The Car Thread ... !

[cyb3rdud3]

I know that’s a really divisive subject for some If Tesla falls in the ‘luxury segment‘ or not. I think Tesla is very much luxury, and here’s why after I was considering a white M3 Performance for months.

When I think of luxury, I don’t see it as because it necessarily just includes ‘leather‘ or incorporates certain technological features that Tesla has, I think it’s all about the design elements behind a vehicle. Specifically, the Model 3 is very industrialized inside the cabin, almost very futuristic in terms of what the average consumer isn’t used to seeing (Because it eliminates so many other options and exterior cues with vents/ducts), and that’s why maybe others can’t see this car as luxury, even though I think it’s evident from the exterior styling of the Model 3 leading into the Model Y/S with its stance, wheels, it’s just very sculpted, but very classy. Really, Tesla I personally believe did a great job with the Model 3

And to be perfectly honest, In my geographical area, Tesla is very much a luxury brand where It’s not a vehicle you see being driven/owned by the Lower blue class. [Partially because they are still somewhat pricey, especially if you opt the dual motor/performance.]

I’m not gonna lie, there’s a part of me that didn’t opt for the Model 3 because I’m hesitant if I will like it long term, where I know if I purchase one of my ‘fun cars‘ with a V-8, there’s nothing I wouldn’t like about that given that’s all I really know. But I’m becoming more adjusted to realizing that my next EV will be a Tesla or Ford. when I look at purchasing a vehicle, I want both luxury and performance, I really do think Tesla delivers in a different way, but takes some time to acclimate yourself to a polarizing experience.

Cost does not equal luxury I do not think that is ever a good measuring stick. Don't know in the US, but in many other parts of the world, the cars they produce are heavily subsidized, from a tax and ownership perspective, thus making them actually very affordable. A good example of that would be Ikea, it has all the hallmarks of what you describe above. It has the look, it has the futuristic way of approaching things, but doesn't have the feel, and no luxury there.

Especially the Model 3 is a mass-market appeal product; no denying the performance you get and cheap running costs. And for many no additional tax as a company car...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Before the current rebuild, my oil pan was a nice matte silver color. When I painted it that(the last time the engine was out) the idea was that I could easily see oil leaks on it. Unfortunately, I found way too much blow-by to actually get anything meaningful off of it. I'd have done maroon on the engine then as well had it not been for the fact that we didn't have any on hand, and were on a tight enough schedule to not go hunting.

Hopefully this rebuild is tight enough to not have blow-by, and otherwise will have all the other leaks ironed out. Aside from blow-by, I know I had a bad front crank seal(which actually led down the path to the rebuild).

One thing I really dislike about most modern cars is that when you pop the hood, almost everything of note has a big plastic cover on it. I like popping the hood and seeing my engine-all of my engine!

Absolutely! At least with an old engine I can touch and name most of the engine parts. On a modern car it’s just a big plastic lump.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Absolutely! At least with an old engine I can touch and name most of the engine parts. On a modern car it’s just a big plastic lump.

Yet underneath those plastic covers it is still an ICE engine (in most cases ?). The principles and components that make it up haven’t changed. It’s all there just like it has always been.

 

[44267547]

Cost does not equal luxury I do not think that is ever a good measuring stick. Don't know in the US, but in many other parts of the world, the cars they produce are heavily subsidized, from a tax and ownership perspective, thus making them actually very affordable. A good example of that would be Ikea, it has all the hallmarks of what you describe above. It has the look, it has the futuristic way of approaching things, but doesn't have the feel, and no luxury there.

Especially the Model 3 is a mass-market appeal product; no denying the performance you get and cheap running costs. And for many no additional tax as a company car...

Cost doesn’t equal luxury? I had to read your quote over twice, just try to understand your mindset here. But that’s a broad statement that I don’t find accurate. I do think cost is definitely associated with luxury, the consumer is paying for for certain amenities in the higher trim vehicles with heated/cooled/massaging seats, stitched leather dashes/door panels, heated steering wheel, tech packages, ect, those are all luxury items where cost does equal luxury in the automotive world.

Let me break this down:

So Lets say somebody buys a ‘base vehicle‘ that has no amenities from what I listed above, and that same person says “I really want leather, a sunroof, A Bose sound system” , etc. those are all luxury items that cost XYZ additional, and you’re saying ‘cost is not equal luxury‘? It most certainly does when you are discussing cars, I understand you gave the ‘Ikea’ example, but that’s not what we’re talking about In the same context. (Right?)

Yes, I do agree the Model 3 is a ‘mass market’ vehicle, of course, that changes very quickly if you opt for the performance package with the dual motor. But back to my post that you quoted, it’s not necessarily all about the amenities, when it’s about the design that usually promotes some type of luxury look/appeal, and I think that’s what Tesla shows off, is the industrialized look with a very sterile appeal. When you consider tech packages, convenience and comfort packages, it is all mutually exclusive. Cost is associated with luxury in almost every way possible in the auto-market.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Cost doesn’t equal luxury? I had to read your quote over twice, just try to understand your mindset here. But that’s a broad statement that I don’t find accurate. I do think cost is definitely associated with luxury, the consumer is paying for for certain amenities in the higher trim vehicles with heated/cooled/massaging seats, stitched leather dashes/door panels, heated steering wheel, tech packages, ect, those are all luxury items where cost does equal luxury in the automotive world.

Let me break this down:

So Lets say somebody buys a ‘base vehicle‘ that has no amenities from what I listed above, and that same person says “I really want leather, a sunroof, A Bose sound system” , etc. those are all luxury items that cost XYZ additional, and you’re saying ‘cost is not equal luxury‘? It most certainly does when you are discussing cars, I understand you gave the ‘Ikea’ example, but that’s not what we’re talking about In the same context. (Right?)

Yes, I do agree the Model 3 is a ‘mass market’ vehicle, of course, that changes very quickly if you opt for the performance package with the dual motor. But back to my post that you quoted, it’s not necessarily all about the amenities, when it’s about the design that usually promotes some type of luxury look/appeal, and I think that’s what Tesla shows off, is the industrialized look with a very sterile appeal. When you consider tech packages, convenience and comfort packages, it is all mutually exclusive. Cost is associated with luxury in almost every way possible in the auto-market.

I agree mostly. The only time that doesn’t apply is when you pay extra for a Porsche or Ferrari that’s been stripped of all the luxury for a track car.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Cost doesn’t equal luxury? I had to read your quote over twice, just try to understand your mindset here. But that’s a broad statement that I don’t find accurate. I do think cost is definitely associated with luxury, the consumer is paying for for certain amenities in the higher trim vehicles with heated/cooled/massaging seats, stitched leather dashes/door panels, heated steering wheel, tech packages, ect, those are all luxury items where cost does equal luxury in the automotive world.

Let me break this down:

So Lets say somebody buys a ‘base vehicle‘ that has no amenities from what I listed above, and that same person says “I really want leather, a sunroof, A Bose sound system” , etc. those are all luxury items that cost XYZ additional, and you’re saying ‘cost is not equal luxury‘? It most certainly does when you are discussing cars, I understand you gave the ‘Ikea’ example, but that’s not what we’re talking about In the same context. (Right?)

Yes, I do agree the Model 3 is a ‘mass market’ vehicle, of course, that changes very quickly if you opt for the performance package with the dual motor. But back to my post that you quoted, it’s not necessarily all about the amenities, when it’s about the design that usually promotes some type of luxury look/appeal, and I think that’s what Tesla shows off, is the industrialized look with a very sterile appeal. When you consider tech packages, convenience and comfort packages, it is all mutually exclusive. Cost is associated with luxury in almost every way possible in the auto-market.

Well Tesla is a good example of that. It has the cost but doesn’t have the quality and feel of the materials, fit and finish.

IKEA is the other example, it has all the attributes that you describe but doesn’t have the cost.

Sunglasses is another great example. There are all these “luxury” brands. Yet they all come from the same (Italian) company and lend their brands to their design.

There are many examples like that.

 

[D.T.]

Luxury == "industrialized look with a very sterile appeal.".

Huh? Not even sure what that means, but nobody would define luxury as simply the aesthetic. There's some outstanding interior executions on cars I'd never label as "luxury" vehicles.

No, a Model 3 is not a luxury vehicle. I don't say that as a negative (and in fact, as someone who keeps it on their shopping radar), it's a mid-range interior (at best) with nice tech implementation and some materials/construction that definitely has the feel of a lower market segment (i.e., not $50K).

In fact, the upcoming "refresh" is even doing a few things to improve the interior and make it feel more upmarket (and more aligned with the price).

 

[AustinIllini]

Luxury == "industrialized look with a very sterile appeal.".

Huh? Not even sure what that means, but nobody would define luxury as simply the aesthetic. There's some outstanding interior executions on cars I'd never label as "luxury" vehicles.

No, a Model 3 is not a luxury vehicle. I don't say that as a negative (and in fact, as someone who keeps it on their shopping radar), it's a mid-range interior (at best) with nice tech implementation and some materials/construction that definitely has the feel of a lower market segment (i.e., not $50K).

In fact, the upcoming "refresh" is even doing a few things to improve the interior and make it feel more upmarket (and more aligned with the price).

Definitely agree with the bold. Model 3 is a sporty drive machine, almost what the E generation BMW 3 series and earlier models used to be. The interior is handsome but minimalist. The vegan leather is actually nicer than the materials you get from base model BMW cars.

 

[bunnspecial]

Not necessarily cars, but thinking about some "luxury" products around me...

I have a Mont Blanc 146 in my pocket. It's not their flagship pen, as it's a step down in size from the 149 and has a 14K nib as opposed to 18K. I have it mostly because it's a great writing pen that's a perfect size and balance for my hands. At the same time, though, there are a lot of "premium" construction features in it compared with something like, say, a Lamy 2000, it's a classic design, and it has the brand recognition/appeal especially with top of the cap poking out of your pocket. The last is not something that you get overnight either.

I also have a Rolex Datejust on my wrist. I don't think you can deny the brand recognition is there as well as the widely imitated design, but also it's just a darn good watch. Material wise, it does have a decent amount of precious metal(18K gold) in the band. For a semi-dress watch, the case is(and always has been) unusually water resistant(most Rolex models carry the "Oyster" branding for that reason). The movement is Rolex's own design(something that, for a while, was a big deal even among Swiss watchmakers because a lot used the same ETA movements) with, among other things, their proprietary and efficient winding mechanism, the "jumping" date(they were one of the first to make that widely available-a lot "crawl" around midnight rather than clicking over instantly), and using a freesprung overcoil hairspring. The last allows them-in good condition-to have less positional variation a conventionally regulated hairspring and better isochronism thanks to the overcoil. Mine is, bar none, the best mechanical timekeeper I've ever owned(to a few seconds a month), and better than most inexpensive quartz watches.

In all that rambling, my point is that Tesla has a weird mis-match of inexpensive and premium materials, and most importantly inconsistent fit and finish. Until they can get the latter worked out especially, I don't think the "luxury" claim can be there.

There was a time when luxury cars had an automatic transmission, a radio, and air conditioning. Good luck finding a car without those anymore(manual transmission aside) even if they theoretically exist. 20 years ago, you'd find heated seats, leather, dual zone climate control, and maybe things like an info center on a luxury car-now you can get all of that on a Civic or Camry. You have to definitely up your quality now, in my mind, to get into luxury territory.

 

[D.T.]

Definitely agree with the bold. Model 3 is a sporty drive machine, almost what the E generation BMW 3 series and earlier models used to be. The interior is handsome but minimalist. The vegan leather is actually nicer than the materials you get from base model BMW cars.

Yeah, I was going to call it something like, "Mid-market, high tech, [high performance] sports sedan", or something, hahaha, that seemed a little verbose

I think you have an especially good take coming from an Audi S model.

 

[D.T.]

In all that rambling, my point is that Tesla has a weird mis-match of inexpensive and premium materials, and most importantly inconsistent fit and finish. Until they can get the latter worked out especially, I don't think the "luxury" claim can be there.

There was a time when luxury cars had an automatic transmission, a radio, and air conditioning. Good luck finding a car without those anymore(manual transmission aside) even if they theoretically exist. 20 years ago, you'd find heated seats, leather, dual zone climate control, and maybe things like an info center on a luxury car-now you can get all of that on a Civic or Camry. You have to definitely up your quality now, in my mind, to get into luxury territory.

Right, "content" isn't a good way to classify any longer, our DD/RT I wouldn't call luxury, but it's filled with stitched leather, soft touch surfaces, has heated/cooled seats/steering wheel, 3 zone climate control, nav/cameras/lane-control/suspension control/phone based remote start/lock/diagnostics/etc., just packed bells and whistles and what I'd consider "good design".

It will be interesting to see what Tesla does now that there are competitors flooding the market, cars like the VW ID.4 coming in from the lower/mid-market, and more to your point, companies like Lucid which are clearly providing what we would agree is a luxury product (hahaha, assuming they actually get them into the consumer channel).

 

[44267547]

My neighbor screams that Tesla is luxury across-the-board, but then again, he is hard-core Tesla and also has a model S. I think Austin and B.S made some good points a luxury can be defined in different ways through various products, but in terms of what defines Luxury from a standpoint in terms of automotive fashions, I do think design incorporates ‘sculpting and curvature‘ promotes luxury, Which that eliminates a lot of the uniform components were used to seeing in cars, and I think that’s kind of what I was getting at. I don’t want to rehash what I’ve already said, but I think Austin said it best, “It’s a minimalistic design, But handsome“. <—Totally agree with that point, succinct and spot on.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

My neighbor screams that Tesla is luxury across-the-board, but then again, he is hard-core Tesla and also has a model S. I think Austin and B.S made some good points a luxury can be defined in different ways through various products, but in terms of what defines Luxury from a standpoint in terms of automotive fashions, I do think design incorporates ‘sculpting and curvature‘ promotes luxury, Which that eliminates a lot of the uniform components were used to seeing in cars, and I think that’s kind of what I was getting at. I don’t want to rehash what I’ve already said, but I think Austin said it best, “It’s a minimalistic design, But handsome“.

I admire the technology that Tesla use in their vehicles as it’s clearly the future, but I wouldn’t say they are luxury apart from the higher price. They are quite bland looking IMO, nice, but on exterior styling or interior design I can think of dozens of nicer looking cars. I think they could do with designing a model for the European market personally much like Ford and other companies do. The Tesla has the Prius appeal right now because they are new and used by the rich and famous, but long term I hope they work on how they look.

 

[44267547]

I admire the technology that Tesla use in their vehicles as it’s clearly the future, but I wouldn’t say they are luxury apart from the higher price. They are quite bland looking IMO, nice, but on exterior styling or interior design I can think of dozens of nicer looking cars. I think they could do with designing a model for the European market personally much like Ford and other companies do. The Tesla has the Prius appeal right now because they are new and used by the rich and famous, but long term I hope they work on how they look.

Just a few points: (No TDLR)

1.) To me, it’s not even about the technology, I just like the instant power and lack-there-of maintenance from internal combustion engines and regular upkeep. After having so many performance cars over the years, I like the idea of having a car that doesn’t require oil changes, Premium 93 octane at $3.00 PG. I am getting more excited about the EV experience, not because just because of ‘Tesla‘, we have a lot of other manufacturers jumping on board To continue on refining the experience.


2.) I agree Teslas design isn’t for everybody, I remember when the Model 3 made its Way into my area for the first time approximately two years ago and I kind of smirked at it, and now when I see it, I really do like the way it looks (Especially in white). I’ve always been one that likes the ‘big bold‘ aggressive grills, hood vents, etc. But obviously Tesla doesn’t require additional cooling, which makes it look kinda awkward. But as much as we constantly beat down the design of Tesla, I think it works for what it is and it separates itself away from everything else that we typically see on the road.

Now, in terms of other designs from other EV manufacturers like Porsche, I really like the Taycan for many reasons, (Also, you mentioned you would prefer the European-like design:

Mustang ‘Mach-E’:

3.) Lastly, you mentioned that Tesla is used by the ‘rich and famous‘, which I do believe as I already said before, Teslas are usually driven by upper class in my area and that’s not to singe anyone out who can’t afford a Tesla,(because they are pricey in some segments and depending which option you choose), So aside from the economical standpoint of things, I suspect others would perhaps agree its both luxury and performance in tandem with all the technology on-board. But then again, I definitely don’t think ‘luxury’ is the first thing that comes into mind with the model 3, But mainly somebody that really wants the EV experience.

 

[mmomega]

Yep, my garage is .... not tidy.
Outside of that.
Having what some call luxury versus what others call luxury. Pricing almost identical, actually the Model X Performance was more than the GLS550.

The Mercedes has a different 'feel' to it.
It's just not the same measuring stick.
Tesla wins on some metrics, the Mercedes wins on some metrics.

Also have an almost 10 year old pickup truck in the driveway with factory air condition seats that 'literally' blows away the Mercs at almost a 3rd the price. And a remote starting feature that works perfectly. Mercedes doesn't offer remote start outside of the app which is completely terrible...AND... if the Mercedes app deems you fortunate enough to allow the car to be remotely started, it turns itself off the moment you open the door, so you sit, then restart the car again.

If anyone here has Mercedes Me you know it is not even a decent feature for that level of 'luxury'.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yep, my garage is .... not tidy.
Outside of that.
Having what some call luxury versus what others call luxury. Pricing almost identical, actually the Model X Performance was more than the GLS550.

The Mercedes has a different 'feel' to it.
It's just not the same measuring stick.
Tesla wins on some metrics, the Mercedes wins on some metrics.

Also have an almost 10 year old pickup truck in the driveway with factory air condition seats that 'literally' blows away the Mercs at almost a 3rd the price. And a remote starting feature that works perfectly. Mercedes doesn't offer remote start outside of the app which is completely terrible...AND... if the Mercedes app deems you fortunate enough to allow the car to be remotely started, it turns itself off the moment you open the door, so you sit, then restart the car again.

If anyone here has Mercedes Me you know it is not even a decent feature for that level of 'luxury'.


View attachment 965643

Mercedes app tech and incar tech leaves a lot to be desired from a tech lovers perspective. But saying that, our AMG GL class was one of the finest cars we ever had. The refinement, the quality, the fit and finish, and by normal controls it just worked.

But don’t get into the base models for that where you got fake leather as well. Well not unless you have children as it is supposed to be super hard wearing.

Yes a Tesla Model X 100P can have more straight line performance but to me that is where the only win is. Not even on the tech they wij in my opinion as what the Mercedes was lacking they’ve gone too far.

But I wouldn’t consider an app as luxury. Mercedes Me always worked fine for us. Both on the AMG GL and also on the AMG GLC. But my use case wasn’t much more than checking the tyre pressures, did I lock it? Or send satnav directions to the vehicle. I would have preferred Apple CarPlay anyday. Don’t need in-car bespoke tech.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Just a few points: (No TDLR)

1.) To me, it’s not even about the technology, I just like the instant power and lack-there-of maintenance from internal combustion engines and regular upkeep. After having so many performance cars over the years, I like the idea of having a car that doesn’t require oil changes, Premium 93 octane at $3.00 PG. I am getting more excited about the EV experience, not because just because of ‘Tesla‘, we have a lot of other manufacturers jumping on board To continue on refining the experience.


2.) I agree Teslas design isn’t for everybody, I remember when the Model 3 made its Way into my area for the first time approximately two years ago and I kind of smirked at it, and now when I see it, I really do like the way it looks (Especially in white). I’ve always been one that likes the ‘big bold‘ aggressive grills, hood vents, etc. But obviously Tesla doesn’t require additional cooling, which makes it look kinda awkward. But as much as we constantly beat down the design of Tesla, I think it works for what it is and it separates itself away from everything else that we typically see on the road.

Now, in terms of other designs from other EV manufacturers like Porsche, I really like the Taycan for many reasons, (Also, you mentioned you would prefer the European-like design:


View attachment 965639

Mustang ‘Mach-E’:

View attachment 965640

3.) Lastly, you mentioned that Tesla is used by the ‘rich and famous‘, which I do believe as I already said before, Teslas are usually driven by upper class in my area and that’s not to singe anyone out who can’t afford a Tesla,(because they are pricey in some segments and depending which option you choose), So aside from the economical standpoint of things, I suspect others would perhaps agree its both luxury and performance in tandem with all the technology on-board. But then again, I definitely don’t think ‘luxury’ is the first thing that comes into mind with the model 3, But mainly somebody that really wants the EV experience.

One thing I am not looking forward to with these electric cars is the loss of manual gearboxes. I wonder if my children will ever drive a manual or go through driving lessons learning how to properly drive a car like I did and everybody else. It’ll be quite sad if the future is just an accelerator and brake pedal I think. Kind of takes the fun out of things for me. The Tesla is around £50k new here at the moment so it’s way out of reach for most. Charge points are also an issue. It’s annoying you aren’t allowed to charge to 100% either in this country.

I know you like your performance muscle cars but the cars in the pics don’t really do much for me if I’m honest. Purely on aesthetic grounds but I’m sure they are great fun to drive.

 

[44267547]

@mmomega

Freakin-A, the Model X looks amazing in Midnight silver metallic. Nice choice! (Almost identical to my Cam-SS in cyber-gray metallic.)

 

[44267547]

One thing I am not looking forward to with these electric cars is the loss of manual gearboxes. I wonder if my children will ever drive a manual or go through driving lessons learning how to properly drive a car like I did and everybody else. It’ll be quite sad if the future is just an accelerator and brake pedal I think. Kind of takes the fun out of things for me. The Tesla is around £50k new here at the moment so it’s way out of reach for most. Charge points are also an issue. It’s annoying you aren’t allowed to charge to 100% either in this country.

I suspect internal combustion will be here for quite some time, but we are seeing the transition now where electric is becoming more primetime in marketing and the technology is evolving. Your children will probably have the opportunity when they’re enough to experience both EV and internal combustion, Who knows where the autonomous market will be at that point.

I personally will never get rid of two my naturally aspirated performance cars (Cobra and Camaro), just because they actually have more legitimate meaning to me then just for ‘looks’.

I know you like your performance muscle cars but the cars in the pics don’t really do much for me if I’m honest. Purely on aesthetic grounds but I’m sure they are great fun to drive.

Those sample pics above were mainly just to indicate the different styles of other EV vehicles other than Tesla. I Agree though, pictures really don’t mean much of anything until you actually see the car in person, which can be so much different from staged photos.

And Yup, I’ve had American muscle cars from every manufacturer since I’ve been 18 and that’s all I really know. It’s kind of funny, all of my muscle cars have ‘premium sound systems built-in’, and I never use them when I’m driving, because the V8 engine note when accelerating is intoxicating. Every weekend, I pull out a different car to drive, rather it be Dodge, Chevy or Ford, my neighbor tells me I have an addiction buying three cars in three months, I just nod without saying anything, smile and agree.😁

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I can appreciate the sound of an engine most definitely. But ahem, got to have some good tunes in there car.

Then again my daughter is an EDM DJ/Producer so it’s not like I got a choice ? A nice drive with some hardstyle EDM and a touch of hardcore is just right ?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

One thing I am not looking forward to with these electric cars is the loss of manual gearboxes. I wonder if my children will ever drive a manual or go through driving lessons learning how to properly drive a car like I did and everybody else. It’ll be quite sad if the future is just an accelerator and brake pedal I think. Kind of takes the fun out of things for me. The Tesla is around £50k new here at the moment so it’s way out of reach for most. Charge points are also an issue. It’s annoying you aren’t allowed to charge to 100% either in this country.

I know you like your performance muscle cars but the cars in the pics don’t really do much for me if I’m honest. Purely on aesthetic grounds but I’m sure they are great fun to drive.

That is not telling the whole story though. There are significant tax benefits and deductions to be had on those cars. Sure when one is a traditional cash buyer it make very little sense, but when one gets over that it is a much lower cost of ownership than a £50K car would suggest.

So it’s a big of a distorted picture. I wonder if they didn’t get subsidised like that based on green credentials whether they would still be so popular. I mean by no measure is it truly a £50K car. And the same for the Model S. It makes the competition look like fantastic value for money.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yep, my garage is .... not tidy.
Outside of that.
Having what some call luxury versus what others call luxury. Pricing almost identical, actually the Model X Performance was more than the GLS550.

The Mercedes has a different 'feel' to it.
It's just not the same measuring stick.
Tesla wins on some metrics, the Mercedes wins on some metrics.

Also have an almost 10 year old pickup truck in the driveway with factory air condition seats that 'literally' blows away the Mercs at almost a 3rd the price. And a remote starting feature that works perfectly. Mercedes doesn't offer remote start outside of the app which is completely terrible...AND... if the Mercedes app deems you fortunate enough to allow the car to be remotely started, it turns itself off the moment you open the door, so you sit, then restart the car again.

If anyone here has Mercedes Me you know it is not even a decent feature for that level of 'luxury'.


View attachment 965643

Untidy garage? Doesn’t look that bad. But I have to pull you up on the treatment of that Mac on your shelf!

 

[D.T.]

They are quite bland looking IMO, nice, but on exterior styling or interior design I can think of dozens of nicer looking cars.

I think one thing that throws off, I guess I'd call us, "ol' school" car enthusiasts, are the missing design elements that just aren't needed on an EV. You know, grills, cooling intakes, the tech makes those unnecessary, and they typically, negatively impact the Cd.

Companies like VW are doing a great job adding some more traditional/ICE design cues, I think it makes a pretty big difference:

That's almost doesn't look like an EV.

Funny enough, years ago, when the EV thing was becoming _a_thing_, there was a study done, that showed buyers greatly preferred the car (mostly HEVs) looking way different than an ICE, there were some great cars that didn't sell as well, because they weren't visually any different, other than a badge. People wanted other people to know, they're driving xEV

This probably has non-trivial aero impact, but it's amazing, the extra character this brings to the front end, this is a Model 3 ...

There's also been some extremely nice design studies for a next generation Model S circulating, this one wasn't confirmed as anything official (I mean, in terms of even official design rambling ...).

Yep, my garage is .... not tidy.

If you can get two cars in a two car garage, it's clean

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think you are spot on. Those look nice

 

[quagmire]

Doug Demuro reviews an engineless Ford Bronco.