Some car companies are just lazy. See how some are just giving up on cars.
Wagons are popular in Europe because there's a good offer.
SUVs are so popular because that is what the vendors are pushing.
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The Car Thread ... !
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Wagons are popular in Europe because there's a good offer.
SUVs are so popular because that is what the vendors are pushing.
This seems to be a circular conversation.
Back in the late-'80s/early-'90s American consumers started favoring minivans over station wagons as a family hauler. The late 90s and early 2000s saw folks moving more toward SUVs for that role, with the rest of the market held by minivans. These days, crossovers are by and large the preference.
I know a lot of people-a whole lot of people-who will say that they prefer the higher seating and driving position offered by vans, SUVs, and crossovers. That's not manufacturers "forcing" them-that's consumers speaking and identifying one characteristic these vehicles offer that wagons DO NOT offer.
Crossovers seem to dominate today(speculating) because they offer the gas mileage and interior space advantages of a car-based platform, but don't have the "uncool" reputation of minivans(which are also car based).
Wagons are available in the US, and there have been some really interesting ones in the past several years. I remember Cadillac experimenting several years ago with the CTS-V Wagon-I don't think I've ever seen one on the road. My grandfather had an E320 Wagon-I think it was maybe an '04 m/y or so-and it was a pig to sell when the time came and brought a fair bit less money than a black E320 in the same condition with the same number of miles would have brought. I was behind a Volvo wagon just a bit ago that wasn't terribly old.
You seem to continue saying the same things, but have consistently shown a lot of ignorance about the American car market. I can't pretend to be an expert by any means, but at the same time I live in America and pay attention to both what's on the lots and what I see on the road around me. The bottom line is that wagons don't sell here.
I don't care about the American market. You do a lot of wrong things.
And you don't have Renault, Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat station wagons for example.
Cube isn’t from India, he is from Ireland/Europe from past threads mentioned.
Regardless, I always think it’s intriguing to see the transition with the car market over the years. As another member alluded, what was popular today may not be popular in the future given trends that change, partially due to economic factors. I remember when the Ford Taurus and the Chevy Impala were king of the road on the market in the 90’s/early-mid 2000’s, and now both of those cars are discontinued/will be discontinued. I don’t think there was ever a time I contemplated that the four-door sedan would be a fading market and where the transition is now leading to the electric era.
Regardless, I always think it’s intriguing to see the transition with the car market over the years. As another member alluded, what was popular today may not be popular in the future given trends that change, partially due to economic factors. I remember when the Ford Taurus and the Chevy Impala were king of the road on the market in the 90’s/early-mid 2000’s, and now both of those cars are discontinued/will be discontinued. I don’t think there was ever a time I contemplated that the four-door sedan would be a fading market and where the transition is now leading to the electric era.
They make what sells. Period. Auto manufacturing is a highly capital intensive industry; they aren’t going to waste development and manufacturing resources on cars that won’t sell. If wagons were popular here, the Dodge Magnum would never have been discontinued and Volvo V60 and Subaru Outback sales would be dominating the sales charts and other automakers would be pushing out their own wagons to get in on the action. This, along with your complaints about a lack of CD players confirms to me that you don’t know how consumer markets work.
I don't care about their shareholders, I care about what we consumers want.
And I don't care about what junk you buy in the US except that you stop gassing the world.
I’m not sure being “lazy” or work ethic has anything to do with discontinuation of cars.
It’s literally a statistic wagon emand is decreasing in Europe. Europe is pretty much the only remaining market where wagons are have relative popularity. Conversely SUV demand is increasing across the globe. Now that many car-based SUVs have similar gas mileage and improved handling, the old benefits of wagons are decreasing.
Don’t get me wrong, I like wagons. The XC70 and E-class wagons are among my favorites. My mother has owned a number of wagons over the years, From a Volvo 240 in the 80’s when I was born to her current 2015 A4 Allroad. Unfortunately a lot of the world would rather have an SUV over a wagon.
Huh? I didn’t say a single thing about shareholders and specifically talked about consumer’s desires. That’s some remarkably poor reading comprehension. Consumers here have said they don’t want wagons. You might not care about that, but the US is the second biggest auto market in the world, behind China, so we have a lot of sway in the global auto market. I’m not sure what your complaint is anyway, do you not have wagons available where you live? Even though they aren’t popular here in the US, they’re still available. Or is it that none of them are available with a CD player lol? If automakers thought wagons would be popular where you live, they’d bring more models there.
As far as ‘junk’ goes, we have largely the same cars available here as in Europe. Just like Europe, some models are good and some are crap.
It is not about discontinuation of cars. It is about not offering wagons in certain markets since many years ago when the design exists, and the base car is already made there.
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The American market is irrelevant in many other parts of the world. Wagons can be missing there just because of lack of business innovation.
Automotive manufacturing isn’t like insurance where customers and shareholders have different incentives. A car company and consequently its shareholders have every incentive to sell the cars it’s customers want.
I’m confused how you think manufacturers are forcing people to buy SUVs. What product do you want that is not available?
What do you mean by “gassing the world”?
What, pray tell, does the American market do wrong?
Does it personally upset you that American consumers don't want station wagons? As said, they're available here. @vipergts2207 reminded me of the Subaru Outback, which by my observation is probably the most popular wagon on the American roads. I do know people who will own nothing else(it's a pretty widely varied demographic, but I would also say skewed somewhat toward active/outdoors type folks, although by no means a monopoly on that market), but they're the exception rather than the rule.
We DO have Fiats here. I had one dealer joke with me that if I bought another new FCA product, he'd give me a 126 for free if I wanted it-apparently the dealers are stuffed to the gills with cars that aren't selling. Peugot exited the market here sometime in the late 80s or early 90s, and I don't know when Renault and Citroen were last sold-French cars are often the butt of jokes here, and not cars that people get excited about buying.
We've had discussions in the past about the fact that there's really no market for bare-bones base model cars in the US-dealers don't routinely stock event the ones that are cataloged because they don't sell. By and large, what market DOES exist for them is pretty well filled by the Korean makers, or at least from what I've seen.
You can say you don't care about the American market, but at the same time it's a pretty darn large market for cars. It gets discussed in this thread a lot because most of the regular posters here live in America.
I think that has a lot more to do with financial viability than laziness. If you have to pay to make the design for the wagon modifications, get the parts made, have trained assembly people, possible additional safety testing, etc, all that money adds up and things tend to cost a lot more at a lower volume. So in many cases it may not just be worth it.
It’s far from irrelevant when automakers the world over are making design decisions based on the US market. It works both ways though. The front of the current Mustang looks the way it does to comply with European pedestrian safety laws. There’s also nothing innovative in business about bringing models to markets where they won’t sell.
Many companies just take the easy way.
When you start making a lot of SUV models and few cars, you're pushing consumers towards the former.
Station wagons are missing since many years ago in some emerging markets, and some good cars are becoming unbuyable because they now lack a disc player.
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It would be worth it when you would have the market for yourself.
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So BMW makes the X series for the US. Big deal. They will sell only a few in emerging markets.
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One of the things Americans do wrong is buying gas guzzlers when they don't need them.
I know a few Fiats are sold over there. But I don't think you get the Fiat Tipo SW for example, which is what I was talking about.
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What's the latest fixation with having a disk player?
Personally I'm upset that I can't buy a car with a cassette deck or even better an 8-track player from the factory anymore. While we're at it, why will none interface with my PocketPC, and why do minivan entertainment systems not have VCRs?
On a more serious note, I don't know of anyone who has a car that is capable of connecting to some sort of MP3 player who DOESN'T use one. Between smartphones and stand-alone players, virtually everyone has one now. Given the lack of any kind of aux input built into the radio, I am somewhat serious about a tape deck-in my experience the tape deck adapters that use to be common are a LOT more reliable(and work better) than things like radio transmitters for iPods-those are all things of the past, though.
I already said it. You can buy CDs on the road and play surround music if you have a DVD player.
Do you live in an emerging market? If not, then that decision doesn’t effect you. I’d also ask why BMW would try to sell those expensive vehicles in such a market.
They’re making SUVs because their cars aren’t selling well. If day Ford stops making cars no one is forcing you to buy a Ford. There’s plenty of other car companies to buy from. If the tides turn rapidly and people don’t want SUVs, Ford will suffer.
I don’t think most people considering having a CD player being a deciding factor in the year 2019. Android Auto and CarPlay are much more important. My mom has a 2009 ES350, the last car to offer a cassette player in the US. I imagine no one bought that car specifically for its cassette player. Music CD’s are obsolete technology given subscription based music and smartphones are the norm. I suppose if you really wanted you could connect a CD player to the aux jack.
I’m currently struggling finding a car with a built in phonograph.
How do you know it does not affect me?
Expensive cars are imported into emerging markets because there are some rich people there.
The Cruze just stopped being made in the US. It will go on elsewhere.
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Ford is in a misguided crossover/SUV/pickup path globally. Of course I am not going to buy one.
I don't buy downloads and many times you can't stream. The point is not to listen to the music that I have at home.
What you consider wrong is highly subjective. But nonetheless, as long as the American V8 is manufactured, I (And plenty of others) will gladly continue to support that and pay the prices at the pump with the fuel prices.
Something else you haven’t mentioned about ‘gas guzzlers’ (Or maybe you’re just not informed), is that the truck market is a major role player in the U.S in addition. There is a huge segment for the truck market, not just for the consumer, but also for commercial use.
If it actually effects you, then feel free to please expound on how so.
Makers might export a few cars to those markets, but unlikely their entire lineup.
Yes, but the top selling vehicle in the world is the F series, the vast majority in the US, at more than one million units.
I doubt most of the customers are buying it for work.
Right, there is the consumer market, but there’s also the industrial/commercial use that I don’t think you have an understanding of, given your geographic location and maybe the truck market isn’t a considerable entity over in Ireland. In my region, the truck market is massive, where trucks are contracted frequently between construction/Highway department/municipal, etc.
However, back to the point, you just mentioned that Americans ‘do wrong’ is buying gas guzzlers, when the direct benefit is where counties/commercial use does require gas guzzlers for productivity.
Well, I don't feel like.
Yes, the cars most people can afford there are made regionally.
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I have no problem with productivity vehicles, but many consumers in the US fight to have the biggest truck/SUV
Then at that point we’re free to assume that you aren’t effected by it and that you’re simply complaining just to hear yourself talk. With the number of times I’ve seen you quote yourself, that seems quite likely.