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The Car Thread ... !
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No rubbing whatsoever and plenty of clearance. I think 1.5” was perfect. I know some guys drop Mustangs *a-lot* lower than this (Or even bag them), but I would just not be comfortable in doing so. [I do plan on purchasing a panhard bar at one point.]
Oh, and that Ceramic coating speaks for itself.
I forgot about Saab
I always liked Saab cars too bad GM sold them
I wish GM kept some of the other makes besides some that they kept
The Land Cruiser is not small at all! That is why I am surprised one of my sisters has one when it is just her but now I want one too
The killed off or sold brands didn't really serve a purpose the surviving brands couldn't serve. You probably could argue Saab was more salvageable in terms of image over Buick when it comes to the near luxury/premium brands, but Buick wasn't going anywhere due to China. Pontiac's purpose could very well be served under Chevy. Saturn was too well known as an economy brand to successfully move into the premium/near-luxury brand needed to successfully make Saturn the US Opel branch( hence Buick got that job).
The only brand that got killed off that had any potential was Hummer in terms of making it a viable Jeep competitor, but its image was toxic( hence why China vetoed the sale to a Chinese company) given the climate back then of SUV's. Hummer was the poster child of big wasteful vehicles. GM could give GMC a Wrangler competitor if they really wanted to venture into the off road vehicle market. But the only vehicle GM offers for off roaders is the Colorado ZR2( kinda surprised the Canyon didn't get an equivalent model).
The killed off brands served no unique purpose the surviving brands couldn't serve. The only reason GMC survived is because it prints money for GM. The government wanted to kill GMC too, but then they were shown the books and reversed course once they realized GMC was quite profitable for them.
I never understood why GM kept GMC and Chevy when GMC is just a badge engineered Chevy with no mechanical differences. Originally I thought the plan was to merge the higher trim level GMCs into Chevy and keep Pontiac. Or at least that's what I remember hearing. My parents have a GMC Sierra but it is no different than my uncle's Chevy Silverado. I too a surprised there isn't a GMC equivalent to the Chevy Colorado ZR2
Now you know why GMC survived. It's a profit machine for GM. And truck buyers are one of the most loyal buyers. They wouldn't just go over to the Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, Traverse, and Equinox. GM lost quite a few customers when they killed Oldsmobile. The amount of lost customers if they killed GMC would probably be even bigger than that.
Pontiac as marketed initially was to shrink and become a niche performance brand( tie Pontiac to Holden like they tied Buick with Opel), but the government probably vetoed that or I think that was just preparing the fan base for the inevitable. But again they could tie Holden to Chevy if they wanted to( and did with the Chevy SS sedan).
GM basically made their own nest in the 80s and 90s with rampant badge engineering and almost no distinction between the three mid-range brands(Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac) and really to a wider extent across their five "core" brands.
All three brands historically had their own distinct styling and other things like their own engines. Of course, some of the latter were sort of a failure-like the Buick 215 V8(that went on to live a very long life in England as the Rover V8)-but at the same time the Oldmobile Rocket V8 had a huge following. Pontiac, of course, had a "sporty" image and the styling to match it.
My dad had three cars in a row in the late 90s-a '97 Olds 88, a '98 Buick LeSabre, and a '99 Pontiac Bonneville. All three had a 3800 Series II(great engine, BTW)-a Buick-derived engine-and I remain convinced that the only difference between the Olds and the Buick was the grille badge. The Bonneville was tuned to a bit more power, had a spoiler, a body kit, and bucket-ish seats. Pontiac kept the body kit thing alive on most of their cars-i.e. Sunfire, Trans Am, etc, but otherwise kept the three brands in lock step.
Late in Pontiac's life, they did at least try to bring back a "halo" car by importing the Holden Monaro(2-door Commodore) as the GTO, although the styling was pretty bland compared to the classic GTOs. Oldsmobile was left to die a slow a death after a slide into obscurity.
At least now a lot of the historical Buick styling cues like the 3 holes in the fender and the "Waterfall" grille have returned. Even with platform sharing, they've made them into their own car and own company. They just lack the engine distinctions of the past, although it doesn't make sense to maintain a separate engine line for every brand.
Unfortunately, FoMoCo let the same thing happen with Mercury with them basically either being an upmarket/optioned out Ford or a down market/low option Lincoln(although Lincolns at least kept some identity by using longer wheelbases for most of their products in that era and distinct styling cues like the "hump" on the Mark VII/VIII trunk). There again, the Marauder was the last attempt at a halo car and it's one I really like, but fundamentally it's a parts bin Panther with the Intech V8(32V DOHC) used in a lot of Lincolns along with the intake/exhaust and suspension from the Crown Vic Police Interceptor.
It's unfortunate too that FoMoCo went through a period in the 90s and 2000s where Lincoln nearly became just an upmarket Ford. The one distinct product they made in the 2000s-the LS-was absolutely incredible in my highly biased opinion. They replaced it, though, with the Zephyr/MKZ which initially was a badge engineered Fusion. By 2010, the MKZ at least had enough of a refresh to make it distinctive inside and out(I wouldn't drive one otherwise). Still, though, it's hard to hide the Fusion underpinnings in it and the Taurus in the MKS. At least now they've made the Lincoln styling pretty distinctive and at least promote the brand pretty heavily.
All three brands historically had their own distinct styling and other things like their own engines. Of course, some of the latter were sort of a failure-like the Buick 215 V8(that went on to live a very long life in England as the Rover V8)-but at the same time the Oldmobile Rocket V8 had a huge following. Pontiac, of course, had a "sporty" image and the styling to match it.
My dad had three cars in a row in the late 90s-a '97 Olds 88, a '98 Buick LeSabre, and a '99 Pontiac Bonneville. All three had a 3800 Series II(great engine, BTW)-a Buick-derived engine-and I remain convinced that the only difference between the Olds and the Buick was the grille badge. The Bonneville was tuned to a bit more power, had a spoiler, a body kit, and bucket-ish seats. Pontiac kept the body kit thing alive on most of their cars-i.e. Sunfire, Trans Am, etc, but otherwise kept the three brands in lock step.
Late in Pontiac's life, they did at least try to bring back a "halo" car by importing the Holden Monaro(2-door Commodore) as the GTO, although the styling was pretty bland compared to the classic GTOs. Oldsmobile was left to die a slow a death after a slide into obscurity.
At least now a lot of the historical Buick styling cues like the 3 holes in the fender and the "Waterfall" grille have returned. Even with platform sharing, they've made them into their own car and own company. They just lack the engine distinctions of the past, although it doesn't make sense to maintain a separate engine line for every brand.
Unfortunately, FoMoCo let the same thing happen with Mercury with them basically either being an upmarket/optioned out Ford or a down market/low option Lincoln(although Lincolns at least kept some identity by using longer wheelbases for most of their products in that era and distinct styling cues like the "hump" on the Mark VII/VIII trunk). There again, the Marauder was the last attempt at a halo car and it's one I really like, but fundamentally it's a parts bin Panther with the Intech V8(32V DOHC) used in a lot of Lincolns along with the intake/exhaust and suspension from the Crown Vic Police Interceptor.
It's unfortunate too that FoMoCo went through a period in the 90s and 2000s where Lincoln nearly became just an upmarket Ford. The one distinct product they made in the 2000s-the LS-was absolutely incredible in my highly biased opinion. They replaced it, though, with the Zephyr/MKZ which initially was a badge engineered Fusion. By 2010, the MKZ at least had enough of a refresh to make it distinctive inside and out(I wouldn't drive one otherwise). Still, though, it's hard to hide the Fusion underpinnings in it and the Taurus in the MKS. At least now they've made the Lincoln styling pretty distinctive and at least promote the brand pretty heavily.
My father got the GMC Sierra because the dealer gave him a better deal than the dealer who had the Chevy Silverado. I know several people who are loyal to GM as a whole and game the dealers for the best deal. My assumption is that GMC doesn't have the blue collar worker stigma that Chevy has
That's what I remember hearing about Pontiac. Wasn't Saturn originally tied to Opel? The Holden vehicles I saw in the past were nice and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one in the US under the Pontiac or Chevy brand. Is Holden still around? The Chevy SS was nice but I would prefer the Pontiac G8 GXP because I thought it looked more aggressive and I wish Chevy didn't kill the SS. I keep my eyes open for a Chevy Caprice 9C3 but those are hard to find
My observation is there's a lot of badge engineering in GM now and it doesn't matter which you get because they're identical. I never understood what happened to Oldsmobile
I've noticed that FoMoCo isn't as badge engineered as GM but they still do it. At least the body is different and just the platform and powertrain is the same. The Marauder was nice and it is another one that I used to keep an eye out for but I haven't seen a decent one for sale in years
Unfortunately, the Marauder seems to have fallen into the same pit as the car I see it as indirectly responding to-the 94-96 Impala SS.
You find a lot now that have been completely trashed, or you find pristine ones at astronomical prices.
From what I've heard, the Marauder engine has been somewhat problematic. I find that strange as my dad had a string of 3 Continentals with the same Intech V8(albeit transverse mounted) and basically zero engine issues. The Continental engine really isn't a suitable swap for the Marauder without a fair bit of work, but the Mark VIII and Aviator engines are essentially direct drop-in replacements. The former has dried up in junk yards, while the latter is still at least somewhat plentiful.
Yes Saturn was originally tied to Opel, but that changed to Buick post-bankruptcy. Which was the better move due to Buick already being established as a premium/near-luxury brand vs trying to move Saturn up market.
Holden is around as a brand, but they have now been fully assimilated into the GM system where they were a semi-independent subsidiary before( sort of like how the US brands used to be ages ago). The reason the Caprice 9C3 and SS sedan were killed because the car in Australia was killed and the plant shut down. The Commodore is now a rebadged Opel Insignia/Buick Regal.
There is a difference between platform sharing which they are doing now vs badge engineering which they did in the past.
This is badge engineering:
Same design with just a different badge slapped on it.
Of course here is the most famous example of badge engineering
Platform sharing is quite different. The mechanical bits may be similar/same underneath, but the body is a lot more unique. Every manufacture does it.
New Blazer and Acadia are on the same platform and have the same mechanical bits underneath. But are unique in design.
I pretty sure our journey has the 3.6 V6. Not underpowered by any means, but certainly not sporty either. My wifey fell in love with her friends 2017 journey and just had to have it. Happy wife...happy life.
Not that there is anything wrong with this, but:
You know when you park your sports car in a parking lot that’s fairly large away from others [As in no where near where others are], because you don’t really want anyone else parking next to you in the sense of trying to avoid having door dings or for those who are simply negligent around others vehicles? (That’s Me) But then, there is that *one* other sports car That Will park their car all the way out by yours just to show you what type of car they have in comparison to yours? Yeah, that’s this Porsche below.
Just an observation:
What I find interesting, (As I don’t really follow the Porsche brand closely) looking at the rear of the vehicle when I was leaving south of the stadium lot, there was no indicators of what model Porsche this was, and it was also missing the Porsche lettering insignia on the rear,
It was completely blank, Which leads me to believe this might have been a salvaged vehicle at one point (Unless there are options for branding?), because this is usually what I see with cars that are rebuilt that are missing badging on the back of the vehicle that might have been in an accident at one point or another. In my state, D.O.T-Trans code Laws do not require a vehicle to be re-badged after its been retitled post accident, as some states might require This.
That all said, I like this shade of blue. There was a Camaro SS that I posted a picture of months back that offered in a very similar blue as this, and I would definitely consider this color in the future. The way the sun angles, it morphs tones Somewhat.
You know when you park your sports car in a parking lot that’s fairly large away from others [As in no where near where others are], because you don’t really want anyone else parking next to you in the sense of trying to avoid having door dings or for those who are simply negligent around others vehicles? (That’s Me) But then, there is that *one* other sports car That Will park their car all the way out by yours just to show you what type of car they have in comparison to yours? Yeah, that’s this Porsche below.
Just an observation:
What I find interesting, (As I don’t really follow the Porsche brand closely) looking at the rear of the vehicle when I was leaving south of the stadium lot, there was no indicators of what model Porsche this was, and it was also missing the Porsche lettering insignia on the rear,
It was completely blank, Which leads me to believe this might have been a salvaged vehicle at one point (Unless there are options for branding?), because this is usually what I see with cars that are rebuilt that are missing badging on the back of the vehicle that might have been in an accident at one point or another. In my state, D.O.T-Trans code Laws do not require a vehicle to be re-badged after its been retitled post accident, as some states might require This.
That all said, I like this shade of blue. There was a Camaro SS that I posted a picture of months back that offered in a very similar blue as this, and I would definitely consider this color in the future. The way the sun angles, it morphs tones Somewhat.
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Porsche model letterng is optional. In that you can buy one with or without the lettering at no extra charge. Most are bought without lettering here on the west coast. You can buy a 911 Turbo S and simply have the 911 or the Porsche emblem or painted on logo and or wording, or nothing at all. Your choice. You can even get the model designation or the Porsche name painted on the bottom portion of the doors. Secondly, a lot of people these days choose to remove the lettering. All you need is a blowdryer and some fishing line. The letters cost next to nothing, yes, even on a Porsche. The cost to fix and repair a Porsche, even a 'cheap' model like a Boxster simply isn't worth it. While Porsche's keep their value very well, an accident that causes enough damage will ding a significant portion of its value off, and cost a fortune to repair, and that's before spraying the entire car. Blending simply doesn't work on cars like this.
A replaced scuffed to hell and back bumper cover and factory-like match by an authorized repaint center alone will set back a Porsche owner anywhere from 8-12K. Buying a salvaged Porsche to repair to factory spec is stupid unless it's a unique model or a classic. A Boxster is neither, unless it's a Spyder, and even then, it still isn't worth it, IMHO.
RP, get a grabber blue Mustang GT500 (if it comes out) and let me live vicariously through you. I don't know about the new Camaro. The more I look at the more I suspect the designers were doing lines of coke.
A replaced scuffed to hell and back bumper cover and factory-like match by an authorized repaint center alone will set back a Porsche owner anywhere from 8-12K. Buying a salvaged Porsche to repair to factory spec is stupid unless it's a unique model or a classic. A Boxster is neither, unless it's a Spyder, and even then, it still isn't worth it, IMHO.
RP, get a grabber blue Mustang GT500 (if it comes out) and let me live vicariously through you.
I don't know about the new Camaro. The more I look at the more I suspect the designers were doing lines of coke.
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Interesting insight Zen. I didn’t know that you could opt for purchasing a Porsche without any type of insignia on the rear of the vehicle, that Would be the first I have heard of this offered for any vehicle. Typically with other vehicles when I see this, it’s usually indicating that it’s a salvage title that was post-accident at one point, and it was never rebranded from the body shop. But being this is a unique sports car, it obviously has a different designation for owner discretion based off branding options.
As Far as removing decals/badges with fishing line, not uncommon at all. Many GT owners remove the chrome-like 5.0 badges (In place of matte badges) with fishing line, Goo-Gone and a heat gun, which I don’t prefer using fishing line, mainly because it does leave hairline scratches on the paint, but they can easily be buffed out for the most part.
As Far as removing decals/badges with fishing line, not uncommon at all. Many GT owners remove the chrome-like 5.0 badges (In place of matte badges) with fishing line, Goo-Gone and a heat gun, which I don’t prefer using fishing line, mainly because it does leave hairline scratches on the paint, but they can easily be buffed out for the most part.
It isn't offered for the bulk of vehicles. I think BMW offered it at one point for certain models. I know MBZ offers it and it's an option I'm considering for our next car(s) to keep it looking clean and borderline sleeper. Also, let's be honest, it's a bitch and a half to duct tape emblems when you do a paint correction. You buy a new car these days and there's badges everywhere. From the windows to the wipers to the caps on the valve stems. You spend $50,000+ to drive a ****ing billboard.
It's even more sad when you hop into an AMG GT S or R for a test drive and MBZ decided to label everything. There's parts labeling for manufacturing reasons and there's putting your company's marque on everything to remind the owner and driver what they're in. Boggles my mind.
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True. I can’t speak for all vehicles, but Ford is some of the worst with their branding on the trunk (SHO, Taurus, Ecoboost, *huge* Ford emblem, all in chrome, which is even worse.)
I saw a Red Kia Stinger completely debadged, but rightfully so.
RP, get a grabber blue Mustang GT500 (if it comes out) and let me live vicariously through you.
The new 2019 Camaro is a pass for me. I do like Quagmires year though. I have Always opted for black and white sports cars, but I think I’m to the point where I would like a color that’s completely different (Grabber blue or Orange fury is considerable). The GT500 sounds very nice, but I can only imagine the markup on those will be insane. I’m still hopeful for the GT350 [Or, a 19’ Bullitt as alternative in Hyland Green], when I return back from vacation/Training, I want to meet with the GT 350 I met at the track (Really nice guy too), and See what his insight is, maybe he will even take me for a drive, as I have not experienced one yet first hand.
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Moved from Trump Twitter Blasts Harley thread:
Interesting post. The US had a huge post WWII bubble that seems to have finally popped. For myself, when it comes to quality and design, I’ve had a bad taste off and on regarding US car manufacturers design and quality since 1975 when I went to buy a US car and everything seemed crappy to me. I ended up buying a Fiat Spider. After our last US car a Chevy Equinox displayed shabby interior quality, my wife became ademately anti-American in this regard, however, this is not to say US manufacturers have not turned themselves around. We just rarely give them a chance.
Interesting post. The US had a huge post WWII bubble that seems to have finally popped. For myself, when it comes to quality and design, I’ve had a bad taste off and on regarding US car manufacturers design and quality since 1975 when I went to buy a US car and everything seemed crappy to me. I ended up buying a Fiat Spider. After our last US car a Chevy Equinox displayed shabby interior quality, my wife became ademately anti-American in this regard, however, this is not to say US manufacturers have not turned themselves around. We just rarely give them a chance.
You're right the only Marauders I have seen were either trashed or priced astronomically. I assumed the engine would be good because I thought it was the engine that Ford put in the CVPIs the cops used
I agree that it was a good move to tie Buick to Opel! I knew Holden shut the plant down in Australia but I thought Holden was closed I wasn't aware they are still around. How will Buick work out now that Opel is sold to PSA? Will they maintain a partnership?
I didn't realize the difference between badge engineering and platform sharing so thanks! I assumed it was the same since even the GMC Terrain and Chevy Equinox had different bodies but the same drive terrain and options on the interriorThere is a difference between platform sharing which they are doing now vs badge engineering which they did in the past.
This is badge engineering:
Same design with just a different badge slapped on it.
Of course here is the most famous example of badge engineering
Platform sharing is quite different. The mechanical bits may be similar/same underneath, but the body is a lot more unique. Every manufacture does it.
New Blazer and Acadia are on the same platform and have the same mechanical bits underneath. But are unique in design.
Thanks! I didn't mind the Journey but wished the rental car I had was more powerful. I might add it to the list to look at since I am looking at replacing my current car
Nice Porsche
I see a lot of folks de-badging cars around here. It's nothing to do with an accident-it's just a taste/preference thing. I'm not into it, but I can understand the "sleek" look that some folks like. It's a 10 minute job with a heat gun and with a little work leaves no trace that it was ever there-it's not like on my MG where pulling badges involves unbolting or drilling rivets and then having to weld up the holes and paint.
As a brief anecdote, one of my best friends in college grew up working in his dad's body shop and still worked there on the weekends all through college. Toyota had a HUGE hit with the 97-02 Camry, and for a while at least in this part of the country it was THE car(the police department in my college town had a couple of them that were donated by TMMK).
In any case, by that point a lot had trickled down to the secondary market and just kept running and running. My friend and I were headed down the road one day and pulled up behind one. He looked at it and said "That car's been whacked in the back end." I asked him how he knew, and he said "The badges are on the wrong side of the trunk." Sure enough, the next time I looked at one I realized that they had indeed mixed things up and flip-flopped the "Toyota" and "Camry" badges. A good body guy and/or used car dealer can spot a repaired car from a mile away, and that's just one of those little details that can REALLY give it away.
As a brief anecdote, one of my best friends in college grew up working in his dad's body shop and still worked there on the weekends all through college. Toyota had a HUGE hit with the 97-02 Camry, and for a while at least in this part of the country it was THE car(the police department in my college town had a couple of them that were donated by TMMK).
In any case, by that point a lot had trickled down to the secondary market and just kept running and running. My friend and I were headed down the road one day and pulled up behind one. He looked at it and said "That car's been whacked in the back end." I asked him how he knew, and he said "The badges are on the wrong side of the trunk." Sure enough, the next time I looked at one I realized that they had indeed mixed things up and flip-flopped the "Toyota" and "Camry" badges. A good body guy and/or used car dealer can spot a repaired car from a mile away, and that's just one of those little details that can REALLY give it away.
The basic block is the 4.6L modular, which is an OHC engine that was used for a REALLY long time across a wide range of vehicles.
Most Panther cars(Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, Town Car) got the 16 valve SOHC version, which is basically bullet proof.
The Marauder was the only Panther to get the 4.6L DOHC 32-valve version. Lincoln branded this as the "Intech" engine and they were the heaviest users of it(like I said, Mark VIII, Continental, Aviator) but it also showed up in some Shelby Mustangs. The DOHC version has a reputation for being a bit more cantankerous than the SOHC, whether in 16V or 24V form(yes, 24 valves, or 3 per cylinder, was a thing).
Looks like a 981 Boxster GTS or S with the AeroKit in Sapphire Blue.
Front painted spoiler, red brake calipers/upgraded brakes (part of the S trim upgrade), 20inch Carrera S wheels
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Some just prefer the cleaner look of the car debadged.
While I am not into debadging, I didn't want the dealers badge on my car. Especially since it was placed in such a position where it really stood out. Despite ordering it and kept on bringing it up with the general manager and salesman I didn't want the badge on the car, they still put it on when it went through the PDI process. But the salesman removed it when I was finishing the paperwork without me prompting it.
Anyway I would rather see a debadged car than a 320i rebadged as a M3.... Now those are the real douchebags.