The Car Thread ... !

[vipergts2207]

"I'm currently content with my car, but I'm considering transitioning it to autocross/track duty in a few years. I'm contemplating the idea of getting an S5 convertible as my daily driver. However, there's still a lingering desire for a powerful big V8.

From my perspective convertibles will continue to exist. Big V8s perhaps not so much. Certainly the ones affordable to mere mortals are disappearing. I bought my car when I did because it was now or never, at least if I wanted to buy new with my own specs.

I believe there are just two cars with V8s priced under six figures still being made in 2024:

Chevy Corvette
Ford Mustang

Is there anything else? I really can't think of anything. BMW's, Mercedes', and Audi's few remaining V8s are well into six figures.

Edit: The Lexus LC 500 just barely squeaks by, starting at $99k. Conveniently also available as a convertible, as are the Corvette and Mustang.

Edit 2: Add the CT5-V Blackwing to the list.

 

[Huntn]

Last March I traded in my constantly broken 2012 Fiat 500 for a 2020 MiniCooper S. It seems to be a nice sporty car, but when we bought it. It had 20k miles on it, now it has 23k and I just got a "brake service- replace pads" message. This turned out to be the most expensive brake job I've ever had... $900 and that was just for the front brakes!

As far as price I guess this is in the same neighborhood as BMW luxury with luxury repairs. Is this the norm for this vehicle?

BTW that price included a brake flush $170. When I asked, I was told that the specs call for a brake flush every 3 years or every brake job, because there is a $2k module that if it gets gummed up with any contaminants in the brake fluid must be changed.

Ok, so brakes in 20K? The guy at my service place says the previous owner must have been a hard braker. The rear brakes look almost new. I find it interesting that I've got a 2013 Toyota Highlander with 73k miles on them and the original brake pads on it...

The guy at the dealer says "two different vehicles, BMW, Mini-Cooper performance car". Yeah but if you don't drive it in a performance way... 🤠

 

[JT2002TJ]

Last March I traded in my constantly broken 2012 Fiat 500 for a 2020 MiniCooper S. It seems to be a nice sporty car, but when we bought it. It had 20k miles on it, now it has 23k and I just got a "brake service- replace pads" message. This turned out to be the most expensive brake job I've ever had... $900 and that was just for the front brakes!

As far as price I guess this is in the same neighborhood as BMW luxury with luxury repairs. Is this the norm for this vehicle?

BTW that price included a brake flush $170. When I asked, I was told that the specs call for a brake flush every 3 years or every brake job, because there is a $2k module that if it gets gummed up with any contaminants in the brake fluid must be changed.

Ok, so brakes in 20K? The guy at my service place says the previous owner must have been a hard braker. The rear brakes look almost new. I find it interesting that I've got a 2013 Toyota Highlander with 73k miles on them and the original brake pads on it...

The guy at the dealer says "two different vehicles, BMW, Mini-Cooper performance car". Yeah but if you don't drive it in a performance way... 🤠

That is about right for a rotor and disc job on the front of a vehicle especially if you include a brake fluid flush. That's what it costs, unless you do it yourself...

Flushes should be done every 2-3 years for all vehicles, you can get by longer but brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the air. So if you want your brake system to last forever, regardless of the vehicle, it should be flushed every 2-3 years. I do it every time I do my brakes. Now that I own 2 teslas, I have them do it, regardless of brake jobs.

It does seem to be a bit early, but I don't know mini's and what is usual for brake mileage.

 

[jz0309]

Last March I traded in my constantly broken 2012 Fiat 500 for a 2020 MiniCooper S. It seems to be a nice sporty car, but when we bought it. It had 20k miles on it, now it has 23k and I just got a "brake service- replace pads" message. This turned out to be the most expensive brake job I've ever had... $900 and that was just for the front brakes!

As far as price I guess this is in the same neighborhood as BMW luxury with luxury repairs. Is this the norm for this vehicle?

BTW that price included a brake flush $170. When I asked, I was told that the specs call for a brake flush every 3 years or every brake job, because there is a $2k module that if it gets gummed up with any contaminants in the brake fluid must be changed.

Ok, so brakes in 20K? The guy at my service place says the previous owner must have been a hard braker. The rear brakes look almost new. I find it interesting that I've got a 2013 Toyota Highlander with 73k miles on them and the original brake pads on it...

The guy at the dealer says "two different vehicles, BMW, Mini-Cooper performance car". Yeah but if you don't drive it in a performance way... 🤠

When I had BMWs, 20k miles was tops before brake pads needed to be replaced…
Back then I leased them so it did t cost me, but maintenance cost was one reason to not keep a bimmer beyond 3 years

Edit: when I say didn’t cost me I mean I did not have to pay for the service but that cost is obviously baked into the purch/lease cost

 

[Apple fanboy]

Last March I traded in my constantly broken 2012 Fiat 500 for a 2020 MiniCooper S. It seems to be a nice sporty car, but when we bought it. It had 20k miles on it, now it has 23k and I just got a "brake service- replace pads" message. This turned out to be the most expensive brake job I've ever had... $900 and that was just for the front brakes!

As far as price I guess this is in the same neighborhood as BMW luxury with luxury repairs. Is this the norm for this vehicle?

BTW that price included a brake flush $170. When I asked, I was told that the specs call for a brake flush every 3 years or every brake job, because there is a $2k module that if it gets gummed up with any contaminants in the brake fluid must be changed.

Ok, so brakes in 20K? The guy at my service place says the previous owner must have been a hard braker. The rear brakes look almost new. I find it interesting that I've got a 2013 Toyota Highlander with 73k miles on them and the original brake pads on it...

The guy at the dealer says "two different vehicles, BMW, Mini-Cooper performance car". Yeah but if you don't drive it in a performance way... 🤠

EV’s don’t use the brakes too much so hopefully my BMW i3 goes years before the pads need replacing. You just need to make sure you give them a good usage every once in a while.

 

[roland.g]

This is pretty spot on. I think driving a Tesla and then a BMW/Audi EV back to back really emphasizes how much Tesla has to learn about creating a luxury product. I applaud them for creating and manufacturing a mainstream car at a friendly entry price point. Additionally, their drivetrains are phenomenal. However, I think they focused so hard on minimalism (and also minimizing parks and SKU’s) that, as you said, the entire car is bland and lacks personality. A Tesla feels like a car built to do the car. You need a steering wheel, so here’s a steering wheel. You need functions, so here’s a screen and our software guy will make it do the things you want it to. It feels designed to fulfill a checklist. Meanwhile Audi and BMW and other established brands try to hit the checklist but also create elements.

The Audi E-Tron models look stunning. Every time I see one I get ever so slightly excited. Like I get happy for the buyer. The BMW interiors are understated and classy. It’s so hard to describe this difference but the Tesla just feels so stale. There’s just nothing exciting about the interior or the driving experience. As for the acceleration party trick, most buyer don’t even care.

I don't find that Teslas are bland in the least, imo. They look futuristic. While the interior doesn't have costly, and high-end materials it is clean, functional and to me, zen like. It's a treat getting into a car without scads of buttons.

I disagree about the driving experience as to me the driving experience is excellent. The car is quick, responsive and I do care about the "acceleration party trick". With acceleration boost, a M3 will hit 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds. That beats most cars on the road in that price point and some supercars. And there are rumors about a M3/MY ludicrous version. I can only surmise Telsa is going to ratchet up the performance from the current performance model 3 and Y. But we'll have to wait and see on that.

Marques Brownlee has a Tesla but drove a Taycan for 2 weeks and did a review. His comments were about how much better the fit and finish were in the Porsche over the Tesla. Everyone knows the Teslas are sold as luxury EVs, especially the S and X, and yet, there is so much information out there about how their fit and finish is subpar.

My wife said absolutely not to driving a Tesla, and I'm not a big fan of the no CarPlay from them. A friend bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2020 and told me it was the best car he ever owned. For the last year all he has said is no way he'd buy another Tesla. He's looking at a Rivian. Not sure the verdict is in on them yet.

We bought my wife an Audi e-tron GT this year. There are some downsides, like less info / data than I'd like. Audi missed the mark on some aspects of their screen, menus, etc. But it is a very nice car.

 

[quagmire]

How much of the no way to another Tesla is Musk antics based or actual poor experience with the car?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Marques Brownlee has a Tesla but drove a Taycan for 2 weeks and did a review. His comments were about how much better the fit and finish were in the Porsche over the Tesla. Everyone knows the Teslas are sold as luxury EVs, especially the S and X, and yet, there is so much information out there about how their fit and finish is subpar.

My wife said absolutely not to driving a Tesla, and I'm not a big fan of the no CarPlay from them. A friend bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2020 and told me it was the best car he ever owned. For the last year all he has said is no way he'd buy another Tesla. He's looking at a Rivian. Not sure the verdict is in on them yet.

We bought my wife an Audi e-tron GT this year. There are some downsides, like less info / data than I'd like. Audi missed the mark on some aspects of their screen, menus, etc. But it is a very nice car.

If I was buying a Tesla it would have to be a 3 or Y as the price of the S and X are indeed far too high for the level of quality and finish IMO. A friend of ours has just had a Taycan and it’s another level in this regard compared with Tesla. The Audi e-tron GT is the same car as a Taycan too and personally I’d opt for the Audi as it is more equipped for the price. Looking through my friends, and it lacks so many features like heads up display that can be added on both, but much cheaper on the Audi. We drive a Q4 e-tron and the interior is very nice I have to say. The infotainment system could be improved and that is one of my few gripes about it.

 

[I7guy]

Marques Brownlee has a Tesla but drove a Taycan for 2 weeks and did a review. His comments were about how much better the fit and finish were in the Porsche over the Tesla. Everyone knows the Teslas are sold as luxury EVs, especially the S and X, and yet, there is so much information out there about how their fit and finish is subpar.

My wife said absolutely not to driving a Tesla, and I'm not a big fan of the no CarPlay from them. A friend bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2020 and told me it was the best car he ever owned. For the last year all he has said is no way he'd buy another Tesla. He's looking at a Rivian. Not sure the verdict is in on them yet.

We bought my wife an Audi e-tron GT this year. There are some downsides, like less info / data than I'd like. Audi missed the mark on some aspects of their screen, menus, etc. But it is a very nice car.

Tesla is not trying to be Porsche, Audi or BMW or Mercedes. While Tesla may market itself as a luxury brand the luxury of the German brands are hard to beat.

In the US that I am aware, none of the above qualify for the federal tax credit and for some that could be a dealbreaker.

I like driving my Tesla, however, we’ll see how I feel three years into my ownership. There’s a YouTuber McMaster that has a channel and rags on his Taycan and state of the EV industry in the UK. Just another point of view.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I have heard of a lot of problems with public charging with the Taycan.

In Europe, I get the complaints about Tesla vs. German luxury brands. Here in the US, a Plaid is <$90k USD, Taycans start at $90k. So, in reality, the S/X are NOT in the same class (price wise) as the Porsche, yet it is compared to it. The same goes with MB’s EVs. Here you will not find EVs with the complete package in the same price point as Tesla. At least today…

 

[sunapple]

Marques Brownlee has a Tesla but drove a Taycan for 2 weeks and did a review. His comments were about how much better the fit and finish were in the Porsche over the Tesla. Everyone knows the Teslas are sold as luxury EVs, especially the S and X, and yet, there is so much information out there about how their fit and finish is subpar.

My wife said absolutely not to driving a Tesla, and I'm not a big fan of the no CarPlay from them. A friend bought a Tesla Model 3 in 2020 and told me it was the best car he ever owned. For the last year all he has said is no way he'd buy another Tesla. He's looking at a Rivian. Not sure the verdict is in on them yet.

We bought my wife an Audi e-tron GT this year. There are some downsides, like less info / data than I'd like. Audi missed the mark on some aspects of their screen, menus, etc. But it is a very nice car.

Shockingly the Porsche Taycan scored the title of least reliable EV in a recent What Car? survey:

The Porsche Taycan is one of the fastest electric cars you can buy, but it’s not one of the most reliable. Of the cars in our survey, a hefty 46% went wrong, with owners citing the air-con and infotainment system as the main trouble spots. All remedial work was done for free, but two-thirds of the stricken cars were out of action for more than a week.

https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-most-reliable-electric-cars/n26158

With a reliability rating of 66.5% of the Taycan there is a stark contrast to the Tesla Model 3 which scored 93.9% or 8th place in most reliable. Still I'd much rather own the Taycan over any Tesla.

 

[BotchQue]

Marty's ride:

 

[MBAir2010]

great photo!

in 1981 we sang "🎵She has Marty Feldman Eyes :🎶" instead.

 

[roland.g]

Shockingly the Porsche Taycan scored the title of least reliable EV in a recent What Car? survey:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/reliability-survey-most-reliable-electric-cars/n26158

With a reliability rating of 66.5% of the Taycan there is a stark contrast to the Tesla Model 3 which scored 93.9% or 8th place in most reliable. Still I'd much rather own the Taycan over any Tesla.

It's almost like Tesla should have developed the powertrain and the charging network and then sold the powertrain to all the traditional auto manufacturers INSTEAD of making their own vehicles. Where would we be today if that was the case.

 

[YoitsTmac]

Tesla is not trying to be Porsche, Audi or BMW or Mercedes. While Tesla may market itself as a luxury brand the luxury of the German brands are hard to beat.

Tesla is branding themselves as a “cool electric car brand disrupting the car market.” They just happen to be cross shopped with luxury brands because they have great recognition for their powertrains. Although batteries failing under 50k miles due to poor seals seems to be becoming a larger issue.

I like how this one person put it: “Tesla is the Apple Watch Ultra of cars. No one will confuse it for a Rolex or Richard Mule, but that’s not why you bought an Apple Watch, you bought it for the tech stack and conveniences it affords you.

No one is sitting in a Mercedes E class and thinking, ‘yeah, this is basically a Tesla.’”

 

[YoitsTmac]

It's almost like Tesla should have developed the powertrain and the charging network and then sold the powertrain to all the traditional auto manufacturers INSTEAD of making their own vehicles. Where would we be today if that was the case.

Tesla going mainstream I assume gave them the money to continue evolving their powertrain technology to be really good. I have a friend who’s an engineer at Tesla and I think it’s even public information that they have very wide margins. For better or worse, they do things differently and their margin at scale im told is much higher than most in the industry.

Things like minimal interior colors, and minimal parts help. Look at a Tesla door panel and then a BMW X3 door panel. It’s why Tesla can be so competitive on price lately as well.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It's almost like Tesla should have developed the powertrain and the charging network and then sold the powertrain to all the traditional auto manufacturers INSTEAD of making their own vehicles. Where would we be today if that was the case.

As much as I’d wished that was the way it had gone, I can understand why they didn’t. They have come from nowhere to become one of the biggest car manufacturers in the world. I can only see that number going up at the expense of other traditional brands.

 

[sunapple]

It's almost like Tesla should have developed the powertrain and the charging network and then sold the powertrain to all the traditional auto manufacturers INSTEAD of making their own vehicles. Where would we be today if that was the case.

That would probably have improved the speed of the transition to electric. I am sure though other car brands / groups will eventually reap the benefits of having developed their own technology (software, powertrain, batteries, etc). Charging network is being shared these days, that's great.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Tesla is branding themselves as a “cool electric car brand disrupting the car market.” They just happen to be cross shopped with luxury brands because they have great recognition for their powertrains. Although batteries failing under 50k miles due to poor seals seems to be becoming a larger issue.

I like how this one person put it: “Tesla is the Apple Watch Ultra of cars. No one will confuse it for a Rolex or Richard Mule, but that’s not why you bought an Apple Watch, you bought it for the tech stack and conveniences it affords you.

No one is sitting in a Mercedes E class and thinking, ‘yeah, this is basically a Tesla.’”

They aren’t branding themselves as anything. They don’t do direct marketing by themselves.

Tesla was first to market, but let’s be realistic they are at the Toyota end of the market hence they compete on price nowadays.

Outside of the US they don’t even have a network advance. As good as any car on the market has sufficient range for the majority of people for 95% of average daily journeys. Hence the exclusivity doesn’t make sense for them anymore.

They can compete on price, but as we on MacRumors know; competing on price doesn’t mean you get the highly profitable customers.

 

[Chuckeee]

Marty's ride:

View attachment 2330383

Much easier to parallel park

 

[I7guy]

Tesla is branding themselves as a “cool electric car brand disrupting the car market.” They just happen to be cross shopped with luxury brands because they have great recognition for their powertrains. Although batteries failing under 50k miles due to poor seals seems to be becoming a larger issue.

I like how this one person put it: “Tesla is the Apple Watch Ultra of cars. No one will confuse it for a Rolex or Richard Mule, but that’s not why you bought an Apple Watch, you bought it for the tech stack and conveniences it affords you.

No one is sitting in a Mercedes E class and thinking, ‘yeah, this is basically a Tesla.’”

I don't know about batteries failing under 50K miles for Teslas. I googled it and nothing substantial really came up.

The Taycan is a halo vehicle. It will be a niche seller and it won't do anything to further the mass adoption of EV vehicles. But it's a Porsche.

I say, "but it's a Tesla" and that association brings certain things to mind as well. My mindset for an EV is different than ICE and I'm enjoying the heck out of mine.

 

[I7guy]

Tesla going mainstream I assume gave them the money to continue evolving their powertrain technology to be really good. I have a friend who’s an engineer at Tesla and I think it’s even public information that they have very wide margins. For better or worse, they do things differently and their margin at scale im told is much higher than most in the industry.

Things like minimal interior colors, and minimal parts help. Look at a Tesla door panel and then a BMW X3 door panel. It’s why Tesla can be so competitive on price lately as well.

As I said above, Tesla is not trying to be BMW, Audi or even Cadillac. A Cadillac Escalade selling at $150K is not going to drive the mass market of EVs. Tesla is competing at price and are doing a great job. The Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world with many Teslas being eligible for federal and state incentives.

The base Taycan has a range of 230 or so miles; probably related to Porsches' engineering to not over-weigh the car with a big battery. Road tripping won't be any fun.

 

[vipergts2207]

As I said above, Tesla is not trying to be BMW, Audi or even Cadillac. A Cadillac Escalade selling at $150K is not going to drive the mass market of EVs. Tesla is competing at price and are doing a great job. The Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world with many Teslas being eligible for federal and state incentives.

The base Taycan has a range of 230 or so miles; probably related to Porsches' engineering to not over-weigh the car with a big battery. Road tripping won't be any fun.

Road tripping is best left to ICE vehicles anyway. I certainly wouldn’t be looking forward to doing so in an EV, having to constantly consider my range and worrying about where my next stop will be and how long I may have to be there. As a daily commuter I bet an EV is fantastic though. I’d like one as a daily eventually, but I’ll be paying off the summer/fun ICE car for a while and there’s no room in the budget for another car payment.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Road tripping is best left to ICE vehicles anyway. I certainly wouldn’t be looking forward to doing so in an EV, having to constantly consider my range and worrying about where my next stop will be and how long I may have to be there. As a daily commuter I bet an EV is fantastic though. I’d like one as a daily eventually, but I’ll be paying off the summer/fun ICE car for a while and there’s no room in the budget for another car payment.

I have no concern whatsoever doing a road trip. When I need a charge I just hit that find me a charger button, and within the time it takes me to visit the WC and grab a drink the car is ready for the next leg.

A little 4,000 Km road trip, all EV. No problem whatsoever.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

When I had BMWs, 20k miles was tops before brake pads needed to be replaced…
Back then I leased them so it did t cost me, but maintenance cost was one reason to not keep a bimmer beyond 3 years

Edit: when I say didn’t cost me I mean I did not have to pay for the service but that cost is obviously baked into the purch/lease cost

My wife has driven the 2010 RAV4 nearly 78,000 miles, and this year I had a brake-job performed by a mechanic. For new rotors and four sets of pads cost somewhere around $700.00 USB, and labor around $400.00. My 2012 Corolla has been driven nearly 69,000 miles and so far the brake pads in front and the shoes in the rear are in nearly perfect shape.