The Car Thread ... !

[44267547]

Heat pump would be a great addition for sure.

As far as the chrome delete, it sounds like the Model 3 will be getting the Model Y treatment soon (Model Y comes with Chrome delete from the factory).

So it looks like your MY Model 3 just missed out on some key significant changes Tesla just announced this week with the Revamp Model 3, now including a heat pump add-on With an ‘efficiency package’, power operated trunk, all the cheap-tacky chrome is now deleted With blackout features utilizing from the Model Y, and now includes a heated steering wheel, three new wheel designs, auto-dimming mirrors, wireless phone charger, Updated trim for interior/steering wheel, ect.

Matt Maran discusses the changes at 21:35 in his video. [If you’re not familiar with him, probably the most reliable/mature source reporting anything auto news on YouTube.]

 

[AustinIllini]

So it looks like your MY Model 3 just missed out on some key significant changes Tesla just announced this week with the Revamp Model 3, now including a heat pump add-on With an ‘efficiency package’, power operated trunk, all the cheap-tacky chrome is now deleted With blackout features utilizing from the Model Y, and now includes a heated steering wheel, three new wheel designs, auto-dimming mirrors, wireless phone charger, Updated trim for interior/steering wheel, ect.

Matt Maran discusses the changes at 21:35 in his video. [If you’re not familiar with him, probably the most reliable/mature source reporting anything auto news on YouTube.]

Of all the additions, the ones I would want are the auto-dimming mirrors and the double paned windows. Other than that, I don’t need the rest of it. Heat pump is good for cold weather but I don’t drive that much and I live in Texas.

I have a wireless phone charger and we don’t have hard evidence of a heated steering wheels. The new center console looks pretty cheap, honestly and the phone charger isn’t covered.

The Chrome doesn’t bother me, but there are plenty of aftermarket deletes. Also, I don’t like that the Tesla logos are chrome still even though the rest is chrome deleted.

Yeah, so some nice changes to the Model 3, but I’m too busy loving the 3.6 0-60 time my model is getting me.

 

[44267547]

Yeah, so some nice changes to the Model 3, but I’m too busy loving the 3.6 0-60 time my model is getting me.

Well, I can tell you your biggest problem isn’t going to be what it doesn’t have, it will be the Po-Po attracted to your 0-60 time in that red rocket.😁

You couldn’t have chosen a better color combination with the red and white interior. I found as I purchase cars over the years, the enjoyment factor isn’t just performance, but how it looks. Red is growing to be one of my favorite colors of any car I have owned. [See avatar of my SHO.]

 

[D.T.]

Of all the additions, the ones I would want are the auto-dimming mirrors and the double paned windows. Other than that, I don’t need the rest of it. Heat pump is good for cold weather but I don’t drive that much and I live in Texas.

I have a wireless phone charger and we don’t have hard evidence of a heated steering wheels. The new center console looks pretty cheap, honestly and the phone charger isn’t covered.

The Chrome doesn’t bother me, but there are plenty of aftermarket deletes. Also, I don’t like that the Tesla logos are chrome still even though the rest is chrome deleted.

Yeah, so some nice changes to the Model 3, but I’m too busy loving the 3.6 0-60 time my model is getting me.

Yeah, I think it's a "If I missed it no big deal, but nice for new owners ..." sort of thing, plus, anytime you get to spend with something vs. not are points towards yours being better

BTW, I believe the WOTS is the batteries are also the revised Panasonic (2170s?) that are ~5% better, so some range improvement would come from those.

You've got a LR, correct? So that's a pretty decent bit quicker than the advertised spec (at least in that one metric). Are you getting that pretty consistently? Assuming you're using an onboard timing system.

We're definitely on deck for the DD/RT to be replaced by an EV, that's next May, so lots of time to decide, for new products to enter the market, to get a sense of how the non-Tesla charging network is evolving (that's a notable advantage of Tesla at the moment).

 

[AustinIllini]

I was running 4.4 when I bought it. Tesla released a software update which bumped it down to 4.2. Then they put an acceleration boost up for sale to get it down to 3.7 0-60. Absolute beast.

 

[AustinIllini]

Felt inspired to go visit friends in Richmond, VA And we decided to take the Model 3. 1400 miles one way from Austin to Richmond. I used A Better Route Planner to plan out the stops ahead of time and Tesla’s real world trip planner to determine how long we would be at each supercharger. We got in a groove where we would get to a super charger, plug in, and leave when the car said we would get to the next Supercharger with 15% battery.

Efficiency was mixed on highways at 75+mph so the range indication was a bit of a joke to be honest. Bought a front trunk cooler which fit the car perfectly, and while the car did get kind of dirty on the trip, we hit some light rain on the way back which cleaned the car up nicely.

Overall, the superchargers were great. Exceptions being Texarkana (in the parking lot of the Olive Garden) and Wytheville, VA, where there were 6 stalls and 9 cars wanting to charge. Never had an issue with a Supercharger being iced out. The 250kW level 3 charger in Nashville was amazing going from 10 to 80% in less than 20 minutes.

Pro tips for any would-be travelers (we ran into issues with these on our trip)

• In a super charger stop, the super chargers are usually uniformally arranged with one exception, which is the towing charger which is designed to super charge a vehicle with a trailer. Don’t take it if you’re not charging and if the super charger is level 2, don’t take the stall with the same number as the towing charger
• Avoid taking a charger next to another car. This is for privacy and to avoid sharing cabinet power (for the Level 2 chargers, each cabinet charges two superchargers).
• Back into the spot if the charger is in the back of the parking spot

Anyway, that’s my story. Looking forward to taking the car for another long trip.

 

[Huntn]

​

Most of you know I'm getting ready to sell my '82 Fiat Spider, but I've noticed an issue with it that I would like to resolve before hand if possible. I'm noticing that the battery goes dead on the car when it sits after a few days without a battery tender on it. I spoke to a local repair place who said I should put a fluke meter on the battery, see if there is an electrical drain and start pulling fuses to see if I can make the drain stop.

I just checked on Amazon and fluke meters are expensive. Are they just like amp meters of which I have a few of those or does a fluke meter do something different?
Any helpful suggestions? Thanks!

Update: A quick search seems to indicate that a Fluke meter is a brand name, but I found this link that talks about current vs voltage. I'm wondering if my Amp meter does what I need it to do to tell if there is a drain on the battery? Do I need a multimeter or a clamp meter?

Clamp Meters vs Digital Multimeters

A digital multimeter is essentially a voltage-measuring tool with some current abilities. A clamp meter is basically a current-measuring tool with some voltage abilities. They are distinctly different instruments, each with its own advantages.

www.fluke.com

 

[D.T.]

​

Most of you know I'm getting ready to sell my '82 Fiat Spider, but I've noticed an issue with it that I would like to resolve before hand if possible. I'm noticing that the battery goes dead on the car when it sits after a few days without a battery tender on it. I spoke to a local repair place who said I should put a fluke meter on the battery, see if there is an electrical drain and start pulling fuses to see if I can make the drain stop.

I just checked on Amazon and fluke meters are expensive. Are they just like amp meters of which I have a few of those or does a fluke meter do something different?
Any helpful suggestions? Thanks!

Update: A quick search seems to indicate that a Fluke meter is a brand name, but I found this link that talks about current vs voltage. I'm wondering if my Amp meter do what I need it to do to tell if there is a drain on the battery? Do I need a multimeter or a clamp meter?

Clamp Meters vs Digital Multimeters

A digital multimeter is essentially a voltage-measuring tool with some current abilities. A clamp meter is basically a current-measuring tool with some voltage abilities. They are distinctly different instruments, each with its own advantages.

www.fluke.com

Yeah, it's just a brand of multimeter, kind of the "reference brand".

Battery might just be going bad, I doubt your car has much drain, unless you've done things like aftermarket alarm, stereo, etc. It's not uncommon for a battery that's crapping out, so not hold a charge while sitting, but run the car OK, as long as it's staying charged from the alternator.

Here's what I'd do: run it, do a few start/stop/starts, you know, to make sure it's "topped off". Then park it, and disconnect the battery, so there's no way anything in the car is pulling any power. After a few days, reconnect, see if the battery held any power. If it didn't, probably a bad battery, if it did, very possibly some drain, then you can get all spelunky with a multimeter.

 

[Tigger11]

View attachment 976114​

Most of you know I'm getting ready to sell my '82 Fiat Spider, but I've noticed an issue with it that I would like to resolve before hand if possible. I'm noticing that the battery goes dead on the car when it sits after a few days without a battery tender on it. I spoke to a local repair place who said I should put a fluke meter on the battery, see if there is an electrical drain and start pulling fuses to see if I can make the drain stop.

I just checked on Amazon and fluke meters are expensive. Are they just like amp meters of which I have a few of those or does a fluke meter do something different?
Any helpful suggestions? Thanks!

Update: A quick search seems to indicate that a Fluke meter is a brand name, but I found this link that talks about current vs voltage. I'm wondering if my Amp meter does what I need it to do to tell if there is a drain on the battery? Do I need a multimeter or a clamp meter?

Clamp Meters vs Digital Multimeters

A digital multimeter is essentially a voltage-measuring tool with some current abilities. A clamp meter is basically a current-measuring tool with some voltage abilities. They are distinctly different instruments, each with its own advantages.

www.fluke.com

D.T.'s idea is really good, if you end up needing a multimeter to track down a drain, I'll send you one if you promise to send it back after you are done with new 9V battery? I have a couple, won't miss one for awhile.
-Tig

 

[D.T.]

Felt inspired to go visit friends in Richmond, VA And we decided to take the Model 3. 1400 miles one way from Austin to Richmond. I used A Better Route Planner to plan out the stops ahead of time and Tesla’s real world trip planner to determine how long we would be at each supercharger. We got in a groove where we would get to a super charger, plug in, and leave when the car said we would get to the next Supercharger with 15% battery.

Efficiency was mixed on highways at 75+mph so the range indication was a bit of a joke to be honest. Bought a front trunk cooler which fit the car perfectly, and while the car did get kind of dirty on the trip, we hit some light rain on the way back which cleaned the car up nicely.

Overall, the superchargers were great. Exceptions being Texarkana (in the parking lot of the Olive Garden) and Wytheville, VA, where there were 6 stalls and 9 cars wanting to charge. Never had an issue with a Supercharger being iced out. The 250kW level 3 charger in Nashville was amazing going from 10 to 80% in less than 20 minutes.

Pro tips for any would-be travelers (we ran into issues with these on our trip)

• In a super charger stop, the super chargers are usually uniformally arranged with one exception, which is the towing charger which is designed to super charge a vehicle with a trailer. Don’t take it if you’re not charging and if the super charger is level 2, don’t take the stall with the same number as the towing charger
• Avoid taking a charger next to another car. This is for privacy and to avoid sharing cabinet power (for the Level 2 chargers, each cabinet charges two superchargers).
• Back into the spot if the charger is in the back of the parking spot

Anyway, that’s my story. Looking forward to taking the car for another long trip.

Good tips, and good insight. Since you're not indoctrinated into the cult, your feedback is really helpful When I've mentioned [to a "fanboy"], "Oh, sitting at a designated charge spot for 30 minutes waiting for a charger, is a minor concern of mine", they get all cranky

So I've used ABRP in the past, set my account back up, set the car to a TM3 Performance, tested a few routes.

Our St. Aug to Universal, no stop, plenty of charging options at the resorts we stay at (heck, it could almost go round trip). Our standard trip to our place in The Keys (Tavernier), we do the Keys trip without needing a stop in the DD/RT, and that's with 6 people / 6 rollers and two massive tubs of dive gears on a hitch carrier - using the TM3P, it shows one stop, not too bad, but it's the longer trips where I think I start having some issues

Our FL to PA trip, is ~860 miles, close to 14 hours travel time, but 2 hours of charging time. We usually stop about half way, maybe closer to like 60% of the trip, in NC (fun hotel at the Shelton Vineyards), there's a charging stop in Mount Airy, that's almost the same location, might could swap hotels. I guess I'd consider that stop to fill to 100% (a "long break" on ABRP), which vary the other parts of the trip, looks like it removes a quick stop. A little longer charge time, but some of that is a complete stop anyway (in NC).

I see your TX to VA plots at 1451 miles, ~23 hours, so assuming you did a few overnight stops[?] (I don't do more than like 7, maybe 8 hours at a stretch). According to ABRP, that's nearly 4 hours of charge time. They plot out a lot of short stops, I also see $61 for charging cost (though that's about a 1/3 of what our DD/RT would cost).

Anyway, just kind of ruminating over our standard trips, heck, we probably won't even do that PA trip again (at least driving).

 

[44267547]

@Huntn

If it was me, I would take your car to a shop and have them do a battery load test to see if it’s a healthy battery or not as a starting point (They likely won’t even charge you for it, as it takes like two minutes.) I live in a cold state during this time of year, and a battery tender is almost necessary if the car sits, (which I know doesn’t apply to you). But I question how old your battery is in the car, as you never mentioned the age of when it was installed, ect.

Nice photo by the way.

 

[AustinIllini]

Good tips, and good insight. Since you're not indoctrinated into the cult, your feedback is really helpful When I've mentioned [to a "fanboy"], "Oh, sitting at a designated charge spot for 30 minutes waiting for a charger, is a minor concern of mine", they get all cranky

So I've used ABRP in the past, set my account back up, set the car to a TM3 Performance, tested a few routes.

Our St. Aug to Universal, no stop, plenty of charging options at the resorts we stay at (heck, it could almost go round trip). Our standard trip to our place in The Keys (Tavernier), we do the Keys trip without needing a stop in the DD/RT, and that's with 6 people / 6 rollers and two massive tubs of dive gears on a hitch carrier - using the TM3P, it shows one stop, not too bad, but it's the longer trips where I think I start having some issues

Our FL to PA trip, is ~860 miles, close to 14 hours travel time, but 2 hours of charging time. We usually stop about half way, maybe closer to like 60% of the trip, in NC (fun hotel at the Shelton Vineyards), there's a charging stop in Mount Airy, that's almost the same location, might could swap hotels. I guess I'd consider that stop to fill to 100% (a "long break" on ABRP), which vary the other parts of the trip, looks like it removes a quick stop. A little longer charge time, but some of that is a complete stop anyway (in NC).

I see your TX to VA plots at 1451 miles, ~23 hours, so assuming you did a few overnight stops[?] (I don't do more than like 7, maybe 8 hours at a stretch). According to ABRP, that's nearly 4 hours of charge time. They plot out a lot of short stops, I also see $61 for charging cost (though that's about a 1/3 of what our DD/RT would cost).

Anyway, just kind of ruminating over our standard trips, heck, we probably won't even do that PA trip again (at least driving).

We stopped in Nashville on the way and Memphis on the way back. I used a referral code so 1000 of the supercharger miles were 3.

 

[Huntn]

Yeah, it's just a brand of multimeter, kind of the "reference brand".

Battery might just be going bad, I doubt your car has much drain, unless you've done things like aftermarket alarm, stereo, etc. It's not uncommon for a battery that's crapping out, so not hold a charge while sitting, but run the car OK, as long as it's staying charged from the alternator.

Here's what I'd do: run it, do a few start/stop/starts, you know, to make sure it's "topped off". Then park it, and disconnect the battery, so there's no way anything in the car is pulling any power. After a few days, reconnect, see if the battery held any power. If it didn't, probably a bad battery, if it did, very possibly some drain, then you can get all spelunky with a multimeter.

The battery has already been replaced.

There is a third party radio, been in there for 10 years. It has a removable face. What concerns me is that when we had the ignition switch swapped out when the old one broke, where the car used to totally shut down, now it does not, in other words when the head lights used to go out with the ignition off, now they stay on, if they are left on. I’m going to remove the face of the radio because it’s hard to tell if it’s on or off. Turn off the battery conditioner and then check it in the morning to see what the state of the battery is.

My question is will an ammeter show the state of a battery charge by virtue of lower volts? Or would I need a clamp meter to see battery drain? If so what kind of a setting would be used?

 

[D.T.]

The battery has already been replaced.

Ah, you didn't mention that up front. How old is it? Like really new?

 

[bunnspecial]

@Huntn

There are a lot of potential sources for phantom drain, but one of the most common ones I seem to see is a bad rectifier pack in the alternator. It can zap one in a few days.

It’s worth at least having it tested.

 

[44267547]

Not much to see here, but mainly want give a shout out to third-party companies that are reputable with great products.To Me, it’s about the small touches with the car that make it more complete, so I ordered some aftermarket mats for the Camaro, as the originals are bland. I Would rank Lloyd Mats right up there with Weathertech, but just without the custom molded fit. [I chose the rubberized version over the carpet, so much easier to clean and manage.] A touch on the pricey side, just for the driver/passenger side, was $125, but as you can see, they look awesome.

 

[Huntn]

Ah, you didn't mention that up front. How old is it? Like really new?

You are right, I did not. It’s a couple of months old. Since the guy at the car place mentioned checking battery drain, that’s what I’m trying to figure out how to do that.

D.T.'s idea is really good, if you end up needing a multimeter to track down a drain, I'll send you one if you promise to send it back after you are done with new 9V battery? I have a couple, won't miss one for awhile.
-Tig

I appreciate the offer I already own several multimeters. Wondering if I need a fluke/clamp meter and am looking for advice on using the required device, settings required to observe an auto battery in the process of draining.

 

[D.T.]

We stopped in Nashville on the way and Memphis on the way back. I used a referral code so 1000 of the supercharger miles were 3.

Oh, holy smokes, so you did like 15 hours the first day (on ABRP it showed 9am to just after midnight to that destination from Austin, TX).

And I guess you followed the other stops as necessary, several on each day, it's interesting to see how they map out, smaller, incremental charging stops, I guess that gives you a little flexibility with stopping sooner, or longer. The planning is kind of a fascinating part of this, with an ICE, you just go, since the gas infrastructure is massive (though we got into a bad fuel state one trip up to PA, up around 77 where there's a long stretch of mountains and nothing else.)

 

[jeyf]

... appreciate the offer I already own several multimeters

they are easy to use u-know?
yes get a clamp thingy

anyways
over night battery discharge, even over a few days, thats still a lot of energy
so
maybe you can just look for the smoke flames??


this is too much fun:
-sell it quick on ebay
-if not: park it outside on the curb where the fire trucks can get to it
-tell them to use foam

 

[D.T.]

You are right, I did not. It’s a couple of months old. Since the guy at the car place mentioned checking battery drain, that’s what I’m trying to figure out how to do that.

I appreciate the offer I already own several multimeters. Wondering if I need a fluke/clamp meter and am looking for advice on using the required device, settings required to observe an auto battery in the process of draining.

Your MM (multimeter) is what you want, it's a pretty straight forward process: get to your battery, find your fuse box(es), then cable your MM to a 20-30a setup, if you've got clamps for the tips they're helpful or if it's straight probes, use some clothespins - what you're going to do is remove the negative battery cable and put the MM between the battery post and the cable. Set the range on the MM so you can read amps-to-milliamps, I think my nicer Craftsman has a 25a-250mA range.

Anyway, then with everything in the car off, no on/run, no lights, basically as it would be sitting in your garage, look at the draw on the MM, you'll probably see something, as most modern-ish cars have a few things that continue to operate while it's off (alarms, clocks, etc.), so seeing 10-20-30mA no big deal, you see the MM showing 100-200+mA (or more) something has gone rogue

So start pulling fuses while noting what circuit they handle (usually the box has a guide on the top, i.e., Fuse# >> Function), one at a time, if you pull one, and the MM drops down into a low mA current, that's the culprit, then you'll have to explore that component, e.g., stereo, wipers, whatever (bad motor, bad switch, etc.)

 

[bunnspecial]

Don’t get a clamp meter as most don’t work on DC(a few do, buy the last time I looked they were big bucks).

To rule out a battery issue for the sake of completeness, you can pull one of the cables(I’d do positive, but either is fine for this) see if it still goes down in a few days. If it does, you know it’s a bad battery.

For that matter, it’s worth going back to the basics. Starting is the single most power intensive thing your battery does(that’s why the B+ goes straight to the starter) and a poor connection can look like a dead battery when steating. Make sure your battery connections are all tight, and also that the engine ground strap is in good shape. I’m not shy about putting a new battery ground strap on every decade or so(they’re about $15 and are a generic part) it if not that I’ve change my fair share of terminals on old cables.

 

[Huntn]

Your MM (multimeter) is what you want, it's a pretty straight forward process: get to your battery, find your fuse box(es), then cable your MM to a 20-30a setup, if you've got clamps for the tips they're helpful or if it's straight probes, use some clothespins - what you're going to do is remove the negative battery cable and put the MM between the battery post and the cable. Set the range on the MM so you can read amps-to-milliamps, I think my nicer Craftsman has a 25a-250mA range.

Anyway, then with everything in the car off, no on/run, no lights, basically as it would be sitting in your garage, look at the draw on the MM, you'll probably see something, as most modern-ish cars have a few things that continue to operate while it's off (alarms, clocks, etc.), so seeing 10-20-30mA no big deal, you see the MM showing 100-200+mA (or more) something has gone rogue

So start pulling fuses while noting what circuit they handle (usually the box has a guide on the top, i.e., Fuse# >> Function), one at a time, if you pull one, and the MM drops down into a low mA current, that's the culprit, then you'll have to explore that component, e.g., stereo, wipers, whatever (bad motor, bad switch, etc.)

Thanks for explaining. I’ve got the big picture, was trying to clarify settings on the multi-meter and what I should look for. Around the house on occasion I measure volts in a receptacle of check low volts on a AA battery, but I have not checked a wet battery current drain.

My cheaper meter has a single mA setting, my better meter has an ”A” setting with selections for 2000u, 20m, 200m. So -10 to -30mA no big deal, but -100 to -200mA is an issue?
Thanks!

Update: After removing the radio face, and leaving the battery tender unhooked since last night (about 12 Hrs) battery voltage was 12v, and putting the ammeter on the battery posts (set to mA) it started at 200 and came down quickly to 100, then slowly kept descending to about 90 before I stopped watch it. I’ll go out tomorrow and check it again.

If I completely remove the battery cables from the battery, I’m wondering what the mA would be expected to read, zero?

 

[Huntn]

Don’t get a clamp meter as most don’t work on DC(a few do, buy the last time I looked they were big bucks).

To rule out a battery issue for the sake of completeness, you can pull one of the cables(I’d do positive, but either is fine for this) see if it still goes down in a few days. If it does, you know it’s a bad battery.

For that matter, it’s worth going back to the basics. Starting is the single most power intensive thing your battery does(that’s why the B+ goes straight to the starter) and a poor connection can look like a dead battery when steating. Make sure your battery connections are all tight, and also that the engine ground strap is in good shape. I’m not shy about putting a new battery ground strap on every decade or so(they’re about $15 and are a generic part) it if not that I’ve change my fair share of terminals on old cables.

Thanks for the clamp meter advice. Even though the battery is newer, this would be good to check.

 

[Huntn]

@Huntn

If it was me, I would take your car to a shop and have them do a battery load test to see if it’s a healthy battery or not as a starting point (They likely won’t even charge you for it, as it takes like two minutes.) I live in a cold state during this time of year, and a battery tender is almost necessary if the car sits, (which I know doesn’t apply to you). But I question how old your battery is in the car, as you never mentioned the age of when it was installed, ect.

Nice photo by the way.

Even though the battery is basically newish, I may do this.

 

[D.T.]

Thanks for explaining. I’ve got the big picture, was trying to clarify settings on the multi-meter and what I should look for. Around the house on occasion I measure volts in a receptacle of check low volts on a AA battery, but I have not checked a wet battery current drain.

My cheaper meter has a single mA setting, my better meter has an ”A” setting with selections for 2000u, 20m, 200m. So -10 to -30mA no big deal, but -100 to -200mA is an issue?
Thanks!

No sweat. I did a quick search, it looks like 50-85mA is even considered pretty typical (Optima batteries had a post saying ~85 isn't that uncommon). I'd say try it, see if it's super apparent, here's some info from an article:

Acceptable limits of leakage current - 20-80 mA. Typically, current consumption for OEM devices is as follows:

• car radio memory - 5-10 mA;
• alarm system - 20-25 mA;
• electronic control unit - 3-5 mA
  

... and another one:

Newer, auto ranging multimeters will automatically select the correct range of a signal they pick up. On manual ranging meters, you will need to select a range, usually either 2A or 200mA. If you get ‘OL’ on the screen, it means over limit and you should select a higher range.

If you see a reading of around 50mA and above on a standard car, it generally means something is drawing power and you likely have parasitic draw. Just note that if you have a big, modern, luxury car its added computerized systems will likely increase the natural current draw. In this instance, the threshold might be 100mA.

So again, I think it will present conspicuously if it's pretty severe.