The 2016-2017 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

So Big Sam defeats Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool this month, and yet I'd be happy to wager that they are going nowhere under Big Sam in the long term. He's currently 0-0- with Spurs at the end of a half, and the match could go either way.

What is it with him? Is he the archetypical a safe pair of hands, but out of his depth when it comes to winning silverware/playing in Europe? Are the top jobs closed to him only because he's English and not "Sam Allardicci"? Is he just a destroyer, like Mourinho? Given the budget, could he manage at the very top level? Or is his football is too agricultural, regardless of its effectiveness?

Interesting story today about HMRC raiding both Newcastle (a club celebrating promotion back to the Premiership as of this past week-end) and West Ham investigating matters to do with tax fraud.

No indication just how big a deal this is, but Newcastle's managing director had his home raided and was arrested, and then subsequently released.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I heard the news on the way home regarding West Ham and Newcastle. Very sketchy on details at this point though.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

And - elsewhere - Arsenal are struggling to stamp their authority (in the form of goals scored) against a stubborn Leicester, were the score remains 0-0.

(Out of nothing other than the self-indulgence of pure nostalgia, - and re-visiting a time when watching Arsenal did not involve some nervous twitching until the final whistle has been blown - I read a piece this evening about the legendary lot that went by the nickname "The Invincibles".)

And Tottenham are in a similar position against a sturdy Crystal Palace, well into the second half and still on 0-0.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

And Tottenham are in a similar position against a sturdy Crystal Palace, well into the second half and still on 0-0.

Sakho just picked up what looks like a bad knee injury, that might open Palace up a bit. Shame, I think Sakho was terribly hard done by by Wada with his drug test and was happy to see him back in action. He realyl should still be at Liverpool, but he stepped over the line with Klopp (albeit at a time of great stress for himself) and that was only ever going to end one way.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An own goal from Huth in the 86th minute; Arsenal are hewing this result out with a kind of dogged gracelessness.

Actually, it was something of a jammy goal; Leicester could count themselves somewhat unfortunate.
[doublepost=1493239547][/doublepost]And now Spurs - approaching the 80th minute - put one (smartly) past Crystal Palace.

But eking out such scores - and carving out such results - in initially unpromising games is one of the things that differentiates - or distinguishes - the successful teams from the others, the rest, by season's send.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So, the Manchester derby....these two clubs have spent ungodly amounts of money and they produce....THIS????

La Liga might be a much less competitive league from top to bottom, but the most recent El Clasico made the Manchester derby look like a League One relegation six-pointer by comparison. Yuck!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So, the Manchester derby....these two clubs have spent ungodly amounts of money and they produce....THIS????

La Liga might be a much less competitive league from top to bottom, but the most recent El Clasico made the Manchester derby look like a League One relegation six-pointer by comparison. Yuck!

And Mr Mourinho still whinging, whining and complaining as is his wont: A very nasty piece of work. Just because he is so profoundly and professionally unpleasant, - a professional spoiler and wrecker - I would love to see Manchester United fail to qualify fro the Champion's League next season.

Actually, I like Pep Guardiola - and I think it has come as some considerable surprise to him to realise that achieving success - or, even a guaranteed stop four finish - in the Premiership is considerably more challenging than was the case in achieving the equivalent on the Continent. He has some thinking to do over the coming months.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

So, Sunderland - after a truly, lamentably, and quite impressively awful season - are relegated as of today, entirely deservedly. Mathematically, it is now impossible for them to recover but this outcome has been inevitable for months.

Elsewhere, Hull obtain a valuable point against Southampton, putting pressure on Swansea.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A second 0-0 draw in a row. Not expecting to get more than 5 minutes on MOTD.

As for Sunderland, the writing's been on the wall for months. They have been a yoyo club for years. I see nothing to expect that to change.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A second 0-0 draw in a row. Not expecting to get more than 5 minutes on MOTD.

As for Sunderland, the writing's been on the wall for months. They have been a yoyo club for years. I see nothing to expect that to change.

Yes, but West Ham's draw should see them - more or less - removed from the dangers posed by sudden descent into the trapdoor of the drop zone.

This time of year, - while the first two teams to relegate are rarely in doubt, sometimes, there is always a danger that the game of musical chairs catches out someone unexpectedly to fill that third place, especially if a few teams are bunched together closely on points.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes, but West Ham's draw should see them - more or less - removed from the dangers posed by sudden descent into the trapdoor of the drop zone.

This time of year, - while the first two teams to relegate are rarely in doubt, sometimes, there is always a danger that the game of musical chairs catches out someone unexpectedly to fill that third place, especially if a few teams are bunched together closely on points.

Pretty sure it's 2 from Hull, Swansea and Middlesbrough. But you never know for sure.

 

[JamesMike]

So, Sunderland - after a truly, lamentably, and quite impressively awful season - are relegated as of today, entirely deservedly. Mathematically, it is now impossible for them to recover but this outcome has been inevitable for months.

Elsewhere, Hull obtain a valuable point against Southampton, putting pressure on Swansea.

I just watched the highlights of the Sunderland match and see why they were relegated.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I just watched the highlights of the Sunderland match and see why they were relegated.

They were (are) the worst team in the Premiership by a considerable margin - their statistics are atrocious.

The tragedy is that their supporters are ferociously and passionately loyal - in a deprived and impoverished - part of the country, an the team commands a fierce devotion that they don't really merit.

Of that team, perhaps three - the goalkeeper, Jordan Pickford, (who is outstanding, modest, hardworking), Jermain Defoe, (who has been excellent and consistently motivated) - and, perhaps, Lamine Koné - have played passionately, and with conviction.

Most of the rest are not just journeymen, and time-servers, but lazy, unmotivated journeymen and time-servers, drawing astonishing salaries in a dreadfully deprived part of the country.

Relegation will do them good; they need to clear out large number of the players, and the dysfunctional management (David Moyes is just the face of it, not the cause), and dreadful administration and atmosphere also need to be addressed..

Just remember the disgraceful Adam Johnson debacle from last year - a situation where the club protected the player for far too long, pretending ignorance, until confronted with evidence that made it clear such a stance was no longer credible.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A most unfair penalty awarded to Manchester United (let us see the dreadful Mr Mourinho find a way to complain about that, given that he whines and whinges about almost everything else, from what he says is the malingering mindset and cowardice of his own injured players, referees, opposing teams, the media....), at the every end of the first half, giving them a most unmerited lead.
[doublepost=1493555631][/doublepost]Actually, I'd love to see Swansea pull one back, if only in the interest of fairness.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Brother just stuck his head into my study to remark to me, in a tone heavy with ominous glee, "You're living dangerously".

 

[Apple fanboy]

Can't believe neither of the Manchester clubs want that final Champions League place. Both have thrown away two points today.
Keeps it interesting at the bottom as well.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Can't believe neither of the Manchester clubs want that final Champions League place. Both have thrown away two points today.
Keeps it interesting at the bottom as well.

Yes, Gary Linker remarked on Twitter that there seemed to be what he described as "a determination" among the top clubs to "allow" Arsenal a fourth place finish.

Not on today's dismal performance - but I take some faint hope from the stuttering, and stumbling performances of both Manchester clubs, and the somewhat erratic path Liverpool seem intent on following for now.

 

[Alphazoid]

Spurs weren't that good. Arsenal were just abysmal. That said the former deserved to win. The league has been poor. I'm actually ready for the season to end.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Spurs weren't that good. Arsenal were just abysmal. That said the former deserved to win. The league has been poor. I'm actually ready for the season to end.

Agreed, Arsenal were abysmal - they didn't even display backbone, or a desire to fight, let alone win.

Spurs wanted to win, and were motivated, and passionate, - and - at the end - that was all that mattered.

 

[JamesMike]

My Arsenal friends are a bit upset. My Man U team were lucky to get a draw.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

My Arsenal friends are a bit upset. My Man U team were lucky to get a draw.

Well, I'm not upset - Arsenal were atrocious. Worse, they were embarrassing. They shamed me.

Nevertheless, I'd have liked to have seen evidence of some degree of mental (and physical) resilience, and a bit of an appetite for the fray.

And something like some sense of positional intelligence - an awareness of space, and where team-mates, the ball and opponents might be found in a three dimensional setting, and to be able to anticipate how to place oneself accordingly, a little like Vulcan three dimensional chess - something which is not, I think, an unreasonable demand on gentlemen earning five or six figure salaries a week.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Mourinho's lack of attacking nous fails him twice in a week, as he passes up the chance to put himself in pole position for a top four finish. Drawing at OT against a team almost certain to be relegated when a top four spot is on the line, using the world's most expensive team is not exactly top-manager form. You could slot Phil Brown in and he'd probably be able to equal that result...

Obvious dive from Rashford, and it was nauseating to hear pundits like Michael Owen on TV defending his dive (because he's an England international). If they'd been talking about Costa, Sanchez, or Firmino they would have been tripping over each other to condemn it. But because it was an England player he was simply going down to "protect his body". Nonsense.

Liverpool now have a second chance to take control of their fate in the league, and they had better take it. Watford are a decent team but they have nothing to play for. Liverpool's defense is in tatters but they can still score goals.

 

[JamesMike]

Getting ready to watch the Liverpool/Watford match.

Great goal by Liverpool.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

That rarest of things, a 1-0 Liverpool win, and away from home to boot. Both teams had early injuries to key players, and I think that ruined each of their plans to a certain extent. The games became relatively boring and disjointed after that.

The whole affair was settled by a single moment of brilliance from Can, even though Watford were unlucky to score right at the death, hitting the bar instead.

Despite the positive result, Liverpool missed several chances to boost their goal difference, which is now just one ahead of that of Man City (who have a game in hand) - and with the race for 3rd and fourth so tight goal difference could become important.

The key thing is, if Liverpool win all three of their remaining games they will finish in the top four now. Southampton, West Ham, Middlesbrough - just the kinds of teams Liverpool struggle against.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That rarest of things, a 1-0 Liverpool win, and away from home to boot. Both teams had early injuries to key players, and I think that ruined each of their plans to a certain extent. The games became relatively boring and disjointed after that.

The whole affair was settled by a single moment of brilliance from Can, even though Watford were unlucky to score right at the death, hitting the bar instead.

Despite the positive result, Liverpool missed several chances to boost their goal difference, which is now just one ahead of that of Man City (who have a game in hand) - and with the race for 3rd and fourth so tight goal difference could become important.

The key thing is, if Liverpool win all three of their remaining games they will finish in the top four now. Southampton, West Ham, Middlesbrough - just the kinds of teams Liverpool struggle against.

Good analysis, but Liverpool still produced the goods at a time when the temptation to stutter might have put some pressure on them.