The Car Thread ... !

[44267547]

GM Supplement Tangent:

Browsing cars in my area, located a 2017 Chevy SS {Green-Regal Peacock}(Automatic) approximately 40 miles from my location with 24,000 miles, one owner, $41,500. (One of maybe three SS’s I have found for sale in my state in the last six months.)

This machine is absolutely loaded with every option you could want including the LS3 motor, magnetic ride and exhaust notes alter with driving mode, Brembo’s, ect . As tempting as the car as this still is, it’s near impossible to find a manual, but it baffles me GM invested zero marketing in this car whatsoever (Given it was a Holden in Australia) . It’s almost like they intentionally knew its existence was limited to a term of three years. It’s the only other car aside from the Dodge charger that offers a four-door sedan with a V-8. Part of me almost wants to go and test drive it just for the experience and see how it influences me, because they are so rare to find, and now that they have been discontinued, they seem to be holding value steadily.

What I don’t understand, is GM’s design language. I just don’t know how to decipher the Chevy SS, it’s part Malibu and it’s part a Chevy Cruz combined together, yet no one knows about this car, At All.( Its almost reminiscent of the limited life span of G8.)Before I even purchased my SHO in August 2017, I considered a Charger Scat Pack (Which ironically I will have a New RT next week for P.P. Work Vehicle) and a Chevy SS, but I ultimately ruled the Chevy SS out because of the overall design implementation and manuals are almost Non-existent. But the more I see the Chevy SS, it’s something I’m kind of attracted to, but I find it perplexing in the same respect. But the starting MSRP for these cars starts around the $47,000, but used with low miles they drop. On a sidenote, I think some sellers are finding out that with the automatic models, they are having a tough time selling them, because nobody knows what this car is and it’s still a higher price tag that somebody could find a new car. Haggling is definitely a possibility with these cars. But for The amount of options included with this vehicle and the power, German cars are more expensive and don’t incorporate nearly as much as the SS does.

The more I ponder about the Chevy SS, Its almost relative enough to compare to the ninth Gen Impala SS from 2006 to 2009, which GM spent very little effort in actually producing a decent performance car other than sticking SS badges on it, 18 inch aluminum alloy wheels and embroidered Headrests in a front wheel drive car. (Albeit the 5.3L was a strong motor) But nobody wanted to pay the Chevy SS Impala price tag during those years, especially during the recession.

I would say the Chevy SS has to be the ultimate underrated sleeper car on the road right now, due to its non-Chalant or lack of aggressive look housing such a powerful engine. [Even more od a sleeper over the SHO, which also has very little marketing, but is in existence because of law-enforcement sales.] Speaking of which, then you look at the discontinued Chevy Caprice, which was primarily geared towards law-enforcement, which failed partially due to extended delivery dates and Ford dominating the L.E. sector.

Aside from the Camaro SS notoriety in the muscle car market, I think GM has had some really niche (Yet exhilarating, robust motors) cars that have been short-lived over the course of the last 10 years or so with the GTO, G8, Chevy SS and Impala SS. Personally which I believe is failed marketing and somewhat exorbitant prices for non-fuel efficient vehicles being replaced my turbo charge four-cylinderslide 6 cylinder engines that are equivalent, [If Not more] powerful and more fuel efficient.

Note:Once I have more hands-on with the PP RT next week (With pictures), will have a round up of my thoughts, given it was one of my Purchase considerations last year.

 

[quagmire]

The SS sedan was always meant to be a niche product. It was just here to help with the excess capacity at the Elizabeth plant in Australia. But just the next year GM announced ending Holden’s semi-autonomous operations and close the plant down.

 

[bunnspecial]

Browsing cars in my area, located a 2017 Chevy SS {Green-Regal Peacock}(Automatic) approximately 40 miles from my location with 24,000 miles, one owner, $41,500. (One of maybe three SS’s I have found for sale in my state in the last six months.)

Aside from the automatic, that's exactly what I would want.

That price seems steep to me, though. GM discounted new ones to less than that last year. Of course, now that it's gone all bets are off on price. Even though it's a niche car, it's still a GM product with 24,000 miles and I'd want to pay a fair bit less than that.

BTW, if you'd bought one there really were no "options." All the performance stuff mentioned was standard. Your choices came down to exterior color, some small tweaks on interior color, sunroof or no sunroof, and auto or manual.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Speaking of motor oil, use the one that is recommended for your car. On my Honda Fit, they recommend a motor oil with SAE 0W-20/API SN certification. I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20--the motor oil used by my Honda dealer.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I'm always amused at the fact that my convertible was a 100% UK design-i.e. a country known for its rain. Despite that, the top(or hood, rather) takes 10 minutes and a lot of sweating and grunting to put up and leaves gaps you can stick a finger out of. The top is to keep the rain from falling right on you-it doesn't keep you completely dry.

When the MGB came out in 1962, one of its advertised features was "roll up windows." It's inconceivable now that this would be a feature, but it was a big difference from side curtains that you had to install on the MGA and virtually every other British sports car from every maker of that era. I think Morgan still uses side curtains.
[doublepost=1523025600][/doublepost]

Modern convertible designs are pretty darn roll-over safe. Generally speaking, the windshield needs to support the entire weight of the car, and the headrests are designed in such a way that your head is well off the ground.

If I rolled the MG, they'd be scraping me off the road even with the top up. Fortunately, though, both then and now, convertibles tend to have a low center of gravity and are hard to roll in the first place.

My mum and her partner drove to the south of France in their MG. They had to have the roof up all the way as the boot was full of cases. Funny.
They don't have it now. Traded it in for an MX5 for reliability.

 

[bunnspecial]

My mum and her partner drove to the south of France in their MG. They had to have the roof up all the way as the boot was full of cases. Funny.
They don't have it now. Traded it in for an MX5 for reliability.

It sounds like they had a "stow-a-way" frame, which comes apart and goes in the trunk. Part of me has been tempted to hunt one down, as it gives a bit more headroom over the two different styles of folding frame. I don't want to spend the extra ~$600 to buy a top and have it fitted, though-especially since my current one is not even two years old.

With that said, the folding frame takes up the space on the parcel shelf behind the seats. You can actually fit a surprising amount back there. Also, the pre-74 1/2 models were designed to take two 6V batteries in series. Most sane people these days run a single 12V battery-it weighs less and gives you a lot more CCAs than the 6Vs available now. Some really smart guy had plastic tubs made up that fit the battery bays exactly, so you can use the now empty bay for storage. I keep tools and parts in mine.

With that said, the MX-5(or Miata as it's usually known in the US) is a solid choice. The basic chassis is Lotus derived, but the stated design goal was "Make a reliable car for people who love the MGB and related cars." They even tried to mimic the MGB exhaust note.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It sounds like they had a "stow-a-way" frame, which comes apart and goes in the trunk. Part of me has been tempted to hunt one down, as it gives a bit more headroom over the two different styles of folding frame. I don't want to spend the extra ~$600 to buy a top and have it fitted, though-especially since my current one is not even two years old.

With that said, the folding frame takes up the space on the parcel shelf behind the seats. You can actually fit a surprising amount back there. Also, the pre-74 1/2 models were designed to take two 6V batteries in series. Most sane people these days run a single 12V battery-it weighs less and gives you a lot more CCAs than the 6Vs available now. Some really smart guy had plastic tubs made up that fit the battery bays exactly, so you can use the now empty bay for storage. I keep tools and parts in mine.

With that said, the MX-5(or Miata as it's usually known in the US) is a solid choice. The basic chassis is Lotus derived, but the stated design goal was "Make a reliable car for people who love the MGB and related cars." They even tried to mimic the MGB exhaust note.

Reliability is the most important thing for me in any car choice. I've had too many unreliable cars in my past when money was tight.
If it's your second car I suppose it's a bit different, but I don't have a daily driver and a weekend toy to play with.

 

[quagmire]

Aside from the automatic, that's exactly what I would want.

That price seems steep to me, though. GM discounted new ones to less than that last year. Of course, now that it's gone all bets are off on price. Even though it's a niche car, it's still a GM product with 24,000 miles and I'd want to pay a fair bit less than that.

BTW, if you'd bought one there really were no "options." All the performance stuff mentioned was standard. Your choices came down to exterior color, some small tweaks on interior color, sunroof or no sunroof, and auto or manual.

It depends what kind of following the SS gets now that’s gone. I saw a 2009 G8 GXP go for $32K a few months ago.

 

[44267547]

That price seems steep to me

Subjective. Regardless, It sold private party at the FULL price tag at $41,500. If I was still in the market for an SS as I was last year in between my SHO/GT Purchase, I would have easily payed that, given the rarity, one owner, mileage, exact color I preferred and it was the last year it was produced in 2017.

I saw a 2009 G8 GXP go for $32K a few months ago.

I Researched KBB On this, and in excellent condition with only 10,000 miles, they sell private party for approximately $33,000 to $37,000. I even researched eBay motors and found only {ONE} 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP manual, with only 51,000 miles, and the owner is asking $28,000. I don’t think I have ever found a 2009 G8 GXP sell for anywhere near $32,000, at least in my area.

I’m not sure the details regarding the listing you observed, but I am willing to believe its extremely rare to find one (Almost near impossible) with that mileage I listed from KBB, in excellent condition and the likeliness of only one owner for that price point. You really have to be Someone who is vehement for the Pontiac G8 GXP to pay that price for a 2009 considering other market options. But there is something still intriguing about that body style that I really like with the G8, even for being a 2009, it doesn’t look horribly outdated exterior, and the interior is rather simplistic. Every buyer has their specifics of what they like or find in a performance Car.

 

[D.T.]

I Researched KBB On this, and in excellent condition with only 10,000 miles, they sell private party for approximately $33,000 to $37,000. I even researched eBay motors and found only {ONE} 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP manual, with only 51,000 miles, and the owner is asking $28,000. I don’t think I have ever found a 2009 G8 GXP sell for anywhere near $32,000, at least in my area.

Took about 45 seconds ...

 

[quagmire]

Subjective. Regardless, It sold private party at the FULL price tag at $41,500. If I was still in the market for an SS as I was last year in between my SHO/GT Purchase, I would have easily payed that, given the rarity, one owner, mileage, exact color I preferred and it was the last year it was produced in 2017.



I Researched KBB On this, and in excellent condition with only 10,000 miles, they sell private party for approximately $33,000 to $37,000. I even researched eBay motors and found only {ONE} 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP manual, with only 51,000 miles, and the owner is asking $28,000. I don’t think I have ever found a 2009 G8 GXP sell for anywhere near $32,000, at least in my area.

I’m not sure the details regarding the listing you observed, but I am willing to believe its extremely rare to find one (Almost near impossible) with that mileage I listed from KBB, in excellent condition and the likeliness of only one owner for that price point. You really have to be Someone who is vehement for the Pontiac G8 GXP to pay that price for a 2009 considering other market options. But there is something still intriguing about that body style that I really like with the G8, even for being a 2009, it doesn’t look horribly outdated exterior, and the interior is rather simplistic. Every buyer has their specifics of what they like or find in a performance Car.

Even $28,000 for one with 50K miles is still impressive for an almost 10 year old car. The G8 GXP is holding it’s value really well which was my main point.

 

[D.T.]

Even $28,000 for one with 50K miles is still impressive for an almost 10 year old car. The G8 GXP is holding it’s value really well which was my main point.

See above, not sure they'll actually _sell_ at that price, but clearly, there's some perceived "collectability" to the car (especially the 6-speed models).

 

[44267547]

Even $28,000 for one with 50K miles is still impressive for an almost 10 year old car. The G8 GXP is holding it’s value really well which was my main point.

_Aside _from being uncommon, the Pontiac Branding is obsolete. Add the rarity of the 2009 GXP model produced with the Pontiac badge, they were extremely limited and sparse on the roadway. (I saw one GXP at a C&C event two years ago, which was the only one I have observed.) Also, The GXP was introduced at the worst timing during the recession, but still Indicates there is a Pontiac enthusiast for this powerhouse of a Car, which as I mentioned before, every buyer has their specifics of what they like or find in a performance vehicle.

The 2009 G8 GXP numbers were 1,829 manufactured, most were automatics. _Allegedly_, almost half were the Tremec Six speed Manuals.

I researched a Pontiac discussion board, and I found these statistics, which I don’t know the accuracy behind them, but nonetheless, an interesting read.

http://www.g8forum.com/forums/f5/gxp-statistics-thread-623/

Sunroof equipped 1,464 (80.04%)
No Sunroof 365 (19.96%)

Onyx Interior 1,255 (68.62%)b
Onyx/Red Interior 574 (31.38%)

Automatic 983 (53.75%)
Manual 846 (46.25%)

Bridgestone Potenza Tires 1087 (59.43%)
Goodyear RS-A Tires 741 (40.51%)
Unknown 1 (.06%)

 

[bunnspecial]

Reliability is the most important thing for me in any car choice. I've had too many unreliable cars in my past when money was tight.
If it's your second car I suppose it's a bit different, but I don't have a daily driver and a weekend toy to play with.

The MG is not my main car, although in stretches of nice weather I've DDed it for a few weeks at a time.

Maintenance is an ongoing project, though. Doing preventative stuff helps a lot, but it's never going to have the absolute reliability of a modern car. I did fight with points for a while, but the current set has been in there for a year and half(since I had the distributor rebuilt) and a couple thousand miles and I haven't touched them in probably a year. For a while, I was really frustrated with a perceived lack of quality, but I was also enlightened to the fact that new points have to "bed" to the distributor cam and often need to be reset a couple of times in the first couple hundred miles. Once that's done, you're good for the life of the points. Considering that I'm running an electronic ignition that just uses the points as a switch and only runs enough current to keep the points "clean" I may not ever have to change them.

Unfortunately, condensers are a different story. They usually come as a set with the points, but the old rule of thumb use to be "it's never the condenser." The quality has REALLY gone down hill in the past 10 years, though, and many fail in a few hundred miles. I've changed a few sets of points in the past year for people locally who are terrified of the distributor, and if they look old I leave the condenser in place.

It takes some digging to find quality ignition parts for MGs(and other British cars) but they are out there. The points come from the "distributor guy", who takes commercial ones and reinforces the weak points. I found a supplier for phenolic caps with brass terminals. I use Bosch wires and NGK plugs(Champion quality has gone downhill). A lot of the rotors in circulation are black plastic with a metal rivet holding the brass terminal in place. Both of those combined can cause a voltage leak to ground at ~20KV. The "good" rotors are red plastic and use a plastic rivet-fortunately those are easy enough to find from the right source. I've used that formula on a few other cars locally and the owners seem to be happy.

The one I worked on a few weeks ago actually had an OEM Lucas red bakelite cap. The owner asked me about changing it. All I had with me was a lightweight ABS cap with aluminum terminals from Autozone, and when I showed him the difference he agreed that he'd rather have the old one. I just changed the carbon button(easy enough to do) since the old one did have some wear and did a little bit of clean-up on the terminals. I did, however, replace his black rotor with a red one. The end result was a nicely running car.

It's amazing to me that something a bit bigger than your fist causes SO many problems on these cars, but it is critical. A lot of folks are quick to blame the SU carbs, but we have a saying that 99% of "carburetor problems" are really ignition problems. That's why I carry a complete spare distributor in the car.

 

[0388631]

GXP may turn out to be one of those sought after cars in the future. Meanwhile, somewhere far away, a Pontiac Solstice is crying its guts out.

 

[elf69]

Speaking of motor oil, use the one that is recommended for your car. On my Honda Fit, they recommend a motor oil with SAE 0W-20/API SN certification. I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20--the motor oil used by my Honda dealer.

Generally yes but in my car it is best to use a different rating that the maker says.

They say use 5/30 oil but its better to use 10/40 in my country as the climate is different the the makers home country.
The owners club has made this recommendation for years and the main guy who started this was actually on the design team for the car!

some cars need different oil for different climates.
My local dealer is not aware of this and a friends car was not sounding right with the makers rated oil in it.
Once he had it changed to the right one it ran a lot quieter and smoother.

 

[44267547]

Forgot about the Solstice, Which held its own with the unique look for a two seater roadster. They were relatively popular during their early On production time frame era and the 2.4 Ecotec was enough to handle a car that only weighed in at 2,877 lbs. I never drove one, but I imagine it was similar to the Miata or even resembling the neighboring Saturn Sky variant.

And there was the limited GXP version of the Solstice, which offered the same 2.4 Ecotec engine, _turbocharged_ with around 260 HP/260 torque, increasing the experience even more with such a lightweight car.

I still see a Solstice and Saturn sky roaming around every once in a while, But I think it was with just a simple, fun car for the summer months with a manual droptop.

Edit: Researched the GXP version of the Solstice with the Sport tuned suspension, and 0-60 time was approximately six seconds.

_Fun Fact_: The GXP model offered a specifc computer tune from GM with additional sensors, which would increase the horsepower to 290/[340 torque]. Which if I had owned the GXP Solstice, undoubtedly I would take advantage the tune, as those are significant increases, especially given the added _torque_, and it would not void the manufacturer warranty attached being offered through GM directly.

 

[bunnspecial]

On my Honda Fit, they recommend a motor oil with SAE 0W-20/API SN certification. I use Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-20--the motor oil used by my Honda dealer.

I am not an engineer, but at least in the US, CAFE has driven a push toward lighter and lighter oils. I think some Hondas now spec 0W-16.

When a car specs a super lightweight oil, I like to dig in to the owners manual where there is usually a chart that lists different weights of oil for different conditions. In most cases, they will spec a heavier oil both for "severe" service(almost every drives under "severe" conditions if they use the car for commuting) and will also vary depending on temperature.

FoMoCo has specced 5W-20 in passenger cars for years, but not too long ago back-specced a whole bunch of cars to 5W-30 as the standard oil. My car was one of those covered. Also, that is a grade listed in the owner's manual.

I was running 5W-30 before they "officially" endorsed it as the "standard" oil, and I was glad that they confirmed my choice.

 

[quagmire]

And there was the limited GXP version of the Solstice, which offered the same 2.4 Ecotec engine, _turbocharged_ with around 260 HP/260 torque, increasing the experience even more with such a lightweight car.

The Solstice GXP/Sky Redline used a 2.0T, not a 2.4T.

Anyway..... GM revealed the refresh of the Camaro. The SS gains the 10 speed auto and they added the 1LE to the 2.0T. As for the design..... All I have to say is yuck to the SS at least. The RS design isn't too bad.... The 2.0T/V6 model design seems to have a front end more influenced by the 1st gen Camaro and the SS gains Bumblebees TF5 design which I do not like. GM can't do refreshes to save their lives. I didn't like the 5th gen Camaro's refresh and hate the 6th gens refresh......I'll keep my 2017 thank you.

 

[44267547]

The Solstice GXP/Sky Redline used a 2.0T, not a 2.4T.

Correction, the Solstice was the 2.0. Which, Even more impressive with a 2.0L that can produce 290HP/340TQ with a factory Turbo tune upgrade.

Anyway..... GM revealed the refresh of the Camaro.

The newer Camaro design was always a combination of like and dislike for me, but this refresh is simply unattractive from the front. The headlights were fine before, and now they had to add this extended LED bar further into the Grill looks completely awkward, which it doesn’t need. I like SS two tone bumper With the black insert and blue combination, but why did GM have to place the Chevy logo in the middle of the bumper? (Rhetorical) They couldn’t just leave the Chevy logo in the Grill insert? Its like they were trying to be overly _stylish_.

The RS silver Camaro pictured from that angle makes it look even worse, its like its way more sloped downward, yet; the Chevy logo is embedded into the Grill, unlike the SS version.

And the 2017 tail-lamps to me were more attractive, but the new rounded look seems more conservative.

I do like The Camaro powerplant and the addition of the ten speed for the automatic, but the design patterns is why I won’t consider a Camaro for a purchase in the future.

Overall I agree with you, the 2017 SS looks much better compared to this refresh, which to stay the least, perhaps ‘awkward’ is the best way to describe this re-design or simply out of place.

 

[D.T.]

The Solstice GXP/Sky Redline used a 2.0T, not a 2.4T.

Anyway..... GM revealed the refresh of the Camaro. The SS gains the 10 speed auto and they added the 1LE to the 2.0T. As for the design..... All I have to say is yuck to the SS at least. The RS design isn't too bad.... The 2.0T/V6 model design seems to have a front end more influenced by the 1st gen Camaro and the SS gains Bumblebees TF5 design which I do not like. GM can't do refreshes to save their lives. I didn't like the 5th gen Camaro's refresh and hate the 6th gens refresh......I'll keep my 2017 thank you.

Right, the 2.0T on the GXP and Redline flavors ... I guess that was a cut-and-paste error I looked at (drove a few) a Solstice GXP (the Redline design was too gimmicky, but did drive one just to cross check), did a lot of things right, didn't have the razor sharp feel of the S2K, but was kind of quick, good potential for tuning (got to love factory FI), needed another gear. The top mechanism was bad, zero storage, ultimately it mostly had the factory FI going for it.

I *love* the new tail lights, front end is kind of a coin toss.

 

[quagmire]

The newer Camaro design was always a combination of like and dislike for me, but this refresh is simply unattractive from the front. The headlights were fine before, and now they had to add this extended LED bar further into the Grill looks completely awkward, which it doesn’t need. I like SS two tone bumper With the black insert and blue combination, but why did GM have to place the Chevy logo in the middle of the bumper? (Rhetorical) They couldn’t just leave the Chevy logo in the Grill insert? Its like they were trying to be overly _stylish_.

The RS silver Camaro pictured from that angle makes it look even worse, its like its way more sloped downward, yet; the Chevy logo is embedded into the Grill, unlike the SS version.

And the 2017 tail-lamps to me were more attractive, but the new rounded look seems more conservative.

I do like The Camaro powerplant and the addition of the ten speed for the automatic, but the design patterns is why I won’t consider a Camaro for a purchase in the future.

Overall I agree with you, the 2017 SS looks much better compared to this refresh, which to stay the least, perhaps ‘awkward’ is the best way to describe this re-design or simply out of place.

I am actually growing to like the RS refresh. It actually reminds me of one of the designs considered for the 5th gen where it was more retro and true in nature to the 1st gen Camaro vs the modern interpretation that we ended up with( which I actually love the looks of the 5th gen, so I am glad they went with the modern interpretation).

As for the SS.... All it needs is some small tweaks and it doesn't look too bad either.... Someone photoshopped the bar to be body colored and the "flowtie" moved to the upper grille insert.

Heck it doesn't look that bad with just the flowtie being in the grille( another photoshop).

I would need to get it in black to like the refresh SS....But I do dig the new wheel design though.

 

[2298754]

Wow, the facelifted Camaro is gorgeous! Love the blue one and the new headlights. Very aggressive.

 

[44267547]

I am actually growing to like the RS refresh. It actually reminds me of one of the designs considered for the 5th gen where it was more retro and true in nature to the 1st gen Camaro vs the modern interpretation that we ended up with( which I actually love the looks of the 5th gen, so I am glad they went with the modern interpretation).

As for the SS.... All it needs is some small tweaks and it doesn't look too bad either.... Someone photoshopped the bar to be body colored and the "flowtie" moved to the upper grille insert.

Heck it doesn't look that bad with just the flowtie being in the grille( another photoshop).

I would need to get it in black to like the refresh SS....But I do dig the new wheel design though.

I also do like the new 2018 Wheel design of as well. They’re not too over-the-top, and not to Mundane either. (I saw your winter wheel set up for 2017, but don’t recall what your stock wheels look like for your Camaro.)

Also, I looked at other pictures of the 2018 refresh and there are a few minor details that I liked with the 2017 model better. For example on the 2017, I like that the SS emblem is on the bottom half of the grill, and now they relocated the SS symbol to the upper half of the grill, near the Chevy symbol, which looks clustered with such a thin Grill compared to the massive bottom Grill. I Just prefer the separation of the Chevy logo and SS emblem. (Pictured below)

Also, I just don’t care for the new headlights on the 2018 Camaro, _more specifically_, the extension of the LED bar leading into the grill insert, strange symmetry. The 2017 headlamps are more uniform.



Another observation, the new 2018 refreshed Camaro tail lamps are more bulbous, which as I mentioned before is more conservative, but I do like the 2017 taillamps better, which seemingly are More sporty if you will. But either way, I’m neutral to the new tail lamps on the 2018, and they are fitting, I just like the 2017 in preference.





But honestly, it’s really hard to make a judgment based off photos, I would have to see a 2018 Camaro in person to make a fair evaluation. Seeing a car with pictures never suffices to actually see what a Car looks like in person most times.

 

[0388631]

Forgot about the Solstice, Which held its own with the unique look for a two seater roadster. They were relatively popular during their early On production time frame era and the 2.4 Ecotec was enough to handle a car that only weighed in at 2,877 lbs. I never drove one, but I imagine it was similar to the Miata or even resembling the neighboring Saturn Sky variant.

They weren't the worst GM cars. While I reminded you of the Solstice, you reminded me of the Sky. I believe they're very much the same vehicle under the shell. They have a niche following of people who stick crate motors and aftermarket transmissions in them. There's a couple companies out there that do the conversion. Likewise, there's a few companies out there that'll stick a crate motor in a Miata. Matt, that Lexus bloke, had some company on last year or the year before with their Miata conversion.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I can't remember if it was the Sky or the Solstice that saw a spur of buyers around the recession. It wasn't enough to save either company, though. I'm leaning on the Sky because it makes the most sense and people were enamored with its good looks.

I know several people through various car boards who bought one as a fun weekend car. Most of them still have theirs.
[doublepost=1523307320][/doublepost]The facelifted Camaro doesn't look very good. Sarcasm aside, that metallic blue looks good. Just not on that car.