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Glideslope

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2007
8,324
5,787
The Adirondacks.
Graduated from Colorado Springs in 79. Did my ENJJPT+SUPT AT Vance 79-80 with the 25th. Was overseas with the 51st until 84. Was with the 20th OG/55th FS at SW 84-93.

Had an unusual medical mid 92. Detached the retina in my (L) eye. Was able to reattach it, but that was it. No waiver for a one eyed bandit. Had 13 years in. Requested a separation waiver which was granted. Left for a consulting career in Aviation Risk Management with the Silverstone Group. Retired from that full time in 2016. Still consult a bit part time, however this will end mid 2019.

Live in NY these days in the woods upstate with my wife of 40 years. Spend the majority of my time chopping wood, and fishing off my dock.

But, yea, every time an aircraft flys over I look up, try to ID it, and estimate it’s altitude and ground speed.;)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,994
27,080
The Misty Mountains
Graduated from Colorado Springs in 79. Did my ENJJPT+SUPT AT Vance 79-80 with the 25th. Was overseas with the 51st until 84. Was with the 20th OG/55th FS at SW 84-93.

Had an unusual medical mid 92. Detached the retina in my (L) eye. Was able to reattach it, but that was it. No waiver for a one eyed bandit. Had 13 years in. Requested a separation waiver which was granted. Left for a consulting career in Aviation Risk Management with the Silverstone Group. Retired from that full time in 2016. Still consult a bit part time, however this will end mid 2019.

Live in NY these days in the woods upstate with my wife of 40 years. Spend the majority of my time chopping wood, and fishing off my dock.

But, yea, every time an aircraft flys over I look up, try to ID it, and estimate it’s altitude and ground speed.;)
Graduated from Syracuse Class of 75. Loved Up State New York. :)
 

Glideslope

macrumors G3
Dec 7, 2007
8,324
5,787
The Adirondacks.
Graduated from Syracuse Class of 75. Loved Up State New York. :)

I'm about 2.5 hrs NE of Syracuse. My father did his EDD Graduate work at SU. Had a crazy career. Undergraduate at the University of Buffalo. Decided he wanted to be a Civil Engineer and joined the Army Corps of Engineers with the Savannah District at Ft. Bragg NC ( I was born there.) Out after four years. Decided he wanted to go into Special Education and we moved to Syracuse.

However, we are closer to Saratoga Springs now, and our children have settled in Boston so we rarely head west any longer other than flying out to Long Beach, CA every summer to see my brother.

I share your love of Upstate, NY though. Was always going to be our retirement home. ;)
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,994
27,080
The Misty Mountains
I'm about 2.5 hrs NE of Syracuse. My father did his EDD Graduate work at SU. Had a crazy career. Undergraduate at the University of Buffalo. Decided he wanted to be a Civil Engineer and joined the Army Corps of Engineers with the Savannah District at Ft. Bragg NC ( I was born there.) Out after four years. Decided he wanted to go into Special Education and we moved to Syracuse.

However, we are closer to Saratoga Springs now, and our children have settled in Boston so we rarely head west any longer other than flying out to Long Beach, CA every summer to see my brother.

I share your love of Upstate, NY though. Was always going to be our retirement home. ;)
I grew up in DC/Maryland. After 5 semesters at University of Miami said enough of that, and switched to Syracuse. The Fall Senester would start and we could hardly wait for the snow and skiing. There was Greek Peak, and Song Mountain, where they had speakers along the slopes that played pop and rock, good times! We’d usually go for night skiing. :)
 
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a2jack

macrumors 6502
Feb 5, 2013
482
337
1944 DC-3 that went down in Ohio was highly modified with Turbine engines and huge props. Looks like auto feather fail. a2
 

PracticalMac

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 22, 2009
2,857
5,243
Houston, TX
I’m just furious with how this is playing out. It’s clearly obvious that Boeing withheld information as to how diffently the Max is from the NG to intice orders. Especially the unstable CG position from the engine placements.

Then you have the Air Force suspending deliveries of their new KC-46’s due to finding the first delivered frames filled with trash, and power tools left in compartments from assembly.

I’m just WTF Boeing. :mad:

The more I hear, the it seems to be the case with missing info and limited training.

Having trash in a finished aircraft is also a critical no-no.

WTF is happening, Boeing???
[doublepost=1552949721][/doublepost]
1944 DC-3 that went down in Ohio was highly modified with Turbine engines and huge props. Looks like auto feather fail. a2

This one?

Engine / prop fail on TO, but pilots did not reach Vmc, or lost too much speed with dead engine?
Shouldn't speculate.

RIP.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,973
W-----T-----F?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That is like having a 1 eyed, 1 armed pilot and no co-pilot.
Boeing sells an option to warn when the 2 AoA sensors disagree. Lion did not have it.

You can't even pay to get redundant MCAS.
 

PracticalMac

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 22, 2009
2,857
5,243
Houston, TX
Boeing sent out an email blast:



To airlines, passengers and the aviation community:

We know lives depend on the work we do, and our teams embrace that responsibility with a deep sense of commitment every day. Our purpose at Boeing is to bring family, friends and loved ones together with our commercial airplanes—safely. The tragic losses of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 and Lion Air Flight 610 affect us all, uniting people and nations in shared grief for all those in mourning. Our hearts are heavy, and we continue to extend our deepest sympathies to the loved ones of the passengers and crew on board.

Safety is at the core of who we are at Boeing, and ensuring safe and reliable travel on our airplanes is an enduring value and our absolute commitment to everyone. This overarching focus on safety spans and binds together our entire global aerospace industry and communities. We’re united with our airline customers, international regulators and government authorities in our efforts to support the most recent investigation, understand the facts of what happened and help prevent future tragedies. Based on facts from the Lion Air Flight 610 accident and emerging data as it becomes available from the Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 accident, we’re taking actions to fully ensure the safety of the 737 MAX. We also understand and regret the challenges for our customers and the flying public caused by the fleet’s grounding.

Work is progressing thoroughly and rapidly to learn more about the Ethiopian Airlines accident and understand the information from the airplane’s cockpit voice and flight data recorders. Our team is on-site with investigators to support the investigation and provide technical expertise. The Ethiopia Accident Investigation Bureau will determine when and how it’s appropriate to release additional details.

Boeing has been in the business of aviation safety for more than 100 years, and we’ll continue providing the best products, training and support to our global airline customers and pilots. This is an ongoing and relentless commitment to make safe airplanes even safer. Soon we’ll release a software update and related pilot training for the 737 MAX that will address concerns discovered in the aftermath of the Lion Air Flight 610 accident. We’ve been working in full cooperation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration, the Department of Transportation and the National Transportation Safety Board on all issues relating to both the Lion Air and the Ethiopian Airlines accidents since the Lion Air accident occurred in October last year.

Our entire team is devoted to the quality and safety of the aircraft we design, produce and support. I’ve dedicated my entire career to Boeing, working shoulder to shoulder with our amazing people and customers for more than three decades, and I personally share their deep sense of commitment. Recently, I spent time with our team members at our 737 production facility in Renton, Wash., and once again saw firsthand the pride our people feel in their work and the pain we’re all experiencing in light of these tragedies. The importance of our work demands the utmost integrity and excellence—that’s what I see in our team, and we’ll never rest in pursuit of it.

Our mission is to connect people and nations, protect freedom, explore our world and the vastness of space, and inspire the next generation of aerospace dreamers and doers—and we’ll fulfill that mission only by upholding and living our values. That’s what safety means to us. Together, we’ll keep working to earn and keep the trust people have placed in Boeing.

6a650d0c-b6dc-4bc8-accc-726a4493c8fb.jpg

Dennis Muilenburg
Chairman, President and CEO
The Boeing Company

I am disappointed in this propaganda letter.
Given recent events, Dennis should resign.
 
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cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
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EASA said the new software will include the AoA disagree display as standard.

They will fully analyze it and the failure modes.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,994
27,080
The Misty Mountains
MCAS is also using only one AoA sensor normally when it should be at least 3.

W-----T-----F?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

That is like having a 1 eyed, 1 armed pilot and no co-pilot.

Boeing sells an option to warn when the 2 AoA sensors disagree. Lion did not have it.

You can't even pay to get redundant MCAS.

A single AOA sensor for such a vital system? This is unbelievable for modern aircraft design, which have historically been standards based on redundancy to avoid failures that result in fatalities.
 

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,973
A single AOA sensor for such a vital system? This is unbelievable for modern aircraft design, which have historically been standards based on redundancy to avoid failures that result in fatalities.
Boeing did not consider that a failure could be catastrophic.
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,994
27,080
The Misty Mountains

cube

Suspended
May 10, 2004
17,011
4,973
From the second link:
The system isn’t mentioned in the flight crew operations manual (FCOM) that governs the master description of the aircraft for pilots and is the basis for Southwest’s airline documentation and training.

UNBELIEVABLE FAIL and liability! :mad:
Also this caption:

"Normal electric trim control on the yoke can stop the MCAS-driven stabilizer movement, however MCAS will activate again within five seconds after the switches are released if the angle of attack is still sensed too high."

So it ran away.

From the first one:

"
After the Lion Air Flight 610 crash, Boeing for the first time provided to airlines details about MCAS. Boeing’s bulletin to the airlines stated that the limit of MCAS’s command was 2.5 degrees.


That number was new to FAA engineers who had seen 0.6 degrees in the safety assessment.


“The FAA believed the airplane was designed to the 0.6 limit, and that’s what the foreign regulatory authorities thought, too,” said an FAA engineer. “It makes a difference in your assessment of the hazard involved.”


The higher limit meant that each time MCAS was triggered, it caused a much greater movement of the tail than was specified in that original safety analysis document.
"
 
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Huntn

macrumors Core
May 5, 2008
23,994
27,080
The Misty Mountains
Also this caption:

"Normal electric trim control on the yoke can stop the MCAS-driven stabilizer movement, however MCAS will activate again within five seconds after the switches are released if the angle of attack is still sensed too high."

So it ran away.
This strikes me as negligence and incompetence, to keep this secret from the companies using these aircraft, because it is not a straight forward runaway trim, which has been trained by pilots for a long time.
 
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PracticalMac

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 22, 2009
2,857
5,243
Houston, TX
It was not that many years ago Boeing was found to be manipulating the new KC tanker contract.
So it was redone
And the won
And then it was discovered it was a lease program, and the DoD/USAF would foot bill to convert to passenger.
and that stupidity was stopped.
And then another run off in KC program with Airbus version.

Then failures in catastrophic testing of first ever Li-ON batteries in a commercial jet.

I worked in McDD, and I saw this crap happening there. Getting worse.
 

decafjava

macrumors 603
Feb 7, 2011
5,513
8,024
Geneva
SMH here, too bad there isn't another real alternative to Boeing and Airbus in the commercial aviation market - well this sector anyway.
 
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