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The 2023-2024 Football Thread
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Nothing to say, really: today's result was all too predictable. I captained Haaland in FPL this week.
If and when SJR takes the reins and brings in his own footballing people, I will support whatever their decision is about keeping or sacking the manager. I just want the high up people to have a footballing philosophy and a plan to get where they want to go. It doesn't do any good to sack ETH before this structure is in place, it would just be repeating the same old cycle and nothing will change.
If and when SJR takes the reins and brings in his own footballing people, I will support whatever their decision is about keeping or sacking the manager. I just want the high up people to have a footballing philosophy and a plan to get where they want to go. It doesn't do any good to sack ETH before this structure is in place, it would just be repeating the same old cycle and nothing will change.
The problems at Manchester United predate ETH and go far, far deeper than him; in fact, I think that he has done a reasonably good job.
The only reason to sack him is because it is easier to sack one manager (and make a sacrificial offering to some sanguinary gods, fans, pundits, and so on) than to sack a team of under-performing (yet overpaid) players.
I agree, there is something fundamentally wrong at United ever since Ferguson retired which has affected every manager since. With regards to ETH, in my opinion his appointment shows there is something deeply wrong at United because when as Ajax manager, he had a team of players functioning as a team. Did they always perform at their best? of course not but it shows he knows how to get a group of players functioning as a team, granted it does not always work though but for the most part it did. Ever since his appointment as United manager he has struggled to get the team to gel even when he has bought in players that he specifically asked for/wanted. The squad picking is also a problem because even when Rashford and Bruno play badly on a weekly basis, he stills plays them which is the exact same problem the team had with Ole, he would constantly pick players who had been performing badly on the pitch.
History is repeating itself with United. They glory years under Sir Matt Busby and when he retired the club struggled to find their winning ways and went through a number of managers and it only took a stroke of luck for Ferguson to keep his job because it is a well known fact that he was due to be sacked and winning the FAC Cup saved him from being sacked as the club decided to give him another chance and as they say the rest is history. The winning came back to the club and with Ferguson retired, just like with Sire Matt Busby, the club have lost it's way and are again now going through a number of different managers to find the one that can bring winning ways back to the club.
Due to the mess the club was in before ETH arrived, many in the football business said it would probably take ETH 5-6 years to get United to their best again. He has not even been there 2 years and already people are talking about him getting the sack. People who know football said it would take ETH if anything at least 4 years minimum to get United close to their winning ways but 5-6 years was the best estimate due to the dire mess the team was in. ETH is a good manager, a magician he is not but it would seem that is what is being expected of him.
What people also tend to forget is that Manchester United were actually declining before Sir Alex Ferguson retired, but, such was his forceful character - and reputation - he managed to ensure that the team masked their deficiencies.
In other words, in Ferguson's final year or two in charge, Manchester United had over-performed.
However, while fans (and others) had come to expect an eternal carousel of endless success - as an automatic entitlement (which can no longer happen, not least, because the world of football has been transformed, in tactical terms, beyond all recognition) - for the Glazers, Manchester United is chiefly a platform for the extraction of profit, and therefore, success on the football field, while perfectly pleasant, is no longer even the main point of the exercise.
Ferguson retiring was a huge factor in the clubs demise because whilst many people have a go at the Glazers blaming them for the demise of the club, those blaming the Glazers have conveniently forgotten that when they took over the club in 2005 and with Ferguson as manager up until the point of his retirement (2005 - 2013, 8 years), the club won 5 Premier league titles, 3 League Cups, 4 Charity Shields, 1 European Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup.
Now to me those 8 years with Ferguson at the helm does not tell me there was a problem with the Glazers because the club was winning trophies. Like I said, with the Glazers now as club owners, the club had a good 8 years of winning trophies but that all came crashing down when Ferguson retired. The Glazers kept providing funds to buy players no different to what they have been doing ever since Ferguson's retirement but it has not worked out.
It has now been 10 years since Ferguson retired and the club have gone through 5 managers, now on their 6th and only won 6 trophies and the only trophies of note is the FA Cup and the UEFA Europa League cup but yet the Glazers have provided transfer funds to each manager and have allowed the players to earn ridiculous wages (the highest wage bill in the league). I agree the Glazers are out for profit but how can people explain the 8 successful years they had with Ferguson at the helm and then not so successful years after him? To me it shows just how exceptional Ferguson was as a manager in that he was able to make the team perform and still be a winning team under the Glazers where other managers have not.
Also a very important point to note out is that it was Malcom Glazer who bought the club. He was the brains of the business. He was a very experienced business man and it was during his tenure as owner of the club that saw them have their best years under the families ownership. His passing in 2014 in my opinion also contributed to the demise of United because the club moved into the hands of his children who were not considered to be very good business people.
Another important point to note is that of David Gill, an extremely experienced chief executive of the club who left at the same time as Ferguson. Gill started as finance director in 1997 and worked his way up to chief executive. One of his positions was that of Chief operation officer which mean he was responsible for the day to day running of the club. He left that position when he was promoted to chief executive of United.
So in reality, the clubs demise is a factor of 3 things, Ferguson retiring, the clubs very experienced CEO David Gill resigning and the death of the clubs owner, a very experienced business man. So you had 3 highly experienced men, all experts in their field to be replaced with very inexperienced people. With those 3 men going, the inexperience of those who replaced them has shown and their inexperience has led to the clubs downfall in my opinion.
We've done this earlier in the thread, and I agree; the problem isn't the Glazers, they are just a convenient scapegoat for the arrogant entitlement of Utd fans. Once again; football has moved on, Utd haven't. That's the long and short of it. Anything else is just excuses. Anyway it's boring to the rest of us. Football isn't just about Man Utd.
Both Sheffields rooted to the bottom of their respective tables. Not good for the city right now.
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Regulation win form 'Pool, totally overshadowed by the horrible situation with Luis Diaz's parents back in Colombia. I hope his father is found safe.
EDIT: though, the new-look midfield appears to be settling in well. Szobozslai and Mac Allister are looking increasingly comfortable, and working well with Liverpool's attacking line. Gravenberch and Endo are still finding their feet but their trajectories are positive so far. With Jones (returning soon) and Elliot being relied on more and more, I am beginning to see a transition from 'rebuild' to 'Klopp midfield 2.0' that looks like it could be successful.
...now, to be fair, Man Utd have also spent mountains of money since Fergie left, so this is one case where management (both in terms of overall club management and the more literal footballing management) has been a major factor in the differing fortunes of the clubs.
And of course, people decrying Man Utd's fall should remember that the 'standard' under Ferguson [like the standard under Shankly at Liverpool and the standard at Man City now under Guardiola/Sheik Mansour] was actually a qualitative high-water mark for the club...it's unreasonable to ever expect that standard again. The whole idea that Man Utd needs to 'get back' to that standard is not realistic. That doesn't mean the club won't see better years in the future...but taking your best-ever years and making that the baseline is, frankly, insane. Most fans understand that, but sometimes the media narrative (and some fan comments, not here but elsewhere) veers in that direction.
EDIT: though, the new-look midfield appears to be settling in well. Szobozslai and Mac Allister are looking increasingly comfortable, and working well with Liverpool's attacking line. Gravenberch and Endo are still finding their feet but their trajectories are positive so far. With Jones (returning soon) and Elliot being relied on more and more, I am beginning to see a transition from 'rebuild' to 'Klopp midfield 2.0' that looks like it could be successful.
It was funny to hear Guardiola talking after the match about how Man City's togetherness is a key to their success. I suppose it is - if you ignore all the billions pumped into the the squad....
...now, to be fair, Man Utd have also spent mountains of money since Fergie left, so this is one case where management (both in terms of overall club management and the more literal footballing management) has been a major factor in the differing fortunes of the clubs.
And of course, people decrying Man Utd's fall should remember that the 'standard' under Ferguson [like the standard under Shankly at Liverpool and the standard at Man City now under Guardiola/Sheik Mansour] was actually a qualitative high-water mark for the club...it's unreasonable to ever expect that standard again. The whole idea that Man Utd needs to 'get back' to that standard is not realistic. That doesn't mean the club won't see better years in the future...but taking your best-ever years and making that the baseline is, frankly, insane. Most fans understand that, but sometimes the media narrative (and some fan comments, not here but elsewhere) veers in that direction.
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The other thing people forget about the Fergie years is Liverpool were not good opposition. Arsenal were at times.
City were not a state owned and funded club.
In other words any club’s successful spell does depend somewhat on what the opposition is doing.
Yeah it's not a great time to be a fan of either team....
Both Sheffields rooted to the bottom of their respective tables. Not good for the city right now.
On top of that, for me, I just found out one of my Wednesday mates has cancer and isn't looking good for him.
I'm really surprised by the Blades fall. IMHO they are a much better run operation than us.
He's asking the fans to bail him out...
uk.news.yahoo.com
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri: Fans must ‘save club’ with £2m for HMRC and wages
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri has asked supporters who ‘call themselves owners’ to come up with £2m within the next few days to save the club from a multi-window transfer embargo - and admitted players and club staff might not be paid this month amid major cash flow issues.
The problem I have with owners doing this is that it does not change their behavior because they will do the same again and again and again, taking risks with money where there is no need to take risks. If the chairman was honest in his ways he would offer up club shares in exchange for money. In the linked news article he mentions about if 20,000 fans gave £100 each, that be the £2 million he needs to pay the bills. What he should be saying is that anyone that pays £100 will get x amount of club shares because a promise of doing something to those that help means nothing in the business world.He's asking the fans to bail him out...
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri: Fans must ‘save club’ with £2m for HMRC and wages
Sheffield Wednesday owner Dejphon Chansiri has asked supporters who ‘call themselves owners’ to come up with £2m within the next few days to save the club from a multi-window transfer embargo - and admitted players and club staff might not be paid this month amid major cash flow issues.
I am surprised no one has talked about the 'elephant in the room' which is Messi winning the Balon D'or again. Do you think he deserved it? I don't. The only thing of note he has achieved against his rivals was winning the 2022 World Cup. Yes he won the league with PSG but so did others win their respective leagues. Messi had a mediocre season with PSG whereas the person who I believe should have won it Erling Haaland was lighting up the Premier league with his number of goals and in the champions league with his number of goals. He scored way more goals than Messi, achieved way more than Messi in my opinion but in the year where there is a World Cup there was no way they was not going to give it to Messi. Haaland should have won it in my opinion. Do you agree or not?
Just want to say goodbye to this thread - can't see any reason to post about Women's Football here. There's no sincere interest or knowledge about it in this thread.
Neither have I any interest to inform or advocate for women's sport in general on this site.
I have other places where I share my interest of anything regarding sport, training and football - so I really don't have any time for this here. 🥳
I have done this journey long time ago when I played myself against the ignorance of Women's football, I'm not doing it again.
Neither have I any interest to inform or advocate for women's sport in general on this site.
I have other places where I share my interest of anything regarding sport, training and football - so I really don't have any time for this here. 🥳
I have done this journey long time ago when I played myself against the ignorance of Women's football, I'm not doing it again.
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Well dang.
I read your posts. It'd be a shame to lose you. I simply don't follow enough to be knowledgeable to comment.
This is a real shame, and this thread will be a poorer one without your contributions. I guess I'd expect a bit of a lull in discussion of the women's game after the conclusion of the World Cup. Education and building interest is a long term project.
I do keep an eye on the Man Utd women's team and watch their matches when I can. They're still kind of a stepping stone club, and they just got dumped out of the Champions League after a tough draw against PSG. Maybe more Utd fans will turn to them in pursuit of a more watchable team that had more of a chance of achieving glory than the men's first team does at present.
I watch the women's game (London clubs and England) whenever i can. Still not sure if Alisha Lehmann is more footballer or celebrity.
Saying that, the truth is my main focus is largely still the men's game.
I can appreciate where you're coming from...the thread will miss your input.
Never really been about pure merit. Which is why Messi was always going to win. At least now there'll be room for others seeing as he's left european football and is unlikely to win another WC.
Agree with @Silencio and @Don Quixote and @daneoni when they say that it would be a real shame if you were to depart from the thread.
Personally, I love the idea of women's football, - above all, I love how it is much more respected and supported now, which is superb in itself, but also as a future role model, the old "what you don't see, you can't be" - but don't know enough to be able to comment intelligently on it.
However, I am delighted at the success of the Lionesses, at the exposure (and quality) of the women's World Cup, and cheer to the successes of the Arsenal Women's team, who have been consistently excellent for a number of years.
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Australia pulled out of the race to host the 2034 World Cup. So looks like we will be off to Saudi Arabia.
I do hope the big brown envelopes full of cash were worth it. Such a ridicules criteria for determining who can host the tournament.
I do hope the big brown envelopes full of cash were worth it. Such a ridicules criteria for determining who can host the tournament.
Yes, it leaves a very bad, foul, taste in one's mouth, doesn't it?
Indeed. Thing is it’s so obvious at the last WC and now it’s just happening again. Utterly disgraceful.