The Car Thread ... !

[JT2002TJ]

Riiiight, so people shouldn't buy a German car because of something that happened almost a century ago and which those responsible are all dead. By that token I guess nobody should buy Japanese products due to Pearl Harbor. Oh or American either, with slavery and all. Hopefully you can see how absolutely asinine and unserious that argument is...

I'm not saying not to. But it's just about as asinine as not buying a product because of a CEO, who hasn't actually done anything but run his mouth. I agree he is an ass...

As I have said, I have owned many German cars, and as a Black American, I have owned many American cars.

 

[vipergts2207]

I'm not saying not to. But it's just about as asinine as not buying a product because of a CEO, who hasn't actually done anything but run his mouth. I agree he is an ass...

As I have said, I have owned many German cars, and as a Black American, I have owned many American cars.

It's very different actually. Buying a Tesla puts money right in Musk's pocket. Conversely, buying a Porsche does not put money into the non-existent coffers of the Third Reich. Surely this is not a difficult thing to grasp.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I don’t dislike Tesla because of Musk, I’m just not overly drawn to the aesthetics of the cars, I think they are quite bland looking, but maybe that is the style as they are minimal? Considering they are £38k+, I just think you can get a lot more premium feeling cars for the money. When I compare the ride and feel with EV’s I’ve driven from BMW, Audi and Polestar, I think they all beat Tesla on feel. I do think Tesla are leading the way in regard to software innovations and much of the industry are trying to compete on that, I just wouldn’t buy one myself.

Tesla have reduced their prices in the UK now though and are competing more against Kia, Toyota, etc, rather than the higher end which they initially seemed to be attracting. Now there are so many more EV options, I think the big German brands and Volvo/Polestar are more involved in the luxury segments.

 

[I7guy]

I don’t dislike Tesla because of Musk, I’m just not overly drawn to the aesthetics of the cars, I think they are quite bland looking, but maybe that is the style as they are minimal? Considering they are £38k+, I just think you can get a lot more premium feeling cars for the money. When I compare the ride and feel with EV’s I’ve driven from BMW, Audi and Polestar, I think they all beat Tesla on feel. I do think Tesla are leading the way in regard to software innovations and much of the industry are trying to compete on that, I just wouldn’t buy one myself.

Tesla have reduced their prices in the UK now though and are competing more against Kia, Toyota, etc, rather than the higher end which they initially seemed to be attracting. Now there are so many more EV options, I think the big German brands and Volvo/Polestar are more involved in the luxury segments.

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/2023-audi-e-tron-vs-2022-tesla-model-y-comparison

Just did a quick search. Taking Audi for example, I don't think their BEV offerings beat Telsa at anything except for luxury materials. Now if your top priority in a BEV is luxury materials, Audi is a fine automaker for that. But anything else, including fun to drive factor -- I believe Tesla wins. (Maybe the Audi has a softer suspension than the Model Y...I don't know)

(And fwiw, as you alluded to, I buy the product and the company and not the CEO. This applies to a Model y as well as an iphone 15)

 

[YoitsTmac]

I can stand behind this.

I got my TMY LR with AB because I wanted the best of both worlds. With a 2 year old and a bad neck/back from 2 rear end collisions within the last year, I need the ease of an SUV to get my son in and out of the car seat. I also wanted a fun sports car. I would have to spend $150k+ on an ICE suv that can keep up with a TMY. A TMY can keep up with almost every sports car I regularly pass on the road (I do live in Long Island NY, so I do see exotics regularly), and I can fit all the groceries I need to pick up. Oh, and I save about $300 per month on gas, and don't have to be out in the elements while fueling up 1x-2x a week. I just plug my wall charger in, and in
Tesla's aren't track cars, they family cars that have some track abilities that make them hard to beat, but the TM3 performance, and TMS/X (Plaid or not) can give any car a run for their money, from 1/2 their cost all the way to 3x the cost. They also can repeat their 1/4 mile times without having to make sure the launches are perfect (conditions and vehicle).

Most people in this world cannot afford to have a dedicated track car + a family car. Tesla's can do both at a high enough level to be in the same conversation as limited release sports cars, are there any other cars you can order today and pick up in >2 months that fit this? Oh, and also not pay a dealer surcharge in the amount of $10-$20k+? A TMS plaid will cost you $91k a TM3 Performance around $60k, anyone can order it, and get one today (if you are ok with existing inventory configurations). The vehicles in the same conversation are VERY hard to get, some require prior ownership to even get on a waiting list.

I think we’re batting in the same ballpark. No doubt that Tesla’s can hold their own. I think you described the perfect use case for someone shopping a TMY. If you gave me 91k and told me buy a fun SUV, I would have just spent it differently. Granted I’m 26 and single and will never have kids, but I think the BMW X3 M40i is as cool as it gets for an SUV (X3 M too rough to daily, engine note is meh): handsome looks, comfy enough day to day, good tech. And the legendary B58 that somehow gives awesome performance, sound and efficiency for ICE. The interior feels designed by a human and has a personality. You’ll have gas costs but it’s hard to imagine anyone budgeting a 91k car would be worried about a $1,200/yr running cost.

That’s my big problem with Tesla: I think the interior design has the personality of a sheet of paper with a line on it. But I also know to some that’s almost the selling feature. I also feel it’s ignorant to do all the “autonomy” without lidar for so many reasons, but I digress. I know my view isn’t the most popular given sales.

As for tracking…I do tons of track days and auto x. I see probably 3 Tesla’s a year. Like you said, a Tesla is not a track car. I’m happy the straight line bits give people enough thrills that feed the itch day to day. For what it’s worth a dedicated track car doesn’t have to be expensive. You can even just take an old car, refresh some weak bits, strip the interior, tires and brakes and have the perfect machine to start perfecting your craft. I could build that for $12k. My 235hp car with a full interior gets point-by’s (passing permission) by brand new M4’s because they’re only extracting 50-60% while I’m getting 90-95%. It’s easy to get lost in the stats but it’s an art to extract that performance without crashing, let alone consistently. My first track day I saw a brand new M4 GTS blow turn 2 at Laguna Seca, and later that day a GT86 crash into the wall before the corkscrew. I only mention this to emphasize there’s tons of fun and tons to learn to be had with a cheap beater track car in case that’s something that truly excites you.

Sorry about your accident. I got rear ended too and three years later with a lot of exercise on my own, I finally feel 90% “normal.”

 

[YoitsTmac]

I don’t dislike Tesla because of Musk, I’m just not overly drawn to the aesthetics of the cars, I think they are quite bland looking, but maybe that is the style as they are minimal? Considering they are £38k+, I just think you can get a lot more premium feeling cars for the money. When I compare the ride and feel with EV’s I’ve driven from BMW, Audi and Polestar, I think they all beat Tesla on feel. I do think Tesla are leading the way in regard to software innovations and much of the industry are trying to compete on that, I just wouldn’t buy one myself.

Tesla have reduced their prices in the UK now though and are competing more against Kia, Toyota, etc, rather than the higher end which they initially seemed to be attracting. Now there are so many more EV options, I think the big German brands and Volvo/Polestar are more involved in the luxury segments.

This is pretty spot on. I think driving a Tesla and then a BMW/Audi EV back to back really emphasizes how much Tesla has to learn about creating a luxury product. I applaud them for creating and manufacturing a mainstream car at a friendly entry price point. Additionally, their drivetrains are phenomenal. However, I think they focused so hard on minimalism (and also minimizing parks and SKU’s) that, as you said, the entire car is bland and lacks personality. A Tesla feels like a car built to do the car. You need a steering wheel, so here’s a steering wheel. You need functions, so here’s a screen and our software guy will make it do the things you want it to. It feels designed to fulfill a checklist. Meanwhile Audi and BMW and other established brands try to hit the checklist but also create elements.

The Audi E-Tron models look stunning. Every time I see one I get ever so slightly excited. Like I get happy for the buyer. The BMW interiors are understated and classy. It’s so hard to describe this difference but the Tesla just feels so stale. There’s just nothing exciting about the interior or the driving experience. As for the acceleration party trick, most buyer don’t even care.

 

[YoitsTmac]

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/2023-audi-e-tron-vs-2022-tesla-model-y-comparison

Just did a quick search. Taking Audi for example, I don't think their BEV offerings beat Telsa at anything except for luxury materials. Now if your top priority in a BEV is luxury materials, Audi is a fine automaker for that. But anything else, including fun to drive factor -- I believe Tesla wins. (Maybe the Audi has a softer suspension than the Model Y...I don't know)

(And fwiw, as you alluded to, I buy the product and the company and not the CEO. This applies to a Model y as well as an iphone 15)

For many buyers, they want “a reasonable” range and luxury. They don’t even care about fun. They want comfort and quiet, materials and to an extend, style.

We’re all entitled to our opinions but man, there’s so many more cars that are fun than a Tesla

You say Tesla wins at “anything else.” Can you describe what you’re referring to? I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. I went to the Tesla model 3 subreddit and even they were split on a thread about TM3 performance vs BMW M3

 

[JT2002TJ]

This is pretty spot on. I think driving a Tesla and then a BMW/Audi EV back to back really emphasizes how much Tesla has to learn about creating a luxury product. I applaud them for creating and manufacturing a mainstream car at a friendly entry price point. Additionally, their drivetrains are phenomenal. However, I think they focused so hard on minimalism (and also minimizing parks and SKU’s) that, as you said, the entire car is bland and lacks personality. A Tesla feels like a car built to do the car. You need a steering wheel, so here’s a steering wheel. You need functions, so here’s a screen and our software guy will make it do the things you want it to. It feels designed to fulfill a checklist. Meanwhile Audi and BMW and other established brands try to hit the checklist but also create elements.

The Audi E-Tron models look stunning. Every time I see one I get ever so slightly excited. Like I get happy for the buyer. The BMW interiors are understated and classy. It’s so hard to describe this difference but the Tesla just feels so stale. There’s just nothing exciting about the interior or the driving experience. As for the acceleration party trick, most buyer don’t even care.

In the end, if a vehicle does it all for you, do all the fancy the buttons really do anything? I don't need LED strips, massaging seats, LEDs integrated into headliner, if my car can't navigate the highway properly in adaptive cruise control. I think the majors are putting lipstick on a pig, when they haven't mastered the basics yet. When they get the basics down, I'm all for the luxury, but until then, I look at it like they are missing all the bits that make an EV ahead of ICE's...

They are making EV's that are as good as ICE's, but missing the benefits of being EV's.

This is my belief, as someone who has bought and own 2 EV's this calendar year.

 

[JT2002TJ]

For many buyers, they want “a reasonable” range and luxury. They don’t even care about fun. They want comfort and quiet, materials and to an extend, style.

We’re all entitled to our opinions but man, there’s so many more cars that are fun than a Tesla

You say Tesla wins at “anything else.” Can you describe what you’re referring to? I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. I went to the Tesla model 3 subreddit and even they were split on a thread about TM3 performance vs BMW M3

I think I gave a good list in the EV thread:

Phone key
Scheduled departures by GPS location
phone key based seating, mirror, and UI settings
Cloud based settings (have 2 Teslas, or getting a loaner, settings carry over)
Tesla Maps
Tesla Center Screen
Full Self Driving (I do 90% of my driving in the NYC metroplex using FSD)
Supercharger payment (plug and go)
Mobile phone integration/notifications
Sentry Mode
Efficiency (3/Y, I have both)
Sales experience
Service experience (all through the app)

 

[I7guy]

For many buyers, they want “a reasonable” range and luxury. They don’t even care about fun. They want comfort and quiet, materials and to an extend, style.

We’re all entitled to our opinions but man, there’s so many more cars that are fun than a Tesla

You say Tesla wins at “anything else.” Can you describe what you’re referring to? I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. I went to the Tesla model 3 subreddit and even they were split on a thread about TM3 performance vs BMW M3

The article I linked was discussing EVs and hence my question which EVs are more fun to drive than a Model 3/Y in that approximate price range. All the while noting the aesthetics of the m3 and my might not be for everybody, but Tesla has an excellent buying experience, great software, safe cars etc.

 

[YoitsTmac]

In the end, if a vehicle does it all for you, do all the fancy the buttons really do anything? I don't need LED strips, massaging seats, LEDs integrated into headliner, if my car can't navigate the highway properly in adaptive cruise control. I think the majors are putting lipstick on a pig, when they haven't mastered the basics yet. When they get the basics down, I'm all for the luxury, but until then, I look at it like they are missing all the bits that make an EV ahead of ICE's...

They are making EV's that are as good as ICE's, but missing the benefits of being EV's.

This is my belief, as someone who has bought and own 2 EV's this calendar year.

In my opinion, yes. I personally love ambient lighting. Your cluster and headunit are already glowing. Instead of feeling like a flashlight is in my eyes, ambient lighting helps make those areas feel less blinding. Not sure what you’re referring to with adaptive cruise control. Tesla seems to be the only one struggling with that (phantom braking even without FSD likely due to lack of radar). That’s one thing I went to see if Tesla even had and I was surprised that they don’t. And I personally love buttons because then I don’t have to look away from the road. I don’t have the study on-hand but a study showed that lack of buttons made people more reckless than drunk driving. I’ll grab the link if anyone cares

 

[YoitsTmac]

The article I linked was discussing EVs and hence my question which EVs are more fun to drive than a Model 3/Y in that approximate price range. All the while noting the aesthetics of the m3 and my might not be for everybody, but Tesla has an excellent buying experience, great software, safe cars etc.

All in agreement. Fair enough

 

[cyb3rdud3]

In my opinion, yes. I personally love ambient lighting. Your cluster and headunit are already glowing. Instead of feeling like a flashlight is in my eyes, ambient lighting helps make those areas feel less blinding. Not sure what you’re referring to with adaptive cruise control. Tesla seems to be the only one struggling with that (phantom braking even without FSD likely due to lack of radar). That’s one thing I went to see if Tesla even had and I was surprised that they don’t. And I personally love buttons because then I don’t have to look away from the road. I don’t have the study on-hand but a study showed that lack of buttons made people more reckless than drunk driving. I’ll grab the link if anyone cares

Agreed, they are cars for people who want an app, not for those who want to drive.

 

[YoitsTmac]

I think I gave a good list in the EV thread:

Phone key
Scheduled departures by GPS location
phone key based seating, mirror, and UI settings
Cloud based settings (have 2 Teslas, or getting a loaner, settings carry over)
Tesla Maps
Tesla Center Screen
Full Self Driving (I do 90% of my driving in the NYC metroplex using FSD)
Supercharger payment (plug and go)
Mobile phone integration/notifications
Sentry Mode
Efficiency (3/Y, I have both)
Sales experience
Service experience (all through the app)

Ah sorry, I haven’t been in the EV thread. I think a lot of the big guys have caught up to a lot of these (phone key, supercharger network expanding to others in 2025, center screen tech, almost efficiency, sales and service), but there’s a good number of those I agree Tesla has a huge leap on. Fair reasons, thanks for sharing

 

[JT2002TJ]

In my opinion, yes. I personally love ambient lighting. Your cluster and headunit are already glowing. Instead of feeling like a flashlight is in my eyes, ambient lighting helps make those areas feel less blinding. Not sure what you’re referring to with adaptive cruise control. Tesla seems to be the only one struggling with that (phantom braking even without FSD likely due to lack of radar). That’s one thing I went to see if Tesla even had and I was surprised that they don’t. And I personally love buttons because then I don’t have to look away from the road. I don’t have the study on-hand but a study showed that lack of buttons made people more reckless than drunk driving. I’ll grab the link if anyone cares

Telsa's Adaptive Cruise control is better than any other vehicle I tested, or have been in yet (not even talking about FSD). It is their base line "Autopilot". The way it stays within the lane, slows and accelerates out of curves is still way ahead of others.

I am in the FSD Beta in my TM3 and one revision behind in my TMY. 90% of my driving is on FSD which my commute 26 miles each way which consists of NYC Metroplex high speed down to hours of bumper to bumper are on FSD, even on city streets. There are some things I know I need to take over for, but most of the driving, it handles.

When it comes to buttons, some people like them, some people would prefer the car function in a manner that you don't actually need the button. The only buttons I need when driving are on my steering wheel and the stalks (I'm not a huge fan of these being removed on the new TM3s). The car does everything for me, I can focus on driving, or focus while it is driving for me...

 

[JT2002TJ]

Ah sorry, I haven’t been in the EV thread. I think a lot of the big guys have caught up to a lot of these (phone key, supercharger network expanding to others in 2025, center screen tech, almost efficiency, sales and service), but there’s a good number of those I agree Tesla has a huge leap on. Fair reasons, thanks for sharing

Yeah, in that thread where I copied the list, I stated that other manufacturers have some of these, but none do them all. And when other do them, they don't do them as well...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/2023-audi-e-tron-vs-2022-tesla-model-y-comparison

Just did a quick search. Taking Audi for example, I don't think their BEV offerings beat Telsa at anything except for luxury materials. Now if your top priority in a BEV is luxury materials, Audi is a fine automaker for that. But anything else, including fun to drive factor -- I believe Tesla wins. (Maybe the Audi has a softer suspension than the Model Y...I don't know)

(And fwiw, as you alluded to, I buy the product and the company and not the CEO. This applies to a Model y as well as an iphone 15)

The Audi E-Tron is a bit dated now and that comparison shows that. The other models in the e-tron range are a lot more up to date and they may lack some the infotainment advantages Tesla have, but they do offer a good experience too. It comes down to taste at the end of the day and Tesla are very popular because they are pitched at the affordable segment and I totally understand that. The good thing is Tesla has encouraged other makers to produce competitive EV’s and it’s no longer just Tesla offering a fully equipped EV. I am seeing a lot more EV’s from the likes of BMW, VW, Skoda, Mercedes and Audi on my daily commute, whereas it used to be predominantly Tesla.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The Audi E-Tron is a bit dated now and that comparison shows that. The other models in the e-tron range are a lot more up to date and they may lack some the infotainment advantages Tesla have, but they do offer a good experience too. It comes down to taste at the end of the day and Tesla are very popular because they are pitched at the affordable segment and I totally understand that. The good thing is Tesla has encouraged other makers to produce competitive EV’s and it’s no longer just Tesla offering a fully equipped EV. I am seeing a lot more EV’s from the likes of BMW, VW, Skoda, Mercedes and Audi on my daily commute, whereas it used to be predominantly Tesla.

I think the bolded is the most important thing. Tesla has caught other manufactures with their pants down, they are now doing their best to catch up, and this is a good thing for the industry as a whole. Tesla has done what Japan did for auto production and reliability in the 80's-90's, forced a fundamental change that will be studied in the future in schools.

 

[I7guy]

In my opinion, yes. I personally love ambient lighting. Your cluster and headunit are already glowing. Instead of feeling like a flashlight is in my eyes, ambient lighting helps make those areas feel less blinding. Not sure what you’re referring to with adaptive cruise control. Tesla seems to be the only one struggling with that (phantom braking even without FSD likely due to lack of radar). That’s one thing I went to see if Tesla even had and I was surprised that they don’t. And I personally love buttons because then I don’t have to look away from the road. I don’t have the study on-hand but a study showed that lack of buttons made people more reckless than drunk driving. I’ll grab the link if anyone cares

The screen in the M3 and MY go into a nice dark mode, doesn't feel like a flashlight in the eyes at all. As far as the lack of buttons all critical driving functions can be controlled with the stalks, no real need to go into the infotainment for them. The speedometer is easily accessible with a sideways glance, better than a downward glance on the instrument cluster. The biggest issue for non-critical driving is the sound sources as the software clubs together radio, apple music, spotify, tune-in and bluetooth. I've found the voice control works very well in picking a sound source, no need to touch the infotainment screen while driving.

I've had phantom breaking happen on my late model Infiniti with all the bells and whistles and my wife's CR-V that has the collision avoidance features. With the most recent software updates on the M3/Y phantom braking on autopilot while navigate and FSD beta, while still a thing, it's much reduced. I find it hard to believe that NO other manufacturer has the issue of phantom breaking when using some type of self-driving software as I noted above.

When I picked up the car I found it took about a day to get used to the drive and a week or two to become facile with the infotainment screen. For driving, there is really no need to go into the infotainment system, even the climate control can be controlled by voice.

 

[I7guy]

I think I gave a good list in the EV thread:

Phone key
Scheduled departures by GPS location
phone key based seating, mirror, and UI settings
Cloud based settings (have 2 Teslas, or getting a loaner, settings carry over)
Tesla Maps
Tesla Center Screen
Full Self Driving (I do 90% of my driving in the NYC metroplex using FSD)
Supercharger payment (plug and go)
Mobile phone integration/notifications
Sentry Mode
Efficiency (3/Y, I have both)
Sales experience
Service experience (all through the app)

There might be a few others:
- Can bring up dashcam view while driving
- Save dashcams on horn honk
- Built-in supercharger navigation
- Pin on drive
- Infotainment entertainment options - Netflix, youtube, games, browser
- Silly things like farts, megaphone, light show
- Bluetooth controllers for games
- Amazing sound system
- Amazing headlight coverage

Also some rumors:
- Telsa app store
- Waze like functionality where cameras detect unusual road occurrences and broadcast to nearby Tesla vehicles

 

[YoitsTmac]

The screen in the M3 and MY go into a nice dark mode, doesn't feel like a flashlight in the eyes at all. As far as the lack of buttons all critical driving functions can be controlled with the stalks, no real need to go into the infotainment for them. The speedometer is easily accessible with a sideways glance, better than a downward glance on the instrument cluster. The biggest issue for non-critical driving is the sound sources as the software clubs together radio, apple music, spotify, tune-in and bluetooth. I've found the voice control works very well in picking a sound source, no need to touch the infotainment screen while driving.

I've had phantom breaking happen on my late model Infiniti with all the bells and whistles and my wife's CR-V that has the collision avoidance features. With the most recent software updates on the M3/Y phantom braking on autopilot while navigate and FSD beta, while still a thing, it's much reduced. I find it hard to believe that NO other manufacturer has the issue of phantom breaking when using some type of self-driving software as I noted above.

When I picked up the car I found it took about a day to get used to the drive and a week or two to become facile with the infotainment screen. For driving, there is really no need to go into the infotainment system, even the climate control can be controlled by voice.

Man. I hate that I’m such a unique consumer. There is nothing appealing about doing a voice command for HVAC to me. I understand that is where the market is going but ugh . The cars just aren’t being built for me anymore. I think that’s why I like the current generation X3: all those gorgeous HVAC buttons and favorite buttons for the headunit. I can click a button in a fraction of the time I could prompt a voice control and tell it what I want. I don’t mean to hate on what you’re saying or your preferences, just sad that mine don’t align with more buyers.

 

[vipergts2207]

This is pretty spot on. I think driving a Tesla and then a BMW/Audi EV back to back really emphasizes how much Tesla has to learn about creating a luxury product. I applaud them for creating and manufacturing a mainstream car at a friendly entry price point. Additionally, their drivetrains are phenomenal. However, I think they focused so hard on minimalism (and also minimizing parks and SKU’s) that, as you said, the entire car is bland and lacks personality. A Tesla feels like a car built to do the car. You need a steering wheel, so here’s a steering wheel. You need functions, so here’s a screen and our software guy will make it do the things you want it to. It feels designed to fulfill a checklist. Meanwhile Audi and BMW and other established brands try to hit the checklist but also create elements.

The Audi E-Tron models look stunning. Every time I see one I get ever so slightly excited. Like I get happy for the buyer. The BMW interiors are understated and classy. It’s so hard to describe this difference but the Tesla just feels so stale. There’s just nothing exciting about the interior or the driving experience. As for the acceleration party trick, most buyer don’t even care.

The Model 3 has to be the worst offender in Tesla's lineup in the bland looks department. It's almost offensive how lacking in character it is. To me it looks like they took a VW Beetle and said, "ok how can we change this to make it look as boring as possible." The Model S, to Tesla's credit, is decent looking. But then you put it next to a Taycan and I know which one draws my eye more.

 

[YoitsTmac]

There might be a few others:
- Can bring up dashcam view while driving
- Save dashcams on horn honk
- Built-in supercharger navigation
- Pin on drive
- Infotainment entertainment options - Netflix, youtube, games, browser
- Silly things like farts, megaphone, light show
- Bluetooth controllers for games
- Amazing sound system

Also some rumors:
- Telsa app store
- Waze like functionality where cameras detect unusual road occurrences and broadcast to nearby Tesla vehicles

How some other manufacturers butcher the navigation to chargers is just baffling to me

 

[I7guy]

This is pretty spot on. I think driving a Tesla and then a BMW/Audi EV back to back really emphasizes how much Tesla has to learn about creating a luxury product. I applaud them for creating and manufacturing a mainstream car at a friendly entry price point. Additionally, their drivetrains are phenomenal. However, I think they focused so hard on minimalism (and also minimizing parks and SKU’s) that, as you said, the entire car is bland and lacks personality. A Tesla feels like a car built to do the car. You need a steering wheel, so here’s a steering wheel. You need functions, so here’s a screen and our software guy will make it do the things you want it to. It feels designed to fulfill a checklist. Meanwhile Audi and BMW and other established brands try to hit the checklist but also create elements.

The Audi E-Tron models look stunning. Every time I see one I get ever so slightly excited. Like I get happy for the buyer. The BMW interiors are understated and classy. It’s so hard to describe this difference but the Tesla just feels so stale. There’s just nothing exciting about the interior or the driving experience. As for the acceleration party trick, most buyer don’t even care.

I don't find that Teslas are bland in the least, imo. They look futuristic. While the interior doesn't have costly, and high-end materials it is clean, functional and to me, zen like. It's a treat getting into a car without scads of buttons.

I disagree about the driving experience as to me the driving experience is excellent. The car is quick, responsive and I do care about the "acceleration party trick". With acceleration boost, a M3 will hit 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds. That beats most cars on the road in that price point and some supercars. And there are rumors about a M3/MY ludicrous version. I can only surmise Telsa is going to ratchet up the performance from the current performance model 3 and Y. But we'll have to wait and see on that.

 

[JT2002TJ]

How some other manufacturers butcher the navigation to chargers is just baffling to me

It's because they also don't have the charging network... Another big selling point for Tesla...

I couldn't image having to show up at a charger, download an app, sign up, add a payment type just to get started charging...