The Car Thread ... !

[Apple fanboy]

I owned a Renault 11. It was a wedding present from my Mum who was getting rid of it (she’d had it from new).
It was red and had a body kit. A massive rear spoiler like you’d get on a cosworth and skirts. I think it was that look my mother liked.
No power steering and the interior was vile.
Good engine though. I got rid when it got to 144k Miles.
I recall washing it one day and a journalist came up to me and said he was doing an article about the Renault 19 and wanted to take some photos. I told him it was a Renault 11 and he left!

 

[44267547]

I liked the design of the PT Cruiser and Crossfire, but I would never buy a car engineered in the US.

What specifically are/were wrong with cars manufactured in the U.S.?

 

[quagmire]

The only thing going for FCA is Jeep, Ram, and vehicles riding a platform that is pushing 30 years old now.....

All I know is don’t ask Scotty Kilmer about Chrysler if you like them.

The guy has a major hard on for Toyota’s and hates pretty much everything else.

 

[cube]

What specifically are/were wrong with cars manufactured in the U.S.?

I did not say manufactured, but I guess I would not buy a German car assembled in the US either for example because I don't know if it might have poor quality North American autoparts (and it would not be German, at least it should be European to be premium. A Japanese luxury car should also be made in Japan, for example, for authenticity).

That said, it would seem that many German cars are too complex nowadays anyway.

 

[2298754]

I did not say manufactured, but I guess I would not buy a German car assembled in the US either for example because I don't know if it might have poor quality North American autoparts (and it would not be German, at least it should be European to be premium. A Japanese luxury car should also be made in Japan, for example, for authenticity).

Who are you to make this distinction? How would you know if they were worse?

The Lexus products coming out of their North American plants are every bit as good as the ones produced in Japan.

I'm on my second American-made BMW right now. Doesn't feel any less German because it was made in the South.

That said, it would seem that many German cars are too complex nowadays anyway.

Nope.

https://www.statista.com/chart/17130/consumer-report-best-and-worst-car-brands/

 

[vipergts2207]

The only thing going for FCA is Jeep, Ram, and vehicles riding a platform that is pushing 30 years old now.....



The guy has a major hard on for Toyota’s and hates pretty much everything else.

The first two are highly profitable segments, and the third, though mischaracterized, has them playing successfully almost by themselves.

 

[quagmire]

The first two are highly profitable segments, and the third, though mischaracterized, has them playing successfully almost by themselves.

No doubt they are succeeding in the profitable segments right now. But Dodge is in shambles and so is the Chrysler brand. Fiat is a lost cause while Alfa have great performing vehicles but like all FCA products suffer quality problems. The only Jeep’s worth the Jeep badge is the Grand Cherokee which is still riding on the ML Class platform from the Daimler days and the Wrangler. I wouldn’t call the LX products mischaracterized. It’s fine for FCA to focus on the old muscle car formula of big engine up front that can only handle straight lines. But they need a modern platform that weighs south of 4000 pounds....... Which will happen eventually, but they have gone through like 2-3 platforms already that the challenger and charger were supposed to be on which have caused countless delays.

So yeah FCA can’t properly plan their vehicle pipeline outside of Jeep and Ram.

 

[cube]

Who are you to make this distinction? How would you know if they were worse?

The Lexus products coming out of their North American plants are every bit as good as the ones produced in Japan.

I'm on my second American-made BMW right now. Doesn't feel any less German because it was made in the South.



Nope.

https://www.statista.com/chart/17130/consumer-report-best-and-worst-car-brands/

A BMW or Mercedes made in the US might not be worse than one made in Europe. Sames goes for Lexus. But they are not authentic so I would not buy them.

I would buy a Golf assembled in Brazil if it is made to European standards because it is not a luxury car.

I already posted those stats elsewhere. I was referring to the European safety recalls I linked above.

 

[bunnspecial]

Cube is just being his usual self with the binary narrative that American=bad.

Among other things, I'm pretty sure there are any rampant complaints about Lexuses assembled at TMMK, or about Avalons which are built almost exclusively at TMMK.

Cube, I have to ask-do you drive? Do you own/have you ever owned a car? You've made a whole lot of frankly unsubstantiated statements in this and other car threads that read and sound like someone who does nothing but read reviews and Wikipedia articles, but has no real world experience with how any of this works.

 

[cube]

Cube is just being his usual self with the binary narrative that American=bad.

I want a luxury German car to be made in Germany. Less expensive cars can be made in other countries, but I reserve the right to reject them based on origin (it is mainly about social dumping).

 

[bunnspecial]

Based on my lack of answer to the question about owning/driving, I'm guessing the answer is "no."

Considering that this is a thread full of car enthusiasts who own a wide gamut of makes and models, plus have untold numbers of miles driving them and untold hours working on them, I think it's safe to regard the opinions of one poster as nothing but vociferous ramblings.

 

[cube]

Considering that this is a thread full of car enthusiasts who own a wide gamut of makes and models, plus have untold numbers of miles driving them and untold hours working on them, I think it's safe to regard the opinions of one poster as nothing but vociferous ramblings.

This thread is dominated by an American petrolhead perspective.

 

[bunnspecial]

So the answer to my question is still an implied "no"

 

[vipergts2207]

No doubt they are succeeding in the profitable segments right now. But Dodge is in shambles and so is the Chrysler brand. Fiat is a lost cause while Alfa have great performing vehicles but like all FCA products suffer quality problems. The only Jeep’s worth the Jeep badge is the Grand Cherokee which is still riding on the ML Class platform from the Daimler days and the Wrangler. I wouldn’t call the LX products mischaracterized. It’s fine for FCA to focus on the old muscle car formula of big engine up front that can only handle straight lines. But they need a modern platform that weighs south of 4000 pounds....... Which will happen eventually, but they have gone through like 2-3 platforms already that the challenger and charger were supposed to be on which have caused countless delays.

So yeah FCA can’t properly plan their vehicle pipeline outside of Jeep and Ram.

It's mischaracterized in the sense that saying "a platform pushing 30 years old" implies that a 2019 Charger rolling off the line is just a Mercedes W210 from 1996 with some Dodge bodywork thrown on. This completely ignores that a) the LX platform from 2004 was already back then a modified version of the E-class and included some S-class components as well, and b) that the LX platform was heavily modified in 2011 for the Charger, which is now on the LD platform, and in 2015 for the Challenger, which is now on the LA platform.

Also, you can only make a full-size sedan like the Charger weigh so little. It's not trying to be a small, but nimble M3. Even the BMW 5-series can weigh over 4300 lbs. You could of course use lots of expensive high-strength alloys, but then you raise the price of the vehicle substantially. The Charger and Challenger are playing perfectly in the area of cheap power. Nowhere else can you get a sedan with a V8 making almost 500hp for only $40k. Just to get a V8 sedan anywhere else, add $20k to the price.

 

[DakotaGuy]

The only thing going for FCA is Jeep, Ram, and vehicles riding a platform that is pushing 30 years old now.....



The guy has a major hard on for Toyota’s and hates pretty much everything else.

Scotty loves Toyota for sure. He likes a few Honda products and likes Ford F-150s. Pretty much everything else is junk according to him.

 

[44267547]

That’s insane that GMC is rated that low. I had heard/read they were declining in reliability, but not to the point where there score is that abysmal and rated in the ‘worst’ category is embarrassing.

But to further prove the chart you provided, My neighbor to the south of my house drives a 17’ Yukon Denali (Loaded/$60,000-ish truck), anytime I ever talk to him, he complains about his truck regularly, saying how it rattles from the inside, the interior has quality issues, the liftgate stopped working, overhead passenger DVD function failed, the list goes on...... He is looking to offload it for something else. [Fortunately he owns it and isn’t locked into a lease/lein].

 

[jeyf]

any of you car owners DIY?

 

[scubachap]

I want a luxury German car to be made in Germany. Less expensive cars can be made in other countries, but I reserve the right to reject them based on origin (it is mainly about social dumping).

I get your point but it depends on how you define 'made'. Many, many years ago (late 80s) I worked in the press shop of a car plant in the UK. Even way back then not only did we press bodies for our own companies production but we also pressed for Japanese, French and Swedish car companies on a contract basis. (I often thought French consumers would have been horrified had they known the origin of parts of their cars )

 

[vipergts2207]

any of you car owners DIY?

Just the basics so far, oil, brakes, simples fixes I can find online to small issues. Planning on trying to drain and replace radiator, transmission, and differential fluids soon.

 

[bunnspecial]

any of you car owners DIY?

Let's see...

The last time I had the MG out(last week) it was running pretty badly with almost no acceleration until I got it to 2-3K RPMs and it wouldn't idle at stop lights. I got it home, and when I did I pulled out the timing light to check out the ignition(ignition before carburetors, always). A quick check showed that the timing was correct(32º BTDC max advance, vac disconnected), but I wasn't done checking it out. Since the timing light is as good of a way as any to check for misfires, I went down the line and found that it wasn't sparking on cylinders 3 and 4. A little bit further investigation showed that the wires would spark off a head stud, but for whatever reason the plugs weren't firing.

Fast forward to yesterday, which was the first chance I'd had to dig into it. What I found was that I was running rich on all four plugs, but 3 and 4 were especially badly fouled. I cleaned them up a bit and initially they worked, but they they also loaded up again really quickly.

So, after leaning out both carbs a bit, but the rear one more than the front, I threw a new set of plugs on it for good measure(I use good old fashioned non-precious-metal NGKs, so I'm not going to lose too much sleep over $2 each). Unfortunately, at that point, my battery decided it had had enough. By my count it's at least 9 years old(I've owned the car for 3 1/2 years, the previous owner had it 5, and it's the same battery that was on it when he bought it) so I'll need to go pick up a fresh one. I'd also misplaced my jump pack, and the battery location makes jump starting really, really difficult, so I decided to call it quits. I decided to go out and pull the battery off before work this morning, but it was being stubborn-so it looks like my trip to the parts store will also involve buying a battery terminal puller.

One other thing-when I was checking everything out last week, I did a quick check of the vac advance unit. The "quick check" involves sucking on the hose and seeing if it holds vacuum. Unfortunately, I met no resistance on that. A little bit closer of a look showed that apparently the cast iron heater pipe that runs on top of the valve cover had melted through a portion of the plastic vac advance pipe. I cut back the melted portion, but the pipe was now to short to reach the carburetor. I patched it back together with a short piece of Tygon tubing, but I need to add a replacement pipe onto my next order. I did, however, go through and check out the vac advance with my Mityvac and dialback light and it SEEMS to be working(it advances the appropriate amount with the correct amounts of vacuum, at least).

In my time owning the car, I've had the head off twice, which on the first occasion included increasing the compression ratio and a bit of creative engineering to get what should have been a bolt-on swap working correctly. I've also had the engine and transmission out, fitted a replacement transmission, and of course did a lot of "might as wells" while doing that job(clutch, motor mounts, etc). The rings are on their last legs, so I'm going to rebuild a spare bottom end with a small amount of overbore(.020" over, which won't appreciably increase the displacement-it's for wear) and of course a somewhat hotter camshaft. It's going back together with a factory 4 speed w/electric overdrive-a really nice upgrade to the car that lets you cruise at 70 at 3K rather than 4K rpms.

 

[cube]

I get your point but it depends on how you define 'made'. Many, many years ago (late 80s) I worked in the press shop of a car plant in the UK. Even way back then not only did we press bodies for our own companies production but we also pressed for Japanese, French and Swedish car companies on a contract basis. (I often thought French consumers would have been horrified had they known the origin of parts of their cars )

Yes, there can be parts from everywhere, but a carmaker will normally attempt to source content regionally for real plants.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A BMW or Mercedes made in the US might not be worse than one made in Europe. Sames goes for Lexus. But they are not authentic so I would not buy them.

I would buy a Golf assembled in Brazil if it is made to European standards because it is not a luxury car.

I already posted those stats elsewhere. I was referring to the European safety recalls I linked above.

My Golf is a luxury to me!
[doublepost=1555007944][/doublepost]

any of you car owners DIY?

Not really. Used to be in my teens and twenty’s. These days it’s just washing and detailing.

 

[quagmire]

It's mischaracterized in the sense that saying "a platform pushing 30 years old" implies that a 2019 Charger rolling off the line is just a Mercedes W210 from 1996 with some Dodge bodywork thrown on. This completely ignores that a) the LX platform from 2004 was already back then a modified version of the E-class and included some S-class components as well, and b) that the LX platform was heavily modified in 2011 for the Charger, which is now on the LD platform, and in 2015 for the Challenger, which is now on the LA platform.

Also, you can only make a full-size sedan like the Charger weigh so little. It's not trying to be a small, but nimble M3. Even the BMW 5-series can weigh over 4300 lbs. You could of course use lots of expensive high-strength alloys, but then you raise the price of the vehicle substantially. The Charger and Challenger are playing perfectly in the area of cheap power. Nowhere else can you get a sedan with a V8 making almost 500hp for only $40k. Just to get a V8 sedan anywhere else, add $20k to the price.

Didn’t mean to imply the platform hasn’t been modified. But it still dates back almost 30 years now. The old W-Body was still ancient despite how many times GM modified it until finally put to pasture 2-3 years ago. But that is certainly a reason why they are so cheap. The platform is pretty much already paid for outside of some further modifications.

I respect the Challenger at least for what it is( all engine and straight line performance). But the vehicle needs that 485 HP to have similar performance to cars that weigh less( such as the Mustang and Camaro). To the consumer, that doesn’t matter most likely as it is the cheapest ( and most practical) of the bunch. But still recognize that it’s weight is a major handicap. Like the Zeta platform was for the 5th gen Camaro( among other issues with the 5th gen).

any of you car owners DIY?

Outside of oil changes and changing the wheels between my summer OEM wheels and my 18” winter tire set, not much DYI. Am coming up on a cabin filter change. Looks easy enough in theory, but would be scared breaking the attachment points of the glove box.

 

[cube]

My Golf is a luxury to me!

For me VW is rather boring, no offense intended. I prefer SEAT or Škoda, especially if they come from their brand country, even if they are mainly German.

 

[Apple fanboy]

For me VW is rather boring, no offense intended. I prefer SEAT or Škoda, especially if they come from their brand country, even if they are mainly German.

Boring? Have you ever seen a Golf R or GTI?
I’m a pretty boring person though.