The Car Thread ... !

[cube]

Boring? Have you ever seen a Golf R or GTI?
I’m a pretty boring person though.

I'm not into performance versions. The models look bland and the brand lacks excitement.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

2019 Escape

View attachment 830766

Always strange seeing cars called different things in other countries. That’s a Ford Kuga here in Europe.

 

[cube]

Always strange seeing cars called different things in other countries. That’s a Ford Kuga here in Europe.

I don't like when they use different names for the same derivative. Or worse, when they use the same name for different derivatives. It is confusing. But they should check that it is not a joke in any language.

 

[A.Goldberg]

I want a luxury German car to be made in Germany. Less expensive cars can be made in other countries, but I reserve the right to reject them based on origin (it is mainly about social dumping).

Wait so building cars in America is “social dumping”. I wasn’t aware we were a third world country.

Or maybe it has to do with taxes, the cost of shipping a car halfway around the world, and especially in some cases producing models that are sold primarily or exclusively in the NA market.

You do understand whether a car is built in Germany or America, if it’s the same model they will be using the same parts. And you do understand pretty much all cars source parts from subcontractors from around the world. A German car is far from 100% German.

Some of BMW’s biggest subcontractors:
- Brembo (brakes): Italy
- BorgWarner (drivetrain components): America
- Johnson Electric (HVAC): Japan
- Bridgestone (tires): Japan
- Guardian Industries (glass): America
- Gestamp (hood stamping): Spain
- Delphi (electrical): America
- GKN (axel assemblies): UK
- Harmon/Kardon (audio): Japan

There’s also Magna Steyer in Austria that assembles a lot of European cars and does some automotive engineering work. They are actually a subsidiary of a Canadian company.

Just as Boeing and Airbus source parts from all over the world, car companies do the exact same thing. It’s 2019, there has been a thing called a global economy for quite some time. Very few things are manufactured without international suppliers.

 

[cube]

Wait so building cars in America is “social dumping”. I wasn’t aware we were a third world country.

Or maybe it has to do with taxes, the cost of shipping a car halfway around the world, and especially in some cases producing models that are sold primarily or exclusively in the NA market.

You do understand whether a car is built in Germany or America, if it’s the same model they will be using the same parts. And you do understand pretty much all cars source parts from subcontractors from around the world. A German car is far from 100% German.

Some of BMW’s biggest subcontractors:
- Brembo (brakes): Italy
- BorgWarner (drivetrain components): America
- Johnson Electric (HVAC): Japan
- Bridgestone (tires): Japan
- Guardian Industries (glass): America
- Gestamp (hood stamping): Spain
- Delphi (electrical): America
- GKN (axel assemblies): UK
- Harmon/Kardon (audio): Japan

There’s also Magna Steyer in Austria that assembles a lot of European cars and does some automotive engineering work. They are actually a subsidiary of a Canadian company.

Just as Boeing and Airbus source parts from all over the world, car companies do the exact same thing. It’s 2019, there has been a thing called a global economy for quite some time. Very few things are manufactured without international suppliers.

It can be social dumping within the USA, for example. Depending on the state chosen for the plant.

Making a car locally makes sense for people to be able to afford it, but it will remove some of the premium status.

Some cars are made only in the USA for the world, so it would be normal for them to have more North American content.

I would say Austria is more premium than Germany, no problem there.

It is like wanting a Swiss-made watch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It looks to be in some sense something similar to the cheaper versions Renault makes in some other parts of the world today. The European ones are fine.

I don't think they are ruining Nissan, although some emerging market versions have been unacceptable (who's fault?). There's a lot of politics involved.

Renaults have always had decent engines but are cheaply built and put together which is why they are, well cheap lol. I had some bodywork damage on my car a couple of weeks back and I had a Renault Koleos for 4 days and I can safely say it’s the worst SUV I have ever driven. Noisy mirror motors, creaky dashboard, a satnav that looked like it was from 2005 and suspension so bouncy the passengers would need sick bags lol. I thought the Nissan Qashqai was poor but this was dreadful.

My first car was a Renault 5 and I had a Clio once but would never go back now I’ve owned cars from BMW, Ford, Toyota, Honda, VW etc.

 

[bunnspecial]

It is like wanting a Swiss-made watch.

You do realize that at one time, Switzerland was the leading exporter of cheap, crappy watches, right?

In fact, there was a time when Swiss makers would put "American sounding" names on low end movements and try to deceive buyers into thinking that they were American made...

Even today, I would argue that a Japanese-made Grand Seiko is nicer than your typical Rolex or Omega. Let's also not discount the last remnants of American manufacturing, like RGM.

Car-watch analogies have always been pointless, and what you're trying to say here(not sure if I even completely understand) is basically not a point.

 

[cube]

You do realize that at one time, Switzerland was the leading exporter of cheap, crappy watches, right?

In fact, there was a time when Swiss makers would put "American sounding" names on low end movements and try to deceive buyers into thinking that they were American made...

Even today, I would argue that a Japanese-made Grand Seiko is nicer than your typical Rolex or Omega. Let's also not discount the last remnants of American manufacturing, like RGM.

Car-watch analogies have always been pointless, and what you're trying to say here(not sure if I even completely understand) is basically not a point.

It does not matter what it was at some other time.

Everybody is free to spend their money how they want.

 

[bunnspecial]

It does not matter what it was at some other time.

Everybody is free to spend their money how they want.

I honestly have no idea what you're getting at most of the time in this thread.

You have no problem pointing out historical trends when they suit your narrative(which seems to change by the hour) but when someone else uses them you claim you don't care what happened in the past.

I'd also really be interested to know what car you drive, or what cars you have experience driving...

Also, I'll make a mention of the fact that you seem bothered that this thread is dominated by "American Petrolheads", but ignore that it was started by @D.T. who is, well, an American "petrolhead." Also, there are plenty of posters in this thread from all over the world who do things other than be antagonistic and post rigidly binary comments.

 

[Matz]

I would not have to post so much if I did not have to defend my preferences from your constant attacks.

FTW!

 

[quagmire]

C8 Corvette officially being unveiled on 7-18.

 

[A.Goldberg]

It can be social dumping within the USA, for example. Depending on the state chosen for the plant.

Making a car locally makes sense for people to be able to afford it, but it will remove some of the premium status.

Some cars are made only in the USA for the world, so it would be normal for them to have more North American content.

I would say Austria is more premium than Germany, no problem there.

It is like wanting a Swiss-made watch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_made

A lot of auto workers in the US have a very good deal because of their unions. I didn’t realize they were exploited sweatshop workers. Tell me what states should and should not buy cars from and why.

I’m not sure a German made BMW versus an American made one have much of a prestige difference in the eyes of 99% of buyers. I’m willing to bet you the majority of the owners of foreign brand, American assembled vehicles even know that’s the case. If that’s your opinion that’s fine, but the average consumer cares a lot more about the quality of the car and the price than whether it’s assembled in the US or Europe.

In 2018 the most American sourced American branded car was 72%, the least 2%. US made BMWs are said to be 25-35% American sourced.

 

[0388631]

C8 Corvette officially being unveiled on 7-18.

Darn excited myself. All the rumor will finally come to an end.

 

[cube]

A lot of auto workers in the US have a very good deal because of their unions. I didn’t realize they were exploited sweatshop workers. Tell me what states should and should not buy cars from and why.

I’m not sure a German made BMW versus an American made one have much of a prestige difference in the eyes of 99% of buyers. I’m willing to bet you the majority of the owners of foreign brand, American assembled vehicles even know that’s the case. If that’s your opinion that’s fine, but the average consumer cares a lot more about the quality of the car and the price than whether it’s assembled in the US or Europe.

In 2018 the most American sourced American branded car was 72%, the least 2%. US made BMWs are said to be 25-35% American sourced.

If you want to talk politics, take it to the other thread, because it is risky here.

 

[Apple fanboy]

In 2018 the most American sourced American branded car was 72%, the least 2%. US made BMWs are said to be 25-35% American sourced.

Exactly! Times have changed. It’s a global market, and nowhere is that more evident than in manufacturing.
Cars are Assembled in America or Europe. But the parts could have come from anywhere!

I have no idea where my VW was made or assembled. But I don’t care either! I enjoy driving it. It gets me to work and back, and can be fun in sports mode when I find myself on a quiet stretch of road (very rarely!).

 

[44267547]

GM wanted to make this is ‘official date’ announcement as transparent as possible. Literally. (But finally). Perhaps a 1000 HP.

 

[cube]

Exactly! Times have changed. It’s a global market, and nowhere is that more evident than in manufacturing.
Cars are Assembled in America or Europe. But the parts could have come from anywhere!

I have no idea where my VW was made or assembled. But I don’t care either! I enjoy driving it. It gets me to work and back, and can be fun in sports mode when I find myself on a quiet stretch of road (very rarely!).

An article mentioned that a poll indicates that about 40% of (I think American) consumers care about where a car is made. Given the situation in the US, I imagine most of those want it to be American.

 

[bunnspecial]

A lot of auto workers in the US have a very good deal because of their unions. I didn’t realize they were exploited sweatshop workers. Tell me what states should and should not buy cars from and why.

TMMK is not unionized. I guess I should tell the people I know who are nearing 30 years there how badly they're being exploited, especially since Toyota decided to practice social dumping by building the plant in Kentucky.

Or at least that's what some guy on MacRumors told me...

 

[A.Goldberg]

An article mentioned that a poll indicates that about 40% of (I think American) consumers care about where a car is made. Given the situation in the US, I imagine most of those want it to be American.

And what exactly does that statistic mean. I’d like to see the context and study methods. Based on your summary statement...
1) it doesn’t necessarily assume they are preferential to US made cars. They might prefer Japanese or Korean or German cars, but not Chinese or British or even American.
2) it doesn’t necessarily assume people know many foreign brands have assembly plants in the US. Most people still consider an American assembled Toyota a Japanese car.
3) it doesn’t necessarily mean the country the car is made in is the primary deciding factor in their purchase, or even the top 5.

Considering most consumers are cognizant about what country their car is manufactured in, rather the brand’s country of origin, I don’t think “buying American” is the top priority. Again, the majority perception of country of origin is different than your very rigid view. The best selling cars in America are Toyotas and Hondas. In my neighborhood there are far more European and Japanese brands than American. There are some people who will only buy GM/Ford/Chrysler or their subsidies. Except for pickups, muscle cars, and EV’s (where there’s little-no competition) the foreign brands outsell American brands in pretty much every other class.

 

[Juicy Box]

Looks like it is happening!

It's officially official: the next-generation 2020 Chevrolet Corvette will make the switch to a mid-engined layout.

The new Corvette C8 makes its debut July 18, 2019, and will go on sale by the end of the year.

Modern Corvettes don't excite me at all, but the thought of a mid-engine Corvette at a Corvette-price is really exciting to me.

I am really looking forward to seeing more of this.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27116013/chevrolet-corvette-c8-mid-engine-confirmed-2020/
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2020-mid-engine-chevy-corvette-official/

Another thought, I am pretty sure that the tradition front-engine Corvette is technically considered "front-mid-engine" due to the placement of the motor behind the front wheel center line, but I haven't seen any of the articles mention this.

Me personally, I would choose true mid-engine over front-mid-engine configurations for many reasons, which it looks like Chevy is going that direction, so good for them.

 

[cube]

And what exactly does that statistic mean. I’d like to see the context and study methods. Based on your summary statement...
1) it doesn’t necessarily assume they are preferential to US made cars. They might prefer Japanese or Korean or German cars, but not Chinese or British or even American.
2) it doesn’t necessarily assume people know many foreign brands have assembly plants in the US. Most people still consider an American assembled Toyota a Japanese car.
3) it doesn’t necessarily mean the country the car is made in is the primary deciding factor in their purchase, or even the top 5.

Considering most consumers are cognizant about what country their car is manufactured in, rather the brand’s country of origin, I don’t think “buying American” is the top priority. Again, the majority perception of country of origin is different than your very rigid view. The best selling cars in America are Toyotas and Hondas. In my neighborhood there are far more European and Japanese brands than American. There are some people who will only buy GM/Ford/Chrysler or their subsidies. Except for pickups, muscle cars, and EV’s (where there’s little-no competition) the foreign brands outsell American brands in pretty much every other class.

The mention was in an article that was actually emphasizing that most people don't care.

If Americans can prefer American cars, Europeans can prefer European cars.
If Americans can prefer Japanese or German cars, the rest of the world also can.

 

[jeyf]

DIY
i was just trying to inject a recognizing of the practical lives we aspire

like most of us use our apple products to surf and do some word editing
many of us use our autos to go grocery shopping daily driver

me too; about 2005 i was into cars and things. I still own the garage queen but sold off the rest

there are a lot of cars out there and last few decade of auto designs are super reliable. Cars last 20+ years. You can pick up a fast agile efficient vehicle that handles excellent, quiet subtle style.
On a summer morning, just you, drifting up a canyon road.

 

[A.Goldberg]

The mention was in an article that was actually emphasizing that most people don't care.

Okay, then why were you using it in such a way to suggest that Americans do care? Besides, 40% is less than “most”. See your post:

An article mentioned that a poll indicates that about 40% of (I think American) consumers care about where a car is made. Given the situation in the US, I imagine most of those want it to be American.

Do you see now why people say your commentary is incoherent from post to post?

 

[cube]

Okay, then why were you using it in such a way to suggest that Americans do care? Besides, 40% is less than “most”. See your post:



View attachment 831785

Do you see now why people say your commentary is incoherent from post to post?

Because 40% is a lot. It is irrelevant that it is not most, and the fact that the figure comes from a source promoting that it does not matter makes it more believable.

 

[Matz]

any of you car owners DIY?

Not to the same extent as I used to. One reason is time. Another is that my current primary car needs significantly less fiddling with than my past cars have needed. On my relatively new to me 2014 sedan, I change oil & filter, air filters, and I may go with tire rotation if they don’t also need balancing at that point.

My 1993 Chevy Suburban (aka, “The Subdivision”), on the other hand, both requires more fiddling with and lends itself to said fiddling. So more DIY with that vehicle, certainly.

Now that you mention it, I’m in the process of taking on the care and feeding of a 1967-ish John Deere 2520 diesel farm tractor. I foresee more than a little DIY involved with that. Of course that would go in the Tractor Thread...