Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The 2016-2017 Football Thread
- Thread starter Apple fanboy
- Start date
-
- Tags
- football
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Agreed.
Yes, it was clear that they had not fallen prey to the mental brittleness and tendency to flakiness that sometimes overcomes them, and - manifestly - ballooned in confidence the longer the game progressed.
Having £££ and very good players doesn't always guarantee a trophy, as Pep has found out, the hard way. I think not even putting up some sort of title challenge is a big underachievement
Oh, agreed, as you so eloquently phrase it "having ££££ and very good players" doesn't indeed guarantee a trophy; Mr Mourinho found that out last year at Chelsea, where - despite having won the trophy the year before, he lost the dressing room so catastrophically that Chelsea dallied near the trap door end of the table for a short while id only to make a point.
Re Pep Guardiola, I think this season has been an exceptionally steep learning curve for him, - presenting challenges he has not encountered in his career to date - and he is still only in his first season. Next season will be a better test of his abilities in adapting successfully to the challenges of the Premiership.
Agreed - but I think it needs to be pointed out that since he left Porto Mou has always has the best resources at his disposal. Few competing managers are blessed with similar resources.
Moreover, Pep is a stylistic purist (to an excessive degree, many argue); Mourinho is entirely results-oriented. Pep sees management as a multiseason "project" to inculcate his style; Mourinho sees teams as the most efficient means to an end (trophies, bragging rights, the pursuit of grudges).
Which isn't to say Pep is Good and Mourinho is Bad (even if I see him as a villain myself); but Pep's personality and the football he advocates is a lot easier to like from a neutral perspective.
Certainly Pep's second season is the one he should be judged on, I was just expecting more from someone who's rated as the best manager in the world, especially considering City's squad and resources
As for Mourinho having the best resources at his disposal, certainly Man U have spent BIG over the past few seasons, and always fallen short, with this season being no exception. However, even with all that money they spent, no player has stood out, except for Ibra, who came on a free!
As for Mourinho having the best resources at his disposal, certainly Man U have spent BIG over the past few seasons, and always fallen short, with this season being no exception. However, even with all that money they spent, no player has stood out, except for Ibra, who came on a free!
So, Ched Evans has been re-signed by Sheffield United, a year after his rape conviction from 2012 was overturned. And extremely sordid affair, and while he has been legally exonerated it has been a damaging process from which nobody has emerged with any credit in my eyes. The behavior of some "fans" of Evans during this sad episode has been nothing short of barbaric.
Without revisiting the subject of his guilt or innocence, I think it is a fair question to ask why Sheffield United feel that the benefits of signing an average striker who has barely played in five years is worth the controversy that his presence is SURE to bring.
I think it's hard to see the season as anything other than a disappointment. On the other hand, Pep inherited a somewhat patchy squad (considering the money spent) and morale was not high. His approach will take time to bear fruit. If I were a Man City fan I wouldn't worry too much, though success will probably cost a lot more money and require patience.
Mourinho did a lot of buying right away and none of his transfers have been unqualified successes. His most effective players are arguably squad members he inherited (Rashford, De Gea, even Fellaini). Ibra is world-class but I think one could argue that his presence often muddies the tactical situation, making other midfielders and attackers a bit less effective. Players like Martial, Pogba, and Mkhitaryan are heavily under-performing, and Rooney has fallen off a cliff.
The question with Mourinho is, can he win enough trophies to make his time at Man Utd a success before his toxic personality necessitates his sacking? Conventional wisdom dictates that next season is going to be his peak at Man Utd. After that comes the next episode of villainy: something like a Tito Vilanova eye poke, or the Eva Carneiro abuse, falling out with players...
Without revisiting the subject of his guilt or innocence, I think it is a fair question to ask why Sheffield United feel that the benefits of signing an average striker who has barely played in five years is worth the controversy that his presence is SURE to bring.
I think it's hard to see the season as anything other than a disappointment. On the other hand, Pep inherited a somewhat patchy squad (considering the money spent) and morale was not high. His approach will take time to bear fruit. If I were a Man City fan I wouldn't worry too much, though success will probably cost a lot more money and require patience.
Mourinho did a lot of buying right away and none of his transfers have been unqualified successes. His most effective players are arguably squad members he inherited (Rashford, De Gea, even Fellaini). Ibra is world-class but I think one could argue that his presence often muddies the tactical situation, making other midfielders and attackers a bit less effective. Players like Martial, Pogba, and Mkhitaryan are heavily under-performing, and Rooney has fallen off a cliff.
The question with Mourinho is, can he win enough trophies to make his time at Man Utd a success before his toxic personality necessitates his sacking? Conventional wisdom dictates that next season is going to be his peak at Man Utd. After that comes the next episode of villainy: something like a Tito Vilanova eye poke, or the Eva Carneiro abuse, falling out with players...
Very fair comment and an eloquent and very elegant critical comparative analysis of the management style and respective ambitions of the two men in question.
I have long disliked Mr Mourinho - not just for what you have so aptly described as his desired ends - "trophies, bragging rights, the pursuit of grudges" - but now, I detest him, above all for the corrosive contempt he has shown to injured players, attacking their integrity and motivation (and putting their very health and long term recovery at risk) at the very time when professionally, they are fragile - and perhaps fearful of risking future injury - and personally, their confidence is often shot to pieces as a result of their injury.
This treatment of injured players - sneering at their lack of ambition, portraying them as malingerers, and questioning their courage and motivation when they (on medical advice) seek to recover fully before declaring themselves fit to play - ties in with his disgraceful treatment of Dr Carniero at the start of last year's season in Chelsea.
As @Lord Blackadder has pointed out, other managers - such as Mr Mourinho - have been given far more resources than Pep Guardiola and have failed to deliver.
I think it fairer to judge Pep Guardiola next year, when he will have had a better idea of what the Premiership is about, and can plan accordingly for the needs of the Premiership. Besides, because I like the man and his mindset, I am more than prepared to cut him a bit of slack on such matters.
Of course, this puts the superb achievement of Mr Conte - managing Chelsea with impressive panache to a cantering coronation as premiership Champions at his first attempt - into even sharper relief.
Last edited:
Rumor has it that he could go to Arsenal - though there is absolutely no indication that Wenger is leaving yet.
A further demonstration of grace and class from Mr Conte yesterday; after the match against Middlesbrough, which Middlesbrough lost (comprehensively), and which cost them their place in the Premiership as they have now been relegated, Mr Conte went over to the Middlesbrough fans and players and applauded them - having expressed his respect for the fact that the Middlesbrough fans and players were applauding one another.
Leg 1 05/14/17
Leg 2 05/17/17
Good luck!
I am still surprised Newcastle took it down to the wire; I expected them to run away with the league.
Good luck. Such nervous games. Especially if you get to the final. I remember the year we came up that way!
Leg 1 05/14/17
Leg 2 05/17/17
[doublepost=1494351750][/doublepost]
Couldn't see Mourino doing that!
To be honest I'm not a big fan of Middlesbrough though. They have been a yoyo team for years. Spent millions with little to show for it!
Mind you. People in glass houses.....
That was my very point - Mr Mourinho wouldn't have (and wouldn't have had) the decency, grace or generosity of character to think of doing anything of the sort.
No, I'm not a fan of Middlesbrough either, but I thought Mr Conte's gesture gracious, generous and respectful, and I like that he did it. After all, character matters too.
And - good luck @pachyderm.
Last edited:
I'm no Juventus fan - they have a pretty dodgy history actually, and are major overdogs in Italy...but it's all relative, and I'd prefer to see them topple Real Madrid if the alternative is yet another Real win and Crispy strutting around with his shirt off.
They look like a dangerous team at any rate - a superb defensive unit with genuine attacking threats and lots of veteran players.
They look like a dangerous team at any rate - a superb defensive unit with genuine attacking threats and lots of veteran players.
Including your humble scribe.
This means that a fourth place finish is not entirely impossible or improbable - or rather, it is a little less unlikely - especially if either Liverpool or Manchester City stumble a little before then.
I think it's still a big ask. But I'd choose Arsenal over Man City or Liverpool.
Agreed.
It is "a big ask". A very big ask. But it is no longer an utter impossibility - it is, - just about - neither impossible nor improbable.
However, the other key point is - that while Arsenal must, of course, keep that winning habit, their fate is no longer entirely in their own hands. They must hope that either (or both) Manchester City and/or Liverpool stutter an stumble, too, before season's end.
Arsenal should be able to win their last three matches easily. So should Man City.
As for Liverpool, it's impossible to predict. They need two wins, but even against Middlesbrough I'm not confident. West Ham even less so. Liverpool are capable of losing against even the weakest opponents when those opponents play a physical game and defend deep. It's important Liverpool beat West Ham, so that the other three are forced to win their games in hand.
If they all win out, the race for the top four will end like this:
3. Man City 78
4. Liverpool 76
5. Arsenal 75
6. Man Utd 74
That means nobody can afford to drop any points except Man City, and even they could easily still miss fourth on goal difference if they have even one draw in the last three matches and if Liverpool run up a big score in one of their games.
As for Liverpool, it's impossible to predict. They need two wins, but even against Middlesbrough I'm not confident. West Ham even less so. Liverpool are capable of losing against even the weakest opponents when those opponents play a physical game and defend deep. It's important Liverpool beat West Ham, so that the other three are forced to win their games in hand.
If they all win out, the race for the top four will end like this:
3. Man City 78
4. Liverpool 76
5. Arsenal 75
6. Man Utd 74
That means nobody can afford to drop any points except Man City, and even they could easily still miss fourth on goal difference if they have even one draw in the last three matches and if Liverpool run up a big score in one of their games.
Well put, and I can't argue with that.
Arsenal's problem is that - even if they manage to win their remaining fixtures, which is not beyond them, and their results (not necessarily their performances, which are uneven, or their confidence, which is still more brittle than I care to see) - their results have improved since Mr Wenger tinkered with the actual formation and introduced a back three - their fate is no longer entirely in their own hands.
And, they have only themselves to blame for this. They have lost a few games too many.
Liverpool and Man City are in the driver's seat, but Arsenal's form has picked up a bit of late and Mourinho/Man Utd have a habit of getting the cards to fall their way at just the right moment.
All four teams have lost silly matches recently; Liverpool faced Southampton four times this season and failed to score in any of those matches. It gives me flashbacks to 2008-2009 when Liverpool's two limp 0-0 draws with Pulis' Stoke blew up their title chances. In both cases they were winnable games. This despite doing the double over Ferg's Man Utd.
- Status