The Car Thread ... !

[S.B.G]

Sandbox, I like the 2.3 models. They are widely popular for a reason, not necessarily just because they’re ‘cheaper’ under the 5.0 L, but they’re a lot of fun. I’ve driven plenty of them, and even though they don’t have that true V8 performance and exhaust note, their underestimated heavily given the fun factor, but that little 2.3 motor really moves (Add the weight differential changes the dynamic with the ecoboost option).

Well, I don't have anything against the EcoBoost engines and I'm happy with the one in my Lincoln. I just wasn't impressed with the one I drove this afternoon and without any empirical evidence, my Lincoln's lower powered EcoBoost felt quicker from the line and at normal highway speeds compared to the Mustang. It wasn't until it hit about 4,000 RPM's that I felt it really start to push me back in the seat and by then it was already going about 70 or 80 mph.

I have little doubt that it has a respectable top end, but I'm also not going to be driving 150 mph everywhere I go either.

The available torque on the model I drove was higher up in the RPM's than I would have expected from that type of car, even for an EcoBoost engine. Again, my Lincoln has more pep than what I felt in that Mustang.

It could very well be the rear end that that model had, as DT mentioned, which made it feel slower than what I was expecting. But this was just the base EcoBoost model, it wasn't the EcoBoost Premium model where Ford says the power band is wider.

You’re obviously not the type of person to ‘aftermarket mod’ your car

Genuinely curious what makes you believe that about me.

(Which is perfectly fine), and you don’t have to be in order to enjoy a car that’ll give you an edgy sport performance with the revisions of the new Mustang styling cues shared amongst the other trims. I seriously don’t think the eco-boost Mustangs receive enough credit, but they’re not for everyone who may be seeking higher performance.

Edit:

I didn’t even mention the 10 speed. I initially knocked those transmissions when they first released, but I do think it’s the most significant improvement to the 2018 + Mustangs. Probably the more significant upgrades coming from anything under the 18’ model.

I suppose my expectations are a little off perhaps, being out of the performance car game. I grew up with my dad building race cars for the drag strip and for well, plain embarrassing other drivers on the road.

I remember he built up a small block 350 with a bunch of racing components and made a custom quad-exhaust from the headers back and put it in a 1977 Oldsmobile Starfire. Talk about a sleeper! He figured it had about 600 to 700 HP in it when he finished it. I remember the car blowing the doors off of a brand new (at the time) Thunderbird Turbo Coup who had a running head start and his turbo spooling up and screaming, and that old Starfire was at a dead stop at the light. He ended up having to de-tune it by taking the racing cams out of it because it was just too much to handle trying to drive it to work.

I dunno, it's stuff like that I fondly remember. Traditional American muscle car power is what I like and grew up with. Whether it was factory V8's or custom builds, I liked it all. I remember helping as a kid my dad's friend put a new crate motor 350 into his Corvette (late 70's model) and making it run and sound awesome.

I just want to have something reminiscent of that which I remember growing up with. My problem right now is that I just don't know what I want.

 

[44267547]

Well, I don't have anything against the EcoBoost engines and I'm happy with the one in my Lincoln. I just wasn't impressed with the one I drove this afternoon and without any empirical evidence, my Lincoln's lower powered EcoBoost felt quicker from the line and at normal highway speeds compared to the Mustang. It wasn't until it hit about 4,000 RPM's that I felt it really start to push me back in the seat and by then it was already going about 70 or 80 mph.

I have little doubt that it has a respectable top end, but I'm also not going to be driving 150 mph everywhere I go either.

The available torque on the model I drove was higher up in the RPM's than I would have expected from that type of car, even for an EcoBoost engine. Again, my Lincoln has more pep than what I felt in that Mustang.

I wasn’t indicating you’re against the ecoboost motors, I just think sometimes there’s an adjustment period for that specific drivetrain. You mentioned that it didn’t really ‘push you back‘ in your seat until reaching speeds over 70 MPH, which is interesting, because I find it to be the opposite, where you feel the power Immediately in the first few shifts, and then it completely drops off. The eco-boost motors definitely don’t feel very top end to me.

Is your Lincoln the front wheel drive or AWD model? And I believe your trim is the 2.0 L/245HP variant? The reason I ask, is if your Lincoln is the all-wheel-drive model, I think that would definitely make an impact in terms of why you feel it’s more powerful, especially with the responsiveness.

Genuinely curious what makes you believe that about me.

Because you’re old, that’s why. 😁

I’m kidding. Actually, the way I worded that looking back, wasn’t very well put, But it definitely wasn’t meant to be personal if you construed it that way.

The reason I said that, is being that you own a Lincoln MKZ and I believe your previous vehicle was a Ford focus if I recall, you just don’t seem like the type of person that would be into ‘aftermarket tuning‘ from reading your previous post(s). And if I gather correctly, you seem like the type of person that would want an -all in one package- where you have the performance that you need ‘right out of the box’ and all the luxury features to pair. Like you said, you’re not planning on doing ‘150 mph‘, why would you want additional power if you were to opt for something like the 5.0 L for example. Which the coyote engines are stock at around 460 HP.

Here’s my problem with the eco-boost/5.0 Mustang, and it’s nothing to do with the performance, they’re Literally a ‘dime a dozen‘. They’re absolutely everywhere and saturated to the point where they’re just too common. In terms of ‘bang for your buck‘, the Mustang definitely is the pinnacle, but it’s annoying how many people have one and you just blend in. And personally, my vehicles (6.4 Scat, 3.5 SHO Eco aren’t nearly as common), but that’s just my thoughts on that.

I suppose my expectations are a little off perhaps, being out of the performance car game. I grew up with my dad building race cars for the drag strip and for well, plain embarrassing other drivers on the road.

I remember he built up a small block 350 with a bunch of racing components and made a custom quad-exhaust from the headers back and put it in a 1977 Oldsmobile Starfire. Talk about a sleeper! He figured it had about 600 to 700 HP in it when he finished it. I remember the car blowing the doors off of a brand new (at the time) Thunderbird Turbo Coup who had a running head start and his turbo spooling up and screaming, and that old Starfire was at a dead stop at the light. He ended up having to de-tune it by taking the racing cams out of it because it was just too much to handle trying to drive it to work.

I dunno, it's stuff like that I fondly remember. Traditional American muscle car power is what I like and grew up with. Whether it was factory V8's or custom builds, I liked it all. I remember helping as a kid my dad's friend put a new crate motor 350 into his Corvette (late 70's model) and making it run and sound awesome.

I just want to have something reminiscent of that which I remember growing up with. My problem right now is that I just don't know what I want.

So my question would be to you, [being that there’s some heritage for old school muscle cars from your upbringing], why not opt for something like that? Unless you absolutely want/must have luxury features (I.e. Heated/cooled, CarPlay, ect) then that would be out of the question. Plus, if you opt for something like an old-school muscle car, then it gives you the option of attending car shows as maybe a side hobby.

If you can’t tell from my avatar and my previous post, I’m Participating in the ‘Mecca‘ of bringing home an old school muscle car in Scottsdale in January, where I will be an actual bidder. I want something that is fully restored , but probably no resto-mods, or cruise-in classics.

 

[S.B.G]

Is your Lincoln the front wheel drive or AWD model? And I believe your trim is the 2.0 L/245HP variant? The reason I ask, is if your Lincoln is the all-wheel-drive model, I think that would definitely make an impact in terms of why you feel it’s more powerful, especially with the responsiveness.

Yes, it's the AWD model and you have the trim level correct as well.

Because you’re old, that’s why. 😁

LOL

I’m kidding. Actually, the way I worded that looking back, wasn’t very well put, But it definitely wasn’t meant to be personal if you construed it that way.

No, I never took any offense to it at all. I was just curious what made you think that being that I rarely talk about cars on the forums.

The reason I said that, is being that you own a Lincoln MKZ and I believe your previous vehicle was a Ford focus if I recall, you just don’t seem like the type of person that would be into ‘aftermarket tuning‘ from reading your previous post(s). And if I gather correctly, you seem like the type of person that would want an -all in one package- where you have the performance that you need ‘right out of the box’ and all the luxury features to pair. Like you said, you’re not planning on doing ‘150 mph‘, why would you want additional power if you were to opt for something like the 5.0 L for example. Which the coyote engines are stock at around 460 HP.

Clearly you have a good memory which contributed to your assessment above. Yes, my previous car was the Focus, just an SE trim level though. But it was a fun little car to drive around. Previous to that I had a Fusion which I also liked. It wasn't anything special, but I liked it for what it was. Prior to that I had two F-150's and a Ranger.

Part of the reason for my 'out of the box' choices as you point out has a lot to do with my career and financial situation back then and some other life choices for which are not topical for this thread. But, in the last two years my career has advanced significantly and I have more disposable income to play with.

Going really fast is fun but also dangerous on the roads so I don't normally do that. But where I do get pleasure and can do nearly any time, is accelerate from a stop or at more normal highway speeds. I enjoy the acceleration more than I enjoy top speed.

Here’s my problem with the eco-boost/5.0 Mustang, and it’s nothing to do with the performance, they’re Literally a ‘dime a dozen‘. They’re absolutely everywhere and saturated to the point where they’re just too common. In terms of ‘bang for your buck‘, the Mustang definitely is the pinnacle, but it’s annoying how many people have one and you just blend in. And personally, my vehicles (6.4 Scat, 3.5 SHO Eco aren’t nearly as common), but that’s just my thoughts on that.

Yeah, I get that. It adds a bit of spice to ownership when you know you have a car that not many others have. The value becomes diminished when you see the same car everywhere else.

So my question would be to you, [being that there’s some heritage for old school muscle cars from your upbringing], why not opt for something like that?

I mentioned that in one of the posts yesterday, too. That's certainly an option I am considering which holds a lot of weight too. What I'm thinking is to wait until next year when my lease runs out and then look for a used Mustang, or something similar, that catches my eye and buy it. That would be my toy car and one I'd have no problem wrenching on or modding.

There is a certain feeling of pride that accompanies you when you yourself have built an engine or made significant changes to it, versus, just buying a performance car and not having done anything to it on your own.

Then, if I go that route, I'd just lease some inexpensive AWD or 4x4 for use in the winter and bad weather days.

Unless you absolutely want/must have luxury features (I.e. Heated/cooled, CarPlay, ect) then that would be out of the question.

Nope, not a requirement if I'm looking for a toy to have fun with.

Plus, if you opt for something like an old-school muscle car, then it gives you the option of attending car shows as maybe a side hobby.

That sounds like it would be a lot of fun!

If you can’t tell from my avatar and my previous post, I’m Participating in the ‘Mecca‘ of bringing home an old school muscle car in Scottsdale in January, where I will be an actual bidder. I want something that is fully restored , but probably no resto-mods, or cruise-in classics.

Yeah, I am somewhat familiar with Barrett Jackson, but not on a personal level. One of my board members is a huge Corvette guy and he frequently goes out to Vegas (I think that's where they do it-I could be wrong) to the shows and sometimes bids on cars.

One car I have, I have a lot of fun with. I have a department car I got from my Sheriff after they decommissioned it. A 2014 Dodge Charger, RWD. It has all the police equipment stripped out except for the front push bar and A-pillar spotlight. Basically it's a V8 with seats and a steering wheel. I've nick-named it the Raped Ape because it's insanely fast.

I was talking to one of the deputies who helps outfit new patrol cars and he told me that that car was one of the fastest cars they had in the fleet. Despite it being the same car as all the others, for whatever reason, it was quicker than all the rest. The first couple of times I drove it, I broke the wheels loose on accident without even trying or intending to. It's that touchy and powerful. In about two blinks of an eye that car goes from 0-80 from a stop. I love it!

 

[bunnspecial]

Well, I got word that my engine block and crank went to the machine shop today. Hopefully it will be back next week and we can start putting it back together.

I don't know an overbore size yet, but I'm tempted to tell them to go straight for 40 over. A bit of math tells me that puts me up to 1850cc, which still isn't huge but is at least a bit of an increase from what it was.

The new head came in at 37cc per combustion chamber, and some back of the envelope math tells me that if the block gets decked 20 thou or so, I should end up at about 9.6:1. I'm afraid to go beyond 10:1 especially since I don't know how safely I can run it on 92/93 octane there, but anything in the 9.5-9.7:1 range should be safe.

 

[D.T.]

Yeah, I get that. It adds a bit of spice to ownership when you know you have a car that not many others have. The value becomes diminished when you see the same car everywhere else.

I've owned cars you wouldn't see another of for months and months, and cars that are more common - they can both be fun. I'd also prefer to not have a car that's rare, because nobody wants one

More common cars mean lots of options in the aftermarket, a bit of a "club" kind of vibe, larger online owner communities (for talk, parts, help, DIY suggestions, etc.), and they can be something with a rich history (Mustangs, Corvettes, Porsche 911). It's also a bit regional in terms of commonality, in the SF area where I consulted for a bit, if you threw a rock, you'd hit a BMW and I wouldn't see a Mustang for weeks

 

[44267547]

@SandboxGeneral

I always appreciate your thoughtfulness in your replies, they’re extensive and detailed, thanks for that. So here’s my thoughts below to your above post:

1.) The Barrett Jackson event I’m participating is held in Scottsdale, their largest event (700K+ cars), they have a bunch of ‘mini events’ that they hold across the country for different seasons around the year. I’m not familiar with the Vegas venue. I’m definitely bringing home a 60/70’s muscle car, And I’m talking a restored ride that will cross the auction block, and those cars can venture anywhere from $50k starting to $600,000. Oh yes, Stay tuned! I already have storage selected to have it shipped here whatever that might be in January! (It snows here.)

2.) Just my thoughts based off your post, I think you should opt for something From what you grew up with. And since you definitely don’t need to have certain luxury/comfort features, it opens up your possibilities even more to have a car that might have some more meaning to you versus just your modernized mustang today.

3.) I’ve modded all my cars over the years In some form or fashion, others more heavily. The picture you saw on the previous page of this thread with the new wheels/tires, that’s my latest addition of the SHO that is mildly modded. (Pics later.) If you ever do opt for the newer edge Mustang, there is a crazy amount of aftermarket parts, accessories for those cars, which I gather you know.

4.) Speaking of the Police Chargers. I drove an unmarked one for years until I retired it this last year. The 5.7 is a very strong motor, and the one I had was actually Pursuit rated with the Blackout kit that I chose direct from the factory.😁

Never a boring day outside the office!😁

I discussed it a bit more extensively in the link below:

Picture of Your Car (2018)

Lincoln Mark VIII LSC. Seems to be exotic in Germany:D

forums.macrumors.com

 

[S.B.G]

I've owned cars you wouldn't see another of for months and months, and cars that are more common - they can both be fun. I'd also prefer to not have a car that's rare, because nobody wants one

More common cars mean lots of options in the aftermarket, a bit of a "club" kind of vibe, larger online owner communities (for talk, parts, help, DIY suggestions, etc.), and they can be something with a rich history (Mustangs, Corvettes, Porsche 911). It's also a bit regional in terms of commonality, in the SF area where I consulted for a bit, if you threw a rock, you'd hit a BMW and I wouldn't see a Mustang for weeks

Yup, pros and cons all the way around for having a more rare car or a more common car. Being in Michigan, obviously I see far more domestic vehicles than I do imports. Mustang's, Camero's, Challengers and whatnot are very common. In fact, daily on my way into work I see test vehicles for Chrysler coming through town. Sometimes all masked up, sometimes not so much. My town is very close to their HQ but still a decent enough drive to make testing vehicles worthwhile. I'm also very close to one of Ford's proving grounds sites as well, but I never see any test vehicles from them, or GM.

Fun story I just remembered...

I used to have a friend who ended up getting a job at the GM tech center in Warren, MI. He was sort of juiced in because his dad was a GM engineer there. But he had to bring his own tools to work there. At the time he needed someone with a truck to help him bring his tool chest in. He called me. At the time I had a 2003 F-150 SuperCrew and we borrowed a trailer from another friend and I drove my Ford to the GM tech center.

We pulled in and drove through the compound to the shop he'd be working at. They opened the big door so we could pull in. Here we were driving in a Ford to the heart of GM's tech and testing facility. When I parked it, I looked off to my left and saw a Cadillac CTS-V sitting there which at the time, still hadn't been sold to the public. That was pretty cool.

The looks we got were comical too. They were probably thinking why the **** is there a Ford truck in here and who the hell are those guys? hahaha. Thankfully, I wasn't in a Toyota or a Nissan truck because I might not be here to tell this story today!

@SandboxGeneral

I always appreciate your thoughtfulness in your replies, they’re extensive and detailed, thanks for that. So here’s my thoughts below to your above post:

1.) The Barrett Jackson event I’m participating is held in Scottsdale, their largest event (700K+ cars), they have a bunch of ‘mini events’ that they hold across the country for different seasons around the year. I’m not familiar with the Vegas venue. I’m definitely bringing home a 60/70’s muscle car, And I’m talking a restored ride that will cross the auction block, and those cars can venture anywhere from $50k starting to $600,000. Oh yes, Stay tuned! I already have storage selected to have it shipped here whatever that might be in January! (It snows here.)

Well, I certainly look forward to seeing what you end up with!

2.) Just my thoughts based off your post, I think you should opt for something From what you grew up with. And since you definitely don’t need to have certain luxury/comfort features, it opens up your possibilities even more to have a car that might have some more meaning to you versus just your modernized mustang today.

That's good advice. I'm just still way up in the air on what I want to do. Do I want something older, cooler and easier to work on? Or do I want something newer, cooler and perhaps not as easy to work on? I dunno. But I have plenty of time to weigh my options, wants, desires and wallet.

3.) I’ve modded all my cars over the years In some form or fashion, others more heavily. The picture you saw on the previous page of this thread with the new wheels/tires, that’s my latest addition of the SHO that is mildly modded. (Pics later.) If you ever do opt for the newer edge Mustang, there is a crazy amount of aftermarket parts, accessories for those cars, which I gather you know.

I don't have any first-hand knowledge of what aftermarket stuff is out there for the contemporary Mustangs, but I know enough to know that there would be a plethora of options given the unique history of the car and the rabid enthusiasts out there.

4.) Speaking of the Police Chargers. I drove an unmarked one for years until I retired it this last year. The 5.7 is a very strong motor, and the one I had was actually Pursuit rated with the Blackout kit that I chose direct from the factory.😁

Never a boring day outside the office!😁

I discussed it a bit more extensively in the link below:

Picture of Your Car (2018)

Lincoln Mark VIII LSC. Seems to be exotic in Germany:D

forums.macrumors.com

I have to be careful when driving the Charger because it's not my car, but belongs to the department and bears the County name and logo on the side- but not the Sheriff's logo anymore. So I have to be responsible with it as I am representing the County when I drive it.

But when no one is around....... If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[bunnspecial]

That's good advice. I'm just still way up in the air on what I want to do. Do I want something older, cooler and easier to work on? Or do I want something newer, cooler and perhaps not as easy to work on? I dunno. But I have plenty of time to weigh my options, wants, desires and wallet.

Just go for a Fox body with a 5.0L Windsor and call it a day

(in all seriousness, around here in Kentucky that's a car that's stereotyped to a...certain demographic...that might also enjoy an El Camino, an older Camaro, and styling their hair like Billy Ray Cyrus, but it's also a dead simple and reliable engine with lots of aftermarket stuff to fix the emissions choked factory options and change the somewhat primitive live-axle handling).

Part of why I like old English cars so much is not so much their reliability, but rather how simple they are and despite their quirks how easy they are to work on. You're not going to break any speed records in one(although I still want to import a factory MGB GT V8 with the Buick/Rover V8) but they're a ton of fun to drive.

 

[S.B.G]

Just go for a Fox body with a 5.0L Windsor and call it a day

(in all seriousness, around here in Kentucky that's a car that's stereotyped to a...certain demographic...that might also enjoy an El Camino, an older Camaro, and styling their hair like Billy Ray Cyrus, but it's also a dead simple and reliable engine with lots of aftermarket stuff to fix the emissions choked factory options and change the somewhat primitive live-axle handling).

Part of why I like old English cars so much is not so much their reliability, but rather how simple they are and despite their quirks how easy they are to work on. You're not going to break any speed records in one(although I still want to import a factory MGB GT V8 with the Buick/Rover V8) but they're a ton of fun to drive.

Oh yeah, that's certainly something I was thinking about. My folks had a 1988 GT convertible. Dad said he had a hell of a time trying to find one because they were selling out long before they hit the showroom's.

Here are the only photos of that Mustang that exist of which I know of. Dad might have some stored away that I don't know about. You can even see that 1979 Olds Starfire I spoke about yesterday in the background.

 

[D.T.]

Oh yeah, that's certainly something I was thinking about. My folks had a 1988 GT convertible. Dad said he had a hell of a time trying to find one because they were selling out long before they hit the showroom's.

Here are the only photos of that Mustang that exist of which I know of. Dad might have some stored away that I don't know about. You can even see that 1979 Olds Starfire I spoke about yesterday in the background.

Nice. The hot ticket for performance was always the LX, a few thousand less expensive, a little lighter, dropped all the lower aero panels, great starting point for a build! Those 1988 GTs were like 200HP, which in context of today (where unless you're approaching 500, you don't rate), is pretty funny.

Yeah, it really depends what you want, how much you want to spend, a classic is fun, but not so much for a road trip car / daily and it's certainly missing some things, including safety features, but they do have a ton of character.

I'm dazzled by cars that can get decent mileage, with 400+ HP, are pretty comfy, have tons of convenience, safety and electronic features, all in the same package. There's really no longer a need to compromise anything.

Of course, like you said, if it's mainly the light-to-light straight line performance you're after, you could buy something like a Tesla Model 3 Performance, and it'll be incredible in that capacity (even though it's a bit soulless )

 

[bunnspecial]

So, what does one do when one finds out that NGK has discontinued their preferred spark plug for their classic car?

Of course, the only logical thing for one to do is visit every auto parts store in a 30 mile radius and buy what is still in stock. That might be a bit much for an afternoon, and one might end up with only-say-18 spark plugs-but it can be spread over a couple of days and maybe extend that stash to 30 or 40 plugs.

As I said, that's the only logical option to do, right?

 

[44267547]

Love the grainy throwback photo! I agree, the fox body Mustang somehow never seems to lose their luster. There’s a blue Fox in my area that’s been in a few car shows, and I’d bet he probably has 15K under the hood alone in upgrades [Not even including cosmetics]. I think the most impressive thing about the fox body, is how good they even sound stock. I’ve never had the privilege of driving one, they’re not difficult to find for sale, the problem is, is locating one that actually has been maintained properly. But as mentioned above, a very stout Motor.

 

[S.B.G]

So, what does one do when one finds out that NGK has discontinued their preferred spark plug for their classic car?

Of course, the only logical thing for one to do is visit every auto parts store in a 30 mile radius and buy what is still in stock. That might be a bit much for an afternoon, and one might end up with only-say-18 spark plugs-but it can be spread over a couple of days and maybe extend that stash to 30 or 40 plugs.

As I said, that's the only logical option to do, right?

Absolutely! It's the same concept Elaine on Seinfeld used when they stopped making the Today Sponge.

Love the grainy throwback photo! I agree, the fox body Mustang somehow never seems to lose their luster. There’s a blue Fox in my area that’s been in a few car shows, and I’d bet he probably has 15K under the hood alone in upgrades [Not even including cosmetics]. I think the most impressive thing about the fox body, is how good they even sound stock. I’ve never had the privilege of driving one, they’re not difficult to find for sale, the problem is, is locating one that actually has been maintained properly. But as mentioned above, a very stout Motor.

I was casually looking at Fox Body's online yesterday and almost all of them are very reasonable priced. Some were in very good shape and others not so much.

 

[S.B.G]

I came across this fun and interesting video this afternoon.

Now it has me thinking more seriously about a Camaro.

I've never cared for the styling of the Camaro's from the very first one through all generations until the 2010 redesign. Prior to 2010 I didn't like them, but that's not to say I hated them though. They just weren't a head-turner for me, and some generations were rather hideous.

But when the 2010 design came out I really liked it and I really love the latest look even more. It is now a head-turner for me.

After watching it and the Mustang in that video, it seems the Camaro has far more torque and gets up and goes even better than the 5.0 'stang.

I just don't know what to do! I wish I had Jay Leno's money so I could just buy all the cars I want like he does.

 

[44267547]

The Camaro and Mustang share almost the identical same 10 speed, and I believe GM corroborated with Ford on the implementation of the 10-speed. Anyways, the only issue I have with the Camaro, is (the styling is definitely subjective, the 2020 revision corrected that), the visibility of the Blindspots through the rear windshield. But the Camaro has a really unique feature where you can use the rearview mirror (I believe that’s only available in the 2SS trim) as a camera to see the background surroundings. If I were to opt for a Camaro, I’d stay away from anything under a 2018, quite a few changes were made to the 18+, with the 10 speed a nice addition.

 

[D.T.]

After watching it and the Mustang in that video, it seems the Camaro has far more torque and gets up and goes even better than the 5.0 'stang.

Torque doesn't make a much sense in a vacuum, gearing, where in the RPM range it's made (i.e., “It is better to make torque at high rpm than at low rpm, because you can take advantage of gearing.”), etc., make a huge impact. I had a Supra that made a good bit less TQ than a Camaro, until about 4K, then though 8000RPM it made 2x the HP, and ran 10s at ~137MPH

Also, that's not a Perf Pack GT, so it's got tiny little tires, seems like the lazy rear gear ( the MT82 manual was revised for MY18+, so it's important to at least get the 3.73, and they almost need a 4.10 ...)

I cross shopped the Camaro, including the ZL1, too many checks in the cons column for me. FWIW, I owned 4 Corvettes, so I'm certainly not "anti-Chevy )

Find a GT Perf Pack with the A10, put it in Sport + mode, tell us what you think

 

[bunnspecial]

With my MG engine rebuild in full swing, I went looking for and found a copy of the factory "Special Tuning" manual.

http://www.sbcc.ca/pdf2/MGB%20Special%20Tuning.pdf

I'm essentially at what they call a "Stage 3" tune, aside from a bit lower C/R and using a significantly more aggressive cam than they specify.

The big thing I'm lacking is using larger diameter carbs. Stock was dual 1 1/2", and a Stage 3 in the tuning manual recommends 1 3/4" carbs. Everything I've read says not to even bother with carbs that large and that they can cause serious driveability problems, but the factory seemed to think otherwise.

Of course, the issue these days is FINDING a set of 1 3/4" SU carbs. A single one is no issue, but finding the "left and right hand" set is probably a bit more difficult, or at least costly as that's going to probably be a Jaguar/Big Healey/maybe MGC carb set. The linkages will also probably be a problem, and require me to either make or heavily modify them. Dual ZS 175s from a TR6 might be viable also, aside from my having trouble stomaching putting a Triumph part or a ZS carb on my car . I need to research too, as some Volvos and Saabs used SUs, and one of those might be a source of dual -6 series.

 

[quagmire]

I wouldn't necessarily say stay away from a 2018 or older if he was going to get the M6. The Tremec 6060 is a wonderful manual transmission especially compared to the Getrag MT82 that is in the Mustang. Heck considering my driving routine has changed over my ownership, I am now sort of regretting not getting my Camaro with the M6. But yeah I would be a bit weary of the A8. Common issue with the A8 is it can begin to shudder on light throttle applications( while cruising). GM has come out with a new transmission fluid for the A8. So far results have been positive. For those who caught it early, for the large part it hasn't returned with the new fluid. Now if they didn't and it caused torque converter damage, then it would lead to torque converter replacement. I haven't had any issues with my A8 and I just had the transmission fluid changed to the new fluid as a preventative measure. If I was to buy a used 18 or older Camaro I would want to look up the service history of the vehicle and if there is no record of a fluid change, make that a condition of the purchase. And maybe not buy one that exhibited the shuddering, but with no torque converter replacement to be on the safe side.

As for visibility, you do get used to it and I haven't had an issue with it. The 2018+ Mustang GT and Camaro SS when confined to the typical straight line metrics( 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc) are pretty much driver races. If given enough room, the GT will overtake the Camaro since the Camaro is geared really tall once in 5th gear and loses steam( yay fuel economy!!! ). Where the Camaro will shine is everything else when it comes to the driving experience. The Alpha platform is a sublime chassis and handles really really well. The steering is also sooo good. I love going up this road that is uphill and curvy on my way home from work, I downshift into 3rd or 4th to make the LT1 V8 sing with the dual mode exhaust( valves open) while tossing it around those curves. Though this only applies to the 6th gen Camaro. The 5th gen riding on the heavier and bigger Zeta platform did not handle well at all. I wouldn't have bought a Camaro if it drove like the 5th gen.

If you want a V8 on a budget, for 2020 GM did introduce the Camaro LT1( not to be confused for the 1LT trim, don't get me started on GM's latest marketing/naming convention, looks at you Cadillac with putting a badge advertising the torque in nm on the car....). It has the front end of the I4/V6 models which gives it a more retro look that harpens back to the 1st gen. It isn't as track focused as the SS so it doesn't have the staggered summer tires setup( has all season tires of the same size all around), some of the auxiliary coolers for the transmission and differential, etc. You also lose the options of getting magnetic ride control, HUD, etc. I don't think you plan to track it and if you don't mind the missing options that you can get with the SS, the LT1 would be a good consideration.

Definitely give the Mustang GT and Camaro LT1/SS a good look. When I was in the market, I test drove a 2016 Mustang GT( both in stick with the performance pack and auto) and the Camaro SS( again both stick and auto). The 2016 GT had the 2nd gen Coyote V8 that made less power and had an A6 for its auto. For me since I was focused on driving experience when comparing, the Mustang wasn't close. The Camaro by far offered a better driving experience in my view and I was willing to overlook its short comings. The Mustang will be slightly more practical( bigger trunk/trunk opening and better vis), but just didn't speak to me when it came to driving it. The Coyote sounded a bit muted( the Mustang didn't have the dual mode exhaust at the time as the 2018's forward do) and wasn't as composed as the Camaro. I have not driven the 2018+ Mustang GT. But the 3rd gen Coyote V8 with that dual mode exhaust does sound glorious. Both are very good vehicles. Just a matter what you want out of the vehicles on which one to go for.

 

[44267547]

Quagmire makes some really good points about the Camaro, especially given his experience as an owner (Nice photo BTW with the palms). The only side tangent I want to say about the Camaro, [And this really doesn’t pertain everybody’s situation], is the resale value is terrible. I don’t know what exactly it is regarding that, but From a performance Standpoint, you couldn’t go wrong with either one, but in terms of sheer popularity, Mustangs (More specifically, the coyote) just has a much stronger following.

 

[bunnspecial]

Reading is unhealthy...

I have two spare MGB intake manifolds here, and have been reading some thoughts/ideas on how to make them flow more freely.

The stock manifold is a pair short runners, one for each carb, and a straight shot from the carb into each intake port(the intakes are siamesed, so 1+2 share a port in the head, as do 3+4).

There is also a cross-over pipe between the two runners. It has some limited utility to allow "cross talk" between the two carbs, but its biggest purpose is to provide a bunch of vac ports for various purposes.

Depending on year, this might be the PCV valve, EGR valve, and distributor vac advance(Home market/Euro spec 75-77 cars would also pull brake assist off there, but brake assist in the US was always done on a late single carb manifold).

Looking at the above, first of all my year doesn't have a PCV valve-the crankcase vent feeds directly into the carbs. Similarly, my year uses ported advance(which is preferred on these cars) and pulls directly off the rear carb. That only leaves the EGR valve, which, along with the rest of smog pump system, was long gone on my car before I bought it.

Right now, I have a vac nipple on there, but mostly use it for diagnostic purposes to hook up a vac gauge. I've wanted to fit a dash vac gauge, but need a "round tuit" and don't know if I'll ever get to it.

That leads me to some further thoughts about using JB Weld or similar epoxy to block off the crossover pipe and then completely smooth out each of the intake runners. Of course, in doing that, I'd also port-match both the ported head and also the carbs.

I'm probably putting way too much thought into this, but it seems kind of pointless to drop $1200 on a freer flowing cylinder head only to have it choked by the manifold.

 

[quagmire]

Quagmire makes some really good points about the Camaro, especially given his experience as an owner (Nice photo BTW with the palms). The only side tangent I want to say about the Camaro, [And this really doesn’t pertain everybody’s situation], is the resale value is terrible. I don’t know what exactly it is regarding that, but From a performance Standpoint, you couldn’t go wrong with either one, but in terms of sheer popularity, Mustangs (More specifically, the coyote) just has a much stronger following.

Resale should be close to the bottom of the priority list. This isn't a dig at you relentless, but I am tired of seeing the usual comment from some people, " Yeah it is a good car, but resale is crap". Are you really going to buy a vehicle that you didn't quite like as much because of poor resale value on the one you liked better? Cars are bad investments to begin with.

Now if you liked both cars equally or damn close to it, then I could see bringing resale value into the equation to help decide which one to go for. Maybe my perspective is wrong because I plan to keep my Camaro until the wheels fall off or I am buried in it( ), but for me I liked the Camaro that much better than the Mustang when I was in the market, resale value was never in my mind.

I am not that into the aftermarket scene, while I understand in general there is more aftermarket support for the Mustang, the aftermarket crowd for the Small Block's isn't that bad either. Though most seem to focus on the Gen IV's or earlier than Gen V, but there is decent amount of products for the Gen V's. The 2.0T has some aftermarket stuff. The V6 though doesn't appear to have any kind of aftermarket support.

And yeah I like that photo too. Obviously not my vehicle and was a general picture of the LT1 model, but certainly a nice setting.

 

[bunnspecial]

Being the cheapskate that I am and not generally a fan of buying new(anything), poor resale value is often a plus to me.

By shopping smart, I can often get a bargain on an otherwise nice and high spec car that's a couple of years old.

 

[44267547]

Resale should be close to the bottom of the priority list. This isn't a dig at you relentless, but I am tired of seeing the usual comment from some people, " Yeah it is a good car, but resale is crap". Are you really going to buy a vehicle that you didn't quite like as much because of poor resale value on the one you liked better? Cars are bad investments to begin with.

Now if you liked both cars equally or damn close to it, then I could see bringing resale value into the equation to help decide which one to go for. Maybe my perspective is wrong because I plan to keep my Camaro until the wheels fall off or I am buried in it( ), but for me I liked the Camaro that much better than the Mustang when I was in the market, resale value was never in my mind.

I am not that into the aftermarket scene, while I understand in general there is more aftermarket support for the Mustang, the aftermarket crowd for the Small Block's isn't that bad either. Though most seem to focus on the Gen IV's or earlier than Gen V, but there is decent amount of products for the Gen V's. The 2.0T has some aftermarket stuff. The V6 though doesn't appear to have any kind of aftermarket support.

And yeah I like that photo too. Obviously not my vehicle and was a general picture of the LT1 model, but certainly a nice setting.

Yup, you’re right and you pose a good question of would you (The buyer) really let resale value stand in the way of something that ‘checks all the boxes‘ for a car that you specifically want. And rightfully so, it shouldn’t be a hindrance if that’s what you truly like.

I guess I could use the SHO that I just purchased as example, those also drop significantly in resale value, simply because to the average consumer, they just see it as another Taurus, but it’s much more than that. But I didn’t let that stop me from purchasing it, and adding on additional modifications, enjoying the performance, ect.

In the end, it’s all about what you like, and sometimes it’s all to easy for someone to interject a knee jerk comment when there’s so much more involved in making a Purchased that is tuned Specifically to the buyer.

 

[S.B.G]

Resale value is only relevant to me if I am looking to buy something cheap. As @bunnspecial and @quagmire point out, when I buy a vehicle I tend to keep them until the wheels fall off. Of course my last few vehicles were leases so that's a different situation. But I've never looked at a car as an investment or what it's resale value is. Cars that are investments are usually going to be far outside my price range anyhow.

 

[bunnspecial]

Absolutely! It's the same concept Elaine on Seinfeld used when they stopped making the Today Sponge.

Somehow or another, I'd missed this one.

Yes, in the future, I'm going to have to decide if a particular car and/or tune-up job is "plug worthy."