The Car Thread ... !

[The-Real-Deal82]

Tesla news just keeps coming. There has been speculation about safety issues for people in cars which hit/are hit by a Cybertruck. We now have our first crash.

"Photos posted on a Reddit showed the front of the Toyota completely crumpled while the Cybertruck appeared to have skid marks on its left side and damage to the back wheel well."

View attachment 2331318

Tesla Cybertruck causes ‘major damage’ to other vehicle in first reported crash

Tesla Cybertruck causes ‘major damage’ to other vehicle in first reported crash, California Highway Patrol says

www.sfchronicle.com

My first thought when I saw the Cybertruck was how it passed for pedestrian safety. Landrover had to discontinue their Defender partly for this reason yet the Cybertruck is quite aggressive with its sharp lines. Where auto manufacturers have used impact absorbing front panels to limit the injuries to pedestrians, Tesla are demonstrating super stiff stainless steel like panels to resist dents. I have a feeling they will be ordered to change this for the European markets.

Looking into this further and it is being discussed in Europe and there is a chance it won’t be legal here. German testers TUV are already asking for significant modifications.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

EV "yoyo" driving a VW iD4:

Yes, that is a decent video not only regarding the effect of weather on a battery, but also what one is loosing out on with some of the more inefficient, and cheaper platforms.

Our Polestar not only has battery pre-conditioning both by navigation (needs about 15-minute drive), but also by start before departing (so just tell it when you are aiming to leave and the battery will be optimised when the car is plugged in). Then there is also a heat pump, so no concerns or considering around running HVAC etc.

In my experience, when road tripping this actually becomes irrelevant, I mean one would set off with a charged battery and then drive exceeding 200 miles (ca. 322 kilometres) before the next charge. Therefore, no need for yo-yo, or preconditioning etc. The temperature is there regardless. But I acknowledge that Alyssa mentions that she doesn't charge at home, and often goes to EA before setting off. Personally, I would just change that behaviour, so one has got a huge time advantage. But that is a choice.

Me personally, I would not get a VAG electric car. Something they have just missed consistently in their platforms across Volkswagen and Audi that doesn't make it the great experience it can be.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Tesla news just keeps coming. There has been speculation about safety issues for people in cars which hit/are hit by a Cybertruck. We now have our first crash.

"Photos posted on a Reddit showed the front of the Toyota completely crumpled while the Cybertruck appeared to have skid marks on its left side and damage to the back wheel well."

View attachment 2331318

Tesla Cybertruck causes ‘major damage’ to other vehicle in first reported crash

Tesla Cybertruck causes ‘major damage’ to other vehicle in first reported crash, California Highway Patrol says

www.sfchronicle.com

I’m not sure I understand the issue… They are concerned about the fact that one vehicle is more rigid, has more mass and has the ability to better protect its occupants in a wreck? If this was really an issue they should be more concerned about ALL “large” vehicles on the road. Try running into a semi, or full size pickup/suv with a tin can like in this accident, it’s what’s going to happen. The CT is a full sized pickup truck, not a small Ford Ranger.

The Toyota did it’s job, it protected its occupants as best as it could in a vehicle that has limited space for crumpling up against a vehicle that weighs, what 4x it’s weight?

This is another nonstory looking to take down something different. The CT likely only has to have body panels replaced from an accident where someone who is at fault hit them. That’s the story.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m not sure I understand the issue… They are concerned about the fact that one vehicle is more rigid, has more mass and has the ability to better protect its occupants in a wreck? If this was really an issue they should be more concerned about ALL “large” vehicles on the road. Try running into a semi, or full size pickup/suv with a tin can like in this accident, it’s what’s going to happen. The CT is a full sized pickup truck, not a small Ford Ranger.

The Toyota did it’s job, it protected its occupants as best as it could in a vehicle that has limited space for crumpling up against a vehicle that weighs, what 4x it’s weight?

This is another nonstory looking to take down something different. The CT likely only has to have body panels replaced from an accident where someone who is at fault hit them. That’s the story.

I agree it’s trying to promote yet another anti EV story. However I think it won’t get on the roads in the UK or Europe in its current form.
But realistically it’s not really designed for us. Pick ups are not very common here except for farmers and workman. They are not exactly going to be priced for that customer group!

 

[JT2002TJ]

I have a feeling they will be ordered to change this for the European markets.

Or, Tesla may just say eff it and not sell it in Europe. It’s not like US full sized pickup trucks hold a major market share there.

The US is a pickup truck nation, the Ford f150 is typically the number 1 selling vehicle, then when you add all the other pickup’s, it is a LOT of US sales.

Maybe Tesla will do what they did with the S/X and 3/Y with the CT and make a smaller more efficient version, a CT Jr. for major sales once they have their “proof of concept”. I would expect this version to be more compliant with European mandates, and have a much more toned down design.

Isn’t the S Plaid only sold in LHD?

 

[JT2002TJ]

I agree it’s trying to promote yet another anti EV story. However I think it won’t get on the roads in the UK or Europe in its current form.
But realistically it’s not really designed for us. Pick ups are not very common here except for farmers and workman. They are not exactly going to be priced for that customer group!

Yup. I agree 100% with you.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I’m not sure I understand the issue… They are concerned about the fact that one vehicle is more rigid, has more mass and has the ability to better protect its occupants in a wreck? If this was really an issue they should be more concerned about ALL “large” vehicles on the road. Try running into a semi, or full size pickup/suv with a tin can like in this accident, it’s what’s going to happen. The CT is a full sized pickup truck, not a small Ford Ranger.

The Toyota did it’s job, it protected its occupants as best as it could in a vehicle that has limited space for crumpling up against a vehicle that weighs, what 4x it’s weight?

This is another nonstory looking to take down something different. The CT likely only has to have body panels replaced from an accident where someone who is at fault hit them. That’s the story.

The issue is that the cybertruck, as cool as it may be, just isn't very friendly on the road. I can't see it ever passing the standards for pedestrian safety as all road vehicles in 2024 really should be. It is something one would design/build if there weren't these 'pesky rules' placing constraints on a design that make it a save environment for all to use...

I love custom builds, but I actually also value rules and regulations. It should never be a case of survival of the fittest, we have a duty to look out for others.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The issue is that the cybertruck, as cool as it may be, just isn't very friendly on the road. I can't see it ever passing the standards for pedestrian safety as all road vehicles in 2024 really should be. It is something one would design/build if there weren't these 'pesky rules' placing constraints on a design that make it a save environment for all to use...

I love custom builds, but I actually also value rules and regulations. It should never be a case of survival of the fittest, we have a duty to look out for others.

As a pedestrian, which would you prefer to be hit by… A cybertruck, or my last 2015 Ram 1500?

In the end, full size pickup vs pedestrian is all that matters. Full size pickups are not meant to be safe for pedestrians. There is no design that is going to make it safe.

I personally think this is not a Cybertruck issue, this is a big vehicle issue.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Or, Tesla may just say eff it and not sell it in Europe. It’s not like US full sized pickup trucks hold a major market share there.

The US is a pickup truck nation, the Ford f150 is typically the number 1 selling vehicle, then when you add all the other pickup’s, it is a LOT of US sales.

Maybe Tesla will do what they did with the S/X and 3/Y with the CT and make a smaller more efficient version, a CT Jr. for major sales once they have their “proof of concept”. I would expect this version to be more compliant with European mandates, and have a much more toned down design.

Isn’t the S Plaid only sold in LHD?

I think Tesla may not sell it in Europe yes. That would be a cheaper approach for them, and yes the pickup market is more geared towards commercial, rather than domestic generally. I think the Cybertruck would perhaps appeal to Range Rover type drivers due to how impractical and large it is for our roads, but not necessarily the scale you’d see in the US.

They always have the option to release a different version of it here if they feel there could be a worthwhile market. The model S Plaid isn’t sold in the UK to my knowledge, just the model S.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

As a pedestrian, which would you prefer to be hit by… A cybertruck, or my last 2015 Ram 1500?

In the end, full size pickup vs pedestrian is all that matters. Full size pickups are not meant to be safe for pedestrians. There is no design that is going to make it safe.

I personally think this is not a Cybertruck issue, this is a big vehicle issue.

It’s worth reading up (if interested) on how vehicles are tested for pedestrian safety in Europe. Big vehicles are obviously more dangerous in this regard but have to at least give pedestrians a slight chance of surviving through intelligent design. There is design to make it safer, not sure what you are basing your statement on? The sharp frontage of the Cybertruck and its unforgiving panels is what concerns the likes of NCAP and TUV.

 

[JT2002TJ]

It’s worth reading up (if interested) on how vehicles are tested for pedestrian safety in Europe. Big vehicles are obviously more dangerous in this regard but have to at least give pedestrians a slight chance of surviving through intelligent design. There is design to make it safer, not sure what you are basing your statement on? The sharp frontage of the Cybertruck and its unforgiving panels is what concerns the likes of NCAP and TUV.

The flatish front end is no different than my Gen 4 Ram was. It was just as high up, and flat.

I think the new Cybertruck is being held to standards that other full size American pickup trucks aren’t.

It is a full sized pickup truck, not a car or the typical SUV (non-full sized).

For reference, yes there was plastic, but behind all the plastic was a rigid metal frame.

Honestly, how would getting hit by this as a pedestrian be any different than the cybertruck?

 

[I7guy]

quagmire: "How much of the no way to another Tesla is Musk antics based or actual poor experience with the car?"

Almost every month there are new complaints from Tesla owners in the news. Here are a few I remember.

wheels falling off:

Teslas Have a Minor Issue Where the Wheels Fly Off While Driving, Documents Show

Despite knowing about chronic "flaws," Tesla reportedly blamed drivers for glaring defects like collapsed suspensions and breaking axles.

futurism.com

Tesla denying warranty replacements:

In October an owner hit a puddle which ruined the battery. Tesla said

"they weren’t necessarily at fault, but that Tesla also couldn’t be expected to pay for the battery’s replacement."

That replacement costs over £17K.

https://www.extremetech.com/cars/teslas-bill-to-fix-a-rain-damaged-battery-21000

Acquaintance with 3 week old Tesla had the steering wheel completely lock up while backing out of driveway.

Steering wheel falling off:

Tesla under investigation; steering wheels falling off

Tesla is under investigation by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration after complaints steering wheels for the Model Y vehicle have fallen off.

www.foxbusiness.com

Even if some of these claims are bogus certainly is a cause for worry.

Edited: Just saw another of the innumerable articles about Tesla flaws

Analysis | Testing Tesla’s Autopilot recall, I don’t feel much safer — and neither should you

On the streets of San Francisco, Tesla’s updated driver-assistance software still took the wheel in places it wasn’t designed to handle, including blowing through stop signs.

www.washingtonpost.com

And yet the model Y is the bestselling car in the world. There is no doubt some Tesla’s have issues all cars go; remember ignition switch fires?

As far as the “recall”, it’s a software update. I already received it.

Anyway would get my Tesla again in a heartbeat.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The flatish front end is no different than my Gen 4 Ram was. It was just as high up, and flat.

I think the new Cybertruck is being held to standards that other full size American pickup trucks aren’t.

It is a full sized pickup truck, not a car or the typical SUV (non-full sized).

For reference, yes there was plastic, but behind all the plastic was a rigid metal frame.

Honestly, how would getting hit by this as a pedestrian be any different than the cybertruck?

View attachment 2331454

I’ve never seen American full sized pickups sold here unless they have been specially imported. The Cybertruck isn’t sold here and neither are those pickup trucks you mention.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I’ve never seen American full sized pickups sold here unless they have been specially imported. The Cybertruck isn’t sold here and neither are those pickup trucks you mention.

That is my point, I guess. Because it is the hot new EV, it is being criticized for not being what it never was meant to be (lol).

It is a full sized pickup truck, it should only be compared (and held to the standard of) to other full sized pickup trucks.

The CT should have the same relevance in your life as these American pickup trucks. They aren't, and weren't designed to be a part of Europe's life. Yes, there may be a few people importing the CT because it is the cool new thing, just like TMS Plaids in the UK.

When I say "you", I don't mean you, but you as a European. I mean this as a discussion, and mean no insult.

BTW, there were (including mine, which I no longer have) 5 Ram pickups on my block of 30 houses, and I’m in a suburb of NYC, when I lived in TX, where I lived there were more houses with full sized pickup trucks than those without.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That is my point, I guess. Because it is the hot new EV, it is being criticized for not being what it never was meant to be (lol).

It is a full sized pickup truck, it should only be compared (and held to the standard of) to other full sized pickup trucks.

The CT should have the same relevance in your life as these American pickup trucks. They aren't, and weren't designed to be a part of Europe's life. Yes, there may be a few people importing the CT because it is the cool new thing, just like TMS Plaids in the UK.

When I say "you", I don't mean you, but you as a European. I mean this as a discussion, and mean no insult.

BTW, there were (including mine, which I no longer have) 5 Ram pickups on my block of 30 houses, and I’m in a suburb of NYC, when I lived in TX, where I lived there were more houses with full sized pickup trucks than those without.

The pickups I see here in the UK are generally much smaller. Always 2 doors. Usually old and beat up. Usually driven by a farmer.
Transit vans and other small vans are probably far more common. Typically used by tradespeople or delivery people. Difficult to do that in a pick up. You’d get your gear stolen!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

That is my point, I guess. Because it is the hot new EV, it is being criticized for not being what it never was meant to be (lol).

It is a full sized pickup truck, it should only be compared (and held to the standard of) to other full sized pickup trucks.

The CT should have the same relevance in your life as these American pickup trucks. They aren't, and weren't designed to be a part of Europe's life. Yes, there may be a few people importing the CT because it is the cool new thing, just like TMS Plaids in the UK.

When I say "you", I don't mean you, but you as a European. I mean this as a discussion, and mean no insult.

BTW, there were (including mine, which I no longer have) 5 Ram pickups on my block of 30 houses, and I’m in a suburb of NYC, when I lived in TX, where I lived there were more houses with full sized pickup trucks than those without.

It’s being discussed because it’s the latest Tesla and it’s a global brand. The Cybertruck is an interesting concept and there will be a certain element of demand in Europe (niche end) but if it’s never been designed to be sold outside of America, that’s fine too. Discussion has arisen because it’s such an angular design and it’s an interesting subject. You’re the first person I’ve encountered who has claimed this car is only for Americans and not to worry about it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The pickups I see here in the UK are generally much smaller. Always 2 doors. Usually old and beat up. Usually driven by a farmer.
Transit vans and other small vans are probably far more common. Typically used by tradespeople or delivery people. Difficult to do that in a pick up. You’d get your gear stolen!

Yeah. A lot of people have enclosed trailers. Their pickup trucks are their work/personal vehicles. When they go to a job site, they leave their trailer for the day at the site. They can make shop runs and other duties, while their workers have everything they need in the trailer.

It allows the contractor the ability to have a vehicle that serves as job and business. Here in the NY area, 3/4 ton pickups (1500 and f150 are a 1/2 ton) or box vans without windows are considered commercial and are restricted to certain roads.

I liked having a pickup, but do not do commercial work, I do tow things and have my utility trailer. I will eventually get a CT.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Plenty of four door pickups in the UK. They attract a big tax advantage, often come with nice luxury features as well. And then there are the more basic four door pickups typically for farm and construction use. Nice options by Mercedes, VW, Ford and Nissan. An Toyota and Mitsubishi for farmers

On continental Europe there are plenty of the full sized US pickup trucks. Again very populair by business owners due to tax advantages. But the way the bumpers are, the lack of sharp edges, etc make them regulations compliant. The cyber truck will have to change if it wants to be sale.

Also TMS/X plaid is on sale. Why would it not be?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The pickups I see here in the UK are generally much smaller. Always 2 doors. Usually old and beat up. Usually driven by a farmer.
Transit vans and other small vans are probably far more common. Typically used by tradespeople or delivery people. Difficult to do that in a pick up. You’d get your gear stolen!

There are the larger Toyota Hilux, Nissan Navara type pickups but agree they are generally for commercial use. I do know people who have bought them and had them short term until the novelty wears off. Strangely they have poor safety ratings for passengers and cost a fortune in tax and tyres so I can see why they aren’t appealing to families.

 

[JT2002TJ]

It’s being discussed because it’s the latest Tesla and it’s a global brand. The Cybertruck is an interesting concept and there will be a certain element of demand in Europe (niche end) but if it’s never been designed to be sold outside of America, that’s fine too. Discussion has arisen because it’s such an angular design and it’s an interesting subject. You’re the first person I’ve encountered who has claimed this car is only for Americans and not to worry about it.

I mean, it is a full size pickup truck…. If the market doesn’t have a need for it, there’s no reason to worry about it. It’s like criticizing a full size pickup truck for not fitting in a compact parking spot. That’s not its purpose.

It’s not only for Americans, but it is designed FOR Americans. America is a pickup truck nation. Every year the best selling vehicle (by far) is the Ford f150 1/2 ton pickup truck. I don’t remember the numbers offhand, but at one point it was almost 2x every other vehicle.

I’m all for discussing the design and interesting aspects of vehicle. I just don’t see the point in criticizing something for not fitting a mold it wasn’t designed for.

I know it seems like I am singling you out. That is not my goal. Just having a discussion.

I just think it is another part of the EV hate (I know you don’t), it’s grasping at straws to say the CT is bad, and ICE is good. Pedestrian safety is the same problem for all other full size pickup trucks (EV or ICE). It isn’t a huge issue in the US, because we have way more cars than people. We aren’t a walking nation.

A pickup truck can be successful here, simply by taking a percentage of ford f150’s sales numbers. It really is that big here.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I mean, it is a full size pickup truck…. If the market doesn’t have a need for it, there’s no reason to worry about it. It’s like criticizing a full size pickup truck for not fitting in a compact parking spot. That’s not its purpose.

It’s not only for Americans, but it is designed FOR Americans. America is a pickup truck nation. Every year the best selling vehicle (by far) is the Ford f150 1/2 ton pickup truck. I don’t remember the numbers offhand, but at one point it was almost 2x every other vehicle.

I’m all for discussing the design and interesting aspects of vehicle. I just don’t see the point in criticizing something for not fitting a mold it wasn’t designed for.

I know it seems like I am singling you out. That is not my goal. Just having a discussion.

I just think it is another part of the EV hate (I know you don’t), it’s grasping at straws to say the CT is bad, and ICE is good. Pedestrian safety is the same problem for all other full size pickup trucks (EV or ICE). It isn’t a huge issue in the US, because we have way more cars than people. We aren’t a walking nation.

A pickup truck can be successful here, simply by taking a percentage of ford f150’s sales numbers. It really is that big here.

I wasn’t criticising the Cybertruck, but if trying to discuss where it might fit in where I live is not of interest to non-Europeans, I won’t bother then. I actually think it’s a cool vehicle even if I’d never buy one. It might end up being totally irrelevant then if it’s never going to be sold in Europe so for the sake of others here, i’ll forget about it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Plenty of four door pickups in the UK. They attract a big tax advantage, often come with nice luxury features as well. And then there are the more basic four door pickups typically for farm and construction use. Nice options by Mercedes, VW, Ford and Nissan. An Toyota and Mitsubishi for farmers

On continental Europe there are plenty of the full sized US pickup trucks. Again very populair by business owners due to tax advantages. But the way the bumpers are, the lack of sharp edges, etc make them regulations compliant. The cyber truck will have to change if it wants to be sale.

Also TMS/X plaid is on sale. Why would it not be?

Plaids are only LHD… So they aren’t “designed“ for the UK. There are RHD S/X, just not Plaids (from my understanding). So if there were speed regulations in the UK that prevented the sale of plaids, it would be irrelevant to Tesla.

I also, though I saw somewhere that Tesla was canceling orders for all RHD S/X. Meaning they were only going to be LHD sales...

Tesla Model S Plaid Left-Hand Drive: Worth Buying In The UK?

Despite customer complaints, the Model S Plaid has now arrived in the UK in left-hand-drive-only form. Is its immense performance worth the compromise?

www.forbes.com

 

[JT2002TJ]

I wasn’t criticising the Cybertruck, but if trying to discuss where it might fit in where I live is not of interest to non-Europeans, I won’t bother then. I actually think it’s a cool vehicle even if I’d never buy one. It might end up being totally irrelevant then if it’s never going to be sold in Europe so for the sake of others here, i’ll forget about it.

Sorry. It’s hard to get tone across via text. I didn’t mean it that way. Just pointing out the alternative to the points brought up with the Cybertruck accident. It is being criticized for not crumpling enough when someone hit it, it’s being criticized for lack of pedestrian safety. I don’t mean you. These are points I never hear brought up when discussing ICE full sized trucks, yet the same issues apply.

I do enjoy this conversation, sorry if it came across as an attack.

 

[Herdfan]

It’s not only for Americans, but it is designed FOR Americans. America is a pickup truck nation. Every year the best selling vehicle (by far) is the Ford f150 1/2 ton pickup truck. I don’t remember the numbers offhand, but at one point it was almost 2x every other vehicle.

And usually right behind it are the Chevy & Dodge version of the same truck. If you add the GMC (same as the Chevy with different badges), then GM would be #1.

Basically these 3 trucks sell around 1.5M units per year. So yes, we are a truck nation. My daily driver is a '21 SuperDuty (F-250 6.7L Diesel).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Plaids are only LHD… So they aren’t “designed“ for the UK. There are RHD S/X, just not Plaids (from my understanding). So if there were speed regulations in the UK that prevented the sale of plaids, it would be irrelevant to Tesla.

I also, though I saw somewhere that Tesla was canceling orders for all RHD S/X. Meaning they were only going to be LHD sales...

Tesla Model S Plaid Left-Hand Drive: Worth Buying In The UK?

Despite customer complaints, the Model S Plaid has now arrived in the UK in left-hand-drive-only form. Is its immense performance worth the compromise?

www.forbes.com

They are only sold in LHD here which is probably why very few buy them. I’ve driven a LHD car here before and it’s a very frustrating experience due to reduced visibility and the difficulty in overtaking. I’d never spend £100K on a car that wasn’t RHD and can’t really see the point in the Plaid being offered here to be honest. I’d just stick to mainland Europe where they apply and cost a lot more.