The 2023-2024 Football Thread

[Scepticalscribe]

Exactly. We play on the break and concede possession. It suits our team. But can be a nervous watch sometimes!

I can well imagine.

However, I think that West Ham are well organised, and I also think that Moyes has been mischaracterised (and condescended to and dismissed) as a tactical dinosaur by far too many of the sporting literati, commentators, and sundry pundits.

He has been very good at getting West Ham to play together as a team, focus on a common goal, and play to their strengths.

It is no shame to have been defeated by the behemoth, the monstrous and formidably well-resourced juggernaut that is Manchester City in their current incarnation.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Di Zerbi coached rings around ETH, and Brighton's players worked twice as hard as United's. Brighton had a few key absences in their squad, but kept right on rolling, so that's one fewer excuse for United's poor display. Maybe things would've been different if Højlund's equalized had stood, but that was bad luck the ball went barely out of play beforehand. Probably not.

United are still not a coherent team, notwithstanding ETH's efforts; they are a collection of individuals, some of them talented, others less so.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

@Silencio & @Apple fanboy: The irony is that I think that Maguire would have done pretty well at West Ham; while one cannot say this definitively, I think that they would have been a good match for one another, and - hopefully - Maguire will have another think about this before the next transfer window.

 

[Apple fanboy]

@Silencio & @Apple fanboy: The irony is that I think that Maguire would have done pretty well at West Ham; while one cannot say this definitively, I think that they would have been a good match for one another, and - hopefully - Maguire will have another think about this before the next transfer window.

I tend to agree. He’s been a bit of a scapegoat for Utd’s current struggles, and clearly that’s not the case. He’s not even playing. They have issues in a number of positions.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I tend to agree. He’s been a bit of a scapegoat for Utd’s current struggles, and clearly that’s not the case. He’s not even playing. They have issues in a number of positions.

An all too convenient scapegoat.

As you say, they have issues in a number of positions, and the team has been fundamentally unbalanced for (at least) the better part of a decade.

 

[laptech]

There is a BBC interview where ETH says 'players need to step up' giving his assessment of his players. The thing is, getting players to 'step up' is the managers job. It is the managers job to get the best out of the players and if he doesn't then he has to figure out what the problems are. Is ETH losing the dressing room or has he lost the dressing room because there is the debacle of the club trying to sell Maguire but Maguire refusing to go (it would be ETH decision he no longer wants Maguire) therefore Maguire is obviously aware that he no longer features in his managers plans which could result in his attitude and temperament dropping. There is the debacle surrounding Mason Greenwood. He has had a public spat with Sancho where ETH is not deciding on what disciplinary action to take against Sancho and they have the Antony situation where the club has pulled him away from the club. Now he's publicly criticised the players for something that is his responsibility. All of this going on must be having an affect on the players minds and wondering if ETH is really the man for the job.

 

[Apple fanboy]

There is a BBC interview where ETH says 'players need to step up' giving his assessment of his players. The thing is, getting players to 'step up' is the managers job. It is the managers job to get the best out of the players and if he doesn't then he has to figure out what the problems are. Is ETH losing the dressing room or has he lost the dressing room because there is the debacle of the club trying to sell Maguire but Maguire refusing to go (it would be ETH decision he no longer wants Maguire) therefore Maguire is obviously aware that he no longer features in his managers plans which could result in his attitude and temperament dropping. There is the debacle surrounding Mason Greenwood. He has had a public spat with Sancho where ETH is not deciding on what disciplinary action to take against Sancho and they have the Antony situation where the club has pulled him away from the club. Now he's publicly criticised the players for something that is his responsibility. All of this going on must be having an affect on the players minds and wondering if ETH is really the man for the job.

Thing is if ETH isn’t the right man, who is? They’ve had more managers than trophies since AF stepped down.
Something else is wrong at that club than just the manager. They seem to either attract the wrong sort of players or their players seem to be picking up bad habits from each other (not all obviously).
The contrast with Brighton couldn’t be clearer. A team that punch above their weight despite selling their players. A team that play for each other. No egos to manage. Just a professional football team doing their thing.

 

[daneoni]

Re-Utd. Maguire or Sancho not to blame this time. McTominay showed why he's not been a Utd starter with Brighton's first goal. he was jogging back and watched Welbeck run past him.
Rashford seems to be competing with Hojlund instead of playing with him
Eriksen and Casemiro i don't think will work nor is it sustainable.
Its crazy that with the money spent. Utd still look like they need 4 more players to compete
Brighton weren't even at full strenght but were still able to bring on Ansu Fati, Ferguson and Pedro. Utd had to rely on Martial and their youngsters.
I have sympathy for ETH because of the off-field issues going on. Last season it was CR7. Now its Antony and Sancho.

Meanwhile, West Ham played really well...just the difference in quality showed in the end.
Spurs keep marching but Sheff Utd only have themselves to blame for losing control.
Racism again rears its ugly head against Foderingham. A perpetual curse/stain on sports globally.

Liverpool again have to come from behind but appear to be building momentum. But defensively still brittle.
Newcastle remain unconvincing.
Lots of ET means lots of late goals this season. For better or worse.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Re-Utd. Maguire or Sancho not to blame this time. McTominay showed why he's not been a Utd starter with Brighton's first goal. he was jogging back and watched Welbeck run past him.
Rashford seems to be competing with Hojlund instead of playing with him
Eriksen and Casemiro i don't think will work nor is it sustainable.
Its crazy that with the money spent. Utd still look like they need 4 more players to compete
Brighton weren't even at full strenght but were still able to bring on Ansu Fati, Ferguson and Pedro. Utd had to rely on Martial and their youngsters.
I have sympathy for ETH because of the off-field issues going on. Last season it was CR7. Now its Antony and Sancho.

Meanwhile, West Ham played really well...just the difference in quality showed in the end.
Spurs keep marching but Sheff Utd only have themselves to blame for losing control.
Racism again rears its ugly head against Foderingham. A perpetual curse/stain on sports globally.

Liverpool again have to come from behind but appear to be building momentum. But defensively still brittle.
Newcastle remain unconvincing.
Lots of ET means lots of late goals this season. For better or worse.

Re the Man Utd game, the press are really making a thing of how badly Man Utd played. But they lost to Brighton. Their record reads won 4, lost 1 this season. They are a top team these days. I think it’s disrespectful to just talk about Utd playing badly. Brighton played to their strengths and won.

We did the same against City, but ultimately couldn’t stop them from scoring. Haaland could have had a hatrick before half time. But we went in ahead. Still there is no shame to losing to City these days.

 

[daneoni]

Re the Man Utd game, the press are really making a thing of how badly Man Utd played. But they lost to Brighton. Their record reads won 4, lost 1 this season. They are a top team these days. I think it’s disrespectful to just talk about Utd playing badly. Brighton played to their strengths and won.

We did the same against City, but ultimately couldn’t stop them from scoring. Haaland could have had a hatrick before half time. But we went in ahead. Still there is no shame to losing to City these days.

True Brighton are a top team. No disrespect to them. But Utd at home should be offering more than they did

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Finally got around to watching the Wolves-Liverpool match. The first half was a near-disaster. Wolves targeted Gomez on the right and Neto skinned him over and over, it became painful to watch. After the early goal Wolves stopped trying to attack Liverpool with the ball - they just waited for Liverpool to attempt an attack, turn the ball over and then Wolves rushed forward. Salah and Jota hardly saw the ball except when helping defend.

The slowness of our defense was astonishing. The situation was badly compounded by the midfield losing the ball too often. Mac Allister had an off day and was being heavily targeted. Szobozlai was perhaps trying to do too much, making risky passes that were too easily intercepted. Wolves missed at least two further chances. Could easily have been 3-0 Wolves at the half.

Klopp made changes at the half and it immediately turned things around. MacAllister was pulled and Diaz came in to run at wolves. Followed by Elliot and Nunez. Szoboslai had more runners around him and his work was more effective. Klopp couldn’t fix the defending, but he could - and did - shore up the midfield and present more of a threat up front. Neto’s threat disappeared as ‘Pool attacked more and favored the left. The changes bore fruit almost right away with Gakpo tapping in after a lovely move in a congested box.

Then Wolves tired more than Liverpool towards the end before a combination of good attacking and a slice of luck yielded two more for Liverpool. Could have been 3-3, but Klopp’s changes transformed things and Liverpool took more of their chances.

This will be the pattern for the rest of the season - the midfield needs to do extra work to keep the ball in front of their own defense, preferably by keeping opponents on the back foot. Klopp will be hard pressed to constantly employ tactical workarounds to cover for the defense. And the team will probably have to chase games a lot to get wins. Against the strongest opponents it will be a real weakness.

 

[Silencio]

ETH has made mistakes, but I still think he's good enough that United should commit to implementing his vision for the long term. The buck stops with him, though: if the players aren't responding to his methods or his tactics aren't working, he needs to change a bit, but he does look pretty stubborn most of the time. It's a real concern.

Things will get better when injured players return and currently half-fit players like Lisandro get healthier. Personally, it looks like Varane is the biggest loss at the moment, but knowing he's become injury-prone, United really should've gone in for a young defender this summer to deputize for him and replace in him in the mid-term.

Really crossing my fingers that Amrabat can come in and make a big difference in midfield. However, I am very concerned by United's recruitment strategy of "players ETH has coached before". Speaks to the weakness of John Murtough and Darren Fletcher in this set-up.

 

[daneoni]

That was painful to watch Bou v Che

Meanwhile Moshiri decides to sell Everton to 777

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Total schadenfreude about Chelsea…a cynical project that just throws money at every problem. If Pochettino fails I don’t think he’ll deserve much blame.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Total schadenfreude about Chelsea…a cynical project that just throws money at every problem. If Pochettino fails I don’t think he’ll deserve much blame.

Schadenfreude, what a lovely and entirely apt word to use when writing about Chelsea.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

At Everton, Arsenal are ahead by a goal to nil.

 

[Sal09]

What more he needs to do to deserve a start. Every goal Trossard has scored for Arsenal been beautiful finish.

Glad we came through a tough game as we know how dirty Everton like to play.

I hope they get relegated this season.

 

[Apple fanboy]

What more he needs to do to deserve a start. Every goal Trossard has scored for Arsenal been beautiful finish.

Glad we came through a tough game as we know how dirty Everton like to play.

I hope they get relegated this season.

Lol. You sound like my Arsenal supporting mate. He hates Everton.
Personally I’d have preferred them to win as I seem to be looking at the top six more than the bottom six this year.

As for Trosdard I rate him highly. But why your manager doesn’t I don’t know.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

An excellent win for Arsenal away at Everton.

They didn't lose their concentration, just kept their shape and their focus.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

What more he needs to do to deserve a start. Every goal Trossard has scored for Arsenal been beautiful finish.

Glad we came through a tough game as we know how dirty Everton like to play.

I hope they get relegated this season.

Actually, my worry was not Trossard - whom I think an excellent, hard-working and stylish player - but when Kai Havertz appeared as a substitute on, or around, the 80th minute.

 

[Lioness~]

Spain WILL show up to play us (Sweden) this week in the Nations League 👍🏻

First their B-team was expected from what we heard, but they changed their mind. Their best team will come - except for Jennifer Hermoso, that doesn't want to be exposed to the media yet.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It has been reported this evening that Barry Bennell has died in prison.

We write - rightly - about the moral rot brought about by cynical commercial enterprises, or morally rotten individuals, ethics-free bodies or states that own football clubs, - but, ethics free football club owners are not confined to the current era of obscene wealth in football.

When Barry Bennell operated - almost with impunity - football was largely run by Our Own Lot, clubs who failed to hold him to account, and failed - failed utterly - to protect the youngsters who had been entrusted to his care.

 

[Silencio]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

A very grim story in every sense. And few of the people who, willingly or otherwise, turned a blind eye or failed to stop him were ever held responsible. I hope some lessons will have been learned from that, for the sake of today’s youth players.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Burnley get their first point! Now they just need another 39 to go with.