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cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
Surface studio shouldn't be compared to the iMac. Seriously, if you are replacing your iMac with a surface studio you either got a new job or you shouldn't have had an iMac in the first place.

People see it as an all in one, a replacement for the iMac but if you don't specifically need that digitizer then that thing is a colossal waste of money. That's right....now everyone is a professional illustrator.
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What I like about the Studio is that the screen is more square. Square monitors are better for productivity.

Define productivity?

Because if you are producing video then wider is better....nearly a requirement. And if you are producing 4K videos a higher than 4K resolution is nice. If only someone made a wide higher than 4K screen for video production. :D
 

Taz Mangus

macrumors 604
Mar 10, 2011
7,815
3,504
Why not, the specs and performance are similar, the Studio is touch screen, but other then that, there's incredible overlap with what the iMac can do and the Studio.

I think cynics point is very valid, if you don't need the digitizer then why spend the extra money on the Surface Studio. Besides the iMac can run both Mac OS and Windows which makes it more versatile, with a higher resolution screen and at a lower cost than the Surface Studio. Of course anyone who is not interested in running Mac OS will not be looking at the iMac.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
Why not, the specs and performance are similar, the Studio is touch screen, but other then that, there's incredible overlap with what the iMac can do and the Studio.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN compare whatever you want. I just don't feel it's not a fair comparison. And a lot of people don't need that digitizer.

I've watched a ton of reviews on it, many directly comparing the two and generally somewhere in the review the reviewer will say "I can't draw but someone who could......". That should be evidence enough the reviewer has no use for the surface studio and be better served with a different product.

Keep in mind I always felt the same way about a 5k iMac since it seems geared toward 4K video editing, something else a lot of people won't or can't do. However unlike the surface studio there isn't a whole lot of options for people shopping for OSX devices. I also feel Apple did a good job with the price of a 5k AIO.
 
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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
If there's one thing in existence I'll never buy, it's the Surface Studio. That I will tell you

People say Mac is overpriced this monstrosity is soo overpriced it's unbelievable!

It's truly an expensive device and I hate how it's all just a blatant copy of Apple down to the website. Maybe a touch screen will be useful to some but I will tell you I'd prefer not to have one as opposed to having one. Not useful.

I will be sticking with Apple and pray they clean up their act

This is how you can tell that someone has been stuck in the reality distortion field too long: he/she thinks that everything is copied from Apple.

This device is pretty uniquely original and definitely isn't copied from Apple.

Maybe some of the design was copied from Wacom Cintiq, but that isn't an Apple product.

Also, you said that it's overpriced, but overpriced compare to what?

What are some similar devices that cost less?
 
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varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
This is how you can tell that someone has been stuck in the reality distortion field too long: he/she thinks that everything is copied from Apple.

This device is pretty uniquely original and definitely isn't copied from Apple.

Maybe some of the design was copied from Wacom Cintiq, but that isn't an Apple product.

Also, you said that it's overpriced, but overpriced compare to what?

What are some similar devices that cost less?
I'm not stuck in the "reality distortion field" as you phrase it you hack

You don't understand my comment and you have proven that with your post. There's no explaining to you you've proven that already.
 
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ton1772

macrumors newbie
Oct 26, 2016
7
1
If there's one thing in existence I'll never buy, it's the Surface Studio. That I will tell you

People say Mac is overpriced this monstrosity is soo overpriced it's unbelievable!

It's truly an expensive device and I hate how it's all just a blatant copy of Apple down to the website. Maybe a touch screen will be useful to some but I will tell you I'd prefer not to have one as opposed to having one. Not useful.

I will be sticking with Apple and pray they clean up their act


What is your definition of overprice? Is it the same meaning as $1200+ Apple laptop vs $500+ laptop from other manufacturers?

I don't think the studio is overpriced coz 27inch wacom digitizer already $2500+

and what is the blatant copy of Apple exactly?
I really want to know.
I do agree with tubeex.
 

varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
What is your definition of overprice? Is it the same meaning as $1200+ Apple laptop vs $500+ laptop from other manufacturers?

I don't think the studio is overpriced coz 27inch wacom digitizer already $2500+

and what is the blatant copy of Apple exactly?
I really want to know.
I do agree with tubeex.
I just say it's overpriced because I happened to look at the price.

It's waayy too expensive!

And that goes back to if someone buys it and is happy with the purchase, then I am happy for them. No question about that

But I am just saying that in my opinion it is overpriced the best part is the GPU but the only reason Apple gets away with its inflated prices is it offers a legitimately superior user experience with macOS. As a for profit business them charging more for macOS makes sense. What doesn't make sense is using substandard components to their machines.

If you agree with tubex I can tell you we agree on nothing.

I'm not going to explain to you why they copied Apple it's obvious if you've been using Apple since thee 90s like me they started that whole website layout that you see with the surface, with the captions, the minimalist aluminum/metal design, keyboard mouse design is all ripped off. The logo is on the back just like iMac. HOW are you people unable to understand it's just so mind boggling. Don't try to

Microsoft even copies Mac with a dock ripoff. No I don't care if you agree with my post has no meaning to me. lol
 
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bopajuice

Suspended
Mar 22, 2016
1,571
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Dark side of the moon
I just say it's overpriced because I happens to look at the price.

It's waayy too expensive!

And that goes back to if someone buys it and is happy with the purchase, then I am happy for them. No question about that

But I am just saying that in my opinion it is overpriced the best part is the GPU but the only reason Apple gets away with its inflated prices is it offers a legitimately superior user experience with macOS. As a for profit business them charging more for macOS makes sense. What doesn't make sense is using substandard components to their machines.

If you agree with tubex I can tell you we agree on nothing.

I'm not going to explain to you why they copied Apple it's obvious if you've been using Apple since thee 90s like me they started that whole website layout that you see with the surface, with the captions, the minimalist aluminum/metal design, keyboard mouse design is all ripped off. The logo is on the back just like iMac. HOW are you people unable to understand it's just so mind boggling. Don't try to

Microsoft even copies Mac with a dock ripoff. No I don't care if you agree with my post has no meaning to me. lol

Wow... You preface many of your comments with a personal attack of the forum member you are responding to, reaffirm your dedication and confirm that Apple is the only way "for you", and then finish with a comment about how you don't care what the other person thinks. Why bother commenting at all? If you don't care whats the point?

At this point we all know you will never buy a Microsoft product. Some others have found life exists outside of Apple and wish to discuss it with Apple enthusiasts. I know... you don't care. Good for them.
 
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varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
Wow... You preface many of your comments with a personal attack of the forum member you are responding to, reaffirm your dedication and confirm that Apple is the only way "for you", and then finish with a comment about how you don't care what the other person thinks. Why bother commenting at all? If you don't care whats the point?

At this point we all know you will never buy a Microsoft product. Some others have found life exists outside of Apple and wish to discuss it with Apple enthusiasts. I know... you don't care. Good for them.
No no, I do care very much.

I have great respect for Microsoft, I think they are a company who has found a lot of success. They do what they do well

It all goes back to, if the buyer is satisfied with their purchase, then I am happy for them.

You are right that I prefer Apple, but I hold them accountable.
 
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tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
I just say it's overpriced because I happens to look at the price.

It's waayy too expensive!

Overpriced compare to what? Would you point me to something that costs less, yet has similar feature sets?

But I am just saying that in my opinion it is overpriced the best part is the GPU but the only reason Apple gets away with its inflated prices is it offers a legitimately superior user experience with macOS. As a for profit business them charging more for macOS makes sense. What doesn't make sense is using substandard components to their machines.
First, I do like macOS otherwise I probably won't be using it, but it's important to acknowledge that Windows is a more compelling alternative than it has been in years.

Second, I want to point out that people buy Macs because of great hardware. For example, Apple made the first ultrabook and the first laptop with high resolution display. The MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro Retina were revolutionary when they were first released. Lately, Apple has just been releasing mediocre products, and no, paying for just the sake of having macOS isn't cutting it anymore.

I'm not going to explain to you why they copied Apple it's obvious if you've been using Apple since thee 90s like me they started that whole website layout that you see with the surface, with the captions, the minimalist aluminum/metal design, keyboard mouse design is all ripped off. The logo is on the back just like iMac. HOW are you people unable to understand it's just so mind boggling. Don't try to

I am not going to comment on the website because that has nothing to do with the product.

Surface Studio is make of aluminum, I will give you that, but other than that, there aren't many similarities. If it had a copper finish, we probably won't even be having this discussion.

As for the keyboard and mouse: that's nothing specific to the Surface Studio. Microsoft has been selling the keyboard and mouse for years now.

1166674c-6fb4-4df7-a72a-164f6faf4abf.jpg._CB284276330__SR970,300_.jpg


The keyboard has chiclet keys, but that's not an Apple original either.

The logo on the back is the same logo Microsoft has been using since 2012. Before then the logo was just "Microsoft" written out.

Microsoft even copies Mac with a dock ripoff. No I don't care if you agree with my post has no meaning to me. lol

The taskbar is not a dock ripoff.

When Microsoft was optimizing Windows for touch, it found that the taskbar made too small a touch target and had to make the taskbar bigger.
 
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varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
Just compare these two websites everyone who is informed will know it is standard for the PC makers and companies to copy Apple on the design/style front. Just look at these two websites and somehow they get away with it. I'm the only one that can perceive the obvious similarities between the two I guess? wow. No words for this.

Look at these two sites one is the original and one is the copy

http://www.apple.com/imac/
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-studio/overview

Have you ever been to a Microsoft store it's a blatant rip off of the Apple store. But no no Microsoft never copies Apple EVER in your world. Ok I get it now. nope never according to you.

You guys are just incredible.

29zwu1g.jpg


2zszfie.png


Just look at these keyboards how is Microsoft's not a cheap (presumably plastic) knock off?? How. Amazing.

PC keyboards used to look like this until Microsoft and whoever else got smart and caught on

qrddfp.jpg
 
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ton1772

macrumors newbie
Oct 26, 2016
7
1
Just compare these two websites everyone who is informed will know it is standard for the PC makers and companies to copy Apple on the design/style front. Just look at these two websites and somehow they get away with it. I'm the only one that can perceive the obvious similarities between the two I guess? wow. No words for this.

Look at these two sites one is the original and one is the copy

http://www.apple.com/imac/
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-studio/overview

Have you ever been to a Microsoft store it's a blatant rip off of the Apple store. But no no Microsoft never copies Apple EVER in your world. Ok I get it now. nope never according to you.

You guys are just incredible.

Noone said Microsoft never copies Apple. Correct me if I'm wrong, I think Microsoft do copies some of Apple ideas and vice versa.

By using your logic, the first one is the original the rest are copier, that would mean ipad pro copies surface pro.

Perhaps the word "inspired by" is more appropriate. It's not a bad thing coz competition benefits us the user.

What Im trying to say is Apple didn't originate everything however you seem to think that way.

No Im not a M$ fanboy. Im still using 2011 MBA but Im willing to try new things.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
But no no Microsoft never copies Apple EVER in your world. Ok I get it now. nope never according to you.
Apple copies all the time as well, I'm not saying the Surface Studio is a blatant rip off, and there is only a handful of ways to design keyboards.

With that said, Apple does its own share of copying, the 12" iPad pro and its stylus is because they saw who popular the Surface Pro series is.
 

varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
Apple copies all the time as well, I'm not saying the Surface Studio is a blatant rip off, and there is only a handful of ways to design keyboards.

With that said, Apple does its own share of copying, the 12" iPad pro and its stylus is because they saw who popular the Surface Pro series is.
Sure. But this has been going on for a long time, and inevitably, the blatant copying becomes so commonplace that the consumers can no longer discern who came up with it first.

This always happens but I believe I have highlighted a few specific instances in this thread... and this thread itself is even testament to that. "No Microsoft didn't copy Apple!" well no you're wrong. They did, and I will show you where they did.

Apple are not "saints" and like I've said I'll be holding them accountable just like I do with all companies, but I do not question that they are the victims of a great deal of "copying".

There are many aspects of Apple that I dislike, and more than anything I would want them to stop making disgraceful moves. That said, our interests are different. I am looking at this from the consumer pov and obviously that is not their pov. I also have next to no faith in the executives at Apple.

"Let's copy the design of Apple on our Windows machines, while never being able to do it as well", has become the name of the game for the PC manufacturers. Microsoft as well as the others. I would implore anyone to do some basic research to understand that this is true

2le3puh.jpg
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
has become the name of the game for the PC manufacturers.
Perhaps, but I will say that many companies have surpassed Apple at its own game. The Surface Studio is a prime example. Where we get a beautifully designed computer, that has more features then what the iMac has.

The HP Spectre is another example where I think Apple's competitor has out done Apple
Capto_Capture 2016-11-25_07-02-22_AM.png


Apple are not "saints" and like I've said I'll be holding them accountable
So we've established that Apple copies, as do other makers.
 

varian55zx

macrumors 6502a
May 10, 2012
748
260
San Francisco
So we've established that Apple copies, as do other makers.
Of course. As much as anyone would like to believe, I'm not ignorant. Of course there is copying done on both sides. I have been discussing the copying going on from one side more in this thread.

Perhaps, but I will say that many companies have surpassed Apple at its own game. The Surface Studio is a prime example. Where we get a beautifully designed computer, that has more features then what the iMac has.

The HP Spectre is another example where I think Apple's competitor has out done Apple
Well, as the competition continues to beat Apple "at their own game" or any other, that will be taken into consideration and ultimately if Apple just destroys themselves by putting out subpar products, we will be forced to make a decision.

I won't miss out on a superior product due to "brand loyalty". I don't care even an iota about "brand loyalty". Right now Apple is still the company to beat so we will see how it goes. Also I have preferred Mac for many years, so I would rather not have to switch.
 
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theluggage

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2011
7,980
8,393
Surface studio shouldn't be compared to the iMac.

Surface studio is an all-in-one PC with a 28" better-than-4k display primarily targeted at "creative professionals" (or wannabes). The iMac is an all-in-one Mac with a 27" 5k display partly targeted at "creative professionals" (or wannabes). There aren't a whole lot of other systems that fit that description. On what planet shouldn't you compare them?

Now, if you compare them, the conclusion may well be that the iMac gives significantly more bangs-per-buck unless you were also planning to buy a Cintiq digitiser to go with it, and that the Studio is let down by its lack of high speed i/o, but its still a sensible comparison. I'll wait and see (a) how much Apple jacks up the price of the iMac if/when it gets round to updating it vs. (b) what the Studio actually ends up selling for when its widely available.

Because if you are producing video then wider is better....

Actually, the Studio's 4500x3000 display sounds pretty much perfect for displaying a 3840x2160 "4k" video at 1:1 while leaving plenty of room for window furniture, timelines and control palettes on the same screen. I also have a mental picture of the Studio tilted down in "easel" mode showing a touch-sensitive editing console, with a 40" TV hung on the wall behind, at comfortable viewing distance, for video preview... sweet.

Unfortunately, what does probably limit the studio for pro video production purposes is the lack of Thunderbolt or even USB 3.1gen2 for fast external storage, but its probably fine for "prosumer" 4k stuff.

The Studio's design is a potential solution to the "gorilla arms" issue with touch-screen desktops - it opens up far more possibilities than just creating freehand masterpieces (I can't draw freehand for toffee but I can use vector drawing software, which could work well on the Surface).
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The keyboard has chiclet keys, but that's not an Apple original either.

I think the "modern" chiclet keyboard was popularised by Apple when they introduced it on the MacBook Pro ~2008.

Prior to that, "chiclet keyboard" was virtually a term of abuse, reminiscent of various nasty 80s keyboards such as the original commodore PET (you really don't wanna know) and, particularly, associated with the spectacular flop that was the IBM PC Jr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PCjr). The mantra, as always, is that Apple may not have wrought many original inventions from raw firmament, but they've been the ones to refine and popularise new ideas.

Then, of course, it was Apple - in partnership with Sony - who created the original Powerbook from which pretty much all modern laptop designs are descended (there were clamshell laptops before then, but the Powerbook introduced the modern layout with the keyboard pushed back to make space for a wrist-rest and central pointing device). Even in the dark years before the second coming of Jobs, when Apple totally fouled up their desktop line and OS, they kept turning out the nicest laptop hardware.

What is happening now is that Microsoft, with their Surface range, seem to be making an effort to take over Apple's position of trendsetter. Certainly their advertising is aggressively targeting - and trash talking - Macbooks, and since Apple's current idea of "innovation" seems to be "make the same basic design 10% smaller, prematurely force all-USB-C and jack up the price" they're probably smelling blood in the water.

Its going to be interesting to see whether Dell, Lenovo et. al. produce their own takes on the Surface Studio concept. The difference between Apple and Microsoft, though, is that Windows still wins, even if Dell copies them.
 
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bopajuice

Suspended
Mar 22, 2016
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Dark side of the moon
Perhaps, but I will say that many companies have surpassed Apple at its own game. The Surface Studio is a prime example. Where we get a beautifully designed computer, that has more features then what the iMac has.

The HP Spectre is another example where I think Apple's competitor has out done Apple
View attachment 674628



So we've established that Apple copies, as do other makers.

Funny thing is I believe that the HP Spectre in your picture is not a touch screen and has USB-C only. Just like the new MBP. (But was released before the MBP).

Beautiful machine. Very, very thin, innovative, but for me it was the amount of gold and the USB-C only that caused me to ultimately not consider it. Priced with a an 6th generation i7 it is still cheaper than the new MBP without touchbar.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
Surface studio is an all-in-one PC with a 28" better-than-4k display primarily targeted at "creative professionals" (or wannabes). The iMac is an all-in-one Mac with a 27" 5k display partly targeted at "creative professionals" (or wannabes). There aren't a whole lot of other systems that fit that description. On what planet shouldn't you compare them?

Because they have a different target audience?

You are using "creative professional" WAY to generically.

If I'm an illustrator for print based work would an iMac be a good fit? Probably not, at least not on a professional level.

If I was a 4K video editor would a surface studio with a none video specific aspect ratio be a good fit? Unlikely.

So if the target audience is different why would they be compared?

What you are suggesting is akin to me trying decide if I should buy a stethoscope or an oscilloscope because I'm a "technician".
 

tubeexperience

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2016
3,192
3,897
Have you ever been to a Microsoft store it's a blatant rip off of the Apple store. But no no Microsoft never copies Apple EVER in your world. Ok I get it now. nope never according to you.

You guys are just incredible.

Neither Apple nor Microsoft has done much inventing.

Apple has traditionally been seen as a trendsetter: taking existing ideas/products, make them better, and popularizing them.

What has happened lately is that Apple is increasingly seen as a trend-follower rather than a trendsetter.

Instead, Microsoft has increasingly been seen as fulfilling that role (trendsetter).

That has hit a nerve for some longtime Apple fanboys and fangirls hence the accusations of copying.
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,175
13,225
varian wrote:
'"PC keyboards used to look like this until Microsoft and whoever else got smart and caught on"

I still use a keyboard that "looks like that" and "feels like that" as a matter of personal choice.

I prefer old-style keyboards that favor function over styling.

I haven't used an Apple keyboard since the "ABD days". Were you around then?

Aside:
I haven't used Apple mice or pointing devices in decades, for the same reason.
 

Ezlivin

macrumors member
Aug 11, 2010
42
1
You realize that Jobs literally stole the whole idea, design and implementation of a graphical computer, using a mouse from Xerox right. Granted Xerox didn't know what they had, but Jobs toured their Palo Alto labs, saw the computer and a little while later Apple rolled out the Lisa and then the Macintosh

I'm not against Apple, and I agree Jobs was a visionary, yet Apple has it share of copying a competitor or in some cases from software developers

And if you read the history you will note that Xerox had no intention of bringing the GUI to the masses. The HP engineers were actually glad that someone took note of their work. Of course it was raw and unpolished, but Jobs was able to see the potential and worked to make it a reality.
 
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