The Car Thread ... !

[bunnspecial]

Alright, the MG is mostly put back together. I'll spare the photo essay this evening since I'm too tired to put it together.

The ARP head studs and nuts had me rather frustrated initially. Normally, the 11 head nuts on an MG head are 9/16", and the four nuts on the rocker shaft are 1/2". I typically just stick a deep well impact socket on my torque wrench and go to town on the nuts.

ARP supplies 12 point nuts, while MOST nuts and bolts(automotive and otherwise) are 6 point. Many times a basic socket wrench set will have 12 point sockets as they will fit 6 point heads just fine and are easier to locate on the head. Eventually, though, many folks who turn wrenches will "upgrade" to 6 point sockets as they support the head from all sides(rather than just at the corners) and consequently make it more difficult to round off a head.

For that same reason, impact sockets(which I often use for general work) are typically 6 point.

The ARP nuts require actually using a 12 point socket, though. A 12 point nut matched with a 12 point socket is actually allows even more torque without stripping. It sent me digging, though, to find one.

Even more frustrating, head size is 7/16 for the main head studs and 5/16 for the rockers.

Still, though, after some juggling and hunting, I got it to 55 ft. lbs. and had compression on the previously "dead" cylinders. I'll also add that I'm a bit alarmed that I didn't need to consult the torque sequence cheat sheet in my tool box-I've done it enough that I know it(it's basically an "outward spiral" designed to spread the forces from the inside out.)

I was going to stop there, but couldn't leave things alone and ended up putting most of the stuff back together. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to start this evening, although I got some viscious backfires before ran the battery down. I'll try tomorrow with a charged battery...

 

[D.T.]

I think the reason the Mustang has such extreme loyalty (Aside from the heritage) and overall popularity is because of all the aftermarket sources.

The F-body aftermarket is huge, and for some things like engine parts, it's part of a larger market since there's some common components shared with the Corvette (always has been, with the LTx/LSx, the AFR heads on my '94 Corvette came from a friends Camaro).

Hit up some place like "the usual" cruising spots in Orlando on a Saturday night, and there's not a stock Camaro on the road.

 

[0388631]

That's because they're wearing protective gear and hiding from the Mustangs waiting to ram them off the road.

 

[44267547]

Arrived early. Those are some *FAT* tires by Mickey T compared to my current Pirelli set up.

The 20” charcoal GT500 wheels will look outstanding on my GT and will be a significant upgrade Over my stock 19” wheels. Should have them mounted tomorrow in preparation for C&C/this weekend‘s car shows.

 

[D.T.]

Arrived early. Those are some *FAT* tires by Mickey T compared to my current Pirelli set up.

Are they wider vs. stock[?] What are the tire specs? Staggered setup?

Here's my rear for comparison

 

[Apple fanboy]

Alright, the MG is mostly put back together. I'll spare the photo essay this evening since I'm too tired to put it together.

The ARP head studs and nuts had me rather frustrated initially. Normally, the 11 head nuts on an MG head are 9/16", and the four nuts on the rocker shaft are 1/2". I typically just stick a deep well impact socket on my torque wrench and go to town on the nuts.

ARP supplies 12 point nuts, while MOST nuts and bolts(automotive and otherwise) are 6 point. Many times a basic socket wrench set will have 12 point sockets as they will fit 6 point heads just fine and are easier to locate on the head. Eventually, though, many folks who turn wrenches will "upgrade" to 6 point sockets as they support the head from all sides(rather than just at the corners) and consequently make it more difficult to round off a head.

For that same reason, impact sockets(which I often use for general work) are typically 6 point.

The ARP nuts require actually using a 12 point socket, though. A 12 point nut matched with a 12 point socket is actually allows even more torque without stripping. It sent me digging, though, to find one.

Even more frustrating, head size is 7/16 for the main head studs and 5/16 for the rockers.

Still, though, after some juggling and hunting, I got it to 55 ft. lbs. and had compression on the previously "dead" cylinders. I'll also add that I'm a bit alarmed that I didn't need to consult the torque sequence cheat sheet in my tool box-I've done it enough that I know it(it's basically an "outward spiral" designed to spread the forces from the inside out.)

I was going to stop there, but couldn't leave things alone and ended up putting most of the stuff back together. Unfortunately, I couldn't get it to start this evening, although I got some viscious backfires before ran the battery down. I'll try tomorrow with a charged battery...

Good luck with it.
My drive set is 6 point rather than 12.

 

[bunnspecial]

Good luck with it.
My drive set is 6 point rather than 12.

Thanks!

6 point is almost always better...unless you're dealing with these oddball 12 point nuts.

BTW, I talked this afternoon to a retired GM engine engineer who now does a healthy business in high performance street and full blown racing BMC B engines(mostly for MGBs). This is the same guy who sold me the short block destined for my MGA. He dials everything to "11", and has developed his own torque specs for cylinder heads. The workshop manual originally called for a flat 50 ft-lbs across all 11 studs. This was revised to 55 ft-lbs with a TSB. Dave runs the #1 stud(front and center right between cylinders 2 and 3) up to 60 ft-lbs and then drops it down to 55ft-lbs, 50ft-lbs, and 45 ft-lbs as you work toward the very edge. I currently have all at 55 ft-lbs, but will go back and crank #1 up to 60 on his advice.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Thanks!

6 point is almost always better...unless you're dealing with these oddball 12 point nuts.

BTW, I talked this afternoon to a retired GM engine engineer who now does a healthy business in high performance street and full blown racing BMC B engines(mostly for MGBs). This is the same guy who sold me the short block destined for my MGA. He dials everything to "11", and has developed his own torque specs for cylinder heads. The workshop manual originally called for a flat 50 ft-lbs across all 11 studs. This was revised to 55 ft-lbs with a TSB. Dave runs the #1 stud(front and center right between cylinders 2 and 3) up to 60 ft-lbs and then drops it down to 55ft-lbs, 50ft-lbs, and 45 ft-lbs as you work toward the very edge. I currently have all at 55 ft-lbs, but will go back and crank #1 up to 60 on his advice.

Fascinating. I'd always assumed you would have the same across all cylinders.

Has it started at all yet?

 

[bunnspecial]

FINALLY got it started just a bit ago and drove it around the block.

It definitely is badly out of tune, but at least it's running and running better than it was. I did get it good and hot, so I can retorque the head the next time I work on it.

Unfortunately, with 80%+ RH at the moment, I'm done for the day.

 

[Apple fanboy]

FINALLY got it started just a bit ago and drove it around the block.

It definitely is badly out of tune, but at least it's running and running better than it was. I did get it good and hot, so I can retorque the head the next time I work on it.

Unfortunately, with 80%+ RH at the moment, I'm done for the day.

Thats good. Whats RH?

 

[bunnspecial]

Thats good. Whats RH?

Relative humidity.

It feels like you're swimming through the air outside.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Relative humidity.

It feels like you're swimming through the air outside.

Thats got to affect your British Sports car! It's designed to work from -2º to 15º only

 

[0388631]

@D.T. Would I be correct to assume you don't daily your GT?

 

[bunnspecial]

Thats got to affect your British Sports car! It's designed to work from -2º to 15º only

Believe it or not, MGs for the NA market have a reputation for being very much overcooled.

They have an external oil cooler sitting in front of the main radiator that really is superfluous for anywhere other than Death Valley in the summer. I actually normally run a 195º thermostat-part of it's convenience since you can quite literally walk into any auto parts store in America and buy an MGB thermostat(it's the same as a small block Chevy), but often 195º is the only thing in stock. In addition, modern oils work best at higher temperature(within reason) and it's VERY nice to have a heater that's about the strength of a rabbit fart rather than the typical mouse fart

The explanation I've heard for the oil cooler on NA cars was that BMC/BL was trying to protect us from our own stupidity. The old sloppy tractor engine wants 20W-50 or SAE 30(the latter is only speced for warm climates), while at the time 10W-30 was the defacto standard in American engines. The oil cooler was intended to hold 10W-30 to the correct viscosity, but if you're doing what the factory wants and using 20W-50, your need to really hammer on the car to get the oil hot enough to get rid of contaminants(water, gasoline) and also for the detergents to be most effective. I block the cooler with cardboard in the winter, and for folks who want to get fancy there was actually a dealer accessory aluminum blanking plate.

Of course, you also have the ills that come with an always engaged mechanical engine fan. When creeping along in traffic in the summer, you have to watch the temperature gauge. Fortunately, I've never seen it get into dangerous territory, but I watch it carefully in the summer. It's something of a perfect storm as there's no ram air, the fan isn't moving much at idle speeds, and what air is moving doesn't cool that well.

By contrast, when going down the interstate you have a power-robbing mechanical fan spinning fast when the ram air is MORE than sufficient to keep things cool despite the temperature.

1975 cars got electric fans, which for the most part were an improvement. The fans are only single speed-not continuously variable like modern cars-but none the less would only turn on when the water temperature reached 180º. In another interesting twist, NA cars had two electric fans, while home market and most European cars had a single fan.

BTW, I've always thought it funny that in a country known for being cold and rainy, "erecting the hood"(raising the top) is a 10 minute operation on an MGB if you're lucky and it's not too cold, the car isn't that water tight with the hood up, and the heater doesn't work that well.

I was once told and had to agree with some advice to prospective purchasers of British sports cars-

"If you want to know what owning and driving a classic British sports car is like, try the following: Go out on a rainy night, roll down all your windows, turn off your heater, windshield wipers, and headlights. Every time you come to an intersection, throw a $20 bill out the window. It's not quite the same experience, but it's close."

 

[0388631]

I've heard that one before.

 

[bunnspecial]

Alright, I went out for a shake-down cruise with the new head gasket.

I had a few hiccups and stopped for a few roadside adjustments, but overall things went well. Things definitely seemed to "settle in" as I drove it a bit more, and it was definitely running a lot better when I got back than when I started.

I'll still do some tuning tomorrow if I can tolerate the heat, but hopefully I'll be back to 100% soon.

 

[0388631]

The Buick all electric SUV concept looks real nice. Here's to hoping GM retains most of the styling.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Believe it or not, MGs for the NA market have a reputation for being very much overcooled.

They have an external oil cooler sitting in front of the main radiator that really is superfluous for anywhere other than Death Valley in the summer. I actually normally run a 195º thermostat-part of it's convenience since you can quite literally walk into any auto parts store in America and buy an MGB thermostat(it's the same as a small block Chevy), but often 195º is the only thing in stock. In addition, modern oils work best at higher temperature(within reason) and it's VERY nice to have a heater that's about the strength of a rabbit fart rather than the typical mouse fart

The explanation I've heard for the oil cooler on NA cars was that BMC/BL was trying to protect us from our own stupidity. The old sloppy tractor engine wants 20W-50 or SAE 30(the latter is only speced for warm climates), while at the time 10W-30 was the defacto standard in American engines. The oil cooler was intended to hold 10W-30 to the correct viscosity, but if you're doing what the factory wants and using 20W-50, your need to really hammer on the car to get the oil hot enough to get rid of contaminants(water, gasoline) and also for the detergents to be most effective. I block the cooler with cardboard in the winter, and for folks who want to get fancy there was actually a dealer accessory aluminum blanking plate.

Of course, you also have the ills that come with an always engaged mechanical engine fan. When creeping along in traffic in the summer, you have to watch the temperature gauge. Fortunately, I've never seen it get into dangerous territory, but I watch it carefully in the summer. It's something of a perfect storm as there's no ram air, the fan isn't moving much at idle speeds, and what air is moving doesn't cool that well.

By contrast, when going down the interstate you have a power-robbing mechanical fan spinning fast when the ram air is MORE than sufficient to keep things cool despite the temperature.

1975 cars got electric fans, which for the most part were an improvement. The fans are only single speed-not continuously variable like modern cars-but none the less would only turn on when the water temperature reached 180º. In another interesting twist, NA cars had two electric fans, while home market and most European cars had a single fan.

BTW, I've always thought it funny that in a country known for being cold and rainy, "erecting the hood"(raising the top) is a 10 minute operation on an MGB if you're lucky and it's not too cold, the car isn't that water tight with the hood up, and the heater doesn't work that well.

I was once told and had to agree with some advice to prospective purchasers of British sports cars-

"If you want to know what owning and driving a classic British sports car is like, try the following: Go out on a rainy night, roll down all your windows, turn off your heater, windshield wipers, and headlights. Every time you come to an intersection, throw a $20 bill out the window. It's not quite the same experience, but it's close."

Getting the roof on in the UK isn't an issue. It only comes down once or twice a year!

 

[44267547]

I know I posted a picture months back of the BBK 85 mm throttlebody I ordered, but here is a side-by-side comparison of the stock Ford 80 mm throttlebody on the left and on the right is the BBK 85 mm throttlebody. The side-by-side comparison doesn’t look much different, but the additonal 5 mm was actually rather significant just in terms of how much larger it really is. The build quality on the BBK 85 mm throttlebody was just as good, if not better than OEM with the construction, fit & finish.

{Notation: Just from reading on various sites, the stock Ford 80 mm for throttle body is reported to suffer intermittent ‘issues’ throughout 14-16 models, which allegedly Ford does not/has not acknowledged, so I’m content that I upgraded the throttlebody To avoid any concerns}.

Without having any type of dyno-numbers, BBK claims that you receive an additional 10–15 HP, which many have commented that it’s even more so significantly noticed if you have a tune, which I actually previously had a Bama tune, but converted over to Lund back in March.

My initial thoughts are I can definitely feel the throttle response and I can actually audibly hear the throttle body ‘Gulping’ more Air.

The only downside is when I converted throttle bodies, the ECU has to adapt a re-learn process, which I also had to uninstall my Lund tune and then have it reinstalled after the re-learn was complete, kind of inconvenient, but Lund walks you through it. [Also, Lund has superb customer service via email, and you can have a very derailed response within less than 30 minutes in most cases.]

Installed. Perfect fitment. BBK delivered.

(Minor detail, but the BBK 85 mm throttlebody looks *So* much better over the stock 80 mm for throttlebody under the Hood).

 

[D.T.]

@D.T. Would I be correct to assume you don't daily your GT?

I don't, but I don't daily anything

Just from reading on various sites, the stock Ford 80 mm for throttle body is reported to suffer intermittent ‘issues’ throughout 14-16 models, which allegedly Ford does not/has not acknowledged, so I’m content that I upgraded the throttlebody To avoid any concerns.

Without having any type of dyno-numbers, BBK claims that you receive an additional 10–15 HP, which many have commented that it’s even more so significantly noticed if you have a tune, which I actually previously had a Bama tune, but converted over to Lund back in March.

S550 owners: there's no recurring issues with 15-17 TBs, and FWIW, the BBK gains ~5HP with a tune, the GT350 is 87mm and can be sourced for ~$130 through partner Ford part dealers, there's a couple of companies making adapters for $49-59

 

[0388631]

I'd like to compliment RP for having a clean bay and clean components. I always appreciate cleanliness.

 

[bunnspecial]

Is there really a performance gain to be had from using a throttle body 13% larger?

This isn't the old days where you have a 400 CID or larger V8 with a 2 barrel carb, and you threw a Holley 650 on it and pulled a lot more power out of. In general, especially on performance cars, the intake is pretty carefully engineered to provide an optimum amount of airflow to the engine. Even if moving to one slightly larger opens up top end horsepower, "there's no such thing as a free lunch" and it often comes at a cost of low end power.

IF you do other things to the engine that involve moving substantially more air through it, going to a larger intake makes sense. Increasing displacement isn't that common anymore, and I don't know if folks do cam swaps on OHC-unlike an OHV engine, it seems a nightmare since-on a DOHC V engine-you'd have to change 4 cams. About the only thing left is forced induction.

 

[D.T.]

IF you do other things to the engine that involve moving substantially more air through it, going to a larger intake makes sense. Increasing displacement isn't that common anymore, and I don't know if folks do cam swaps on OHC-unlike an OHV engine, it seems a nightmare since-on a DOHC V engine-you'd have to change 4 cams. About the only thing left is forced induction.

They do, but it's uncommon - mostly it's people who are interested in exploring the max NA out, since it' not cost effective vs. the return. A set of (4) cams for a Coyote is like $1400 and that's a $1100-1300 install, and if you're going with most aftermarket cams, you really need to go with a completely different induction (intake>TB>manifold ... $700-1300, might require lowering the engine, etc), fuel system updates, probably way more RPM so factor in a OPG/CG swap, headers/exhaust. You run up near $4K-5K in parts (and over $6000 with labor) to get maybe 500RWHP, with power pushed up really high into the power band.

Some shops do a turnkey supercharger setup for like $7500 installed, ~650RWHP, power everywhere, and the potential to make 700, 800 with pulley changes, fuel, tuning, etc.

 

[44267547]

Picture of the replacement wheel. Unfortunately, when inspecting my wheels yesterday, I did find one of the wheels had a minor indentation in the finish, it somewhat resembled a ripple. I called A&M, within minutes they dispatched another wheel from their warehouse directly to me. That’s why customer service is so pivotal when choosing items like this, and I had a new replacement wheel sent to me overnight, which I received less than 13 hours and this one is perfect like the rest of the others.


This 20” charcoal wheel is just awesome.

 

[Huntn]

Key fobs, royal dealer ripoffs?

I’m inquiring if the dealer’s used car manager possibly has the second key for my 2016 Miata (recently purchased). Btw, this car is a joy.

I called the Miata dealer and asked them what it costs to get a second key fob- $200 +$150 to program. Why? Any less expensive alternatives?
[doublepost=1527947170][/doublepost]How is steering wheel size measured, diameter I assume?

Update:

• I have a Miata keyfob from findyourkeylessremote.com. It cost $35 (dealer cost $200), purchased on Amazon and has a 100% satisfaction guaranteed sticker on it. I compared this with my original keyfob and it is an official refurbished key fob with the same FC ID on it as my original. The seller confirmed this.
• I was all prepared to go to my local Mazda dealer and pay them $140 to program it, but when I asked if I only pay if they successfully program it? They said with a key they don't provide, the technician deserves to be paid for his time effort. Fine and dandy except this is another dealer rip off. So I called the company in the first part and they told me that there was a high likelihood, that the dealer would either refuse to program it, or would tell you it failed to program to get me to buy their $200 version. They recommended an auto locksmith and gave me several names and phone numbers.
• So tomorrow, I'll be heading to the locksmith who charges $80 to program it, half the dealer cost and $5 to cut the key, 1/7 of the dealer charge.
• Total cost Dealer vs other vendors $375 vs $120.

I'll report if I end up with a working key, then we can all bad mouth the dealers and their perceived monopolies. Fingers crossed!