The Apple Is Not What It Used To Be

[iW00t]

Your data points are too small a sample to make any inferences. Please, people. Personal experience != widespread experience.

Who cares about statistics if said user consistently gets shoddy hardware. We are not paid to be statisticians, we are paying to support Apple and their platform.

Well I suppose you do have a point if one has to spend 2 hours each time over 4 exchanges to get a good quality piece of equipment.

 

[iW00t]

HAHHHAHAH A 40 ft container of computers costs prbably $4,500 to $5,000 to ship from china. I don't know how many you can get on a container, but lets say it is about 3,000 laptops, that only adds about $1.66 per unit to ship. Even in China the labor would be more than $1.66/unit. in the US it would be in order of 30% higher for the labor costs.

In the 2 months it takes to "ship" the costs of the processors used in the computers would have depreciated by $100. Don't you know that each and every laptop is individually freighted by air?

 

[iW00t]

You'd rather have hundreds of horizontal lines???

As opposed to thousands of shimmering pixels and as a free added bonus jpeg artifacts over anything I see on screen.

 

[puddle27]

As far as I can see there are:

1. about half a dozen people on here complaining about their MBP screens
2. thousands of people with MBPs who are not, so presumably are happy with them
3. no professional reviews saying that the MBP screen is bad

Draw your own conclusions.... Certainly doesn't sound like a widespread "issue" to me.

oh then in that case it's local to my apartment and local Apple Store

Professional Reviews? the writers are fanboys just as much as you are. Everyone hates dell, everyone hates Windows...so Apple gets away with bloody murder.

Thousands of people not complaining. Not everyone comes online, and majority of casual computer users do not notice. There are more than half-dozen here.

I bet some of you defenders refuse to check your displays. switch to a solid background!!

Not to mention there's a lot of scenarios. maybe the bad computers are coming from one factory, or perhaps only affects buyers who bought within a certain time period. The rest of my post covered these possibilities.

There's a problem. How big it is, obviously no one knows. It looks like people in NYC (that's where I am from) who want to buy a 17' MBP glossy, is best to wait until the bad screens go away. unless you don't care or notice such things. i notices it and decided it's not worth $3,000 to settle.

 

[puddle27]

Anybody in New York who doesn't believe that the current macbook pros have a significantly lower quality display than the previous generation of powerbooks: I will happily meet you in the apple store and show you the differences between an old powerbook 15" display and the macbook pro display, including:

evenness vs. uneveness in illumination
grain
poor viewing angles vertically and horizontally

If you can't see it, you're either blind or just not sensitive to the subtleties of display qualities. Nothing wrong with that, but just as I say that and accept that the display is fine for many people, please try to accept that it isn't acceptable to me and many others who need a more consistent and accurate display. I know three photographers who have returned their MBPs and are holding on to their powerbooks for now as their mobile work stations. There are also quite a few people online with similar sentiment. No reason to get nasty and defensive. It's just a computer.

And, I'll also happily admit that the MBP has a much brighter display when seen straight on (only, not from any angle). For graphics professionals, I'm sorry to say that the MBP display is not acceptable. It can't even display millions of colors properly, as shown by many people with the gradient test. Those who like their MBP displays: great for you. But understand that for many photographers and graphics professionals they're not as good as the previous powerbooks.

Ultimitately: whatever......

Hey I'm from NYC and also noticed the bad laptops!! I sent my back since i would have been using if for graphic stuff. One theory i already posted is perhaps certains regions get there computers from certain places. Like the New york region is screwed while other regions are not because of the factory they are coming from.. Because, some people here are getting really defensive and seem to believe their MBPs do not have this issue and want us complainers to stop (though we really shouldn't. If apple is to fix the problem, then people need to voice their concern). I just find it weird that the Soho Apple display models have the same problem, along with units coming out of the box in the store.

Considering all the graphic professionals in New York, Apple should really make sure the region gets the best computers they make. these are the people who talk to other people in the field--setting standards. they also have access to tech journalists and all that. What's Apple doing?

 

[mojohanna]

In the 2 months it takes to "ship" the costs of the processors used in the computers would have depreciated by $100. Don't you know that each and every laptop is individually freighted by air?

Try about 14-18 days to ship Shanghai to Long Beach. I doubt that every computer built is shipped via air. I would imagine BTO's would be and maybe at the start of a model introduction (due to demand and initial stocking). But the expense of air freight over ocean freight is immense. No company in their right mind would continually airfreight product unless it was absolutely necessary.

 

[iW00t]

Try about 14-18 days to ship Shanghai to Long Beach. I doubt that every computer built is shipped via air. I would imagine BTO's would be and maybe at the start of a model introduction (due to demand and initial stocking). But the expense of air freight over ocean freight is immense. No company in their right mind would continually airfreight product unless it was absolutely necessary.

Funny, you seem to project the impression that it only costs $1.66 to "ship" each laptop from Shanghai to the States.

HAHHHAHAH A 40 ft container of computers costs prbably $4,500 to $5,000 to ship from china. I don't know how many you can get on a container, but lets say it is about 3,000 laptops, that only adds about $1.66 per unit to ship. Even in China the labor would be more than $1.66/unit. in the US it would be in order of 30% higher for the labor costs.

 

[barnaby]

Is ignorance a good excuse for Apple to pass off sub-standard subsystems?

I don't think so. In business professional (i.e. not weighted towards sound, graphics etc but just overall system performance and usability) terms as far as I'm concerned, the Macbook Pro is a steaming heap of junk. It is simply not usable in a professional aspect. The moment I for example go into Parallels, crank up Bloomberg and hit it with say one of my (admittedly huge) Excel spreadsheets it turns into a furnace. If I bring up an engineering simulation, it turns into a furnace. If I game, it also turns into a furnace. And the problems don't end there.

My Dell XPS M1710 or the HP nx9420 I had before stays cool doing the same things. They also don't bend during the course of normal 'luggable' life, don't have hundreds of little 'gotchas', are better supported and most definitely, built to a higher standard (or in the case of the Dell, less ambitiously). Just because something looks better doesn't mean it's built better. The irony is that the M1710 is a gaming machine - yet it's far better a professional tool than the Macbook Pro. And since they both shared the same guts, the sole difference between the HP nx laptop and the MBP was the superior build quality and more stable operation of the HP.

The 'Pro' moniker should really be 'more advanced yet still undemanding home user who has never experienced what a real Pro machine should be and is easily deceived by looks', and that also extends to the Mac Pro. And that's how I use my 'Pro' Macs now - noodling around with stuff at home. The real 'Pro' stuff is handled by Dell, HP and Sony gear.

I still think the MBP is a nice home laptop though, provided you don't try and use it's actual power too much. The Macbook - well, it's sole reason to buy is as an OS X platform, no more no less.

So you've concluded that a Windows machine runs Windows software more smoothly than an Apple machine runs Windows software through an emulator. Interesting.

I can't compare games, but I develop simulation models to test hypotheses in my research. These are NP-complete and PSPACE-complete problems where I need to compare brute force results to heuristic results. I've developed these kind of tests for years on Windows machines, but switched almost 4 years ago due to productivity gains in developing the software on a Mac.

I'm confused as to what you're claiming Dell, HP and Compaq do better? The line between OS and hardware being poor is a bit blurry in your arguments. The choice of OS is just that, a choice. Windows has a larger marketshare, so if what you need to use professionally is only available there then it's the OS you should use.

 

[brikeh]

I wish there was a legal way to run OSX on my trusty thinkpad

 

[alFR]

Professional Reviews? the writers are fanboys just as much as you are. Everyone hates dell, everyone hates Windows...so Apple gets away with bloody murder.

Hmm, I suppose that's why the ones I read criticised other aspects of the design (like no case change from the last-gen Powerbook, heat etc.) but didn't mention the screens.

Thousands of people not complaining. Not everyone comes online, and majority of casual computer users do not notice. There are more than half-dozen here.

OK, maybe a dozen then. It's not very many. At least as many people posted in the "Is anyone happy with the MBP 15" screen" thread to say that theirs was fine.

Not to mention there's a lot of scenarios. maybe the bad computers are coming from one factory, or perhaps only affects buyers who bought within a certain time period. The rest of my post covered these possibilities.

True. I never said there wasn't a problem with some machines: however, I just don't think based on the available evidence that all MBPs have bad screens. Based on what I've personally seen, the ones in my local Apple store looked no different to any other laptop screen I've seen. No better, no worse. Not significantly more "grainy" than the 23" ACDs next to them either. Maybe a different batch, maybe I'm not as critical as you, whatever.

p.s. If I'm such a fanboy, why am I typing this from a Dell?

 

[brikeh]

p.s. If I'm such a fanboy, why am I typing this from a Dell?

Maybe because your Mac is in for repairs?

 

[Evangelion]

Problem is that when people have a problem with something, be it their OS, computer, television, relationship, etc. etc., they will complain about it. But when everything is working fine, they are not going to say "just wanted to let you guys know that everything is working fine", rather, they will be silent, since to them, everything is as they should be. People only speak when things are not "normal". And failing hardware is not normal. Hardware that works fine IS normal, so they will not speak.

What does this mean? It means that if we have 1000 computers, and 20 of those has some kind of problem we might have 15 people on the forum complaining about it. But we might not have a single user telling how everything works perfectly.

Does Apple have problems with their hardware? Sure! Show me a hardware-company that makes hardware that never has any problems, and I'll show you a company that doesn't really make any hardware at all. If you build something, there will be issues with the things you build.

While Apple has it's share of problems, it's not like this is a recent phenomena. DIdn't one of the first PowerBooks have a risk of going up in smoke? The TiBooks had flaking paint. One of the PowerMacs was so loud, it was nicknamed "Windtunnel-Powermac". Yes, Apple has some hardware-problems now. But they have had hardware-problems for as long as they have been making computers. And I bet that Apple's track-record is still among the best in the industry. IBM and their Thinkpads were equal, or maybe even a bit better, but I have heard that their quality has gone down since Lenovo-purchace. So it just might be that Apple makes the best laptops in the indsutry right now, and I bet that their desktops are among the best as well (quality-wise).

 

[brikeh]

So it just might be that Apple makes the best laptops in the indsutry right now, and I bet that their desktops are among the best as well (quality-wise).

Holy crap thats a bold statement, IMO the thinkpads are far superior when it comes to buildquality, yes this includes the Lenovo TP´s. Also....does it really have to be pointed out in every thread that the majority is happy, only unhappy people complain etc etc...I mean C´mon...that goes without saying. It does seem as though a lot of people are experiencing some troubles with these new machines.

 

[Evangelion]

Holy crap thats a bold statement

I did say that IBM Thinkpads might be better than Apple-laptops. In fact, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. But I have heard that their quality has been going down since Lenovo took over the business.

IMO the thinkpads are far superior when it comes to buildquality

So that's your opinion. And I had my opinion. What exactly makes your opinion more correct than my opinion.

Also....does it really have to be pointed out in every thread that the majority is happy, only unhappy people complain etc etc.

It seems so.

 

[brikeh]

I did say that IBM Thinkpads might be better than Apple-laptops. In fact, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. But I have heard that their quality has been going down since Lenovo took over the business.



So that's your opinion. And I had my opinion. What exactly makes your opinion more correct than my opinion.



It seems so.

Jesus man stop cryin will you, I didnt say I was right and you were wrong, MY OPINION. And no it doesnt seem as though quality has gone down since Lenovo took over, we have 7 thinkpads at the office and I have one at home, no probs.(except for XP ) My mbps...thats another story altogether. I was in the Apple store today again and the display models still looked like ****. The grain is there alright, the screens I have seen so far are a joke...and theyre attached to a "pro" laptop. Ill be staying clear of Apple portables for a while, I´m just disgusted in the way theyve been cutting corners. I returned both my MBPs for a full refund. And Im happy...I dont have time to send **** in for repairs and have it returned with an even crappier display+scratches and more.

 

[Compile 'em all]

So you've concluded that a Windows machine runs Windows software more smoothly than an Apple machine runs Windows software through an emulator. Interesting.

I can't compare games, but I develop simulation models to test hypotheses in my research. These are NP-complete and PSPACE-complete problems where I need to compare brute force results to heuristic results. I've developed these kind of tests for years on Windows machines, but switched almost 4 years ago due to productivity gains in developing the software on a Mac.

I'm confused as to what you're claiming Dell, HP and Compaq do better? The line between OS and hardware being poor is a bit blurry in your arguments. The choice of OS is just that, a choice. Windows has a larger marketshare, so if what you need to use professionally is only available there then it's the OS you should use.

What Seeshi was trying to point at is that although the mbp is marketed as a pro machine you can't use it as one, especially when considering the heat issues. When running CPU intensive tasks (which is expected for a pro machine), there are certain parts of the "laptop" that become so hot that you can get seriously burned if you touch them.

 

[Evangelion]

Jesus man stop cryin will you,

Who's crying?

And no it doesnt seem as though quality has gone down since Lenovo took over, we have 7 thinkpads at the office and I have one at home, no probs.

I'm sorry, but anecdotal evidence simply does not cut it.

 

[brikeh]

Who's crying?
I'm sorry, but anecdotal evidence simply does not cut it.

Thats not evidence, thats a fact...8 flawless products. Im not saying that means ALL thinkpads work great, Im saying my thinkpads work great. Im also not saying all MBPs are crap but....Each and everyone I have seen so far(20+) have been.

 

[clevin]

I wish there was a legal way to run OSX on my trusty thinkpad

same goes to my compaq too,

 

[setso]

p.s. If I'm such a fanboy, why am I typing this from a Dell?

..go to dHell, schucker

 

[setso]

same goes to my compaq too,

..dos OSX bootzy also from Floppy ?

 

[setso]

Dell Inspiron 7500 MacOSX

>>off topic ..XinHell ..does this (kinda) work ?

 

[setso]

He's right. Apple's quality sucks right now.

But it is still the best on the market.

The threat to Apple is will that always be the case.

Apple needs to get their act together.

..straighten the production line ..less iPod gimmix ..new fibre (or old alu)

 

[srf4real]

macs rule.

 

[iW00t]

I'm sorry, but anecdotal evidence simply does not cut it.

Do you have official evidence to the contrary?

In the absence of unbiased evidence, I will gladly take anecdotal evidence any day. Perhaps that is why word of mouth marketing is such an important component of viral marketing?

Think about it. Only fanboys stand behind "anecdotal evidence", the rest of the world takes their friends'/opinion leaders' opinions as gospel truth, anecdotal or otherwise.