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Abdichoudxyz

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Arsenal have a right to feel aggrieved for that one. Yet another total failure of the VAR officials. It's a foul on the defender, regardless of the ball possibly being out of play in the build up. Hopefully future tech will allow for instant decisions to be made regarding that issue. But yeah; Saudi FC got away with one there. They didn't deserve the win. If the final league table is skewed as a result of these failures, then there's going to be hell to pay. A referee making a mistake in the heat of the moment is one thing; fine, we can accept that. But when you have technology and teams of people working to eliminate such errors, and that fails, well, someone needs to be answerable. It's unacceptable.

I did say it would be a spicy one though, didn't I? And I also said City would steamroller Bournemouth. 😐 I didn't expect Bournemouth to score though. 🤯
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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Just catching up on the football as I missed MOTD last night.
Regarding the Arsenal game, it just looked like Newcastle wanted it more.
Arteta’s rant about the goal was a bug misplaced.
They should have been down to 10 men in the first half. Havetz foul was late and deliberate. He should have walked.

As for the goal I’ve seen them given or not given. But it’s not a clear 100% incorrect decision. Yes you’d feel unlucky if it went against you. But that’s football.
 
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Abdichoudxyz

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Anyway, our first defeat in the Premier League this season.

My sense is that Arsenal are nowhere nearly as settled, or as comfortable in themselves, nor as confident, as they were last season.

We miss the heft and strength of Granit Xhaka, although Declan Rice was a superb buy.

And Kai Havertz is - to me, at least, - an inexplicable signing; I don't know what exactly it is that he is supposed to do on the football pitch, - he is not a forward, not a finisher, not a dribbler, doesn't hold the ball (as a midfield player), and doesn't - and refers not to - control or direct games (from midfield); one recent entry in one of the Arsenal blogs acidly remarked that Havertz "looked like more awkward foal than goal threat".

Moreover, I'm not comfortable with Raya (yes, he can play with the ball at his feet, but passing and faffing around in your own area invites the pressing attention of opponents, and gives you a lot less time to react to errors), still less as a replacement for Ramsdale, who was excellent for almost all of last season, but who seems to have been identified by Mikel Arteta as a weak link.

More to the point, the team are not yet completely comfortable with this system, and I get the sense that Mikel Arteta is still experimenting with and tweaking what he thinks might work.

Unlike last season, the team has yet to settle, (and yes, I understand that in the modern world - cup competitions and European competitions, one may need to rotate a team and rest players) as a unit - I get a sense of nervous skittishness from the team, unlike last season's sense of the team gelling as a unit.

Yes, we have injuries (Timber - on his first game, and he will be out for the entire season, Thomas Partey, ESR, and Zinchenko among others), while Odegaard seems fatigued, and Saka - who is heroic - is consistently fouled (some very ugly stuff today) on a weekly basis and receives little by way of protection.

Of the injured players, Thomas Partey - who is excellent, actually superb, when both fit and available - increasingly, unfortunately, is neither.

I've seen stats for his injuries - one blog observed that "he’s being held together with bits of string and duct tape" - and he has missed over 50 games through injury since he joined the club, and has started once since last May in midfield.

Emile Smith Rowe is another player whom I would have liekd to have seen more of, but, having just clawed his way back into contention, has, unfortunately, fallen to yet another injury.

Eddie Nketiah is a good optional extra as someone who can score, is especially good against bottom teams (last week's hat-trick), but cannot be relied upon to put away chances against serious teams - is a poor finisher - and is extraordinarily inconsistent.

However, at this stage, I think that there are some deeper issues, some of which lie with the manager, (and I am not a person who wants to wield pitchforks at managers, and, moreover, Arsenal tends to have a tradition of retaining managers for quite some time).

Mikel Arteta seems to have a couple of blind spots: One is that once a player is consigned to Arctic regions, cast out of the team, (Ramsdale is only the most recent example of this process, or tendency), it is very diffiuclt for that player to plot a way back.

Secondly, there have been some - a sequence - of brutally bad (and strangely expensive) purchases, which suggests a lack of due diligence, strange scouting, or a weird myopia: Pepe, David Luis, - and now, I suspect that Kai Havertz may fall into this category - players who were never a good fit for Arsenal, and never even had the promise that they might work out - all come to mind.

Worse, Arteta seems prone to the very human problem of not wishing to admit to errors, or mistakes; while some players are consigned to an internal Arctic exile, others are defended - and comtinue to be defended - beyond what their performances merit, (Raya and Havertz are two recent examples).

In other words, Mikel Arteta has favourites: Players who are "in" (sometimes improbably), and players who are "out", and he seems to find it diffiuclt to move the dial from wither setting, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

And thirdly: I do wonder whether Arteta's insistence on his interpretation of pressing (in faithful homage to his mentor, Pep Guardiola), - both in his legendarily tough training sessions, and during the actual games - is contributing to the injuries - not just the fact of the injuries, but the types, and frequency of injuries suffered by players on the team, and the fact that some of the players, ominously early in the season, are already suffering from something akin to bun out.

Anyway, at this stage, (unlike last season, when the team was a more settled unit), I think that we will not be challenging seriously for the Premier League title, and, in fact, I would argue that - on current form - (not just two defeats in a row, but the nature of those defeats, for all of our possession, we never seriously looked like scoring tonight) we will be doing well to secure qualification for the Champions League by claiming fourth position in the Premier League.
Blimey; one (unlucky) defeat, and there's an inquest! 🤣

Don't get all 'Man U Fan' about it, get behind your team and keep cheering them on. Saudi FC got lucky, is all. It happens; look at Spurs! Truth is Arsenal are still some way (and a good few million quid) away from being a top team; Arteta has surprised many, including myself, with how good he actually is. And he's still pretty new to management. But the football Arsenal are playing is somewhat better than Saudi FC, and Arteta is a better manager than Eddie Howe, who's teams have to resort to negative, bullying tactics because he doesn't have the ideas to win at top level. Arsenal are in a better place right now than they have been for years, since the Wenger heydays. You might not win the Pl title this year, or the CL, but they're definitely on a good trajectory, and a force to be reckoned with. And have tons more class than Saudi FC; a perpetually mediocre club supported by deluded followers, and now hypocritically enjoying better results purely as a result of dodgy investment. So whilst Sunday's result might sting a bit, relax safe in the knowledge that at least Arsenal have some prestige. And have won a few trophies in the last seventy years...
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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Sod off
The Newcastle goal is another example of why VAR is problematic. Three potential issues to check - did the ball go out, was Gabriel fouled, was Gordon offside?

The most honest answers you can give with the available camera angles are no, debatable, unsure.

So VAR burned three to four minutes to make a call that is still completely legitimately debatable. A pre-VAR on-field decision would have been neither more nor less controversial than this.

A tech bro will say this can be solved with more cameras. But it can’t. No amount of cameras can guarantee errorless refereeing. The only thing VAR guarantees is breaks in play while refs stare at screens.

I see Mikel is blaming everyone but himself in his post match interview lol.
Arteta was very philosophical about VAR after Liverpool got robbed against spurs, correctly pointing out that mistakes happens sometimes and we have to accept that reality. His thoughts on VAR are…very different…this week. A change that has not gone unnoticed by ‘Pool supporters.🤣
 
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Scepticalscribe

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Blimey; one (unlucky) defeat, and there's an inquest! 🤣
Not quite.

I have been mulling over this - thinking about this - for the past few weeks, and have been debating (with myself) whether to post a few thoughts for the past two to three weeks.


Don't get all 'Man U Fan' about it, get behind your team and keep cheering them on. Saudi FC got lucky, is all. It happens; look at Spurs! Truth is Arsenal are still some way (and a good few million quid) away from being a top team; Arteta has surprised many, including myself, with how good he actually is. And he's still pretty new to management. But the football Arsenal are playing is somewhat better than Saudi FC, and Arteta is a better manager than Eddie Howe, who's teams have to resort to negative, bullying tactics because he doesn't have the ideas to win at top level. Arsenal are in a better place right now than they have been for years, since the Wenger heydays. You might not win the Pl title this year, or the CL, but they're definitely on a good trajectory, and a force to be reckoned with. And have tons more class than Saudi FC; a perpetually mediocre club supported by deluded followers, and now hypocritically enjoying better results purely as a result of dodgy investment. So whilst Sunday's result might sting a bit, relax safe in the knowledge that at least Arsenal have some prestige. And have won a few trophies in the last seventy years...
Fair comment.

However, oddly enough, it is not so much yesterday's defeat that stings (and it stings less than it should; I'm not so sure that we deserved to win - a point would have been a 'fairer' result), but rather, concerns about the team this season, and some stuff I hadn't noticed - or paid heed to - until now, as I was determined to give Mikel Arteta the benefit of the doubt.
 

SteveManila1960

macrumors 6502
Aug 8, 2019
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Waiting for Monday evening and the return of 'Poch'. I am sure he will get a rousing welcome from the home fans.

Will we go top again? I don't know but I am realistic. I read in the newspaper a 'super computer' did hundreds of thousands of predictions for the end of this season and had Spurs finishing 5th.

I can go with that as much as I don't like it. Look at Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Newcastle. Then don't forget Aston Villa and Brighton. Even Man Utd and Chelsea might start to fire on all cylinders soon.

Man it's a tough league more challenging than ever before I think. I am thinking Spurs will be lucky to finish 5th actually.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Arteta’s rant about the goal was a bug misplaced.
Agreed.

An intemperate over-reaction.
They should have been down to 10 men in the first half. Havetz foul was late and deliberate. He should have walked.

Agreed.

However, Guimaraes also should have walked; a choice of a red or two yellows.
As for the goal I’ve seen them given or not given. But it’s not a clear 100% incorrect decision. Yes you’d feel unlucky if it went against you. But that’s football.
Candidly, I am not as bothered by that as I am about other issues.
 

SteveManila1960

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Aug 8, 2019
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What happened before VAR? Referres made mistakes because they are human and we all huffed and puffed and moved on.

I would remove VAR altogether for the next two years and separately review how the technology could help the sport and how people can be trained to use it.

It's not a bad thing, just introduced too early with too little thought put into how it would work in practise.
 

Scepticalscribe

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Arteta was very philosophical about VAR after Liverpool got robbed against spurs, correctly pointing out that mistakes happens sometimes and we have to accept that reality. His thoughts on VAR are…very different…this week. A change that has not gone unnoticed by ‘Pool supporters.🤣
Fair comment, but I would add to that a defensiveness in that Mikel Arteta may be unwilling to admit that some of his own changes - team selections - (and tactics) may have also contributed to this defeat.
 

Lord Blackadder

macrumors P6
May 7, 2004
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Fair comment, but I would add to that a defensiveness in that Mikel Arteta may be unwilling to admit that some of his own changes - team selections - (and tactics) may have also contributed to this defeat.
I just found it amusing because during the Spurs debacle I felt both sentiments - yes, mistakes happen and we have to accept that … but also VAR feels like an omnishambles and as a supporter it is an enraging experience.
 
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Abdichoudxyz

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Good win for Forest, that. They need to get themselves clear of the relegation zone, although it's highly likley the bottom three and Bournemouth will be faves to go down. Luton V Liverpool up next; obvs I'm hoping for an away win, but you never know in football.... 😬
 

SteveManila1960

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Aug 8, 2019
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In the last six games Man City have won four and lost two. In the last six games Spurs have won five and drawn one.

Yet still we sit only second in the league having gained sixteen points from the last six games against City's twelve.

Man this league is tough!
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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In the last six games Man City have won four and lost two. In the last six games Spurs have won five and drawn one.

Yet still we sit only second in the league having gained sixteen points from the last six games against City's twelve.

Man this league is tough!
That’s because it’s the best league in the world. To win it you need to be almost perfect.
 

SteveManila1960

macrumors 6502
Aug 8, 2019
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You are right of course we may as well give Man City the title now they are as close to perfect as you can get.

They rotated the squad again yesterday and scored six. A strength in depth all other coaches dream about.
 

SteveManila1960

macrumors 6502
Aug 8, 2019
323
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Anyone following Wrexham? I really like Ryan Reynolds, most of his films and how he comes across on talk shows. He also seems really dialled in to football and making Wrexham be the best they can be.
 

Alphazoid

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Dec 5, 2014
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Re- VAR. The issue is consistency. You can't pick and choose. Even i'm not sure what the rules are anymore.

Man Utd's Rashford goal against Brighton was ruled out because the ball was 'conclusively' over the line even though it was straddling it.

F-HKfeFXAAAhkJ0.jpeg

Fast forward to yesterday, and Willock's ball which is further out is not conclusive.

F-HKfeGWkAAhh2F.jpeg

Then the foul on Gabriel which lets face it anywhere else on the pitch its a foul. 2 arms to the back, feet off the ground. Heck last week Rodri was given a penalty for Hojlund's one arm contact.

erro.jpg

Then the Gordon offside which was apparently too close for lines to be drawn. Fair enough give the attacker the benefit. But the previous 2 pts should be enough to disallow the goal.

They spend FOUR MINUTES and end up with the on-field decision. What. Is. The. Point.

Havertz should be off, as should Guimares who came to play rugby apparently.

Re-Arteta supporting or not supporting Klopp. As Mourinho once said, if you speak you're in trouble. So in effect you can only be vocal when you've been directly affected...otherwise you'll be accused of slander. Bet you a million none of the managers will say anything this week. This also why Refs feel they're invincible.

I wager Arteta got triggered by memories of the Brentford goal which Lee Mason allowed to stand. Arsenal were what 5 pts behind City last season? If Brenford goal is disallowed thats 2 pts closer for them. I know thats speculation but i'm just taking a guess at the psychology behind Arteta's reaction

People saying Arsenal were poor. True. But i watched the game, and they did enough to earn a point. Newcastle weren't exactly sublime either. Newcastle never looked like scoring (neither did Arsenal)

The media are now saying Havertz and Raya are the issue and Arteta should stop moaning. Funny enough i think Havertz was one of the better players on the pitch.

Fergie moaned all the time, bullied referees, and rival managers and no one bat an eyelid because "he's a winner"

Make it make sense

Referees are simply no longer fit for purpose in this country. The excuse was lack of technology and "they're only human". Tech has come in now and they're even worse. An old boys club if Mike Dean is anything to go by.

Rugby, Tennis, Cricket all put the so-called best league in the world to shame.
 
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