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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,749
UK
I've driven a 930 slant nose, quite a few Lotus ((Lotii ? :D), and a buddy of mine had an F355, then later an F360 Challenge car, this is us at Roebling (with his F355, I thought for sure I had a pic of the 360 ...), my Supra (wife's Z3, not tracked)


View attachment 964236


Of course, my little Toyota in the fastest car in the photo :D

Another one from that event (wow, that was a while ago now ...)



View attachment 964237
Always have a sweet spot for the Supra.

My daughter helps out at a VMAX200 shop where their Supra holds many records. I like them.
 
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faust

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2007
382
173
Los Angeles, CA
I’m not sure where you get elitism from. Only you seem to bring that up. Heck a Daihatsu can also be great off-road. Doesn’t make it desirable though. But also doesn’t mean if one thinks it is not that one is being elitist.

You come across to me like you’d rather had a wrangler and are justifying the renegade to yourself ;)

If you love it you love it, doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks ?

Yeah, I love it. The Renegade is a fantastic car. I prefer it to my old Subaru Crosstrek. I got my Renegade Sport for $18,000 USD after haggling the salesman down. It was pretty successful because they had somehow put 500 miles on it using it for test drives. Had the salesman and sales manager done their job? I could've walked away with a Wrangler. I think I should've waited for the Ford Bronco at least, but that's the only regret I have.

I was hitting some pretty awesome trails in my Renegade, and it's performance surprised me. It doesn't have the engine oil burning problem that's been linked to the 2.4L TigerShark engine. And for the record, the elitism is coming from Wrangler owners I've met. Not anyone on here. I'm just pretty annoyed by it. I love my Renegade.
 
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Nütztjanix

macrumors 68000
Jul 31, 2019
1,535
985
Germany
How long do you have? :)

OK, short version:

Torque is rotational force, for cars in the US, shown as lb/ft, i.e., amount of turning force applied to move one pound a distance of one foot around an axis at a radius of one foot.

Horsepower is work over time, so when we calculate it, we factor in RPM, i.e., revolutions per minute == work / time, and in specifically it's this equation:

H = T x RPM / 5252

So on a dyno graph, where you see a plot of both HP and Torque, they'll always cross at 5252 RPM ...

Anyway, so what you're seeing is HP is produced as the engine spins, so those low HP, high TQ vehicles typically have lots of TQ low in the RPM range (usually due to some combination of displacement/design/FI), but don't have a ton of rev capability, so their HP is lower-ish (relative to the TQ).

So you have engines, like big diesels that make 550lb/ft of torque but only 240HP, and F1 engines that make 200lb/ft of torque but ~800HP (because the latter rev to 15,000+ RPMs).

And of course, don't forget gearing, that's a HUGE contributor to the final, effective performance, in fact, as a smart engineer once said, I'd rather have torque higher than lower in the RPM range to take advantage of gearing. Keeping the RPMs high between shifts, near the peak means faster acceleration over time.

This is a dyno chart, from, umm, some random, tuned MY18+ GT A10 :D

View attachment 961437

The lighter red line is torque, note how it's 350-400 across the RPM range (the scale at the bottom), and as the RPMs increase, the darker red (HP / Power) value increases to the point where the engine start losing efficiency, torque starts to drop off.

This one was actually cut a little short, it made power right up to about 7200 putting the A10 at a perfect shift point. Engines can only spin so fast, and can only ingest so much air, there's all sorts of design considerations to the implementation - and of course, that also has to be factored in with cost, durability, etc., when talking about street vehicles.

FYI, these are measured rear wheel numbers, manufacturers rate the engines at the flywheel, which doesn't take into account the power losses through the transmissions/drivetrain, gears, etc. So using the typical calculation for those losses on a super efficient tranny like the Ford A10, that's ~520HP at the motor :cool:
Short version:

Power is how fast you hit the wall - torque is how far you take the wall with you 🙂
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
Always have a sweet spot for the Supra.

My daughter helps out at a VMAX200 shop where their Supra holds many records. I like them.

Yeah, that was a fun car, the project had its ups and downs, but that level up modifications requires some time and patience. The color, GGP, was actually a Lexus color (I had a Lexus at the time and saw the color at the dealer, and the Supra was already being painted, hahaha, had to do a change order - the rollbar in the photo below was the original exterior color choice, they painted that first outside the car, but we left it for some color contrast. The paint was complete, talking full glass and interior removal, engine bay, etc., there was no signs of the previous color. Top Secret parts (some in beautiful carbon fiber) imported from Japan.

Everything aluminum was polished, had all sorts of suspension, TEIN, TRD, huge AP brakes, custom roll bar, Recaros, with race gas (I kept ~100 gallons of VP C108 in storage), and at ~32psi it would put down around 770-800HP to the motor (~675 to the wheels). It was a 6-speed (all stock except for the clutch, had several, multi-disk type setups).


LOVE LOVE LOVE the Supra! Great action shot too.

Yeah, it was quite a show and magazine car, but it was extremely capable on a road course, had lots of [aftermarket] supplemental cooling, the brakes were fantastic, and the seat/bar/harnesses were terrific.


A few more photogs ...



640_DSC00042.jpg



640_DSC00045.jpg



640_DSC00044.jpg



Beach_0003.jpg




Beach_0002.jpg
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Original poster
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
PPF done. Ceramic coat done. Photo time.

Nice. Any short term updates?


There's some neat changes coming to TM3s very soon, doublepane/insulated windows, the Octovalve thermal system, a [factory] option for chrome delete, a few interior changes. They say the thermal/heatpump/Octovalve setup in the Y was good for about a 5% improvement in range, plus apparently there's some new revision to the 2170 batteries that might be good for as much as a 10% increase. That could mean a 340-ish mile range on the Performance model.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
Love the white marshmallow seats and red combo. I’ve sat in those seats before and they are crazy comfortable, you literally sink into them. I’ve read they clean really easy as well.

I’m a huge proponent into Ceramic ceramic coating paint. GTechniq Is what I prefer for my cars, (I even have the wheels ceramic coated if applicable.) It makes a huge difference against water spots and dirt doesn’t stick as easy. Totally worth the investment for about $2500. That’s with a warranty and minimum of five years of protection.

Enjoy!
 
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AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
Nice. Any short term updates?


There's some neat changes coming to TM3s very soon, doublepane/insulated windows, the Octovalve thermal system, a [factory] option for chrome delete, a few interior changes. They say the thermal/heatpump/Octovalve setup in the Y was good for about a 5% improvement in range, plus apparently there's some new revision to the 2170 batteries that might be good for as much as a 10% increase. That could mean a 340-ish mile range on the Performance model.
Not a ton to report. One piece of trim was out of line. Had the Tesla mobile service guy fix it.

After the ceramic coating the cameras are acting up a bit. Everything works for the most part but sometimes I get an Autosteer warning. Going to let the ceramic cure and then see what happens.

Heat pump would be a great addition for sure. In general, the expectation is that the M3 would see an improvement in cold weather range. Luckily for me, I live in Texas so I really don't have many concerns about range loss in the cold.

The new center console is better functionally. The windows would definitely help with wind noise but that's not a huge deal for me.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
I got a text on Thursday from my mechanic asking me what color I wanted my engine painted-hopefully that's a good sign and I'll be buzzing around again soon in my fun little roadster with a new lease on life.

I'm going to be interested in seeing what the front springs look like after 5 months without close to 500lbs of cast iron and other assorted metals sitting on top of them.

BTW, anyone want to take a stab at what color I told him on the engine? :)
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,749
UK
PPF done. Ceramic coat done. Photo time.

007ed41a_8d66_4966_9146_66e1980d4547_2eddd7950cdda29420b12641abd42c4a9fb258f5.jpeg


cf67f460_6c1a_4303_96b3_6b8352a8d317_47ba2dee0aeb12ce2cf2e25ff1f06cd18d4f7215.jpeg

0a3fe89c_d2e0_491b_a29c_bdf0fbdbd76d_ca510a0cce1052ecec02e2d833b9ecedff36bb64.jpeg


17991fa1_ce1f_45e3_9060_c41b75007f3c_17b3db1f497836a1ad9b9109dd3db9cc64af990f.jpeg
Looks like a good job done on the cleaning.

It just shows how we are all very different and like different things. Personally I don't think the car looks 'together'; I mean ugly (to me) black'ish closed up wheels, with red metallic paint and then having chrome bit on the outside. It seems confused about whether it wants to be dechromed or not. I think it would so much better tied in with either have the chrome also black or have silver wheels.

And then that interior; what's with the black and white theme. To me, its comes across like they just plonked some white seats in what was supposed to be a black car. There is nothing in the interior to tie the white seats back to something.

When I see something like that, then it is reinforced to me that Tesla have still got a long way to go to properly play in the luxury car segment (which their prices seem to suggest they do...). Materials used, colour combinations, build quality. Just doesn't seem to fit the price tag to me.
[automerge]1602407201[/automerge]
I got a text on Thursday from my mechanic asking me what color I wanted my engine painted-hopefully that's a good sign and I'll be buzzing around again soon in my fun little roadster with a new lease on life.

I'm going to be interested in seeing what the front springs look like after 5 months without close to 500lbs of cast iron and other assorted metals sitting on top of them.

BTW, anyone want to take a stab at what color I told him on the engine? :)
Black? :)
 

ericwn

macrumors G5
Apr 24, 2016
12,114
10,906
Folks do all sorts of stuff that makes no sense. Why even get an SUV if you don't go off-roading?

The much better visibility out of the vehicle comes to mind. That’s at least what I enjoyed when we had one. Plus the AWD on bad winter roads.
 

AustinIllini

macrumors G5
Oct 20, 2011
12,699
10,567
Austin, TX
Looks like a good job done on the cleaning.

It just shows how we are all very different and like different things. Personally I don't think the car looks 'together'; I mean ugly (to me) black'ish closed up wheels, with red metallic paint and then having chrome bit on the outside. It seems confused about whether it wants to be dechromed or not. I think it would so much better tied in with either have the chrome also black or have silver wheels.
Yeah, it's kind of weird because the Tesla 18" wheels are beautiful but I leave the aero caps on for efficiency. As far as the chrome delete, it sounds like the Model 3 will be getting the Model Y treatment soon (Model Y comes with Chrome delete from the factory).

And then that interior; what's with the black and white theme. To me, its comes across like they just plonked some white seats in what was supposed to be a black car. There is nothing in the interior to tie the white seats back to something.

When I see something like that, then it is reinforced to me that Tesla have still got a long way to go to properly play in the luxury car segment (which their prices seem to suggest they do...). Materials used, colour combinations, build quality. Just doesn't seem to fit the price tag to me.
[automerge]1602407201[/automerge]

Black? :)

I don't get the white comment. The car has white trim all over it. The doors have huge white sections, the dashboard has white where the black has wood. The white is simply the interior to get, IMHO.
 

Nütztjanix

macrumors 68000
Jul 31, 2019
1,535
985
Germany
Is the headliner white or gray? Looks like gray - should have either been black or match the interior (e.g. creme with creme leather). Just my opinion though.
 

Matz

macrumors 65816
Apr 25, 2015
1,161
1,690
Rural Southern Virginia
Yeah, that was a fun car, the project had its ups and downs, but that level up modifications requires some time and patience. The color, GGP, was actually a Lexus color (I had a Lexus at the time and saw the color at the dealer, and the Supra was already being painted, hahaha, had to do a change order - the rollbar in the photo below was the original exterior color choice, they painted that first outside the car, but we left it for some color contrast. The paint was complete, talking full glass and interior removal, engine bay, etc., there was no signs of the previous color. Top Secret parts (some in beautiful carbon fiber) imported from Japan.

Everything aluminum was polished, had all sorts of suspension, TEIN, TRD, huge AP brakes, custom roll bar, Recaros, with race gas (I kept ~100 gallons of VP C108 in storage), and at ~32psi it would put down around 770-800HP to the motor (~675 to the wheels). It was a 6-speed (all stock except for the clutch, had several, multi-disk type setups).




Yeah, it was quite a show and magazine car, but it was extremely capable on a road course, had lots of [aftermarket] supplemental cooling, the brakes were fantastic, and the seat/bar/harnesses were terrific.


A few more photogs ...



View attachment 964542


View attachment 964544


View attachment 964546


View attachment 964550



View attachment 964551
That is seriously cool.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,987
56,001
Behind the Lens, UK
I got a text on Thursday from my mechanic asking me what color I wanted my engine painted-hopefully that's a good sign and I'll be buzzing around again soon in my fun little roadster with a new lease on life.

I'm going to be interested in seeing what the front springs look like after 5 months without close to 500lbs of cast iron and other assorted metals sitting on top of them.

BTW, anyone want to take a stab at what color I told him on the engine? :)
Black.
 

bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
I thought black would be better. Then when the head gasket goes the oil will blend in nicely! ;)

Oh come on, a blown MGB headgasket doesn't(usually) leak oil-it just squirts coolant out! :) . There's only a single oil passage through the head gasket and into the head(it's comes up the back and feeds oil down the rocker shaft), so there aren't very many opportunities for it to get out.

To be fair, though, the old copper head gaskets would leak coolant but would not actually be bad. Usually a retorque fixes them for a while. If a new composition HG leaks...anything...you'd best be pulling it off.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,352
6,495
Kentucky
Before the current rebuild, my oil pan was a nice matte silver color. When I painted it that(the last time the engine was out) the idea was that I could easily see oil leaks on it. Unfortunately, I found way too much blow-by to actually get anything meaningful off of it. I'd have done maroon on the engine then as well had it not been for the fact that we didn't have any on hand, and were on a tight enough schedule to not go hunting.

Hopefully this rebuild is tight enough to not have blow-by, and otherwise will have all the other leaks ironed out. Aside from blow-by, I know I had a bad front crank seal(which actually led down the path to the rebuild).

One thing I really dislike about most modern cars is that when you pop the hood, almost everything of note has a big plastic cover on it. I like popping the hood and seeing my engine-all of my engine!
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
I know that’s a really divisive subject for some If Tesla falls in the ‘luxury segment‘ or not. I think Tesla is very much luxury, and here’s why after I was considering a white M3 Performance for months.

When I think of luxury, I don’t see it as because it necessarily just includes ‘leather‘ or incorporates certain technological features that Tesla has, I think it’s all about the design elements behind a vehicle. Specifically, the Model 3 is very industrialized inside the cabin, almost very futuristic in terms of what the average consumer isn’t used to seeing (Because it eliminates so many other options and exterior cues with vents/ducts), and that’s why maybe others can’t see this car as luxury, even though I think it’s evident from the exterior styling of the Model 3 leading into the Model Y/S with its stance, wheels, it’s just very sculpted, but very classy. Really, Tesla I personally believe did a great job with the Model 3

And to be perfectly honest, In my geographical area, Tesla is very much a luxury brand where It’s not a vehicle you see being driven/owned by the Lower blue class. [Partially because they are still somewhat pricey, especially if you opt the dual motor/performance.]

I’m not gonna lie, there’s a part of me that didn’t opt for the Model 3 because I’m hesitant if I will like it long term, where I know if I purchase one of my ‘fun cars‘ with a V-8, there’s nothing I wouldn’t like about that given that’s all I really know. But I’m becoming more adjusted to realizing that my next EV will be a Tesla or Ford. when I look at purchasing a vehicle, I want both luxury and performance, I really do think Tesla delivers in a different way, but takes some time to acclimate yourself to a polarizing experience.
 
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