The Car Thread ... !

[44267547]

I considered putting this in the “What’s on your mind” thread, or the “What are you trying to keep yourself from buying” thread, but settled on The Car Thread.

And so, at a stage of my life when I arguably should be beyond such endeavors, I have recently been toying with the idea of (read: giving some serious thought to) modding my existing Charger R/T AWD for increased performance as an alternative to purchasing a late model Scat Pack.

Crazy, right? Probably, but hear me out.

V8 AWD Chargers are comparatively uncommon, and after 2014 FCA discontinued making them except for the Police version. Seems they didn’t sell all that well in the civilian market. Most people don’t even know that such a creature exists. But I had an ‘09 AWD, and liked it very much, especially in inclement weather. Based on that experience I decided to purchase the newest V8 AWD Charger available, figuring I’d have it for a good long while.

And after driving it for a year and half, even though I live in a place that doesn’t get much snow, I still love it.

And while it accelerates nicely, I just wish it had more power. Not for street or track racing, and certainly not for being able to lay down smoking swaths of rubber on the pavement. I want more power for safe passing, as we have a lot of two lane roads in these parts, and for the pleasure of accelerating to the maximum speed at which I am not risking a ticket. For hitting the go pedal and smiling.

How to make more power? Buy it or build it. For building, the central modification would be adding a supercharger. Along with that comes additional work to the cam and lifters, possibly the bottom end, plus brakes and suspension. The result would be in the neighborhood of 500 HP at the wheels.

A newer SP would, of course, be turnkey, other than likely having to purchase a set of new tires, and possibly brakes.

It turns out the costs of upgrading my car vs purchasing a late model SP are pretty comparable.

One would probably have some of the original warranty, the other wouldn’t. Ease of resale would be much better for the SP. And so forth, down the list of pros and cons.

Bottom line, one would be AWD, the other wouldn’t.

The AWD, modded, would be quite rare. No stripes, decals, what have you. Bone stock exterior. A real sleeper.

And the AWD already has the color and options I want (ok, except for the heated steering wheel), and is paid for.

I haven’t modded a car in years. Certainly some of the wrenching would be hired out. I’d also do some of it myself. God help me, it sounds like fun.

I think you know what I’m about to say, as we’ve had this discussion before .😁

Here’s what I would do if I were you. My first question for you, have you driven a Scat yet? If you haven’t, I think you should. I think you should find out specifically if it’s a car for you or not, or if it totally changes your perspective moving forward in your modding decision. I already posted my initial impressions on the Scat (Pros/Cons) and talked about it numerous times, so you have an idea of what I think about it being an owner. Personally, what I really like about the Scat more than anything, is the ZF8 speed and 6.4 SRT engine is in second. Also, since were on the discussion of reliability/modding, it’s worth noting that the drivetrain on the Scat virtually has zero issues.

Now, I’m not talented enough to do my own work in terms of ‘heavy modifications’ with the drivetrain, but if you [Aside from your own work] have a shop that can really put the time/effort into making your RT exactly what you want it to be and if that is your ultimate decision, then I say go for it.

On a side note:

If you can sacrifice Apple CarPlay and a few other tweaks that were added to the Scat over the years, you can find a 16’ with low miles for a steal (There’s very few difference from Year-to-year). They’re out there, and I don’t know if that is something that would ultimately be a factor if you traded/sold your RT in place if you decide to get a Scat.

 

[Matz]

@D.T. and @Relentless Power

I appreciate your being the voices of reason, at least in this case .

Yes, it’s fun to think about, but again, I’m at a stage in life where modding a car to that extent probably doesn’t make much sense. I want my car to be fast, but I want it to be reliable. Since there are so few examples of this particular model being supercharged, it’s hard to say what the long-term prospects are for its staying intact. But modding inherently means greater risk.

To RP’s point, before going too far down this rabbit hole, I just need to go test drive a SP. To be honest I’ve been avoiding that, because in all likelihood the outcome would be a major expenditure on my part, probably in the not-too-far-distant future.

 

[D.T.]

To heck with the Scat Pack, Hellcat or __nothing__ Been seeing $13K+ discounts on new HCs!

 

[Matz]

To heck with the Scat Pack, Hellcat or __nothing__ Been seeing $13K+ discounts on new HCs!

$13k is a hefty discount. Where are you finding such deals?

 

[44267547]

To RP’s point, before going too far down this rabbit hole, I just need to go test drive a SP. To be honest I’ve been avoiding that, because in all likelihood the outcome would be a major expenditure on my part, probably in the not-too-far-distant future.

I just want to comment on this specific part of your post. I don’t know your financial situation (Being you mentioned Expense), but I do want to mention some side tangents in terms of side-cost for the Scat Pack. Aside from maintenance, my insurance is actually relatively cheap, specifically just because it’s a four-door sedan (Plus, my driving record is immaculate). My Mustang GT insurance is considerably higher just because it’s a coupe.

Also, something that goes unmentioned about the Scat that others really don’t know, [Of course that really entails how you drive it obviously], but it does cylinder deactivation, very seamless, it’s perfect for highway driving, it does have affect on the fuel, and then obviously when you ‘heavy accelerate’, it transitions back to beast-mode. 😁

But still, if you do drive one Matz, please let me know what you think of it, I’m curious to know your impressions.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I just want to comment on this specific part of your post. I don’t know your financial situation (Being you mentioned Expense), but I do want to mention some side tangents in terms of side-cost for the Scat Pack. Aside from maintenance, my insurance is actually relatively cheap, specifically just because it’s a four-door sedan (Plus, my driving record is immaculate). My Mustang GT insurance is considerably higher just because it’s a coupe.

Also, something that goes unmentioned about the Scat that others really don’t know, [Of course that really entails how you drive it obviously], but it does cylinder deactivation, very seamless, it’s perfect for highway driving, it does have affect on the fuel, and then obviously when you ‘heavy accelerate’, it transitions back to beast-mode. ?

But still, if you do drive one Matz, please let me know what you think of it, I’m curious to know your impressions.

My Golf does that. I’ve always been curious to know if it’s the same 2 cylinders it runs on when in slow moving traffic. In other words does your engine wear evenly?

 

[quagmire]

My Golf does that. I’ve always been curious to know if it’s the same 2 cylinders it runs on when in slow moving traffic. In other words does your engine wear evenly?

Not sure on VW's or FCA's system, but system on the LT1 in my Camaro is it is always the same 4 cylinders that are deactivated.

Now GM with their newest trucks have introduced dynamic skip fire which the engine can go as low as firing on 1 cylinder. Not sure if this new system do they vary the cylinders that get deactivated or it's a specific order in which they get deactivated.

 

[D.T.]

My Golf does that. I’ve always been curious to know if it’s the same 2 cylinders it runs on when in slow moving traffic. In other words does your engine wear evenly?

Dodge MDS (their cylinder deactivation) shuts down the same 4 every time (we have a DD/RT).

 

[44267547]

My Golf does that. I’ve always been curious to know if it’s the same 2 cylinders it runs on when in slow moving traffic. In other words does your engine wear evenly?

That’s a great question, and I don’t have the answer for it. But I believe @bunnspecial discussed that very same thing a few pages ago in this thread. I’m sure he has more insight here than I.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So engine wear would be uneven? Not an issue on my low mileage, but for the owners buying them in 10 years time could be an issue.
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That’s a great question, and I don’t have the answer for it. But I believe @bunnspecial discussed that very same thing a few pages ago in this thread. I’m sure he has more insight here than I.

I think he always has more insight when it comes to maintaining an engine. Especially old ones!

 

[D.T.]

So engine wear would be uneven? Not an issue on my low mileage, but for the owners buying them in 10 years time could be an issue.

It's been discussed, though there are some long life / high mileage MDS vehicles that haven't had any issues. I think because it doesn't kick in that much, heck, on the DD forum, most people report the same MPG with 'ECO' turned off (disables MDS), because that's mostly at highway speeds, and the Hemi motors are barely breaking a sweat at 75 anyway

BTW, there's some weird redundant answers / questions in here sometimes, because ... ignore function

 

[quagmire]

So engine wear would be uneven? Not an issue on my low mileage, but for the owners buying them in 10 years time could be an issue.

Shouldn't be too big of an issue unless you can drive for hours at the same speed on a completely flat road where the uneven heating/cooling could cause any issues. I doubt the time a cylinder is not firing will be significant to cause a difference. At least in my driving habits as I make sure to press the gas enough to get it back into V8 when I want to accelerate.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I get more traffic than I like. But it’s probably less than a 10th if the time it kicks in.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

As I posted this in another thread I thought I might as well post here. Not exciting and a very common car on the roads but here is my Mercedes C-Class.

 

[quagmire]

Got myself a Challenger R/T for a day as a rental( was hoping for Mustang GT or Camaro SS, but oh well). I know the purpose of the car is solely to be a big in your face cruiser with a V8. It does it really damn well. The 5.7L is appropriately loud and it is by far more practical than my Camaro. But that is where the positives for me end. Driving experience besides noise is lackluster. It understeered on a curve the Camaro and probably even Mustang could take in stride. Steering has zero communication and hard to predict where the car will go based on how much you turn the wheel. I’m just completely unimpressed with the vehicle. Just not my type of vehicle as I don’t want a car with a V8 slapped in and that is what the R/T flavor is. But it does sound glorious.

 

[0388631]

As I posted this in another thread I thought I might as well post here. Not exciting and a very common car on the roads but here is my Mercedes C-Class.

The C Class is going upmarket at this time with the CLA being the intro models. It was half expected with BMW pulling the same stunt. Wales looks particularly sunny today or is that a summer photo?

 

[44267547]

Yeah, I don’t care for the Challenger either. I do like that Dodge reflects it to be sorta what it looked like historically (Versus the Charger is it’s own rendition), but every time I see a Dodge Challenger driven in my area, it’s usually an old guy in his 50’s with a bad back. To be honest, I just think it’s to bulky and unrefined. I think the SRT versions have some decent tweaks cosmetically, but it doesn’t take away that it’s a whale of a vehicle. In terms of the 5.7 motor, it’s bulletproof that’s matured a lot over the past decade or so, even the Pentastar 3.6 V6 is a stout motor with adequate ‘Go’.

[One of the rental options when I was in vacation in Fort Myers during the summer, was I could have opted for the 5.7 Challenger, but I went with the 2019 Jetta, which had abysmal AC of any vehicle I’ve ever used.]

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The C Class is going upmarket at this time with the CLA being the intro models. It was half expected with BMW pulling the same stunt. Wales looks particularly sunny today or is that a summer photo?

I don’t feel like it’s too upmarket as there’s so many of these about, but Merc have positioned them so they are no longer bottom of their range. Even the upmarket brands need to satisfy all markets these days seeing as the new car market has shrank at an alarming rate since the new tax bands were introduced a few years back.

Photo was taken in July hence the flowers in bloom, but it was just as sunny in Wales today ironically.

 

[0388631]

I don’t feel like it’s too upmarket as there’s so many of these about, but Merc have positioned them so they are no longer bottom of their range. Even the upmarket brands need to satisfy all markets these days seeing as the new car market has shrank at an alarming rate since the new tax bands were introduced a few years back.

Photo was taken in July hence the flowers in bloom, but it was just as sunny in Wales today ironically.

It isn't an overnight or single generation process. I'm very impressed with the A8's safety features. I'm curious to see if the next-gen S class can match it or reveal silly stuff. Just not a fan of touch with haptic feedback everything.

 

[robbieduncan]

As I posted this in another thread I thought I might as well post here. Not exciting and a very common car on the roads but here is my Mercedes C-Class.

How do you find that? I am considering a C350e to replace our current E61 BMW. The BMW is slowly falling to bits (it's 12 years old and various electrical systems are starting to play up). I think we could live with a C-Class sized estate and the plug-in hybrid option would make a lot of sense for us as we do quite a bit of short -range local driving.

 

[2984839]

BMW is baffling sometimes. I saw a strange button in my M3 that looked like a speaker, so I went digging through the manual to figure out what it was. Turns out it's a button that makes the sound system quality better. Why even have a button there? Why is that not just the default? Would I ever want worse sound?

The sport button is similar in that it increases throttle response. Again, why? I got the M3 because the whole car is supposed to be a sport button, why would I ever want a worse throttle response? My Abarth had the same thing, and I had the same question for that car too.

Car companies need to stop overthinking it.

 

[D.T.]

BMW is baffling sometimes. I saw a strange button in my M3 that looked like a speaker, so I went digging through the manual to figure out what it was. Turns out it's a button that makes the sound system quality better. Why even have a button there? Why is that not just the default? Would I ever want worse sound?

The sport button is similar in that it increases throttle response. Again, why? I got the M3 because the whole car is supposed to be a sport button, why would I ever want a worse throttle response? My Abarth had the same thing, and I had the same question for that car too.

Car companies need to stop overthinking it.

I think with audio, some of the "enhancement tech" can be worse for some people, who might want a less tweaked, non-EQ'ed sound vs. a more flat, accurate presentation. i.e., better == different, not necessarily, umm, better

Yeah, the drive modes and their tendency to reset to the less sporty, lower performance modes on a start cycle are kind of funny - it makes taking the car out this whole process, like I get in the car, plug in my iPhone, set the exhaust most to Sport or Track, switch the drive mode to S+ ... takes me an hour to pull out of the garage

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

How do you find that? I am considering a C350e to replace our current E61 BMW. The BMW is slowly falling to bits (it's 12 years old and various electrical systems are starting to play up). I think we could live with a C-Class sized estate and the plug-in hybrid option would make a lot of sense for us as we do quite a bit of short -range local driving.

Mine is a C200 and in the 4 months I’ve owned it I’ve had no issues. It’s a 1.6 Diesel and my concerns about it being under powered were quickly put to bed, it flies. I was put off BMW this time around despite owning a 5 series a few years back and had a few sensor issues with that. Friends and family with electrical gremlins swayed me away this time around.

 

[robbieduncan]

Mine is a C200 and in the 4 months I’ve owned it I’ve had no issues. It’s a 1.6 Diesel and my concerns about it being under powered were quickly put to bed, it flies. I was put off BMW this time around despite owning a 5 series a few years back and had a few sensor issues with that. Friends and family with electrical gremlins swayed me away this time around.

Cool. I was hoping to make this 5 series last until we could get an electric replacement. But we had some water ingress this past weekend and a lot of electrical issues (mostly now resolved). But it's a 12 year old car and clearly showing it's age. So a PHEV might make a good compromise until a full electric option is there (at a price I can afford)

 

[quagmire]

I think with audio, some of the "enhancement tech" can be worse for some people, who might want a less tweaked, non-EQ'ed sound vs. a more flat, accurate presentation. i.e., better == different, not necessarily, umm, better

Yeah, the drive modes and their tendency to reset to the less sporty, lower performance modes on a start cycle are kind of funny - it makes taking the car out this whole process, like I get in the car, plug in my iPhone, set the exhaust most to Sport or Track, switch the drive mode to S+ ... takes me an hour to pull out of the garage

Thats a bit lame Ford doesn’t let you default exhaust setting to be full loud upon start up. Only track and rain/ice resets to tour upon every startup and will stay in sport. Even then I have the exhaust decoupled to the mode so it is in track all the time( valves open) and I can also have the steering and suspension set to my preferred setting if I wanted to( but I leave it coupled to the mode).