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A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
It's pretty sad. We bought my wife's Beetle new in 2012, which was (and has been) a great car. Had good feature content and build quality for the money at the time. We were at the VW dealer recently, and the 2016 Beetle is virtually identical, sans replacement of the trusty old 2.5 with the 1.8T. Feature-wise, it's the exact same car, sans carplay. Same seats, same stereos, same options. In the Beetle's defense, it hasn't had a facelift yet and I know they will probably run this thing 12 years, but I would still expect some better/new options by the 5th year of the run. Just made us feel that much better about the '12, I guess.

The problem with VW is that at the start of the decade they thought everyone wanted big and cheap (which to a degree, they were right - so many Walmart-venturing Americans want the biggest piece of **** for the cheapest price) - but the problem is, those Walmart-venturing bottom feeders were never shopping VW anyway. A larger segment of the public actually decided they wanted more features and more content, and better build quality, and the rest of the manufacturers realized this. It may have taken a bailout or close to it for a few manufacturers to realize it, but it did light a fire under their ass to put out a great product, but what was VW doing in 2008-2009 during the bailout years to then think releasing a decontented Jetta and Passat a couple years later would go over well?

My biggest gripe with VW is that they are just terrible with facelifts and refreshes. You might get different bumpers, but other than that, you can forget it for the most part. The car they sell at the end of the model run is basically the exact same car they sold at the start of the model run, and it was maybe competitive for the first 1-3 years of the run. I mean, look at the Tiguan. VW has done next to nothing with it for the last 5 years, and not much at all over the entire 6-7 year lifespan in terms of tech or tangible features. Then I think of what Ford did with the Mustang between 2005-2014, which included new sheetmetal for literally every single body panel on the car except the roof skin in 2010, an enormous mechanical refresh in 2011 with the clean sheet 5.0 and 300+ hp V6s, introduction of the entire Brembo/Track Pack and all the suspension/brakes/goodies that goes with that, fine tuning of the solid rear axle and better tranny tuning, completely new interior as well in 2010 with much, much better materials, hi res full color multi function display with mycolor, ambient lighting, track apps, a glass roof option, better stereos, etc. Then if that wasn't enough, in 2013 the car got yet another major refresh where it gained all new front and rear designs and updated lower fascias, bixenons standard across the line, led running lights, full led taillights, led fog lights - i mean the list goes on, and that was just for the final two years of its life. Not to mention just happening to throw in that BOSS 302 and also doing a couple major GT500 refreshes, resulting in a 662 hp monster in the end. And they did all this development in the midst of the bailout years?

Maybe ford isn't the norm, but I don't think VW is either. Ford really seems to have busted their behinds to get people in the showroom, and it seems pretty evident they deserve to sell the cars that they do. VW meanwhile decontented everything and lies about what was arguably its best product, then even removes the ten cent USB port from the center console in the Tiguan. The Tiguan has always been criticized as overpriced, so in response in 2016 VW doesn't add content, or reduce the price of the existing offering, instead, they reshuffle the trim lines so that the previously top of the line R-line which contained all the top of the line features as well as the sporty R-line bits is now the second crappiest trim, and the top of the line is now the SEL. Well yeah it's $2k-$3k cheaper, but it's decontented accordingly as it no longer has any of the sporty R-line bits. So it isn't any cheaper, it's still just decontented.

Don't get me wrong, I love VW and am looking hard at a CC R-line Executive w/Carbon next spring, but even without the diesel scandal it seems like they just don't get it. Then again I was a fool and bought a top of the line '13 Jetta SEL w/Nav, which I got rid of after a year because I couldn't stand the digital-clock-quality black and white MFI with the crappy digital fuel gauge or the fact the car rattled like a mother after a year. Thought by buying top of the line I was avoiding most of the decontenting that had been done to the Jetta, and to a degree I was, but there was a lot of decontenting where your eyes couldn't see as well that was only apparent after living with the car for a bit. The Mustang has felt world-class after that.

Yeah, that pretty much sums it all up. Prior to the start of the decade VW did a great job making cars with excellent quality and a great value. I'd at a minimum like to see VW bring back the 4Motion AWD systems to their sedans... something we haven't seen in years.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,495
Kentucky
Alright, more MG news-I hope I'm not boring you all.

I mentioned in my last post that I was getting misfires/backfires like crazy, and blamed it on the new wires.

Before putting the old ones back in, I decided to give the points some attention. I sprayed them down with CRC Lectra-Motive and then used a piece of folded 600 grit sandpaper between them. I should have set the point gap and checked the dwell while I was in there, but I was mostly just trying to see some improvement. I also put a dab of di-electric grease on the distributor cam-this is an overlooked lubrication point.

Apparently this is where the problem was, as I took the car out for a test drive and even with hammering on it pretty hard(running it up to 5K, plus going up hill) I didn't notice a single misfire.

I think a new set of points is definitely in my future, as this is the second time the points have been cleaned/sanded since I bought the car(the first time was about 30 minutes after my purchase) but at least it's running well now.
 

Muscle Master

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2010
581
113
Philadelphia
Yeah, that pretty much sums it all up. Prior to the start of the decade VW did a great job making cars with excellent quality and a great value. I'd at a minimum like to see VW bring back the 4Motion AWD systems to their sedans... something we haven't seen in years.

Yeah right... so it can eat quattro sales
 

A.Goldberg

macrumors 68030
Jan 31, 2015
2,549
9,715
Boston
Yeah right... so it can eat quattro sales
They sold them alongside eachother for years upon years. As AU said, $25-30k versus $40-50k are two completely different markets.

Now that gas is cheap, most people are opting for SUVs if they want AWD, but once the prices go back up, people will return to their Subarus Legacies/Imprezas, Ford Fusions/Taurus, maybe even Volvo S60s towards the high end. It's not like VW has a remotely competitive small/compact SUV. Don't say Tiguan either...

I think VW dropped the 4Motion to keep the price of the car down and production costs in general down, not having to build an additional power train. Here in New England, you see MANY of older Passats with 4motion. People buy up cheap AWD sedans around here- the Subaru logo might as well be on the Flag of New England.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
MERCEDES-AMG GT R IN THE WORKS, NEXT E63 GETTING NEW AWD SYSTEM

More extreme GT variant to arrive by late 2016.

Though the Mercedes-AMG GT S was recently named our Best Driver’s Car, the team from Affalterbach isn’t resting on its laurels. A hotter version, called the AMG GT R, is in the works, and it’s expected to be even more potent than the S.

It’s unknown whether Nissan will raise a stink about AMG using those three letters, but the AMG GT R will be the next version of Mercedes’ new sports car. Aside from gobs more power, massive rear tires, four-wheel steering, and active aerodynamics, look for adjustable spool valve shocks — an industry first. We expect the Mercedes-AMG GT R to arrive toward the end of 2016.

In addition to the higher-spec GT, AMG is also readying the E63 variant of the upcoming W213-generation E-Class. That super sedan is expected to lose a good deal of weight thanks to the C63 and AMG GT’s twin-turbo 4.0-liter V-8 replacing the previous twin-turbo 5.5-liter V-8. Though displacement will be down from last year, we hear power will be “competitive.” The engine will be mated to a nine-speed version of AMG’s torque-converter-free SpeedShift MCT transmission, and power will be routed to all four wheels through an all-new all-wheel drive system. The current system on all-wheel-drive E63 sedans is set at a 33/67 (front/rear) torque split, but the new system will be fully variable. Expect this version of the E63 to be much more track-focused than all previous versions.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/merce...ew-awd-system/

2016-Mercedes-AMG-GT-S-Edition-1-front-three-quarter-in-motion-7.jpg
 
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iTurbo

macrumors 6502
Sep 9, 2008
316
375
I got my new engine done for the '91 Dodge Spirit R/T. Stroker crank, and a turbocharger from the Buick Grand National. The valve cover is a custom job from a friend on a car forum.

Hoping to make about 275 HP with this with 18 psi boost. 350+ lb/ft torque should be no problem. I have a custom transmission that should make the best of it, and a limited slip differential.

I'm building another one of these engines for an '87 Shelby CSX. Yes, it is a real Shelby that went to the Whittier factory in CA.
 

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senseless

macrumors 68000
Apr 23, 2008
1,887
257
Pennsylvania, USA
GXX BMW M5 expected to be xDrive only. So S6/RS6, M5, E63 AMG all going AWD. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but this turbo/horsepower war is getting pretty ridiculous.
I never thought we would see these HP numbers and still comply with emissions and fuel economy standards. But like others, I wonder if "pushing" small engine performance with turbos is going to lead to reliability issues.
 

2298754

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2010
4,890
941
GXX BMW M5 expected to be xDrive only. So S6/RS6, M5, E63 AMG all going AWD. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but this turbo/horsepower war is getting pretty ridiculous.
I'm all for forced induction at this point!

The only application where it's been questionable is replacing 6 cylinders with turbo 4s. They don't live up to the MPG ratings. But Turbo 6/8 cylinders? Yes please.
 

senseless

macrumors 68000
Apr 23, 2008
1,887
257
Pennsylvania, USA
I'm all for forced induction at this point!

The only application where it's been questionable is replacing 6 cylinders with turbo 4s. They don't live up to the MPG ratings. But Turbo 6/8 cylinders? Yes please.
Yes, right on the turbo sixes, since the typical power need is met without boost. But a tiny turbo four might be pushing and wearing too hard.
 

iTurbo

macrumors 6502
Sep 9, 2008
316
375
Some of you might not be a fan of this, but this could potentially be my next new car if it actually comes out.

Dodge Dart GLH (Goes Like Hell) at the latest SEMA show.

Here's to hoping it's got a stout turbo 4 engine, FWD (making it affordable) and a 6-speed. It better have at least 300 HP though. It seems an SRT-4 version is unlikely and this might be more of a Focus ST competitor than the Focus RS. I'm OK with that since I can't afford a Focus RS.

IMG_2772.JPG
 

puma1552

Suspended
Nov 20, 2008
5,559
1,947
Whatever project BMW and Toyota are partnering on should be great. One last hurrah before the self driving cars take hold.

as long as they let toyota design the high pressure fuel pump

i dont really see anything toyota can honestly contribute to this project other than hopefully some semblance of reliability and maybe materials quality (let's face it BMW materials aren't very good and are pretty low on the rung of germans, toyotas are probably about the same as BMWs which is good at a toyota price point, not so much at a bmw price point - bmw has let their interiors get stale for the last 10+ years, same **** over and over).

looks - dont let toyota do it
driving dynamics - don't let toyota do it
reliability - don't let bmw do it
steering feeel - don't let either of them do it
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
re: Baby NSX, S2000 Mk III

If they pursue this, it'll be interesting to see what price segment they target. I think there's some good space in the segment, above the Miata, under the Boxster, somewhere right in the domestic muscle territory, for buyers who won't do domestic, can't spend Porsche dollars, and who want reliability with a solid driving experience.

Keep it under 2900lbs, use (as has been rumored) the 300+ HP Civic Type-R Turbo 2.0, make the cockpit a little more livable (the S2K was very minimal), and price it at about $40-42K
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
re: Baby NSX, S2000 Mk III

If they pursue this, it'll be interesting to see what price segment they target. I think there's some good space in the segment, above the Miata, under the Boxster, somewhere right in the domestic muscle territory, for buyers who won't do domestic, can't spend Porsche dollars, and who want reliability with a solid driving experience.

Keep it under 2900lbs, use (as has been rumored) the 300+ HP Civic Type-R Turbo 2.0, make the cockpit a little more livable (the S2K was very minimal), and price it at about $40-42K
If they were to do this, make it an Acura. I would hope the new S2K would be cheaper.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,495
Kentucky
Keep it under 2900lbs, use (as has been rumored) the 300+ HP Civic Type-R Turbo 2.0, make the cockpit a little more livable (the S2K was very minimal), and price it at about $40-42K

It seems very strange to me to have a roadster that heavy, but I guess that's the norm now. I'd like to see the under 1 ton roadster return, but I realize modern design considerations make that more difficult. The first gen MX-5 was just barely over that, but even it's pushing 2500lbs now. The light weight is what gives a lot of the "lively" handling associated with this type of car. Granted, the older S2000s got away with weights in the 2700-2900 lb range, so it may not be a huge deal.

As for a nicer cockpit-if you consider the "classic" precedent for this type of car, spartan cockpits are the norm rather than the exception. Sure, throw in some creature comforts but to me it would be ideal if you can do so without appreciably increasing the weight.

I've been quite impressed with the S2000s I've ridden in and driven. I'd love to see it come back, although I don't know that I'd be a customer. To me, I prefer my roadsters to leak oil and would be disappointed if they don't have at least one electrical problem a week :) .
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
It seems very strange to me to have a roadster that heavy, but I guess that's the norm now. I'd like to see the under 1 ton roadster return, but I realize modern design considerations make that more difficult. The first gen MX-5 was just barely over that, but even it's pushing 2500lbs now. The light weight is what gives a lot of the "lively" handling associated with this type of car. Granted, the older S2000s got away with weights in the 2700-2900 lb range, so it may not be a huge deal.

As for a nicer cockpit-if you consider the "classic" precedent for this type of car, spartan cockpits are the norm rather than the exception. Sure, throw in some creature comforts but to me it would be ideal if you can do so without appreciably increasing the weight.

I've been quite impressed with the S2000s I've ridden in and driven. I'd love to see it come back, although I don't know that I'd be a customer. To me, I prefer my roadsters to leak oil and would be disappointed if they don't have at least one electrical problem a week :) .


Yeah, it's funny, when I was thinking, "They need to keep it under ...", I kind of hesitated before I wrote 2900lbs. I think outside of exotic materials, a car built to today's standards and expectations, i.e., airbags, emission devices, sound deadening, crash worthiness, and even in car electronics - plus, not super compact and with a decent amount of power, anything south of about 2700lbs is a stretch. The new Miata is in the 2300-sh range, but that's a very small car with tiny wheels/tires, low power.

That was clearly the design target [for the '16 Miata], but I think there's only room for one of those, and there's more room for a more feature rich roadster that's competes price wise with the 370, Mustang, maybe the Audi TT in a slightly more configured variant, but also gives you the driving dynamics of something like a Boxster S for 1/2 the price.

The previous S2K eventually faded away due to low sales, yet it was fantastic looking, had ~240 HP stock, stellar seating, awesome shifter, but at mid/upper $30s, I think people are looking for higher performance, or more content, I think it was sort of in a bad (I guess nonexistent) segment, though I wonder how many sales were lost due to it only being available in a manual? (I have no idea about transmission sales ratios for the Miata as a comparison)
 
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