I don’t think it made every other Car ‘irrelevant’, it depends on the segment of cars you’re actually comparing here. But in terms of this car, it’s obviously very much a standalone specialty vehicle in terms of what it’s offering with the tech/power. But on the flip-side, this is a huge milestone for GM and I look forward to the actual T/E’s.
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The Car Thread ... !
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I don’t think it made every other Car ‘irrelevant’, it depends on the segment of cars you’re actually comparing here. But in terms of this car, it’s obviously very much a standalone specialty vehicle in terms of what it’s offering with the tech/power. But on the flip-side, this is a huge milestone for GM and I look forward to the actual T/E’s.
While not every car, a lot of them for sure. Supra, GT500, Cayman, ZL1. Why would you buy any of them over the C8?
On the face it blows every sports car in its price class out of the water.
I'd say the Supra is DOA at this point. I'd still buy a GT500 just because it's a GT500. You'd have to convince me a whole lot to buy a Cayman. I like Caymans, I do, but not at the outrageous prices they go for. If someone wants one, wait until the end of year sale on anything left on the lot. A few of the Porsche dealers near us slashed prices hard on leftover Caymans because they didn't want them on the lot anymore. Nice colors and options, too.
Reviews of the Corvette aren't out yet, but I doubt it compares well to a Porsche.
A sports sedan is a separate thing so the BMWs, Audis, Lexus, and Mercs of the world are fine, but the Supra, the Ford GT and the Acura NSX are put to bed by this thing on first blush.
After a few days of making my mind up, I do really like that Corvette.
It was just the rear wasn't so sure about, but now I am.
Can't wait for more special editions.
It was just the rear wasn't so sure about, but now I am.
Can't wait for more special editions.
The GT500 to me is a hard sell compared to this, but the styling of the two are very different and the power is much greater, so I could see an argument for the Ford. But the fact that the MSRP of the GT500 is over $10k higher even without all the absurd ADMs we’ll see would make that a very hard sell. Though if you’ve got $100k to blow on a car, who cares about the price difference I suppose. C8s may also see a lot of ADM for the first model year as well.
Yeah this doesn’t touch sport sedans really. Most people getting a sport sedan need the two-in-one combo of practicality and performance they offer. That’s pretty much where I find myself personally. I’ve got a pretty low opinion of GM, but I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t love to own one of these, were it not out of my price range and I didn’t need the practicality of a sedan.
I briefly considered a pre-owned C7 Corvette when I went with the S4. I'm in the same boat as you. Fact is, sports sedans can be taken everywhere, they can go over speed bumps without much though and they're still fast and fun.
I would make a Corvette my second daily but I don't think I'm inspired to ever have three cars.
I've very much had sports sedans-and one in particular-on my mind today after seeing the 2004 Lincoln LS I wrecked back in 2017 out on the road(or rather in a parking lot) today. I had that car for 9 years and nearly 100K miles(56K when I bought it, 153K when I sold it) before the unfortunate "incident." I was happy to see that it's still around, but also wish I'd kept it and fixed it...
In any case, 15 years have done a lot for the sports sedan. I still look up to the E39 M5 as something of a benchmark, although considering where the value is going on them I don't see myself ever owning one. More recently, the Chevy SS has caught my attention.
In any case, I think that there's a place for them, and they will always appeal to me. As it is now, I have a practical 4 door front wheel drive sedan for daily duties, and a classic roadster for fun. Paradoxically, my daily driver is actually faster, but it's nowhere near as much fun as the hot and loud MG(not to mention that the MG is rear wheel drive as opposed to wrong wheel drive). I'm okay with not having a sports sedan now since I'm at a point in my life where having two cars isn't an issue, but that may not always be the case.
In any case, 15 years have done a lot for the sports sedan. I still look up to the E39 M5 as something of a benchmark, although considering where the value is going on them I don't see myself ever owning one. More recently, the Chevy SS has caught my attention.
In any case, I think that there's a place for them, and they will always appeal to me. As it is now, I have a practical 4 door front wheel drive sedan for daily duties, and a classic roadster for fun. Paradoxically, my daily driver is actually faster, but it's nowhere near as much fun as the hot and loud MG(not to mention that the MG is rear wheel drive as opposed to wrong wheel drive). I'm okay with not having a sports sedan now since I'm at a point in my life where having two cars isn't an issue, but that may not always be the case.
Comes down to preference. If the 'Vette specs materialize and aren't paper figures, it makes more sense to get the 'Vette. Though, I'd personally buy the GT500 if I was in the market for an obscenely loud and fast card. I wouldn't have issues driving a GT500, but I'd feel older if I were driving a 'Vette.
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When did you get an S4? I thought you had an A4?
Supra, not quite the same price/market space, a Premium Supra is ~$55K, a C8 + a decent/better trim level (2LT or 3LT) + Z51 = $70K, that's a notable price difference in that segment
Cayman, available manual, Porsche owner experience (this is far superior in my experience), better fit and finish, possibly better driving dynamics
GT500, Shelby name equity/"collectability", way more power (will be faster in many performance metrics), possibly better seating/visibility (I know people who like Vettes, can easily buy them, but do not like the seating ergonomics)
ZL1, available manual, easily tuned for another +100HP, will be faster in some performance metrics
Also, with the GT500 (non-CFTP) and ZL1, you've got rear seats, they're small, but if you have kids, it's awesome being able to take the whole family on a cruise-in. The ZL1 is also available in a convertible, and even a targa roof isn't a substitute (I say this having had multiples of both).
Some people won't like the styling (especially some Corvette "purists"), sure it's got all the basic mid-engine design elements, it's low, flat, has big side ducts (like most of the design studies coming out of engineering design colleges), plus some Vette-esque touches, mostly carry forward design language from the C7 (which in itself, lost some of the Vette vibe).
Additionally, I think it's easy not to want to address it, but let's do it anyway
Some people will just not own a domestic, I have a love for vehicles from every manufacturer, but clearly there's a certain ownership stigma and/or conversely, a brand equity value on non-domestics (particularly German). To be clear before someone 'herfs derfs', I don't have this, but many people do - it's why people will buy a performance inferior lower end model 911, for $30K more than a GT350.So the Corvette isn't just an automatic fit for some buyers, there's still a mix of price, looks/design, it being a 2-seater, not being as fast in some categories (at least this initial model), Chevrolet brand / general ownership experience, fit and finish, seating / driver ergonomics, etc.
Really enjoyed reading this, I never knew that these kinds of cars were made!guess i'll reveal now what im buying
this is the Car im buying
View attachment 845986
its an Invacar Model 70
a vehicle designed and built by AC Cars Ltd of Cobra fame, and also built by Invacar Ltd,
the Model 70, was a vehicle designed for people with disabilities which limited their mobility, and was primarily leased out to said people for free by the British government
commonly known in the UK as an "invalid carriage" they were designed to be very adaptable to the users needs, with over 56 different control scheme combinations, which meant even if you had 1 arm and no legs you could still drive one
the Model 70 was the last of the invalid carriage type vehicles, a class of motorised vehicles built specifically for the disabled, Model 70 was commissioned by the British government as a replacement of earlier invalid vehicles which people had deemed unsuitable, invalid vehicles before the Model 70, where very crude and basic machines with manual gearboxes, villiers motorcycle engines, or very simple electric drive trains
AC was given the contract to design develop and build the Model 70, AC carried out all the development work and built them themselves, although Invacar Ltd was a pioneer with invalid vehicles in the past, Invacar was only contracted to build the Model 70 and had no input on the design/spec of them, specs wise Invacar Model 70's are identical to AC Model 70's
(invacar is also a colloquial term for any sort of 3 wheeled vehicle built for the disabled in the UK, a bit like how some people call all vacuum cleaners "hoovers")
the Model 70 was a completely new design from the ground up compared to any previous machines mechanically, with a Fibreglass Body mounted to an all new strong steel chassis, with an automatic CVT Salsbury transmission coupled to an AC Made gearbox for selecting drive neutral and reverse, all powered by a 493cc Steyr puch flat twin engine, with Power sent to the wheels via a Fiat 500/126 Diff and drive shafts, suspension in the front was Leading arm Parallelogram suspension and a gas adjustable shock, with independent coil over suspension in the rear with gas adjustable shocks
(the overall body design was carried over from one ACs previous designs, however mechanically/under the skin the Model 70 was completely different than anything else)
the Model 70 was designed to carry the driver plus a folded wheelchair, with a sliding seat, and sliding doors for easy cabin access
Passenger carrying was forbidden
99% of all Model 70's where built for and leased out by the government, and sadly the government had a policy of destroying any and all invalid vehicles that where withdrawn from service, and in 2003, all Model 70's still in use where withdrawn from service and scrapped
as such out of about ~18,000 made, there are only 79 documented survivors across the globe, most of which were ones that managed to avoid scrappage by the government, (either by officially being donated to museums, or unofficially, by being saved from scrap yards and the like, or just having been flat out stolen!)
the one im buying, was one of about only 50 Model 70's that were sold privately to a individual rather than to the government (only about 4 or 5 private Model 70's are thought to still exist)
(anyone could outright buy a Model 70 new from AC or Invacar if they wanted to, but it made little sense when you could get one leased for free from the government)
the Model 70 was produced from 1971 to 1978, production finally ended as the government announced the end of the Invalid vehicle scheme in 1977 and the modern day motability scheme was introduced to help provide disabled people with regular cars adapted to suit their needs
the invalid vehicle contract AC had with the government is what provided a lot of the income that enabled AC to build their famous sports cars, and for Invacar Ltd to build their famous Greeves motorcycles
you might be asking yourself why am I getting one
well a Model 70 parked on the side of the road was one of the first cars that stood out to me at a very young age making me ask my mum "whats that and why does it only have 3 wheels?!" to which my mum responded "it was a car built for the disabled"
and I was rather fascinated by this strange small blue 3 wheeler
they also have a very fascinating history, and they have been very fascinating to research and learn about them
as such im very enthusiastic about them
there's VERY little information on the internet about them, and most what you do find on the internet is false (they were never banned from the road, none had 600cc engines from the factory, and and no they were not banned from Motorways, you could always drive a Model 70 on the motorway)
they were also a very important part of social history in the UK and invalid vehicles where once a common view on every street, but they sadly vanished overnight without much notice
but im hoping to change that
with so very few survivors, its much easier said than done! but I have finally tracked one down
(My life situation is not really setup for owning a car, but at the same time due to being disabled myself I need a car to be able to leave the house, and if im going to go through all the effort blood sweat and tears of getting a car im going to make sure its one that I really want, and not just some cheap rubbish
they may not look like much, but they are much quicker and handle much better than people expect them to, thanks to the fairly advanced suspension setup, and relatively wide track, with a low center of gravity and most of the weight on the rear wheels. (and with the driver sitting in the center of the car)
they only weigh about 410Kg, and as such even with only 20 horse power, they are rather rapid! with a reported top speed of 82Mph! while I have not had that confirmed, I have seen a Confirmed 70Mph out of one
and they will cruise comfortably at about 50-55Mph
here's a brochure for the Model 70 from Invacar
View attachment 845992
it gives a good overview of the 3 main control schemes that were available
for example here is a an all hand controller tiller setup
and here is a Tiller control setup with some foot controls
View attachment 845994
here's a steering wheel control scheme with foot controls
and heres a steering wheel setup with hand controls
the most common type found and made was the handlebar type, with the tiller coming in second, and the steering wheel version being the rarest
here's a picture of a conventional control scheme setup
View attachment 845997
heres a picture of an AC Model 70
View attachment 845998
up until June/July 1974, Model 70's had 12 inch wheels, however after that date, production switched to 10 inch wheels and tyres borrowed from the Mini, which gave a lower ride height and better handling (via said lowering, and the wider 10 inch tyres)
heres an early Invacar Model 70 (1972) on 12 inch wheels and tyres
View attachment 845999
heres an engine bay shot of an Model 70
View attachment 846001
and heres what the gearbox and transmission looks like
View attachment 846004
and heres what the underside of a Model 70 looks like, minus its drive line
View attachment 846005
I hope this all makes sense to everyone! and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask and ill try my best to answer them
If this is the case, find me a low mileage CPO 991.2 Turbo S (under 10k miles) for $70k once the 992 Turbo comes out.
I'll buy it, even if it's piss yellow or turd brown.
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Styling? Curb appeal? Brand cachet? Ownership experience? Manual transmission? Build quality?
True, if you absolutely want a manual, you’ll have to go elsewhere. I’m sure some people will have their own reasons for why they’d take one of those over a C8, but objectively speaking the C8 is far and away the clear winner on paper.
Supra aka BMW-Z4 in drag vs. something made by GM? -> not even a question
MustangGT500? -> Used M4,RS4, AMG-something sounds like a better deal
Cayman aka a proper Porsche vs. something made by GM? -> even less of a question
ZL1 aka something made by GM vs. something made by GM? -> "irrelevant" defined
Well the list-price for the Stingray is 91k€, there are like 20 dealerships in Germany and it's still made by GM.........
If you live in Germany is it surprising that you’d prefer a German car? My comment referred largely to American consumers. German cars are overpriced for what you get here.
Something that will be expensive to maintain and overly complicated? Or a reliable Small Block V8?
GT500 or something even like Carplay is nickle and dimed out of your wallet?
Something less capable, but certainly has better brand snobbery for the same price or screw image, stop caring what others think of you, and buy the best bargain mid-engine sports car there is?
So I can spend less money upfront on something that is cheaper and will cost less to maintain in the long run. Sounds like a win win to me.......
We all lose when we are blind to a particular brand or make( or in this case country of origin).
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A lot of is the heavy cost on an American car, too. This is before high displacement costs of performance cars over econoboxes. The Corvette's figures are nice, but the car isn't that pretty. The C6 was a pretty Corvette. The C7 was pretty, too. This new one is nice in some places, low effort in others.
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Cheaper, but still fairly expensive. You're making it sound as if a Corvette is dirt cheap to maintain, especially this new one that has more tech pumped into it than prior Corvettes. Without third party reviews done by people not beholden to GM, all this talk is useless. For all we know this Corvette may run into some serious problems a year down the line that becomes an expensive fix unless GM takes it on the chin.
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You'd be surprised how many Americans prefer foreign over American, and not expensive cars.
I can’t wait until the Porsche fans start coming up with reasons why a 718 or 911 is better than a C8.
I’m sure it’ll be highly subjective and align closely with people who can also hear the difference between a $2,000 amplifier and a $5,000 amplifier.
I’m sure it’ll be highly subjective and align closely with people who can also hear the difference between a $2,000 amplifier and a $5,000 amplifier.
Oh I know. I was mostly throwing stereotype for stereotype. To dismiss a car simply due to the brand/company is wrong and that is what he did.
There is a lot of hype surrounding the C8 right now. I don't think it will doom the Supra or the GT500. Maybe it would if performance numbers for the price is all that mattered. The hype will eventually die down. People who initially went, " Forget Supra, I am going C8" may go back and change their mind. But people who have been longing for the Supra's return will probably still pick up the Supra. People who love the lore of the Mustang, will probably still pick up the GT500. For those who want a premium practical performance vehicle, sure a M4/C63/RS4 will probably be more for them. The C8 may pick up some of the neutral people, but it won't doom those models.
You forget the typical Corvette buyer is very different from the other brands. Most Chevy dealers don't even let you test drive the car, even if you pulled up in a car twice the value of the 'Vette. You're overestimating how successful this 'Vette will be with people who have a history of preferring other brands or other sports car segments.