that runs windows AND it can act as a cintiq if you have a beast desktop to power it when you're sitting in your office.

Not only that, it's cheaper too (by a lot).

True, you can save money by getting a lower cost surface model, compared to the wacom portable solution. But the digitizer is lower quality. By a lot (more parallax, more lag, more error prone). And the pen is battery powered. Such is the nature of n-trig digitizers at this point in time.

By contrast, the Surface Studio is a stationary solution that stays on the desk.

I think we can all agree the surface studio sits on a desk.

 

[Lankyman]

The "fail" is your understanding of what Astropad does for the desktop experience of Photoshop and illustrator. It is literally the desktop experience on the iPad with custom touch interfaces for access to your favorite tools on the iPad screen.

Sweet Jesus, there has never been a better time to be a 2d digital artist. You have an overwhelming amount of choice for once. Surface book. Surface Studio. iPad Pro. Astropad. Wacom Mobile Studio Pro. Cintiq Pro.

All of these will get your work done, and get them done in desktop apps.

Have you ever heard the saying "you'll never make a silk purse out of a sows ear"? The sow in this instance being the iPad and iOS. Apple are trying to lead their customers down a dead end. They need to invest in their desktop computers and stop trying to get users to buy iToys.

 

[Jack Burton]

Have you ever heard the saying "you'll never make a silk purse out of a sows ear"? The sow in this instance being the iPad and iOS. Apple are trying to lead their customers down a dead end. They need to invest in their desktop computers and stop trying to get users to buy iToys.

I feel ya. I wish apple would reinvigorate the desktop line.

I really, really want a Mac pro tower with multiple Nvidia cards. I complain loudly about it in the Mac pro forums.

If I was sticking with a Mac, I'd consider an iPad and Astro pad as a companion for drawing. But unless apple completely surprises me soon, I'll be going PC again for my home art machine. I may have to skip the iPad pro despite how much i like it personally.

 

[varian55zx]

I really, really want a Mac pro tower with multiple Nvidia cards. I complain loudly about it in the Mac pro forums.

I want this too, along with a high end nvidia card in the iMac. But it will probably never happen

Apple is too interested in disgracing themselves, and ruining their product name

 

[bopajuice]

I use the Windows key sometimes, namely for the windows key + 1, 2, 3 etc shortcut which lets you switch between icons in the Windows dock, or whatever they named it. granted that is a convenient shortcut that is useful for work but at home I'm not missing it.

What you aren't mentioning is that control is used in many more shortcuts, and it is out of the way. You are forced to arch your hand in an uncomfortable position compared to the use of command.


I know many do, but I don't. As I have said before I have been using Mac for the majority of my time with computers and traditionally we used to have the + icon which merely fit the window to the screen. I find simply making everything full screen as somewhat crude and prefer fitting windows to the screen, allowing for more efficient use of the screen. I wish the + sign was still possible without having to hold another button to get it.


I have found the search in Windows 7 to be ineffective, and unusable. It never finds what I want or nearly anything for that matter. Maybe this has been improved in 10.

I prefer spotlight and a simple key shortcut of cmd + space will let you access anything instantly if you have a fast SSD, and I have found that it actually pulls up what I'm looking for much better than Windows 7 which I use on a work computer.


I can enter my password in a tiny fraction of a second and never thought to wish for alternative options for unlocking a computer.

I used to use an old HP laptop that had a fingerprint reading feature and it didn't work.


Mind you it also has a scientific view. Not sure if Windows caught onto that or not.

It looks better which I think we can all agree on (contrary to what many will say, looks do matter). And I prefer the animation in OS X when clicking one of the buttons. I use it fairly frequently.

I may be nitpicking with the calculator but I will hold true to it.

Mac has hot corners, textedit instead of objectively inferior notepad, Preview which is superior to windows picture viewer (preview allows you to edit), a vastly superior screen shot feature. The list of advantages is truly bottomless.

Maybe Windows 10 caught on and copied a number of these, I don't have as much experience with it as I do with 7, however I have used it on multiple occasions, and was not blown away like most of the members here are.

It sounds like your argument has more to due with how you have to move your hands on a keyboard, and some of your references are related to Windows 7. I'd give Windows 10 a fresh look. After I customized it to my tastes it works pretty well. Driver support alone for external devices is far superior to MacOS. Give it a try and then comment.

 

[bopajuice]

These studios are very much a niche product they are super expensive for a majority of people. They make Apple look cheap.

"very much a niche product they are super expensive for a majority of people"

That's exactly what I heard about the Mac Pro.

 

[varian55zx]

It sounds like your argument has more to due with how you have to move your hands on a keyboard, and some of your references are related to Windows 7. I'd give Windows 10 a fresh look. After I customized it to my tastes it works pretty well. Driver support alone for external devices is far superior to MacOS. Give it a try and then comment.

That's interesting you say that because I think my argument is very good

I'll let you know I have tried it and I wasn't blown away. Windows 7 in black? Whoopee....

For you Windows fanboys out there I really don't understand why you come to this forum to hate on Mac, while you let everyone know of your love for Windows 10.

 

[xmonkey]

Great concept and execution (made me immediately think this is something Apple should have designed), but ya the specs are very underwhelming. Like most Surface products it's best to wait out the first generation.

 

[bopajuice]

That's interesting you say that because I think my argument is very good

I'll let you know I have tried it and I wasn't blown away. Windows 7 in black? Whoopee....

For you Windows fanboys out there I really don't understand why you come to this forum to hate on Mac, while you let everyone know of your love for Windows 10.

I have several Macs, iPhones and iPads, and use MacOS for my personal and family needs. I live in an Apple ecosystem. That is the reason I spend time here on this forum. But I do use Windows 10 for work related tasks and have found it to be pretty stable and customizable to the point where I am enjoying it.

I am not here as an advocate or to convince MacRumors members to use Windows 10. I merely wanted to point out that it is sometimes beneficial to look beyond your own backyard. To speak so matter of fact and absolutely about something seems a bit closed minded.

 

[varian55zx]

I have several Macs, iPhones and iPads, and use MacOS for my personal and family needs. I live in an Apple ecosystem. That is the reason I spend time here on this forum. But I do use Windows 10 for work related tasks and have found it to be pretty stable and customizable to the point where I am enjoying it.

I am not here as an advocate or convince MacRumors members to uses Windows 10. I merely wanted to point out that it is sometimes beneficial to look beyond your own backyard. To speak so matter of fact and absolutely about something seems a bit closed minded.

I tried it and I wasn't blown away. If you're a Mac user that's fine, but if you prefer Windows 10 you're free to switch. Honestly if macOS wasn't that much better (in my opinion it is), I wouldn't have any incentive to stay with Mac. Superior design is not worth the drop off in performance.

And I'm not closed minded.

 

[bopajuice]

At this point it's not about switching. I feel MacOS and Windows 10 can work together to the point where the lines are almost blurred. I can sync my calendars and contacts in Windows just like in MacOS. In other words I can use both at the same time.

I have replaced my Apple TV with a Roku, and my Time Capsule router with a Netgear. The router and Roku are superior products, but I can still live in the ecosystem for the most part. I can't have iTunes on the Roku, but lately I have been using Amazon Prime music and video more anyways. It more like an evolutionary process to me instigated by Apples slowed level of new products and innovation.

 

[leman]

"very much a niche product they are super expensive for a majority of people"

That's exactly what I heard about the Mac Pro.

And yet the Mac Pro is infinitely more versatile. We use one as our file server, connected to multiple TB RAID arrays with the total of around 100TB capacity. And we also have a bunch of them as desktop machines for people who need computational power. The only thing that the Studio is good for is illustrator's work.

 

[varian55zx]

If there's one thing in existence I'll never buy, it's the Surface Studio. That I will tell you

People say Mac is overpriced this monstrosity is soo overpriced it's unbelievable!

It's truly an expensive device and I hate how it's all just a blatant copy of Apple down to the website. Maybe a touch screen will be useful to some but I will tell you I'd prefer not to have one as opposed to having one. Not useful.

I will be sticking with Apple and pray they clean up their act

 

[xmonkey]

If there's one thing in existence I'll never buy, it's the Surface Studio. That I will tell you

People say Mac is overpriced this monstrosity is soo overpriced it's unbelievable!

It's truly an expensive device and I hate how it's all just a blatant copy of Apple down to the website. Maybe a touch screen will be useful to some but I will tell you I'd prefer not to have one as opposed to having one. Not useful.

I will be sticking with Apple and pray they clean up their act

Well, if you compare it with the comparable Cintiq model it's actually fairly well priced. It just serves a very specific niche.

It's a halo product for MS, essentially.

 

[varian55zx]

Well, if you compare it with the comparable Cintiq model it's actually fairly well priced. It just serves a very specific niche.

It's a halo product for MS, essentially.

If somebody buys it and they are happy with it, I am happy for them.

But no I won't be buying it. Maybe Apple needs someone to start encroaching on their market share more in order to clean up their act? In that way it may serve as a positive? Who knows.

But no I don't like the thing.