The Aircraft Thread!

[a2jack]

We moved to Michigan and rented a little house on a lake. One day we looked out our window and there was our unmet neighbor flying a Styrofoam toy glider off the hill...Hello we said, and it went from there. LOL

We were all way too poor to own a real flying airplane, but we found an ad for a disassembled 1941 Taylorcraft out in Sparta, NJ. For $750.

Our Neighbor, (Lou) was a very skilled construction guy. I was an electronics type, wife was in nursing school. "What can be so hard about putting an old airplane back together" we said. " We can learn this stuff, we all agreed.

So we built a big old wooden rack for Joe's pickup and set off for NJ.

Our first flying airplane was a Stinson Flying Station Wagon, Like this. Pix

 

[a2jack]

We moved to Michigan and rented a little house on a lake. One day we looked out our window and there was our unmet neighbor flying a Styrofoam toy glider off the hill...Hello we said, and it went from there. LOL

We were all way too poor to own a real flying airplane, but we found an ad for a disassembled 1941 Taylorcraft out in Sparta, NJ. For $750.

Our Neighbor, (Lou) was a very skilled construction guy. I was an electronics type, wife was in nursing school. "What can be so hard about putting an old airplane back together" we said. " We can learn this stuff, we all agreed.

So we built a big old wooden rack for Joe's pickup and set off for NJ.

Our first flying airplane was a Stinson Flying Station Wagon, Like this. Pix
View attachment 815939 View attachment 815939

We moved to Michigan and rented a little house on a lake. One day we looked out our window and there was our unmet neighbor flying a Styrofoam toy glider off the hill...Hello we said, and it went from there. LOL

We were all way too poor to own a real flying airplane, but we found an ad for a disassembled 1941 Taylorcraft out in Sparta, NJ. For $750.

Our Neighbor, (Lou) was a very skilled construction guy. I was an electronics type, wife was in nursing school. "What can be so hard about putting an old airplane back together" we said. " We can learn this stuff, we all agreed.

So we built a big old wooden rack for Joe's pickup and set off for NJ.

Our first flying airplane was a Stinson Flying Station Wagon, Like this. Pix
View attachment 815939 View attachment 815939

[doublepost=1547831097][/doublepost]Arrived in NJ at two Am, as we were delayed with brake problems on Joe's ancient truck. We didn't wake anyone, but since the light was on in the owners shop, we just peaked thru the window... and there it was...Our Airplane.

It looked great, setting on the gear and it seemed all we had to do was put the wings back on. "Piece of Cake" LOL.
Next morning we knocked on owners door saw our airplane for 1st time. Alas, it was not the one we saw thru the window. Ours was up in the loft...In boxes and mason jars, it had been in storage for years. We load, and head back to Michigan.

 

[a2jack]

Most infamous P-51 of them all.

 

[a2jack]

3 of us and instructor on board the Stinson, we take off out over the tree tops and the old Franklin engine backfires and starts to shake like a wet dog. We get it down, and back in the hanger, but Instructor quits, and our airplane is broke. We Press on. LOL

We buy a beat up 1940 Aeronca, Trainer/Defender, cheap, we all solo, but must now rent to do the electronic stuff, and get our tickets. PIX: our "Airshow" car and the Aeronca. More ?

 

[a2jack]

3 of us and instructor on board the Stinson, we take off out over the tree tops and the old Franklin engine backfires and starts to shake like a wet dog. We get it down, and back in the hanger, but Instructor quits, and our airplane is broke. We Press on. LOL

We buy a beat up 1940 Aeronca, Trainer/Defender, cheap, we all solo, but must now rent to do the electronic stuff, and get our tickets. PIX: our "Airshow" car and the View attachment 816888 Aeronca. More ?

There are flying adventures on each of our airplanes. We eventually owned, and flew 7 different types, all were old taildragers, but only one a Cessina 150 had radios and nav.

We were now finding old airplanes everywhere, one a Beach 18 was even offered FREE. LOL.
Strangely, although the airplanes were dirt cheap here in Michigan, their value was rising fast elsewhere.
So ,we were making out each time we sold one. Three we know of are still flying today on the west coast.

So here was our wish list. #1 Beach Staggerwing. the most beautiful biplane ever built. A2

 

[a2jack]

Sometimes we bought an old airplane just to save it.

This is a 1946 Fairchild. the Warner engine is missing but the wings and tail feathers were all stored inside. It had full Logs and paperwork and a clean title. I believe we paid $200 for it and passed it on to a restorer in the EAA.

We were now active members of the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and into antiques. LOL

Disclaimer. Pix of flying Fairchild 46 is not the same airplane we saved.

 

[Huntn]

Sometimes we bought an old airplane just to save it.

This is a 1946 Fairchild. the Warner engine is missing but the wings and tail feathers were all stored inside. It had full Logs and paperwork and a clean title. I believe we paid $200 for it and passed it on to a restorer in the EAA.

We were now active members of the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and into antiques. LOL

Disclaimer. Pix of flying Fairchild 46 is not the same airplane we saved.

My Dad is a long time member of the EAA, he has built 5 RVs, various models. When you say you passed it on, do you mean you payed him to restore it, or gifted it to him?
[doublepost=1548872496][/doublepost]

View attachment 817047

There are flying adventures on each of our airplanes. We eventually owned, and flew 7 different types, all were old taildragers, but only one a Cessina 150 had radios and nav.

We were now finding old airplanes everywhere, one a Beach 18 was even offered FREE. LOL.
Strangely, although the airplanes were dirt cheap here in Michigan, their value was rising fast elsewhere.
So ,we were making out each time we sold one. Three we know of are still flying today on the west coast.

So here was our wish list. #1 Beach Staggerwing. the most beautiful biplane ever built. A2

Pretty aircraft!

 

[a2jack]

Huntn. On the Fairchild, we just got our $200 back and moved it free, but I never wrote down the N number, and lost track of it.

The Beach Stagger Wing was a true "Art Deco" machine right out of the 30's, and one day we got the call. 9K, out of annual, come and get it.

It was rough, and the fabric would not pass inspection. Engine was OK, but high time. We figured if we sold everything we could barely swing it, So we had to pass. We never saw another.

Any old Pix on your dad's EAA stuff ?

 

[Glideslope]

Sometimes we bought an old airplane just to save it.

This is a 1946 Fairchild. the Warner engine is missing but the wings and tail feathers were all stored inside. It had full Logs and paperwork and a clean title. I believe we paid $200 for it and passed it on to a restorer in the EAA.

We were now active members of the EAA (Experimental Aircraft Association) and into antiques. LOL

Disclaimer. Pix of flying Fairchild 46 is not the same airplane we saved.

Great series of posts. It’s wonderful to see such dedication toward aviation and the EAA. Isn’t it surreal to do something that you love so much?

 

[a2jack]

GS. Thank you for chiming in here. Yes it was surreal.

The first flying airplane we owned, the Stinson, was that little boys dreams come true. I went back out the night we got him, "Charley" we called him, and just sat and looked. We actually owned a real flying machine. We could touch the clouds.

Other fine old airplanes entered our lives than faded away. Some met up with fate, as Ermest Gann wrote about in his great books on flying. This old girl, N78B had her left engine held for ransom as the company that owned her went out of business.

We thought deep, talked, and pretended we could buy her, and learn to fly a DC-3. LOL, As it turned out it was sold for very little money - to an acquaintance of ours. He started flying her out of his small airport and the neighbors had a fit. The last we heard she was at Willow Run airport flying car parts.

In writing this I researched N-78B. The Fates intervened and she crashed, down in Venezuela, smuggling they said. a2

 

[a2jack]

More airplanes come our way. Here's a 1947 Aircoupe that we bought and returned to the seller as the engine logs showed a "Top" overhaul not the "Major" as he had represented. We loved the airplane but he (a small FBO) would not discount, and we had payed him top dollar. All went OK.

Some of those old Aircoupes would really get out.

 

[a2jack]

Post deleted A2

 

[a2jack]

BearCats in Wisconsin

.

 

[Huntn]

What’s it doing now? This case appears to involve automated flight systems designed to keep the plane flying, errors in angle of attack, runaway trim, and possibly erroneous automated control input. Interesting article:

What's wrong with the Boeing 737 Max? Here's everything we know
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/boeing-737-max-8-crash-problems

It may be this introduction of greater automation to its flights that has contributed to the crashes, says Steve Wright, an associate professor in aerospace engineering at UWE who previously worked at Airbus. Wright says that historically Boeing had always leaned towards a more traditional “hands on the stick” approach for their pilots. “There was a fundamental shift between the 1970s and 80s, from being a pilot whose driving the plane, to the pilot becoming less and less of a pilot and more and more of a systems engineer, overseeing things and understanding which buttons to press and stepping in when something goes wrong.”
—————————
This issue, over the relationship between pilot and aircraft autonomy, is similar to recent debates over autonomous cars.People have been arguing about it for over 40 years, says Wright. " It's a philosophical issue, a human interface issue, and a human nature issue, about what sort of aeroplane we expect in future, and how much do we decouple the pilot from the aeroplane and how much we keep the pilot on their toes.”

A historical parallel can be drawn with the Air France flight 447 crash in 2009, which involved an Airbus 330. In this case, the problem between the pilot and the automated system was almost the exact opposite: rather than the automated system overriding the pilot, it shut off unexpectedly, and the pilots were too inexperienced to fly the plane manually at that altitude.

 

[cube]

A historical parallel can be drawn with the Air France flight 447 crash in 2009, which involved an Airbus 330. In this case, the problem between the pilot and the automated system was almost the exact opposite: rather than the automated system overriding the pilot, it shut off unexpectedly, and the pilots were too inexperienced to fly the plane manually at that altitude.

One unacceptable pilot + poor CRM.

 

[a2jack]

What’s it doing now? This case appears to involve automated flight systems designed to keep the plane flying, errors in angle of attack, runaway trim, and possibly erroneous automated control input. Interesting article:

What's wrong with the Boeing 737 Max? Here's everything we know
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/boeing-737-max-8-crash-problems

It may be this introduction of greater automation to its flights that has contributed to the crashes, says Steve Wright, an associate professor in aerospace engineering at UWE who previously worked at Airbus. Wright says that historically Boeing had always leaned towards a more traditional “hands on the stick” approach for their pilots. “There was a fundamental shift between the 1970s and 80s, from being a pilot whose driving the plane, to the pilot becoming less and less of a pilot and more and more of a systems engineer, overseeing things and understanding which buttons to press and stepping in when something goes wrong.”
—————————
This issue, over the relationship between pilot and aircraft autonomy, is similar to recent debates over autonomous cars.People have been arguing about it for over 40 years, says Wright. " It's a philosophical issue, a human interface issue, and a human nature issue, about what sort of aeroplane we expect in future, and how much do we decouple the pilot from the aeroplane and how much we keep the pilot on their toes.”

A historical parallel can be drawn with the Air France flight 447 crash in 2009, which involved an Airbus 330. In this case, the problem between the pilot and the automated system was almost the exact opposite: rather than the automated system overriding the pilot, it shut off unexpectedly, and the pilots were too inexperienced to fly the plane manually at that altitude.

This loss of life is so tragic it makes me want to cry in despair.

We had two 737 max, the Prime 767, and even an old DC-3 down last month in Cleveland, Ohio, with loss of crew.

What is happening here ?

Yesterday, the NY Times ran an article showing the FAA certification program fully integrated with Boeing, and Boeing corp directly molding FAA standards .

I guess the old "It's Not If - It's When", rule is is beginning to apply beyond Farm Flying today.

May Passengers and crews RIP. a2

 

[Huntn]

One unacceptable pilot + poor CRM.

Which accident are you referring too?

If I can believe the union pilot representative from American Airlines who made a public statement, they said there were unusual incidents related to these crashes that had been reported by other pilots, that there were changes in the software, and that Boeing knew there were issues, but did not forward any heads up to the airlines, nor address it in the aircraft manuals.

 

[cube]

Which accident are you referring too?

The only one I quoted: AF447.

 

[Glideslope]

Which accident are you referring too?

If I can believe the union pilot representative from American Airlines who made a public statement, they said there were unusual incidents related to these crashes that had been reported by other pilots, that there were changes in the software, and that Boeing knew there were issues, but did not forward any heads up to the airlines, nor address it in the aircraft manuals.

Boeing screwed the pooch on the Max. They will be lucky to have it back in the air in 6m. The minimal training of an additional 3 hrs to go from an NG to a Max was criminally negligent on their part, IMO. There is more to this than simply MCAS. After the complete ADS-B data was complied from Aireon the similarities could not be deflected from Lion Air. I have a strong suspicion that the “new evidence” found at the impact site was the stab trim switches were in the off position. It’s going to come out that numerous issues with flight stability were discovered during the Max certification. It’s criminal that the FAA allowed Boeing to “self certify” over 60% of the program.

Regardless, a terrible tragedy. The 777 was the last airframe built by Boeing as “A Team.” I have lost all respect for the current executive team.

 

[Huntn]

The only one I quoted: AF447.

That had to do with a faulty pitot static system, which were all changed out after that accident. Yes, you can blame the pilot, but I’ll knock on wood. It was not an automation problem per set. I’m not sure why would describe it as one unacceptable pilot because pitot systems are not designed to ice over and I have no idea what kind of training he received regarding this possibility.

More importantly, how do you think this relates to these latest crashes?
[doublepost=1552672321][/doublepost]

Boeing screwed the pooch on the Max. They will be lucky to have it back in the air in 6m. The minimal training of an additional 3 hrs to go from an NG to a Max was criminally negligent on their part, IMO. There is more to this than simply MCAS. After the complete ADS-B data was complied from Aireon the similarities could not be deflected from Lion Air. I have a strong suspicion that the “new evidence” found at the impact site was the stab trim switches were in the off position. It’s going to come out that numerous issues with flight stability were discovered during the Max certification. It’s criminal that the FAA allowed Boeing to “self certify” over 60% of the program.

Regardless, a terrible tragedy. The 777 was the last airframe built by Boeing as “A Team.” I have lost all respect for the current executive team.

It sounds alarming and negligent. I can imagine how the ball gets rolling up against deadlines, but the issue is psychological, possibly contracts at stake and consequently rationalizing the known issues as no big deal. And I find it suspecisious that no mention of these issues were made in advance, with the thought process of better not to fess up to the problems, but fix them quietly or gee, if a plane crashes, this would be worse than missing a contract date.

 

[cube]

That had to do with a faulty pitot static system, which were all changed out after that accident. Yes, you can blame the pilot, but I’ll knock on wood. It was not an automation problem per set. I’m not sure why would describe it as one unacceptable pilot because pitot systems are not designed to ice over and I have no idea what kind of training he received regarding this possibility.

Pitots can fail. There's a procedure to follow at altitude.

What was unacceptable was the way the junior pilot handled stall warnings and that he continued commanding the plane even after the middle officer took over.

 

[Glideslope]

It sounds alarming and negligent. I can imagine how the ball gets rolling up against deadlines, but the issue is psychological, possibly contracts at stake and consequently rationalizing the known issues as no big deal. And I find it suspecisious that no mention of these issues were made in advance, with the thought process of better not to fess up to the problems, but fix them quietly or gee, if a plane crashes, this would be worse than missing a contract date.

Welcome to the end result of the beginnings of Deregulation. Boeing was never the same after Phil and Alan left. There was a massive shift in philosophy within the culture. The Max was rushed to market due to Boeing wasting R&D resources on the 748. The entire 748 project was nothing other than to kill the 380 Freighter variant. The 380 would never succeed without it. I’m not saying huge miscalculations with the VLA market were not a contributing factor. The FAA is so intrenched in Politics I can only imaging the struggles the NTSB will have with them. It’s a very dire point in commercial aviation in the US. The delay in grounding the Max only reinforces the global impression that the US can no longer be trusted to fairly anylise the data. Just look at the attempts made by ET to have the recorders read by any country other than the US.

I’m just furious with how this is playing out. It’s clearly obvious that Boeing withheld information as to how diffently the Max is from the NG to intice orders. Especially the unstable CG position from the engine placements.

Then you have the Air Force suspending deliveries of their new KC-46’s due to finding the first delivered frames filled with trash, and power tools left in compartments from assembly.

I’m just WTF Boeing.

 

[Huntn]

Welcome to the end result of the beginnings of Deregulation. Boeing was never the same after Phil and Alan left. There was a massive shift in philosophy within the culture. The Max was rushed to market due to Boeing wasting R&D resources on the 748. The entire 748 project was nothing other than to kill the 380 Freighter variant. The 380 would never succeed without it. I’m not saying huge miscalculations with the VLA market were not a contributing factor. The FAA is so intrenched in Politics I can only imaging the struggles the NTSB will have with them. It’s a very dire point in commercial aviation in the US. The delay in grounding the Max only reinforces the global impression that the US can no longer be trusted to fairly anylise the data. Just look at the attempts made by ET to have the recorders read by any country other than the US.

I’m just furious with how this is playing out. It’s clearly obvious that Boeing withheld information as to how diffently the Max is from the NG to intice orders. Especially the unstable CG position from the engine placements.

Then you have the Air Force suspending deliveries of their new KC-46’s due to finding the first delivered frames filled with trash, and power tools left in compartments from assembly.

I’m just WTF Boeing.

Do you have a background in professional aviation or are an aviation enthusiast? I am a retired Delta pilot and since retiring, I’m not nearly as in touch with aviation issues as I used to be.

 

[Mike B in ok]

I just discovered this thread. I’m not a pilot, but a lifelong air and space buff, plus amateur photographer. Some may enjoy these photos I took at an air show a couple of years ago.

We have a Vampire jet from the Royal Air Force in the 1940s(!). Hard to believe this is a jet built partly of plywood! The other is a P40N, which will be familiar to many, though this is a later version than the ones that became famous.

 

[Huntn]

Pitots can fail. There's a procedure to follow at altitude.

What was unacceptable was the way the junior pilot handled stall warnings and that he continued commanding the plane even after the middle officer took over.

I’m not making excuses for that crash. 99% of that situation is realizing what is going on with the aircraft. NWA lost a 727 back in the 70s(?) before the days when pitot heat had a light on the switch, (their pitot heat was off or failed off) but it had no passengers on it. My memory may be faulty, as I recalll, it was mentioned during training at Northwest Airlines, but we never trained for it. It was mostly a matter of recognition.
[doublepost=1552684312][/doublepost]

View attachment 826547 View attachment 826548 I just discovered this thread. I’m not a pilot, but a lifelong air and space buff, plus amateur photographer. Some may enjoy these photos I took at an air show a couple of years ago.

We have a Vampire jet from the Royal Air Force in the 1940s(!). Hard to believe this is a jet built partly of plywood! The other is a P40N, which will be familiar to many, though this is a later version than the ones that became famous.

Pretty classic airplane!