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EvryDayImShufln

macrumors 65816
Sep 18, 2006
1,094
1
you will, if your warranty expired, and you expect your machine to last 5 years, then you got stuck, thats quality control.

That's not really quality control anyway, that would be more of the actual quality of the parts (not the quality of the machine as it leaves the factory). If my logic board is going to wear down and die in 4 years, quality control wouldn't have prevented this.

All the old ibooks and powerbooks with dying logic boards may have had better quality control but for all we know the actual quality of the parts was the same or worse. But then again I'm making assumptions and we haven't waited long enough to see how the MBs and MBPs will hold up.
 

BWhaler

macrumors 68040
Jan 8, 2003
3,789
6,249
He's right. Apple's quality sucks right now.

But it is still the best on the market.

The threat to Apple is will that always be the case.

Apple needs to get their act together.

(My data points: Just point a new 17" MBP and 30" display. 5 grand of hardware. They both have horrific build quality. Horrific. SUre, I can take it in to get repaired, but these are my work tools. So I deal with it. But it makes me wonder why I paid a premium.)
 

h'biki

macrumors regular
Jan 14, 2003
193
1
Sydney, Australia
..adios
..many macusers have hardware problems
..even on the pro machines ..also new macs
..quite unnormal and not what apple used to be

Yeah, that's why we old timer's called Performa's the Malformers. Cause they worked so well.

I think the Apple's hardware and quality control have improved over the 8 years or so. I find the Albooks to be far stronger than the TiBooks for e.g. The B&W B3 had some weird IDE issues. & so on.
 

CaptainCaveMann

macrumors 68000
Oct 5, 2004
1,518
0
Yeah, that's why we old timer's called Performa's the Malformers. Cause they worked so well.

I think the Apple's hardware and quality control have improved over the 8 years or so. I find the Albooks to be far stronger than the TiBooks for e.g. The B&W B3 had some weird IDE issues. & so on.

Ok wait a second, Albooks stronger than Tibooks!? :eek:

I really dont think so, i have a friend that has dropped his tibook several times onto concrete, its now being held together with tape and it still works perfect. Also what about all the dents on the Albooks? Ive never been able to dent my tibook, and i dont think i could even if i tried. This thing is tough as nails, i really cant say the same about my brothers 12 inch aluminum powerbook. He dropped it one time, on carpet, and the thing bent like an accordion. :rolleyes:

Also my tibook has never given me any problems at all. In fact the only weak point of the entire computer is the hinges and paint. Ive never had a problem with either but i mention them because many have had broken hinges, and paint chips. But thats nothing compared to all the issues of the current Albooks. Anyway thats just my humble opinion.

Come on Apple, BRING BACK THE TITANIUM POWERBOOK! Please please please! Except this time, make the hinges stronger, make the paint adhere better, and use the same screens you did on the first ones. Also include the updated intel internals. Do that, and im sold. Even if it cost $4000.00 I would still buy it.
 

dpaanlka

macrumors 601
Nov 16, 2004
4,869
34
Illinois
Yeah, that's why we old timer's called Performa's the Malformers. Cause they worked so well.

I've never heard that phrase before in my life. And all of my Performas (20+) work just fine.

The only "weird IDE issue" on Blue & White G3s was related to using more than two drives, and was addressed in later revisions. It did not hinder the actual performance of the machine.
 

mcarnes

macrumors 68000
Mar 14, 2004
1,928
0
USA! USA!
I think this could be the case or not so much the case. Apple had a run then..sprint even. Faster still. Intel never for naught but..still work fine. It's all good my people!!!!!:) !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

dejo

Moderator emeritus
Sep 2, 2004
15,982
452
The Centennial State
(My data points: Just point a new 17" MBP and 30" display. 5 grand of hardware. They both have horrific build quality. Horrific. SUre, I can take it in to get repaired, but these are my work tools. So I deal with it. But it makes me wonder why I paid a premium.)
Your data points are too small a sample to make any inferences. Please, people. Personal experience != widespread experience.
 

BenHoleton

macrumors regular
Dec 11, 2006
173
0
The Apple is not what it used to be

For anyone out there who truly is fed uo and are wanting to ditch their new Apples, I will take them off your hands. Send them postage due to:

Ben Holeton
3724 Asheford Tr
Antioch, TN 37013


Otherweise, stop whining. I have had far fewer problems with all the apples i have owned than any of my friends have had with sony, hp, dell, etc
 

puddle27

macrumors member
Nov 27, 2006
31
0
Your data points are too small a sample to make any inferences. Please, people. Personal experience != widespread experience.

My 17 inch glossyy MBP has uneven back lighting (i'm sending it in monday for full refund). it's my second one. The first one...same problem. I went to the apple store to open boxes and find a good screen. no luck. at the store i went though two computers with the same problem. the display models had same problem.

Here' the important part. The uneven backlighting varied in degree and pattern. There was one 17" glossy that was close to being good, but still had issues not acceptable for being an expensive pro machine. one display model 17 inch matte screen looked perfect. we allowed the machines coming from the boxes to warm up, and of course the display models were already warmed up. so it's not that. basically the screen looks blotchy, with some areas having very noticeable vertical and horizontal dark areas. you have to look at it with a solid color. but it does affect images. so this laptop is no good for graphic professionals.

So the problem is there. Now, what is causing it is not certain and where it is originating is also not certain. Perhaps we should do a survey here. tell us if your screen is good or bad, and tell us where you live. 'Maybe' it depends on your region. meaning for example east coast gets their computers from one factory, and others from somewhere else. Who knows?

there's a problem folks, we just haven't gotten down to all the facts yet, and perhaps never will. Apple of course is keeping silent (or maybe they really don't realize there is a problem, though i doubt it) and i'm sure they will attempt to quietly fix the problem. an upper level Customer service rep said all computers i looked at--four in total--will be sent to apple engineers. but others here said they got the same response. so i hope it's not ********. but maybe they are just becoming aware. here's hoping.
 

puddle27

macrumors member
Nov 27, 2006
31
0
For anyone out there who truly is fed uo and are wanting to ditch their new Apples, I will take them off your hands. Send them postage due to:

Ben Holeton
3724 Asheford Tr
Antioch, TN 37013


Otherweise, stop whining. I have had far fewer problems with all the apples i have owned than any of my friends have had with sony, hp, dell, etc

do you kiss the backside of your apple computer? why do you care? if there is a problem then people should report it and complain in order to have apple 'improve'. or are you really that much of a fanboy?
 

PDE

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2005
2,484
18
He's right. Apple's quality sucks right now.

But it is still the best on the market.

The threat to Apple is will that always be the case.

Apple needs to get their act together.

(My data points: Just point a new 17" MBP and 30" display. 5 grand of hardware. They both have horrific build quality. Horrific. SUre, I can take it in to get repaired, but these are my work tools. So I deal with it. But it makes me wonder why I paid a premium.)


I really don't think it's the best in the market. If we opened 100 macbook pros and 100 thinkpad t60s, I would bet you a substantial amount of money that there would be many more problems with the mbps than the thinkpads. That's just hypothetical of course, but I just don't think Apple is producing the best quality laptops right now. They may be pretty and feel good because of the metal, but they're not that great. The only reason I'm sticking with Apple is the operating system. Hardware wise there are other options.
 

zami

macrumors regular
Dec 19, 2003
174
0
South London
Speaking from personal experience I think quality is improving. I've had six Macs, five had no problems whatsoever and they were all made in the Far East, one had continuous trouble and was made in the Republic of Ireland.

When we are dealing with constructing cutting edge tecnology it is best to avoid american, british and irish products, they can't even make decent bread FFS.
 

eluk

macrumors 6502a
Dec 14, 2006
946
0
East London, UK
I bought my first Apple a MBP at the end of May and all was fine. With trepidation I got C2D version a month ago. This one too is fine, so far.
Initial experience very favourable. :)
 

alFR

macrumors 68030
Aug 10, 2006
2,834
1,070
My 17 inch glossyy MBP has uneven back lighting (i'm sending it in monday for full refund). it's my second one. The first one...same problem. I went to the apple store to open boxes and find a good screen. no luck. at the store i went though two computers with the same problem. the display models had same problem.

As far as I can see there are:

1. about half a dozen people on here complaining about their MBP screens
2. thousands of people with MBPs who are not, so presumably are happy with them
3. no professional reviews saying that the MBP screen is bad

Draw your own conclusions.... Certainly doesn't sound like a widespread "issue" to me.
 

poppe

macrumors 68020
Apr 29, 2006
2,248
53
Woodland Hills
Sorry if someone has already said this

- Honestly I think the problems with Apple is they are seeing a pretty big growth in multiple fields and aren't the most prepared for it. I think somewhere around those lines is where the problems keep happing with the Macs. My Mac has a tone of problems but with the Intel transition and the huge Macbook demand; plus coming from windows, its not all that bad. Sure it isn't as reliable as a i expected, but... I still get what I need out of it... Maybe Macs are just becoming more cheap, but mine sure doesn't seem cheap.

Even expensive products break down... (still doesn't make it all right, but people sure do get heated over a Mac with a slight problem like a closed MBP that isn't completely even...) If that was the worst of my problems for a computer or any other manufactured thing in the world well I might just be the luckiest man on the planet...

My Point: I understand your frustration. It sucks that they are having problems. It really does, but the computers are still kicking ass and so is the support.

What other product do you have that is as reliable as a Mac that you use as extensively as you use your Mac?

_____________________________________________________________________

Another thought is this:

Is it that Macs have truly become unreliable and build quality has begun a spiraling decline? Or is it that there are a lot more "New to Mac" users. If it is the latter then that means there there are to possibilities. 1. These new users don't understand OS X and have screwed up things. 2. Since there are so many new users then there should be that many more problems.

Again not excuses, but just thoughts.
 

mojohanna

macrumors 6502a
Jul 7, 2004
868
0
Cleveland
Actually, Dell was building computers in the USA because it was cheaper to employ americans to build the computers than it was to ship them from china to america.

HAHHHAHAH A 40 ft container of computers costs prbably $4,500 to $5,000 to ship from china. I don't know how many you can get on a container, but lets say it is about 3,000 laptops, that only adds about $1.66 per unit to ship. Even in China the labor would be more than $1.66/unit. in the US it would be in order of 30% higher for the labor costs.
 

imMAColata

macrumors member
Sep 26, 2006
65
0
All of his posts have a spammy feel about them.

More likely he OD'ed on too much animé.
... some of them
...
... really overdoes the silent thing ...
...

Or he is trying for dramatical, but I think its really more emo/comical :)
I think Apple have lost their way since the transition to having someone else manufacture machines for them. They need to come to grips with that to restore the quality reputation. They need to oversee the process a bit more because it's obvious that a few machines are slipping through their current process..

Aye. CD1 mbs and mbps probably had a few too many oopsies. Its the "outsourcing" paradigm. You do it in the hope of saving money so you won't have to do things properly :)

@poppe

People are perhaps more whiny over mac issues. The percentage of extra-whineyness probably corresponds to Apples extra reassuringly expensiveness, quid pro quo. Anyways I've had the pleasure of receiving a two-dud pixel whiney fan C2D macbook. And its going back alas. Kick ass OS and nice hardware. But QA. Perhaps they need a wee bit more of, since they DO have whiny customers :)
 

thugpoet22

macrumors regular
Apr 26, 2005
130
0
New York
All technology is going to inherit problems or issues. The computers that we work on cant be perfect because the people that build them are from from it. I have a macbook, and it works great for me. I does what i want wit no problems. The build quality is great in my opinion, but if i was getting a desktop i would want to build it myself. That way i can cut cost and i would also know exactly whats in there, but the apple community doesn't seem to support this at all. You have to think about this way as well, now days there building a lot more machines. If more machines are being produced and more people are using them, then there will be a bigger chance that someone will get one thats doesn't act right. To say apple is loosing its quality is false in my opinion.

And the idea of new users screwing around with the OS causing problems for themselves is kinda false as well because at one point the most knowledgeable person on here was a Noob. And they pointed and clicked just as we do now to figure out how to use the computer. And these news users were labeled with the responsibility of causing problems for themselves.
 

PDE

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2005
2,484
18
Not only is it hypothetical it's also bollocks.:)


Anybody in New York who doesn't believe that the current macbook pros have a significantly lower quality display than the previous generation of powerbooks: I will happily meet you in the apple store and show you the differences between an old powerbook 15" display and the macbook pro display, including:

evenness vs. uneveness in illumination
grain
poor viewing angles vertically and horizontally

If you can't see it, you're either blind or just not sensitive to the subtleties of display qualities. Nothing wrong with that, but just as I say that and accept that the display is fine for many people, please try to accept that it isn't acceptable to me and many others who need a more consistent and accurate display. I know three photographers who have returned their MBPs and are holding on to their powerbooks for now as their mobile work stations. There are also quite a few people online with similar sentiment. No reason to get nasty and defensive. It's just a computer.

And, I'll also happily admit that the MBP has a much brighter display when seen straight on (only, not from any angle). For graphics professionals, I'm sorry to say that the MBP display is not acceptable. It can't even display millions of colors properly, as shown by many people with the gradient test. Those who like their MBP displays: great for you. But understand that for many photographers and graphics professionals they're not as good as the previous powerbooks.

Ultimitately: whatever......
 

California

macrumors 68040
Aug 21, 2004
3,885
90
I have owned macs since 1990. The only problems I have had are hard drives dying (non Apple part of course) and one logic board that needed replacement -- but it was a 1ghz Tibook that I bought off eBay so don't know about its treatment. Speaking of 1ghz Tibooks, I bought one that someone had literally THROWN OUT OF A THIRD STORY WINDOW.

And the logic board still worked. Granted, the video cable was cut, but that bent up logic board still went to town.

I personally snapped off the ram holders on a 400mhz Tibook with Apple on the phone once and they replaced the whole board for me!

I have had internal batteries go bad but this is only after five, six or seven years of use. Once on an LCII. Once on a Tibook, Once on a Pismo.

My old 145b PB still works. So does the LCII. The only Apple problem I have seen recently is an old Cube I bought off MR, with the famous smoking power button problem. Fix? Hook it up to an old iMac keyboard with its own power button.

I have set up friends on 233mhz iMacs - still working after nine years.

266mhz iMacs, 333 iMacs, 500mhz iBooks, 900mhz iBooks, aforementioned 145b Powerbooks, 2000 Pismos, 2001 Tibooks (three still going strong that I sold to friends) 2002 Tibook (still going strong) 2003 iMac G3 working fine, 2002 iMac G3s blazing, (never got into the G4 iMacs) 2003 PB, 2005 PB, 2005 mac mini, 2002 Cinema Display, 2005 ACDs, 2001 Powermac 733mhz, 2004, 2005 iBooks, iMac G5 --

all

working

GREAT. Again, the hard drives seem to be the weakness of most Macs. And Apple doesn't make hard drives.

Apple is still Apple. Excellent. Granted, I'm sticking PPC until 08, but there ya go.
Oh and I HAVE NEVER HAD A DEAD PIXEL on an Apple Laptop or Display. Currently I own three LCD displays -- and of the 30 or so mac and mac laptops I've owned -- never a bad pixel.
 

PDE

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2005
2,484
18
You'd rather have hundreds of horizontal lines???


Actually, I probably would if it meant that it would have the other qualities of preceding powerbook G4 15". The horizontal lines were also annoying though and were never universally fixed, though some people reported getting good replacements.

However, I'd prefer to qualify what I wrote earlier by saying the last generation of powerbook G4s 15" BEFORE the change to the current ****** displays (including the so called high definition last generation powerbook G4 which was similar to the current, but not quite as bad).
 

PDE

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2005
2,484
18
I have owned macs since 1990. The only problems I have had are hard drives dying (non Apple part of course) and one logic board that needed replacement -- but it was a 1ghz Tibook that I bought off eBay so don't know about its treatment. Speaking of 1ghz Tibooks, I bought one that someone had literally THROWN OUT OF A THIRD STORY WINDOW.

And the logic board still worked. Granted, the video cable was cut, but that bent up logic board still went to town.

I personally snapped off the ram holders on a 400mhz Tibook with Apple on the phone once and they replaced the whole board for me!

I have had internal batteries go bad but this is only after five, six or seven years of use. Once on an LCII. Once on a Tibook, Once on a Pismo.

My old 145b PB still works. So does the LCII. The only Apple problem I have seen recently is an old Cube I bought off MR, with the famous smoking power button problem. Fix? Hook it up to an old iMac keyboard with its own power button.

I have set up friends on 233mhz iMacs - still working after nine years.

266mhz iMacs, 333 iMacs, 500mhz iBooks, 900mhz iBooks, aforementioned 145b Powerbooks, 2000 Pismos, 2001 Tibooks (three still going strong that I sold to friends) 2002 Tibook (still going strong) 2003 iMac G3 working fine, 2002 iMac G3s blazing, (never got into the G4 iMacs) 2003 PB, 2005 PB, 2005 mac mini, 2002 Cinema Display, 2005 ACDs, 2001 Powermac 733mhz, 2004, 2005 iBooks, iMac G5 --

all

working

GREAT. Again, the hard drives seem to be the weakness of most Macs. And Apple doesn't make hard drives.

Apple is still Apple. Excellent. Granted, I'm sticking PPC until 08, but there ya go.
Oh and I HAVE NEVER HAD A DEAD PIXEL on an Apple Laptop or Display. Currently I own three LCD displays -- and of the 30 or so mac and mac laptops I've owned -- never a bad pixel.


And I've had macs since 1992-93 - starting with a LC475 which had no problems whatsoever for many years. Apple desktops seem more reliable with fewer glitches. After the 475 I had mainly portables: 540c, wallstreet, lombard, pismo, titanium, aluminum, macbook and mbp 15"/17".


540c was great with no issues except hinge plastics cracked which I glued back with glue.

Powerbook G3 Wallstreet first generation 13": overheated, graphics driver was messed up for many months before Apple fixed it, the display cable was defective on many units causing the display to malfunction.

Wallstreet PDQ second generation: great computer still working perfectly at my father's house. Hinges a loose but after 8 years what can you expect?

Powerbook G3 lombard was good with no real problems except some weird graphics issues running current OS but that can't be held against it,

Powerbook G3 PISMO IS/WAs AMAZINGLY GOOD with no serious issues except a optical drive that failed prematurely on many units.

Powerbook G4 Titanium first/second generation had defective inverter on three machines all of which were replaced by Apple. it also suffered from peeling white paint

Titanium last generation: great with no serious flaws except for a lot of heat, but nothing that couldn't be managed. Hinges snapped on many of them too, but not on mine.

First generation aluminum powerbook G4 was plagued by white spots on the display and some display bezel warping, the latter of which was perfectly acceptable though not desirable.

Third (?) revision of aluminum 1.67ghz 15" simply perfect for me at least. No issues, great screen,fit/finish, power, feeling of quality.Should never have sold it!

last revision of powerboo G4 had the infamous horizontal lines and defective batteries that didn't charge and other quality control issues

Macbook Pro rev A: tremendous heat, fit and finish issues, warped display bezels, CPU whining, mooing

Macbook rev A: heat, random shutdown, mooing, discoloration, peeling

Macbook Pro rev B 15": fit and finish issues, poor displays, but otherwise a great machine. IMO, mainly let down by the display.

Macbook pro rev B 17": uneven illumination of display and 6 bit rather than 8 bit so unable to display colors the way previous powerbooks could. Otherwise a great machine if you get a good one.

My point: maybe Apple quality control hasn't gotten worse. Maybe it's always been pretty bad! The only portable mac I've had with Zero problems was the Pismo and the second-to-last generation powerbook G4 15". All others had quite apparent flaws, although they were eventually fixed by Apple.

I suppose there is always a counter story and of course these are not universal issues. However, the problems above were quite widespread among owners and caused many owners to spend their valuable time dealing with long repairs with sometimes very limited results.


Oh, and I've never had a hard drive fail until the pismo hd died after almost 6 years. I've had a few dead pixels though, but never more than one on a single display...there you go.
 
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