The Car Thread ... !

[AustinIllini]

Heh heh

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/...once_a_big_name_company_that_suddenly/cwdmx0t

Yeah, totally the worst.

 

[D.T.]

It's in another state, having to get it shipped :/ I do have dealer photos, but kind of wanted to post the real deal

Finally got the paperwork done and back to the dealer ... and the transport is on the way to the lot to pick it up!

 

[shinji]

I brought my car in for an oil change and tire rotation earlier, and the guy behind the desk said the tires are starting to dry rot. They're Michelin Primacy MXM4's that I've had for about 42,000 miles.

More pics here http://imgur.com/a/RiFGo

Any idea how bad this is, and would you say they need to be replaced before holiday highway travel (about 500 miles roundtrip)?

 

[D.T.]

Status
In-Route

Vehicle
2016 FORD MUSTANG

Origin
COLUMBIA, MD

Destination
ST AUGUSTINE, FL

Latest Comments
ETA 10/30

 

[iLog.Genius]

Isn't dry rot when the rubber loses it's properties and basically loses it's function (flexibility and grip)? If that's the case, I would replace them sooner rather than later. Will anything happen? Who knows but it's definitely a safety hazard. You're not supposed to drive winter tires year long but I've seen people do it here in Toronto where it can get pretty hot.

 

[shinji]

Isn't dry rot when the rubber loses it's properties and basically loses it's function (flexibility and grip)? If that's the case, I would replace them sooner rather than later. Will anything happen? Who knows but it's definitely a safety hazard. You're not supposed to drive winter tires year long but I've seen people do it here in Toronto where it can get pretty hot.

He didn't say they were in need of imminent replacement, but lamented how Michelin's $70 rebate promotion is over, and that I should "check back in a few months...well not a few months, see if Michelin brings it back in November or whenever."

So I'm not sure how much to trust his assessment. I'm hoping the pics can shed some light for one of the car experts here.

I got these all season tires in 2011, put ~42,000 miles on them, and have been otherwise happy. I'd buy Michelin again unless someone here has another suggestion (Continental has that $70 rebate going on, also I believe a good brand).

 

[iLog.Genius]

He didn't say they were in need of imminent replacement, but lamented how Michelin's $70 rebate promotion is over, and that I should "check back in a few months...well not a few months, see if Michelin brings it back in November or whenever."

So I'm not sure how much to trust his assessment. I'm hoping the pics can shed some light for one of the car experts here.

I got these all season tires in 2011, put ~42,000 miles on them, and have been otherwise happy. I'd buy Michelin again unless someone here has another suggestion (Continental has that $70 rebate going on, also I believe a good brand).

If it were me, I would swap them before going on a road trip. If the side wall is already cracking, the rubber has already lost some or most of its properties to perform the way they're intended and it would be really unfortunate for something to happen when you're on your trip. But of course nothing may happen and you should be ok but is that a risk you want to take? If it's something you're going to have to replace, why wait to do it. I learned my lesson with doing preventative maintenance. I got stranded once because I chose to ignore something that may/may not fail at the time. I gambled and lost.

 

[bunnspecial]

It looks like your tread is pretty worn anyway, and the sidewall cracking looks pretty severe. I'd not want to set out on a trip-or drive on the interstate for that matter-with tires like that but then I'm pretty anal about it. ~40,000 miles is about typical in my experience for this class of tire.

I'm not a fan of Continental tires. They tend to be somewhat of a performance oriented brand, but anecdotally I've known several folks who have had problems with "bubbles" in them(basically sidewall separation). I wouldn't want to plunk down big cash on those.

I like MXM4s-in fact they were the OEM rubber on my car. They are a superb GT-type tire(i.e. balancing fairly good grip with a comfortable ride), although in that class I personally think the Bridgestone Taranza is a slightly better tire. I've always been a Michelin fan, so it pains me to say it but I find the Bridgestones to be slightly quieter and-more importantly-have better wet traction than the MXM4. I've had both tires on the same car, so think I have a decent feel for how they compare. The Michelin and Bridgestone flip flop in price, and at any one point you might be looking at a $5-10 difference per tire so I'd consider the cost a wash(especially since realistically I'm guessing you're going to be around $1k out the door mounting/balancing/aligning at the size you appear to have in this class of tire).

If you like your MXM4s, I don't think you can go wrong with another set of them. With that said, I'd definitely give the Bridgestones a good look.

 

[senseless]

Status
In-Route

Vehicle
2016 FORD MUSTANG

Origin
COLUMBIA, MD

Destination
ST AUGUSTINE, FL

Latest Comments
ETA 10/30

Nice! Perfect climate for RWD

 

[A.Goldberg]

I brought my car in for an oil change and tire rotation earlier, and the guy behind the desk said the tires are starting to dry rot. They're Michelin Primacy MXM4's that I've had for about 42,000 miles.

More pics here http://imgur.com/a/RiFGo

Any idea how bad this is, and would you say they need to be replaced before holiday highway travel (about 500 miles roundtrip)?

I would be *somewhat* leery about driving on those. Very minimal cracking on the sidewalls is acceptable but a sign your tires are aging. These hairline cracks can be exacerbated by tire shine/armoral products that dry out the rubber prematurely. It does appear the hairlines are inching towards the treads and between the tread lines (you should look at your tires tread to check for cracking between the tread).

If you are going on a trip, I would get the replaced before you leave. High speeds and tire disintegration can have catastrophic effects- to your car, others' property, passengers, other drivers, pedestrians, and yourself. If you drive in a cold climate (especially with snow), there's another good reason to replace them. Dried out, worn out tires aren't good in the snow.

I am a big fan of Michelin tires. I'm not sure what kind of car you drive, but 42,000 miles is pretty good for a set of tires, especially if you have a heaver car or AWD. My 535xi has run flat tires (which suck BTW). Looking at my dad's service records, these things only last 25k miles (another reason to to pick RFT's). My dad's Range Rover Sport (conventional tires) ate through it's first pair of Continental all-season tires in just over 15,000 miles! He switched to Michelins and got 30k miles of longevity. I feel like most cars with good quality conventional tires last ~30,000, maybe 40,000 miles. Cheaper tires use harder rubber, and actually last longer but do not perform nearly as well.

I've always been a big fan of Michelin tires and believe they're worth the extra cost in terms of performance and longevity. On my Grand Cherokee, I went through Goodyear Tires (I forget the model, but they were ~$160) like crazy in the first 5-6 years I owned that car before switching to Michelin. The worst Goodyear problem was having a tire burst and nearly ripped off the side of my car on a rock cliff.

 

[shinji]

Thanks guys. You've convinced me to bite the bullet on this one and replace them.

I like MXM4s-in fact they were the OEM rubber on my car. They are a superb GT-type tire(i.e. balancing fairly good grip with a comfortable ride), although in that class I personally think the Bridgestone Taranza is a slightly better tire. I've always been a Michelin fan, so it pains me to say it but I find the Bridgestones to be slightly quieter and-more importantly-have better wet traction than the MXM4. I've had both tires on the same car, so think I have a decent feel for how they compare. The Michelin and Bridgestone flip flop in price, and at any one point you might be looking at a $5-10 difference per tire so I'd consider the cost a wash(especially since realistically I'm guessing you're going to be around $1k out the door mounting/balancing/aligning at the size you appear to have in this class of tire).

Yeah, ~$1000 for a new set of Primacy MXM4 tires, installation, alignment, and tax. There is also the Michelin Premier A/S which has slightly better ratings on TireRack and is a few dollars cheaper.

I am a big fan of Michelin tires. I'm not sure what kind of car you drive, but 42,000 miles is pretty good for a set of tires, especially if you have a heaver car or AWD. My 535xi has run flat tires (which suck BTW). Looking at my dad's service records, these things only last 25k miles (another reason to to pick RFT's). My dad's Range Rover Sport (conventional tires) ate through it's first pair of Continental all-season tires in just over 15,000 miles! He switched to Michelins and got 30k miles of longevity. I feel like most cars with good quality conventional tires last ~30,000, maybe 40,000 miles. Cheaper tires use harder rubber, and actually last longer but do not perform nearly as well.

I drive an Acura TSX. Very interesting about the tire shine thing too because the car wash I go to does use Armor-All tire shine in the package I buy. I'll have to stop doing that.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I drive an Acura TSX. Very interesting about the tire shine thing too because the car wash I go to does use Armor-All tire shine in the package I buy. I'll have to stop doing that.

Oxygen and UV radiation are the biggest causes of rubber degradation besides physical wear. Though the chemistry is different for different products (tires and cleaning supplies) and largely theoretical, the best information I have found on Armor All states that it is product of emulsion. The rubber in tires is treated with antioxidants and UV protectants to improve longevity. The emulsifier in Armor All can emulsify the protective additives and remove them from the rubber. (If you're not chemically inclined-- this pretty much the how soap works. You're washing out the stabilizing products added to the tires.)

I've read some other theories about alcohol or silicon in the Armor All "drying" out the tires by drawing out the water. I don't don't buy those theories. If that were true, simple evaporation or salt on the road would would ruin your tires very quickly.

Despite all being somewhat theoretical, Armor All is well correlated to tire cracking, not to mention dashboard cracking and swelling (particularly in older cars with less advanced plastics).

I'm sure if you do research, there might be a product out there with less harmful effects as Armor All. You want generally want to avoid silicone products, with the exception of Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS). Dimethal silicone oil (DMS) is the most commonly found harmful silicone product.

 

[shinji]

Oxygen and UV radiation are the biggest causes of rubber degradation besides physical wear. Though the chemistry is different for different products (tires and cleaning supplies) and largely theoretical, the best information I have found on Armor All states that it is product of emulsion. The rubber in tires is treated with antioxidants and UV protectants to improve longevity. The emulsifier in Armor All can emulsify the protective additives and remove them from the rubber. (If you're not chemically inclined-- this pretty much the how soap works. You're washing out the stabilizing products added to the tires.)

I've read some other theories about alcohol or silicon in the Armor All "drying" out the tires by drawing out the water. I don't don't buy those theories. If that were true, simple evaporation or salt on the road would would ruin your tires very quickly.

Despite all being somewhat theoretical, Armor All is well correlated to tire cracking, not to mention dashboard cracking and swelling (particularly in older cars with less advanced plastics).

I'm sure if you do research, there might be a product out there with less harmful effects as Armor All. You want generally want to avoid silicone products, with the exception of Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS). Dimethal silicone oil (DMS) is the most commonly found harmful silicone product.

You know, it would make sense because the car is kept in a garage overnight and for much of the day, so it's probably getting less UV radiation than most. I only drive about 10k mi/yr.

This car wash has the Armor All logo everywhere. The package I've been getting with tire shine also includes wheel brightener and other stuff that maybe gets smeared on it carelessly.

 

[D.T.]

Nice! Perfect climate for RWD

You know it, and starting now is the perfect convertible weather - it's actually too hot in the summer, fall and spring are awesome though.

My wife is from your neck of the woods, went to CMU.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Anyone see this report: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/vw-excess-emissions-linked-to-60-us-deaths-study.html
VW excess emissions linked to 60 US deaths: Study

Volkswagen's rigging of its diesel cars to cheat on emissions tests could cause around 60 deaths in the US by the end of next year, according to research by scientists at Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology....

..."We all have risk factors in our lives, and [excess emissions] is another small risk factor," said Steven Barrett of MIT, one of the authors of the report, in a statement. "If you take into account the additional risk due to the excess Volkswagen emissions, then roughly 60 people have died or will die early, and on average, a decade or more early."

The healthcare sector will also be impacted, according to the study, with "approximately 31 cases of chronic bronchitis, 34 hospital admissions, 120,000 minor restricted activity days, 21,000 lower respiratory symptom days, and 33,000 days of increased bronchodilator usage".

It looks like the research is out. VW's emissions have been linked to 60 deaths that have not yet occurred. That's very questionable language right there. From a scientific... or legal standpoint, I can't imagine proving the causation. I'd also question the statistical significance of such small outcome numbers on a huge population (60/320,000,000)... but I will read the full text of the official report later today. I'm curious to see what has to say.

 

[bunnspecial]

Yeah, ~$1000 for a new set of Primacy MXM4 tires, installation, alignment, and tax. There is also the Michelin Premier A/S which has slightly better ratings on TireRack and is a few dollars cheaper.

My dad HAD a set of Michelin Premier tires on his car(OEM). Admittedly I'm comparing two different cars, but having driven on both I'd pick the MXM4 any day.

Another one to consider is the Pilot Sport A/S, which-as the name would imply-is more of a "sporty" type tire. I had a set of these and they were superb for the entire 25,000 miles I got out of them.

 

[2298754]

Anyone see this report: http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/29/vw-excess-emissions-linked-to-60-us-deaths-study.html
VW excess emissions linked to 60 US deaths: Study



It looks like the research is out. VW's emissions have been linked to 60 deaths that have not yet occurred. That's very questionable language right there. From a scientific... or legal standpoint, I can't imagine proving the causation. I'd also question the statistical significance of such small outcome numbers on a huge population (60/320,000,000)... but I will read the full text of the official report later today. I'm curious to see what has to say.

Oh here we go...

 

[garymkrieg]

I'm sure if you do research, there might be a product out there with less harmful effects as Armor All. You want generally want to avoid silicone products, with the exception of Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS). Dimethal silicone oil (DMS) is the most commonly found harmful silicone product.

That product would be 303 Aerospace Protectant. Here's the description from the manufacturer:

Originally engineered for aerospace and aviation applications, 303 Aerospace Protectant has found its way into millions of homes for day-to-day use on vehicles, sports equipment and more. Unlike many protectants that leave greasy residues, Aerospace dries to a clear matte finish without a trace of oil. And because it’s water-based, this protectant is safe to use on all products, from your vehicle’s paint job and leather seats to internal engine parts. There’s a lot of power packed into this one product. A premium surface treatment, Aerospace not only protects against fading, discoloration and cracking from harmful UV rays, but repels dust and stains, too.

Gary

 

[A.Goldberg]

That product would be 303 Aerospace Protectant. Here's the description from the manufacturer:

Originally engineered for aerospace and aviation applications, 303 Aerospace Protectant has found its way into millions of homes for day-to-day use on vehicles, sports equipment and more. Unlike many protectants that leave greasy residues, Aerospace dries to a clear matte finish without a trace of oil. And because it’s water-based, this protectant is safe to use on all products, from your vehicle’s paint job and leather seats to internal engine parts. There’s a lot of power packed into this one product. A premium surface treatment, Aerospace not only protects against fading, discoloration and cracking from harmful UV rays, but repels dust and stains, too.

Gary

Yes, Aerospace 303 is the product my father uses in his classic cars. The tire shine he uses is called Optimum Tire Gel. They cost a lot more but don't cause problems like many of the other products.

 

[shinji]

My dad HAD a set of Michelin Premier tires on his car(OEM). Admittedly I'm comparing two different cars, but having driven on both I'd pick the MXM4 any day.

Another one to consider is the Pilot Sport A/S, which-as the name would imply-is more of a "sporty" type tire. I had a set of these and they were superb for the entire 25,000 miles I got out of them.

From a performance perspective, you prefer MXM4 over Premier? Because I'd be ok with a slight hit to performance for better durability.

 

[bunnspecial]

From a performance perspective, you prefer MXM4 over Premier? Because I'd be ok with a slight hit to performance for better durability.

I'll be blunt and say that in pretty much every way I find the MXM4 to be a better tire. The wet/dry traction is better(esp. wet traction, which I consider a safety issue much more so than a performance one), they are quieter, and they ride softer.

I disliked the Premiers so much that I'd never suggest them. The only thing they have going for them is better treadlife, but if you truly drive the car as little as you say you do the tread life will not be a limiting factor in their life.

BTW, as far as cleaning tires I use Westley's Bleche-White to clean the tires first(spray it on, let it sit for a minute, then scrub with a stiff brush followed by a thorough rinse) and Meguires hot-shot tire foam. My tires always have sidewalls that look brand new even at the end of their life. Even though the Bleche-White would make you think it's intended for white walls(and it's also marketed as such) it does a great job of removing both dirt and brown rubber oxides from black walls.

 

[shinji]

Well, $930 later and I have a new set of Primacy MXM4s. Thanks everyone for your advice.

 

[D.T.]

It's here ... and it's fantastic ... !!

Halloween delivery, black on black, redline interior, maybe I'll call it the Grim Reaper.

A few quick notes:

The GTPP is perfect - the whole package feels put together, both from a driving and an aesthetic perspective.

It's amazing how far car electronics have come in the past few years.

Interior is pretty glorious, what an inexpensive but huge impacting upgrade (with the Premier trim)

One of a handful in the US with the color+interior+convertible+manual+GTPP

Yes ... a MANUAL

Mmmm ... 5 liter Coyote ... ARH-WOOOOOOO!

[Short term] needs:

More cowbell (well, more sound)

Removal of clutch assist spring

 

[A.Goldberg]

It's here ... and it's fantastic ... !!

Halloween delivery, black on black, redline interior, maybe I'll call it the Grim Reaper.

A few quick notes:

The GTPP is perfect - the whole package feels put together, both from a driving and an aesthetic perspective.

It's amazing how far car electronics have come in the past few years.

Interior is pretty glorious, what an inexpensive but huge impacting upgrade (with the Premier trim)

One of a handful in the US with the color+interior+convertible+manual+GTPP

Yes ... a MANUAL

Mmmm ... 5 liter Coyote ... ARH-WOOOOOOO!

[Short term] needs:

More cowbell (well, more sound)

Removal of clutch assist spring

You don't seem so thrilled DT...

 

[AustinIllini]

More and more bad from VW. Turns out Audi and Porsche cheated the emissions as well.

http://www.cnet.com/news/epa-says-more-vw-audi-and-porsche-diesel-models-violate-emissions-rules/