The 2016-2017 Football Thread

[Lord Blackadder]

A quick comment on Sunderland. I intend no disrespect to Sunderland fans (the fans are always the ones that have to suffer), but I am overjoyed to see Sunderland relegated. It is critical to note that this was NOT David Moyes' fault - or at least, he is pretty far down the list of responsible parties. All the punditry criticizing him is effectively, if inadvertently, serving as a smokescreen for Ellis Short.

Ellis Short is a failure as a football club owner. If he held any other role at the club than owner he would have been sacked years ago for rank incompetence. But, since Ellis Short can only be sacked by Ellis Short, the club are stuck with him and his dunderheaded "leadership" for the foreseeable future.

In the transfer market, Short bought high and sold low, wasting huge sums of money. His managerial choices ranged from short-termist troubleshooters who did a quick rescue job and moved on, to unstable ex-players having their first shot at the top-division - and failing at it. The other club suits share the blame for this, but they are all Ellis' men, and the buck has to stop somewhere. That they have survived in the Premier league as long as they have is a testament to luck and the fact that some teams are actually even worse than they are.

I doubt anything will change soon - Short's reward for being an utter failure at running a football club in the premier league is £100 million and a spot in the Championship, itself a good, competitive league.

So all we are left with is a little slap on the wrist for Ellis, and I suppose we'll have to content ourselves with that. You stink at running a football club, Ellis, you finished dead-ass-last, and you're going down. Maybe, just maybe, that will spur some positive changes. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Fizzoid]

Rant time!

So, I'm completely outraged at what happened to Sulley Muntari:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39792319

But really Garth???

Why just black players? If we want to stamp out racism, stop defining it! Let's see ALL players strike in protest, or at the very least, his team mates!!!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

A quick comment on Sunderland. I intend no disrespect to Sunderland fans (the fans are always the ones that have to suffer), but I am overjoyed to see Sunderland relegated. It is critical to note that this was NOT David Moyes' fault - or at least, he is pretty far down the list of responsible parties. All the punditry criticizing him is effectively, if inadvertently, serving as a smokescreen for Ellis Short.

Ellis Short is a failure as a football club owner. If he held any other role at the club than owner he would have been sacked years ago for rank incompetence. But, since Ellis Short can only be sacked by Ellis Short, the club are stuck with him and his dunderheaded "leadership" for the foreseeable future.

In the transfer market, Short bought high and sold low, wasting huge sums of money. His managerial choices ranged from short-termist troubleshooters who did a quick rescue job and moved on, to unstable ex-players having their first shot at the top-division - and failing at it. The other club suits share the blame for this, but they are all Ellis' men, and the buck has to stop somewhere. That they have survived in the Premier league as long as they have is a testament to luck and the fact that some teams are actually even worse than they are.

I doubt anything will change soon - Short's reward for being an utter failure at running a football club in the premier league is £100 million and a spot in the Championship, itself a good, competitive league.

So all we are left with is a little slap on the wrist for Ellis, and I suppose we'll have to content ourselves with that. You stink at running a football club, Ellis, you finished dead-ass-last, and you're going down. Maybe, just maybe, that will spur some positive changes. But I'm not holding my breath.

Excellent post, and I agree with you, not least in that blaming David Moyes is somehow to completely miss the point - and yes, you are absolutely right - the blame lies with Ellis Short, and the utterly dysfunctional regime he has installed in that club.

Their (belated and reluctant and morally rotten) response last year to the challenges presented by what Adam Johnson had done spoke volumes about their priorities, and mindset.

On the transfer market, they have been exceptionally poor, atrocious in fact, - not just buying high and selling low - but showing dismal knowledge and judgment by consistently buying rubbish - a situation that long pre-dated the arrival of Mr Moyes at the club.

Their wages bill is obscene - a top ten team's bill on performances and players that - clearly - merit an awful lot less. Relegation is a saving grace in some ways, as a wage reduction of 50% in the event of relegation is written into each player's contract.

The tragedy is that they have some passionately dedicated and fiercely loyal supporters, (whom they have let down badly), and the football team is something that people in a desperately deprived part of the country look to as a source of escape, or dreams, or pride. They also have a superlative stadium, and some of the best training facilities - and equipment - in the country.

But, agreed, they deserved to go down, and should have relegated last year.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Rant time!

So, I'm completely outraged at what happened to Sulley Muntari:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39792319

But really Garth???

Why just black players? If we want to stamp out racism, stop defining it! Let's see ALL players strike in protest, or at the very least, his team mates!!!

Completely disgusting. The people running Serie A have shown their utter cowardice in the face of a gaggle of ranting bigots. The level of racism that is tolerated within football is beyond the pale, and it is heartbreaking to see them essentially punish a player for being abused because he is black.

The Italian league is hiding behind insignificant little rules and technicalities in order to avoid facing what is admittedly a very difficult social issue; but, frankly, that is their job. Until strong punishments are handed out regularly - to the racist chanters, to the club, to the league - nothing will change.

A slap on the wrist is worse than useless, but we didn't even see that happen here - the authorities went as far towards ignoring it as they possibly could without actually officially ignoring it. Revolting.

But how will anything ever change when FIFA itself took the extraordinarily hubristic/breathtakingly ignorant step of declaring that they've solved racism? With a handshake!!!???

 

[Fizzoid]

I think Garth and the BBC may have taken onboard my tweets to them on this, and the support they got

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39792319

Crooks added: "This is not just about black players, we've moved on from that. This is about players.

"And I'm also a little alarmed that Sulley Muntari's team-mates have not become involved in this

My points exactly! Even his team mates' silence is deafening!

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Man Utd with a dull but effective and fairly easy 1-0 away win over Celta Vigo. A dull 0-0 will seal the tie at OT for Mou as he marches on towards the trophy he's always hated.

Rashford continues to carry the team on his back. Without him they'd never lose - but never win either.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Man Utd with a dull but effective and fairly easy 1-0 away win over Celta Vigo. A dull 0-0 will seal the tie at OT for Mou as he marches on towards the trophy he's always hated.

Rashford continues to carry the team on his back. Without him the'y never lose - but never win either.

Listened to it on the way home. Sounded pretty dull.
Standard Mourinio. Dull and defensive.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Watching the West Ham v Spurs game. We are doing a good job of frustrating them!

Goal! Come on you irons!

 

[Alphazoid]

Spurs fail at the edge of success yet again.

 

[pachyderm]

Watching the West Ham v Spurs game. We are doing a good job of frustrating them!

Goal! Come on you irons!

you're a hammer? well that explains a lot.

 

[Apple fanboy]

you're a hammer. well that explains a lot.

The high intellect and shear class?

Good win for us tonight. We could easily have scored a lot more in the second half.
We played well, but Spurs I'm afraid have bottled it again.

 

[pachyderm]

The high intellect and shear class?

Good win for us tonight. We could easily have scored a lot more in the second half.
We played well, but Spurs I'm afraid have bottled it again.

Yeah.

Surely Spurs fans knew it was coming.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Yes, Spurs did indeed "bottle it" yet again, at exactly the same time of the season when they did so last year.

Indeed, I remember the remark at the end of last season about how they had contrived "to come third in a two horse race".

So, Chelsea at a canter for the coronation (and the point there is both Mr Conte's tactical acumen, and Mr Mourinho's utter failure to motivate a team comprised of many of the same players last year, when they essentially mutinied against him).

For that matter, the volume of complaining, whining, sniping and whinging coming out from Mr Mourinho in Old Trafford means that even in his first season, irrespective of what he wins, he has already left already a bad taste in the mouth.

 

[pachyderm]

For the record though I don't believe anyone was going to catch Chelsea anyway.

 

[Apple fanboy]

For the record though I don't believe anyone was going to catch Chelsea anyway.

Agree.
Interesting to note Sunderland (now relegated) managed a rare win. So often the way.
Not sure if it's the pressure off or the players looking for a transfer.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

For the record though I don't believe anyone was going to catch Chelsea anyway.

Agreed, - I've thought since Christmas that unless Chelsea faltered - which they didn't - the title was theirs to lose - but it would have been nice if the the remainder of the season had, at least, the appearance of a competition rather than a gentle canter to an inevitable coronation.

Agree.
Interesting to note Sunderland (now relegated) managed a rare win. So often the way.
Not sure if it's the pressure off or the players looking for a transfer.

Initially, I thought this a clichéd sting in the tail, but, I suspect with the pressure off, Sunderland might actually get a few more points in the bag. They will no longer be frozen with paralysed fear as they take to the pitch - the result is meaningless (to them) but it means that they might be in a position to deliver a posthumous stiff blow or two before they actually relegate.

 

[JamesMike]

Hoping for a good match tomorrow between Man U/Arsenal.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Some odd results today, though, real end-of-season unpredictability.

Sunderland inflicting damage on Hull, Swansea dismissing Everton, Spurs stuttering and stumbling last night......Leicester demolishing Watford, Manchester City annihilating Crystal Palace (and reminding us why there was a time they would have been seen as a serious challenger for the top position).....and so on.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Hoping for a good match tomorrow between Man U/Arsenal.

The race for 5th!
[doublepost=1494106483][/doublepost]

Some odd results today, though, real end-of-season unpredictability.

Sunderland inflicting damage on Hull, Swansea dismissing Everton, Spurs stuttering and stumbling last night......Leicester demolishing Watford, Manchester City annihilating Crystal Palace (and reminding us why there was a time they would have been seen as a serious challenger for the top position).....and so on.

Just watched the Man City game. Palace have been a lot better later, but they were poor today.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Hoping for a good match tomorrow between Man U/Arsenal.

Hm.

Hoping indeed.

I doubt it will be a "good" match - under Mr Mourinho, Manchester United were encouraged to play a sour and spoiling sort of football, and Arsenal are notoriously brittle.

But it may be an interesting match.

The race for 5th!

Touché.

It would be nice to think that we still might be in contention for fourth, but 1) I doubt it, and 2) to be perfectly candid, we do not deserve it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Hm.

Hoping indeed.

I doubt it will be a "good" match - under Mr Mourinho, Manchester United play a sour and spoiling sort of football, and Arsenal are notoriously brittle.

But it may be an interesting match.



Touché.

It would be nice to think that we still might be in contention for fourth, but 1) I doubt it, and 2) to be perfectly candid, we do not deserve it.

True on both counts. But better than where we're going to finish up!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

True on both counts. But better than where we're going to finish up!

Well, the larger issues for West Ham seem to me to be the challenge of crafting an identity for themselves in the new stadium, and addressing the financial stuff that appears under be under investigation.

They are actually higher in the table that I would have expected, or than they deserved going on their performances for much of the earlier part of the season.

Re Mr Mourinho, as he is already belittling, insulting, denigrating and bullying individual players, - and, unlike other stints at previous clubs - he has not and will not - win a major trophy this year, (yes, he is clawing his way to the Europa Cup), the antagonism and negativity of his management style that surrounds him and bears his sticky thumb prints, will surely increase at United rather then be suppressed (as would've been the case if he had won something major), which means that next year could become very tense.

Remember, he completely lost the dressing room at Chelsea, a club that he had steered to triumph while manager on two different occasions; if anything, Chelsea had reason to be grateful to him, whereas United - used to the golden years (decades) of a procession of trophies and successes under the redoubtable Mr Ferguson may be more reluctant to embrace him wholeheartedly.

In other words, he could completely lose the dressing room there, too, and - nowadays - he comes with baggage, and a corrosive negative and nihilistic personality. He has parted acrimoniously from all of his recent employers, and I cannot see the situation at United being any different.
[doublepost=1494107905][/doublepost]And, as for Arsenal, and Mr Wenger, that is a different discussion.....for a later post.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

So frustrating to be a a Liverpool supporter today. For all the team's talent and Klopp's attractive, positive football, Liverpool remain a team with a gigantic flaw - they can't beat teams who refuse to play. The best teams punish weaker teams for sitting back and defending too much; Liverpool simply run out of ideas.

Southampton did nothing the entire match, and they knew they didn't have to do anything. Liverpool went into this match with a tremendous physiological disadvantage - at home, in a must-win game against a mid table Premier League team who knew how to defend and frustrate opponents. With every passing minute the crowd and players become more and more frustrated; all Southampton needed to do was chase, harry, and frustrate. Milner's penalty miss was the moment when I knew a top four finish was not going to be in Liverpool's hands.

Jurgen Klopp needs to brainstorm this summer and come up with a solution for breaking down defensive teams. Injuries have left the squad thin, and that was a factor, but there needs to be a strategy for forcing teams like Southampton to come out and play. Despite having no possession and rarely bothering to attack, Southampton dictated the terms of the match, and that is why Liverpool dropped points - and their best chance for a top four finish - today.

Re Mr Mourinho, as he is already belittling, insulting, denigrating and bullying individual players...

[snip]

...In other words, he could completely lose the dressing room there, too, and - nowadays - he comes with baggage, and a corrosive negative and nihilistic personality. He has parted acrimoniously from all of his recent employers, and I cannot see the situation at United being any different.

I loathe Mourinho, I think I've made that clear on multiple occasions.

However, he wins major trophies at every club he manages (never mind he is handed the most money and the best players...). As long as Mourinho maintains his reputation as a man who can get results quickly wherever he goes, none of the awful qualities you highlight will matter to club owners - who, as we all know, are a crooked bunch of plutocrats anyway. They see in Mourinho an ideal henchman, perfectly suited for the job they pay him to do. To them he is just like the rest of crowd of fixers they surround themselves with: money-laundering "financial advisers" who cheat the taxman, bent lawyers who make various problems go away, sycophantic journalists who shill for them in major rags, craven football association officials who can easily be intimidated into keeping the good times rolling among the richest clubs, dodgy sponsors...Mourinho is an important part of all of this, which we call "modern football".

 

[Scepticalscribe]

And Arsenal - in one of those inexplicably and wonderfully improbable performances they seem to be able to produce on occasion - rabbit-like, from silk lined top hats - but cannot re-produce with any degree of predictable consistent reliability, - thoroughly defeat Manchester United by 2-0, showing that - on their day, and in the right mood, when temperament and the stars line up in a straight line - they can they are still capable of flashes of sheer brilliance.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Despite Mourinho's claims of fielding a weakened team, this was no B squad; Mourinho ended up using all of his resources to try and win the match.

Arsenal's win is also a massive let-off for Liverpool, who had effectively handed Man Utd a top four finish this morning. Man Utd will win the Europa League anyway, of course, so it doesn't really matter from their perspective.

The funny thing is, had Man Utd instead played Southampton at home and Liverpool instead faced Arsenal away, I'd wager both Man Utd and Liverpool would have won today...