The Car Thread ... !

[quagmire]

I also do like the new 2018 Wheel design of as well. They’re not too over-the-top, and not to Mundane either. (I saw your winter wheel set up for 2017, but don’t recall what your stock wheels look like for your Camaro.)

Also, I looked at other pictures of the 2018 refresh and there are a few minor details that I liked with the 2017 model better. For example on the 2017, I like that the SS emblem is on the bottom half of the grill, and now they relocated the SS symbol to the upper half of the grill, near the Chevy symbol, which looks clustered with such a thin Grill compared to the massive bottom Grill. I Just prefer the separation of the Chevy logo and SS emblem. (Pictured below)

Also, I just don’t care for the new headlights on the 2018 Camaro, _more specifically_, the extension of the LED bar leading into the grill insert, strange symmetry. The 2017 headlamps are more uniform.

View attachment 757576

Another observation, the new 2018 refreshed Camaro tail lamps are more bulbous, which as I mentioned before is more conservative, but I do like the 2017 taillamps better, which seemingly are More sporty if you will. But either way, I’m neutral to the new tail lamps on the 2018, and they are fitting, I just like the 2017 in preference.


View attachment 757577


But honestly, it’s really hard to make a judgment based off photos, I would have to see a 2018 Camaro in person to make a fair evaluation. Seeing a car with pictures never suffices to actually see what a Car looks like in person most times.

These are my stock rims.

I was leaning towards the gray painted version of these wheels to better match the gray paint, but I was thinking long term that if I ever nicked the wheels or the paint started peeling due to age, the silver would hide it better than the gray. Plus gives the car some contrast in color.

For the SS, I definitely prefer the pre-facelift version. I wouldn't change anything about the exterior looks besides I wish MRR made the 1LE replica's in the stock 20x8.5 and 20x9.5 sizes( I really dig the 1LE's rims). I just don't want the wheels to stick out of the fenders flinging rocks against the paint.

But again more I look at it, the more I prefer the refreshed-RS. The pre-refresh RS always looked cheap to me. Maybe it was the chrome that ruined the looks, but I just didn't like it as I like the SS's front end. Take the pre-refresh rear and combine the refresh RS, would have a good looking V6 Camaro.

Pre-refresh RS.

The non-RS front end looks even cheaper. One of the things I liked about the 5th gen was the fact the non-RS models didn't look like crap. They had halogen reflectors, but the car still looked good with them. Only way to really spot a stripper was by the wheels.I am curious to what the refreshed non-RS models look like.

 

[bunnspecial]

The Solstice/Sky is an interesting car. I don't know if comparing to a Miata is necessarily favorable.

As a sports car, it's on the heavy side and also just a bit large(if you use the Miata as the current sports car measuring stick). Still, though, the FMR layout makes it a nice handling car-it's just not as "tossable" as Miata or other sports car built in tradition that it continues.

 

[0388631]

That was in fact one of the complaints people had about either car. I suppose if you invested money into them, they'd be better. I've been following Mazda news for a while and it looks like the 2019 Miata is getting a nice power bump. The new 6 is an interesting car.

If we can swim back to the oil conversation... Can two exact weight/viscosity oils from two different manufacturers (synthetic) be noticeably different? I ask because IIRC you're a chemical engineer or a chemicals scientist (I could very well be thinking of someone else!). Is it like gas? 93 in some states is terrible and great in others. Is that down to refinement or how the station's tanks are set up (see: not maintained)?

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm a chemist-not a chemical engineer!

That aside, you have a couple of things going on with oil.

First of all, viscosity is specified as a range for a given weight of oil, and even within one grade the viscosity can vary. As a general rule of thumb, within a given product line and/or manufacturer, oils specified as "high mileage" will be on the upper end of the viscosity allowed for the specified weight and oils labeled for fuel economy will be on the lower end for a given grade. The "plain" stuff falls somewhere in between these two extremes. BTW, by "plain stuff" I mean oils like regular silver bottle Mobil 1 vs. the high mileage version of the same.

Beyond that, you have the base stock from which its derived. I don't split too many hairs over this with any quality oil.

Finally, you have the additives. These broadly fall into two classes-detergents and anti-wear additives. The function of anti-wear additives is obvious. Detergents are a bit less intuitive-essentially what they do is serve to scavenge wear particles, combustion by-products and other "crud" in the engine and keep it in suspension until it's either pulled out by the filter(for large stuff) or the oil is changed. You also have some additional chemistry going on in the form of buffers in the oil-combustion gases tend to make the oil acidic, and the oil needs to have additives to counteract that.

In any case, at least in America the API publishes standards for all of these things. For gasoline engines, every standard is lettered with a two-letter code starting with S. The oldest is SA, which essentially is straight mineral oil(SA oils are still available for certain purposes where detergents can actually cause problems, like old splash lubricated engines). The current standard is SN, and standards are supposed to be backwards compatible(i.e. an engine that specifies SJ oil can safely use SN).

With that said, the standards also sometimes include a maximum allowable amount of certain additives. There's been a fair bit of controversy within certain car communities in the past several years about how recent API specs have reduced the allowed amount of a group of AW additives called ZDDP(zinc dialkyldithiophosphates). These compounds are considered essential for wear protection in flat tappet engines, but the phosphorous can "poison" catalytic converters. Those of us with flat tappet engines(BMC B engines like the ones in my MGB fall in that category) will often specifically buy non-API rated oils that have "appropriate" amounts of ZDDP. I favor Valvoline VR-1, although just as many people like Brad Penn(Kendall). Amsoil and some of the other boutique makers also make high zinc oils.

Certain types of oil can also contain different mixes of additives. I've run diesel engine oil in my MG before. Many diesel engines still have flat tappets(plus there are a LOT of older ones still in service) so there is plenty of ZDDP. Diesel engines also tend to be fairly "dirty" so diesel oils often have fairly robust detergent and buffering packages.

Avoiding those, though, even mainstream oils from reputable makers marketed for gas engines might not carry an API rating for various reasons. Mobil 1 High Mileage, for example, doesn't carry an API rating. I've been told that the seal conditions and some of the other additives that make it a "high mileage" oil bump it out of qualifying for any current API rating.

In any case, that's the rambling I can come up with.

 

[44267547]

These are my stock rims.

I was leaning towards the gray painted version of these wheels to better match the gray paint, but I was thinking long term that if I ever nicked the wheels or the paint started peeling due to age, the silver would hide it better than the gray. Plus gives the car some contrast in color.

For the SS, I definitely prefer the pre-facelift version. I wouldn't change anything about the exterior looks besides I wish MRR made the 1LE replica's in the stock 20x8.5 and 20x9.5 sizes( I really dig the 1LE's rims). I just don't want the wheels to stick out of the fenders flinging rocks against the paint.

But again more I look at it, the more I prefer the refreshed-RS. The pre-refresh RS always looked cheap to me. Maybe it was the chrome that ruined the looks, but I just didn't like it as I like the SS's front end. Take the pre-refresh rear and combine the refresh RS, would have a good looking V6 Camaro.

Pre-refresh RS.

The non-RS front end looks even cheaper. One of the things I liked about the 5th gen was the fact the non-RS models didn't look like crap. They had halogen reflectors, but the car still looked good with them. Only way to really spot a stripper was by the wheels.I am curious to what the refreshed non-RS models look like.

1.) I like the Nightfall Gray metallic paint with your 2SS paired with the 20” split spoke wheels. It’s not too flashy or some off vibrant color, but neutral enough where it looks really sleek. If those wheels were in gunmetal gray or a darker tone, that would be really nice looking. Your SS looks showroom condition, Assuming it has the Ceramic coating on it in the above picture.

(_Also_, just Now having the GT finishing with the Ceramic coating. Will have it next back next week finally).

2.) I much prefer the 2017 SS over the 2018 SS looks. Again, I would have to see one in person to make a fair evaluation, I just don’t care for the new headlights with the LED bar extension into the grill. But those New wheels on the prior pictures you posted look really nice in steel gray.

3.) As for the refreshed RS in comparison to the pre-refresh RS, I completely agree with the chrome that cheapens the look to it. I’m sure you have read my remarks before, but I can’t stand chrome on a sports car. (At least to much of it in the sense) And a black, big bold grill that has chrome strips has no place in a muscle car to me. I’m confident GM was trying to separate the overall stance between the RS and SS.

If I was an RS owner with the pre-refresh model with the chrome strips in the top and bottom Grill, I would either have that blacked out or completely deleted. But if I had to choose between the new refresh or previous RS, then I would choose the new RS simply because I don’t like the previous RS grill/chrome strips, compared to the new honeycomb grill that they used.

I always find it interesting to see how much more emphasized the V8 versions of a car are much more better looking over the V-6 versions in terms of enhancements like no chrome, wider grills, etc. Its all minor details that make the big difference.

I do like the darker wheels in the blue RS pictured above. Back to My first point, if those wheels were on your to 2SS, that would be stellar looking.

4.) As far as _performance_ is concerned, I do like the GM added the 10 speed automatic. In comparison, I would like to drive the 2018 mustang GT with a 10 speed auto to the SS 10 speed automatic, and see how they both perform in that respect. So I will give GM much credit for the addition.

@Zenithal. I agree the refreshed Camaro isn’t as appealing. Quagmires 2017 Would my preference in body style with the Grill, headlamps, rear tail-lamps, ect.

 

[0388631]

Sorry! I quoted what stood out to me, but thanks for explaining old school oils for older engines for me. While I've worked on quite a few engines in my life I've never thought about that stuff and simply went by the book. When you say poison catalytics do you mean ruin them to the point where they don't do their jobs?

First of all, viscosity is specified as a range for a given weight of oil, and even within one grade the viscosity can vary. As a general rule of thumb, within a given product line and/or manufacturer, oils specified as "high mileage" will be on the upper end of the viscosity allowed for the specified weight and oils labeled for fuel economy will be on the lower end for a given grade. The "plain" stuff falls somewhere in between these two extremes. BTW, by "plain stuff" I mean oils like regular silver bottle Mobil 1 vs. the high mileage version of the same.

Beyond that, you have the base stock from which its derived. I don't split too many hairs over this with any quality oil.

Finally, you have the additives. These broadly fall into two classes-detergents and anti-wear additives. The function of anti-wear additives is obvious. Detergents are a bit less intuitive-essentially what they do is serve to scavenge wear particles, combustion by-products and other "crud" in the engine and keep it in suspension until it's either pulled out by the filter(for large stuff) or the oil is changed. You also have some additional chemistry going on in the form of buffers in the oil-combustion gases tend to make the oil acidic, and the oil needs to have additives to counteract that.

Okay, so if I understand correctly, the higher mileage stuff is more viscous for obvious reasons but also because it allows more room for breakdown wherein it gets thinner? Do the detergents react with particulates and encapsulate them in a gel or is oil detergent not that advanced? And I suspect those buffering additives reduce oil acidity to prevent premature surface wearing of moving parts in terms of pitting and such?
[doublepost=1523347047][/doublepost]

@Zenithal. I agree the refreshed Camaro isn’t as appealing. Quagmires 2017 Would my preference in body style with the Grill, headlamps, rear tail-lamps, ect.

Yes. I think GM took a Ford and made it a tad too soft here and there to entice those who prefer European styling. It's an odd duck. So far the redesign is being panned. Quigglydoodle's Camaro harks back to the old school Camaros, skipping the rooster beaked models. Definitely see some Corvair inspired design, too. High shoulders, boxy, masculine. The new Camaro redesign is too funky for me.

Probably why I like the Challengers so much. The design is just perfect. No sarcasm. Love the old school retro look.

 

[D.T.]

Probably why I like the Challengers so much. The design is just perfect. No sarcasm. Love the old school retro look.

Yes please.

 

[quagmire]

1.) I like the Nightfall Gray metallic paint with your 2SS paired with the 20” split spoke wheels. It’s not too flashy or some off vibrant color, but neutral enough where it looks really sleek. If those wheels were in gunmetal gray or a darker tone, that would be really nice looking. Your SS looks showroom condition, Assuming it has the Ceramic coating on it in the above picture.

That picture is from when I just got it home from the dealer and only had 9 miles on it. No ceramic coating yet( took 4 months and an egg to get it done ).

Yes. I think GM took a Ford and made it a tad too soft here and there to entice those who prefer European styling. It's an odd duck. So far the redesign is being panned. Quigglydoodle's Camaro harks back to the old school Camaros, skipping the rooster beaked models. Definitely see some Corvair inspired design, too. High shoulders, boxy, masculine. The new Camaro redesign is too funky for me.

Probably why I like the Challengers so much. The design is just perfect. No sarcasm. Love the old school retro look.

Even aesthetically, Camaro and Mustang over Challenger( pre-refresh Camaro at least). I like the modern interpretation of the retro designs of their respective 1st gens over the outright retro design of the Challenger.

Then you have the fact the Challenger is the last actual muscle car true to its nature( nothing wrong with that). That doesn't appeal to me. It will be interesting though what happens when the Challenger moves to the Guilia's platform and off that ancient LX/Mercedes E Class platform.

 

[bunnspecial]

When you say poison catalytics do you mean ruin them to the point where they don't do their jobs?

A typical 3-way catalytic converter has platinum, palladium, and rhodium on the ceramic "honeycomb". Of course, the platinum and palladium serve as oxidizing catalysts to reduce CO to CO2 and unburned hydocarbons to CO2 and H2O(air is also pumped into the exhaust to provide a source of oxygen). The rhodium serves to reduce NOx compounds to N2 gas. With a solid phase catalyst like this(really, by definition, any catalyst) the idea is that the exhaust gases pass over the substrate, do their reaction, and then go on out the tailpipe and free the catalyst to go to go to work again.

Certain compounds, however, rather than treating the catalytic converter substrate as a catalyst will react with it. Once an atom of Pd/Pd/Rh has reacted with something, it's no longer available to serve as a catalyst. ZDDP is one of these compounds that can do that. From the first time a new catalytic converter is used, this phenomenon starts happening, but the goal is to minimize it to maximize the life of a catalytic converter. All catalytic converters eventually have to be replaced if they are going to be effective, but most folks won't notice/do it unless they live in a state with emissions testing and their car fails an emissions test. I can't find the exact citation, but I've been told that manufacturers are required to warranty all emissions equipment for 10 years/100,000 miles, so it's desirable to spec things like oil that won't cause premature failure(especially if it can be done without penalizing the car's performance).

BTW, ALL engines made in the past ~65 years burn oil to some extent. Even on a fresh, "tight" engine there will be some blow-by past the piston rings. The crankcase ventilation system is responsible for scavenging this and feeding it back into the intake, and it will always contain some amount of oil(although the internal oil separators try to minimize this, and external catch cans go one step further).

Okay, so if I understand correctly, the higher mileage stuff is more viscous for obvious reasons but also because it allows more room for breakdown wherein it gets thinner? Do the detergents react with particulates and encapsulate them in a gel or is oil detergent not that advanced? And I suspect those buffering additives reduce oil acidity to prevent premature surface wearing of moving parts in terms of pitting and such?

The main reason high mileage oils tend to be higher viscosity is because high mileage engines tend to leak more oil than new engines. That's just something that comes with wear from running a long time. More viscous oils are less likely to leak. Most "high mileage" oils say 75,000 miles or more. The necessity of them is questionable. If nothing else, it's better than dumping 20W-50 into an engine that specs 5W-30 to stop oil leaks(as one former poster on this forum use to do).

The detergents work on the same principle as detergents that you use around your house. If you use Dawn to wash grease off a pan, the lipophilic parts of the detergent interact with the grease while the hydrophilic parts of the molecule interact with the water. They form something called a micelle that "encapsulates" tiny little blobs of grease. Detergents in motor oil work on the same principle, except that the chemistry is somewhat different. They need to lipophilc to stay in the oil, and the lipophobic part needs to be able to interact with whatever the contaminant is.

As far as buffering acidity-remember that all engines have blow-by. One combustion by-product is various NOxs, especially under lean conditions, and these dissolve in the water(also in combustion gases) to give nitric and nitrous acids. The same thing happens in diesel engines, except that SOxs are more of a problem and they give sulfuric and sulfurous acids. Most metals don't tend to do well in acidic conditions, and acidic oil can cause pitting and other corrosion on other acidic surfaces.

 

[44267547]

The back history of this post is I considered purchasing a 2017 Dodge Charger RT back in August 2017. Ultimately I settled on a Ford Taurus SHO. AWD Charger RT PP Package, which includes larger breaks, tuned suspension, ect.

Current thoughts completion of second shift:

_Impressed_. I don’t regret my Purchase for the SHO, but I will say many like to knock Dodge for lack of quality and/or monotonous design, The performance with the 5.7 AWD is more than enough power to move. The big factor is the all-wheel-drive option, which is now only available with the V8 L.E. Edition. It Makes a huge difference how the vehicle handles from a stop and certainly feels like there is more than 370 HP with heavy acceleration when cornering and handles body roll fairly well for a large four door sedan, given it weighs in at 5,300 Lbs (PP version weighs additional).

[Although, I would still consider the Scat pack (Or) SRT over the RT if I was still in the market for a Charger.]

One of my favorite things about the Charger is the LED strip that surrounds the headlight. I think Dodge executed the headlights, their sleek, aggressive and one of the nicer factors from the previous 2014 model headlamps.


LED tail-lamps are nice, but somewhat overly bright.

5.7/5 Speed automatic. 370 HP/395Torque. One under-rated point of this engine is the sound is very guttural and Burley, it has an excellent note you can hear inside the cabin, just as well outside the vehicle when accelerating. I will say I don’t think the shifts with the transmission are smooth as they could be, but perhaps it’s just because I’m not acclimated to the vehicle enough yet.

 

[bunnspecial]

Revisiting motor oil...since I mentioned Wal-Mart Supertech earlier.

I'm trying to solve an oil disappearing problem on the MG, and in the mean time have been feeding it cheap stuff until I can find and fix the issue. At $12 for a 5-quart jug, Super Tech fits the bill. I stopped in to get some, and decided to take a few photos.

First of all, here's the line-up of conventional

I actually didn't realize it, but they also sell a Supertech branded full synthetic for $16/5 qt.

I'll pause for a moment and point out that the front of the bottle is labeled Dexos-2, which is a GM spec.

As they say, though, the proof is in the pudding, or in the doughnut in this case. When you flip the bottle around, it has the API "Donut" on it specifying this as an SN rated oil.

The conventional also carries the API Donut

For probably 95% or better of the cars on the road at least in the US, this would be a perfectly good oil to use. Of course, ALWAYS read your owner's manual as your car may call for additional certifications aside from API SN(or whatever preceeding specification) and a quick read shows that the only one of these it meets is Dexos-2(there may be others buried).

Also, it's worth mentioning as long as this oil meets the specifications the owner's manual states and is changed in accordance with the schedule, it can not-by law-be grounds for denying a warranty claim. I say that with the caveat that if a manufacturer requires that a dealer change the oil, they must provide that service for free(or included it in the service price, I should say) during the warranty period. So, with that in mind, if you buy a new car and it includes free oil changes for the warranty, USE THEM(I think that my mom's Buick came with that when she bought it a few years ago-I know she still doesn't have to pay for oil changes).

That specific situation aside, though, this is a good oil at a great price.

 

[44267547]

Barrett Jackson auction in Palm Beach launches today through Sunday. Looking forward to seeing all the Resto-Mods.

Here is the preview schedule if anyone is interested in tuning in:

https://azure.barrett-jackson.com/E...ach-2018/fda861c1-a373-4fa5-9a85-7259e44f5aa3

 

[bunnspecial]

Just to ramble a bit more on the Wal-Mart Supertech, and also to point out some other things that anyone would be served to look for when looking for a motor oil:

1. Both the conventional and synthetic have what is often called the "starburst" symbol on the front of the bottle. The ring says "American Petroleum Institute Certified" and it says "For Gasoline Engines" in bold in the center.

Both this and the "donut" combined form the API certification stamp. Aside from having to meet the specs that the API has set for the service rating, the manufacturer has to pay to mark these symbols. The API has been known to pull licenses if they find an oil doesn't meet the stated specs. So, again, if you find an oil with this rating, you can be reasonably confident in it.

2. The synthetic also states ILSAC GF-5 on the back. This is a current standard that was developed jointly between the major American and Japanese makers.

Of the specs listed, DEXOS 2(or rather DEXOS 1 Gen 2) is the most stringent of these to meet.

In any case, the point of all my rambling is that you shouldn't necessarily go by brand names alone-whether good or bad. Rather, you should look at certifications and if an oil "meets or exceeds" the certifications required for your car, you can use it without worrying. Also, bear in mind that most certifications supercede previous certifications-i.e. if you have an older car that says to use API SJ oil, the API says that SN oil is perfectly fine(just be aware of some special requirements, like zinc if you have a flat tappet engine, and know that IF and ONLY IF that applies to you, you might be better served by a non-certified oil from a reputable brand).

One thing I will mention that is that ILSAC GF-6 is in development, and it will "split" into two different certifications. GF-6A will fully supercede GF-5, while GF-6B will be mostly for the ultra low viscosity oils(0W-16 and the like) that will soon be specced for some Japanese cars.

Of course, even when two oils meet the same certification, one can be "better" than the other in some aspect. From what I can find, SuperTech synthetic is a mix of Group II and Group III oils. Both of these are derived from crude base stock, but have been cracked and otherwise treated to make the behave "better." Mobil 1 is mostly Group III and Group IV-group IV is "synthetic" in the classical sense in that it is synthesized ester rather than a cracked, modified, and purified crude. Both of these are still better than full blown conventional oils, which are generally Group I and Group II(syn-blends may have some group III also).

From what I can find, the Supertech DEXOS 2 is one of the most stringent specs, but an oil that meets the current MB or VW specs has at least been tested more extensively than one that meets DEXOS 2.

I still use Mobil-1, but I'd have no reservations about using Super-Tech and changing at the manufacturer specified service intervals. I also don't worry a bit when I'm changing oil at church in the fall and put it in ladies' cars.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just to ramble a bit more on the Wal-Mart Supertech, and also to point out some other things that anyone would be served to look for when looking for a motor oil:

1. Both the conventional and synthetic have what is often called the "starburst" symbol on the front of the bottle. The ring says "American Petroleum Institute Certified" and it says "For Gasoline Engines" in bold in the center.

Both this and the "donut" combined form the API certification stamp. Aside from having to meet the specs that the API has set for the service rating, the manufacturer has to pay to mark these symbols. The API has been known to pull licenses if they find an oil doesn't meet the stated specs. So, again, if you find an oil with this rating, you can be reasonably confident in it.

2. The synthetic also states ILSAC GF-5 on the back. This is a current standard that was developed jointly between the major American and Japanese makers.

Of the specs listed, DEXOS 2(or rather DEXOS 1 Gen 2) is the most stringent of these to meet.

In any case, the point of all my rambling is that you shouldn't necessarily go by brand names alone-whether good or bad. Rather, you should look at certifications and if an oil "meets or exceeds" the certifications required for your car, you can use it without worrying. Also, bear in mind that most certifications supercede previous certifications-i.e. if you have an older car that says to use API SJ oil, the API says that SN oil is perfectly fine(just be aware of some special requirements, like zinc if you have a flat tappet engine, and know that IF and ONLY IF that applies to you, you might be better served by a non-certified oil from a reputable brand).

One thing I will mention that is that ILSAC GF-6 is in development, and it will "split" into two different certifications. GF-6A will fully supercede GF-5, while GF-6B will be mostly for the ultra low viscosity oils(0W-16 and the like) that will soon be specced for some Japanese cars.

Of course, even when two oils meet the same certification, one can be "better" than the other in some aspect. From what I can find, SuperTech synthetic is a mix of Group II and Group III oils. Both of these are derived from crude base stock, but have been cracked and otherwise treated to make the behave "better." Mobil 1 is mostly Group III and Group IV-group IV is "synthetic" in the classical sense in that it is synthesized ester rather than a cracked, modified, and purified crude. Both of these are still better than full blown conventional oils, which are generally Group I and Group II(syn-blends may have some group III also).

From what I can find, the Supertech DEXOS 2 is one of the most stringent specs, but an oil that meets the current MB or VW specs has at least been tested more extensively than one that meets DEXOS 2.

I still use Mobil-1, but I'd have no reservations about using Super-Tech and changing at the manufacturer specified service intervals. I also don't worry a bit when I'm changing oil at church in the fall and put it in ladies' cars.

Confession time. I once didn't change the oil (or service in any way) my old Ford Mondeo for about 4 years. It was my daily driver and didn't seem any worse for it.

 

[Inked]

Confession time. I once didn't change the oil (or service in any way) my old Ford Mondeo for about 4 years. It was my daily driver and didn't seem any worse for it.

My wife’s Focus (purchased 2nd hand in 2012) had its first service under our ownership lasted last year as the oil filter was so degraded that it was leaking (a lot). It had done 50k miles in that time.
I refuse to spend any more than we need to on the car as my wife managed to turn it from a nice condition car into a battered, bent and dented old workhorse within a year of buying it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

My wife’s Focus (purchased 2nd hand in 2012) had its first service under our ownership lasted last year as the oil filter was so degraded that it was leaking (a lot). It had done 50k miles in that time.
I refuse to spend any more than we need to on the car as my wife managed to turn it from a nice condition car into a battered, bent and dented old workhorse within a year of buying it.

My Mondeo was bruised and battered when I got it. I didn't have much money back then.

 

[bunnspecial]

We joke about most BMC products having "self changing oil" as a feature . Just keep adding it and you'll probably have replaced all of it in 3K anyway(of course, I do a proper oil change seasonally).

The good news is that I THINK I've solved the oil consumption problem in the MG. I've put about 100 miles on it in the last couple of days and haven't used a measureable amount anyway.

Interestingly enough, I think that the loss came down to a crankcase ventilation problem. From '69 on, MGBs didn't use a PCV valve. Instead, the front tappet cover was filled with a wire mesh to act as an oil separator, and it was then plumbed in to vents on the carburetors. Since this constantly drew a vacuum on the crankcase, you needed a source of "make up" air. This was designed to come from an elbow with a tiny hole at the back of the valve cover, and on SOME 1970 cars and all post 1970s, this elbow was connected to the "vapor recovery system"(charcoal canister, which also was connected to the gas tank vent and float bowl vents).

When I bought my car, it lacked the elbow but did have a proper 1970 style sealed oil filler cap. I spotted the problem right away, and changed to a pre-69 vented oil filler cap. That worked for a while, but unfortunately I got a used one of unknown origin(someone gave it to me) and they do not have a finite life-in fact the cap even says "replace every 12,000 miles."

I suspect that my oil filler cap had become blocked, and as a result the crankcase was under too much vacuum and it was quite literally sucking oil out through the carburetors.

I had a late valve cover lying around(it was on an engine out of a 77, I think), so I pulled that out, cut a stuck stud on it, and put it in place. I think things are fixed.

That leaves me with another project, though. The valve cover I installed had a bad rattle can silver paint job on it, and was also very dusty from sitting semi-outside halfway on an engine for a year or so. I scrubbed it with dish soap, and while I was at it decided to get the paint out of the way with some methylene chloride. I pulled off three different colors of paint(MG maroon, blue, and then silver) but also was left with a lot of surface rust. Now that I know it fixed the problem, I'll wire brush this weekend to clean up the rust and any remaining paint and then hit it with Rustoleum "Merlot"(a great match for MGB engine maroon). I have reproductions of the factory valve cover badges that I can put on it(never got around to it on my other valve cover). That only leaves me with the "tuned and maintained by University Motors Grand Rapids Michigan" badge, something which I leave on there with pride due to the garages reputation in the MG community. Of course, to make life easier, I might just call the owner(who has retired and closed the business) and ask him if he has any more.

 

[quagmire]

Just to ramble a bit more on the Wal-Mart Supertech, and also to point out some other things that anyone would be served to look for when looking for a motor oil:

1. Both the conventional and synthetic have what is often called the "starburst" symbol on the front of the bottle. The ring says "American Petroleum Institute Certified" and it says "For Gasoline Engines" in bold in the center.

Both this and the "donut" combined form the API certification stamp. Aside from having to meet the specs that the API has set for the service rating, the manufacturer has to pay to mark these symbols. The API has been known to pull licenses if they find an oil doesn't meet the stated specs. So, again, if you find an oil with this rating, you can be reasonably confident in it.

2. The synthetic also states ILSAC GF-5 on the back. This is a current standard that was developed jointly between the major American and Japanese makers.

Of the specs listed, DEXOS 2(or rather DEXOS 1 Gen 2) is the most stringent of these to meet.

In any case, the point of all my rambling is that you shouldn't necessarily go by brand names alone-whether good or bad. Rather, you should look at certifications and if an oil "meets or exceeds" the certifications required for your car, you can use it without worrying. Also, bear in mind that most certifications supercede previous certifications-i.e. if you have an older car that says to use API SJ oil, the API says that SN oil is perfectly fine(just be aware of some special requirements, like zinc if you have a flat tappet engine, and know that IF and ONLY IF that applies to you, you might be better served by a non-certified oil from a reputable brand).

One thing I will mention that is that ILSAC GF-6 is in development, and it will "split" into two different certifications. GF-6A will fully supercede GF-5, while GF-6B will be mostly for the ultra low viscosity oils(0W-16 and the like) that will soon be specced for some Japanese cars.

Of course, even when two oils meet the same certification, one can be "better" than the other in some aspect. From what I can find, SuperTech synthetic is a mix of Group II and Group III oils. Both of these are derived from crude base stock, but have been cracked and otherwise treated to make the behave "better." Mobil 1 is mostly Group III and Group IV-group IV is "synthetic" in the classical sense in that it is synthesized ester rather than a cracked, modified, and purified crude. Both of these are still better than full blown conventional oils, which are generally Group I and Group II(syn-blends may have some group III also).

From what I can find, the Supertech DEXOS 2 is one of the most stringent specs, but an oil that meets the current MB or VW specs has at least been tested more extensively than one that meets DEXOS 2.

I still use Mobil-1, but I'd have no reservations about using Super-Tech and changing at the manufacturer specified service intervals. I also don't worry a bit when I'm changing oil at church in the fall and put it in ladies' cars.

You pointed it out, but to be clear Dexos 1 gen 2 and dexos 2 are two separate specifications.

And it being stringent is right on. It’s why I went with Pennzoil Platinum over Ultra Platinum due to Ultra Platinum not being gen 2 certified( it is dexos 1 gen 1 approved though) due to failing the LPSI test.
[doublepost=1523577803][/doublepost]

My wife’s Focus (purchased 2nd hand in 2012) had its first service under our ownership lasted last year as the oil filter was so degraded that it was leaking (a lot). It had done 50k miles in that time.
I refuse to spend any more than we need to on the car as my wife managed to turn it from a nice condition car into a battered, bent and dented old workhorse within a year of buying it.

That’s fine, but regular oil changes is the cheapest thing you can do to make sure the car functions for a long time. Beater or not. It’s not that expensive and it’s certainly cheaper to do an oil change over the long term than having to replace the engine/car sooner than you had to because you didn’t do an oil change(including filter).....

Bet if you tore that engine apart, you’ll see a lot of this.....

 

[bunnspecial]

Bet if you tore that engine apart, you’ll see a lot of this.....

Run PYB for a few 3K OCIs and it will be fine

 

[A.Goldberg]

We joke about most BMC products having "self changing oil" as a feature . Just keep adding it and you'll probably have replaced all of it in 3K anyway(of course, I do a proper oil change seasonally).

If it's not leaking oil it's because all the oil has already leaked out.

Confession time. I once didn't change the oil (or service in any way) my old Ford Mondeo for about 4 years. It was my daily driver and didn't seem any worse for it.

My parents friends got divorced and the wife failed to change her oil in her XC70 for something like 40-50k. It apparently continued to run fine, but everyone urged her to buy a new car haha.

 

[44267547]

Barrett-Jackson Palm Beach Day One:

Surprised by the lack of Muscle cars/Resto-Mods there were. Perhaps its because the venue is entirely different and _considerably_ smaller over Barret-Jackson in Scottsdale. Some of these cars were selling cheap with extremely low miles:

[Fun Fact: You don’t have to attend Barrett Jackson auction’s in order to actually participate in the bidding docket, as you can do so online against the other bidders Actually present during the auction process. ]

Highlights:

1970 Torino fully restored
Sold for $37,000

Clean 1991 Honda NSX
Aluminum construction/suspension
3.0 V6/4 Speed
$40,000

1969 Camaro fully restored
$47,000


2008 Mercedes SL550 Roadster
5.5 V8
$18,000


2004 BMW 645
4.4 V8
$14,000


2007 BMW 750 LI
5.0 V8
$14,000


-I also have to relay Chip Foose truly is a demigod in the restoration industry with automobiles. That man is a true visionary, and has an eye for detail and customization like nobody else.-

 

[D.T.]

My parents friends got divorced and the wife failed to change her oil in her XC70 for something like 40-50k. It apparently continued to run fine, but everyone urged her to buy a new car haha.

A former business partner of mine - same guy who drove the topless Miata during winter - didn't change the oil _in_that_same_Miata_ for like 5 years

 

[quagmire]

A former business partner of mine - same guy who drove the topless Miata during winter - didn't change the oil _in_that_same_Miata_ for like 5 years

And this is why I am willing to eat the depreciation on new cars. I would be too concerned about the previous owner not doing basic maintenance on the car or taking it to the el cheapo quick lube places where they can’t even tie their own shoes let alone do an oil change.

 

[D.T.]

And this is why I am willing to eat the depreciation on new cars. I would be too concerned about the previous owner not doing basic maintenance on the car or taking it to the el cheapo quick lube places where they can’t even tie their own shoes let alone do an oil change.

Well, this particular car wasn't going to ever be sold, kind of a special outlier, you'd have to know the guy, he's pretty brilliant (I don't toss that term around lightly ...). Except for the whole oil change thing

One reason I use the dealer for maintenance, it goes into an easily accessed set of historical records that follow the car, so when it's sold, the next owner (be that a private sale or even just a trade) has no question about what was done when.
[doublepost=1523621771][/doublepost]Yesterday was a *beautiful* day for a cruise, I did the pick-up for the little G's dance, left early and just burned gas for an hour Mid-70s, blue skies, low-ish humidity, car was clean after the few days of crappy weather - about as good as it gets for the convertible experience. Ran across another Mustang that made mine sound tame, a couple of halfwits in, umm, "other" modern domestic one of which almost had an accident, a moment of mutual admiration with a stunning '65 Vette convertible, various honks and hoots Wasn't in a hurry - for a change - to be anywhere.

Actually playing some CDs in the car, hahaha, see the "What are you listening to" thread.

Fun.

 

[quagmire]

Well, this particular car wasn't going to ever be sold, kind of a special outlier, you'd have to know the guy, he's pretty brilliant (I don't toss that term around lightly ...). Except for the whole oil change thing

One reason I use the dealer for maintenance, it goes into an easily accessed set of historical records that follow the car, so when it's sold, the next owner (be that a private sale or even just a trade) has no question about what was done when.
[doublepost=1523621771][/doublepost]Yesterday was a *beautiful* day for a cruise, I did the pick-up for the little G's dance, left early and just burned gas for an hour Mid-70s, blue skies, low-ish humidity, car was clean after the few days of crappy weather - about as good as it gets for the convertible experience. Ran across another Mustang that made mine sound tame, a couple of halfwits in, umm, "other" modern domestic one of which almost had an accident, a moment of mutual admiration with a stunning '65 Vette convertible, various honks and hoots Wasn't in a hurry - for a change - to be anywhere.

Actually playing some CDs in the car, hahaha, see the "What are you listening to" thread.

Fun.

With GM, I can go on their website and add a maintenance record myself which I did when I changed my oil. Which is nice as I believe follows the car too and the dealer can see it, etc.